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    Posted: 07/24/2020 at 7:52pm
Saw this video recently and it was very interesting. Basically you push first in a very quick movement and then followthrough as if you were doing a flick. It's almost as if you were doing a hook serve movement during the service receive. So the outgoing ball is a heavy sideunderspin ball but the opponent seeing the fake followthrough might think it's a sidetopspin flick and just dump it into the net. Of course combining it with an actual flick with the same followthrough would confuse the opponent even more...

This can be used on both FH and BH (you could do a sideunderspin chiquita in this manner)

Skip to the end to watch the demonstration....



Edited by blahness - 07/24/2020 at 8:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2020 at 9:10pm
i saw from a mile away that it was a push.  Just look at the contact point
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2020 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by liulin04 liulin04 wrote:

i saw from a mile away that it was a push.  Just look at the contact point

Lmao yeah it's kinda obvious if you were paying attention LOL but I guess in a match situation at 10-9 this might just win the game hahaha coz the opponent might be like "wtf is this nonsense" 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2020 at 10:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chairman Meow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2020 at 12:04am
I've seen this too. Tricks like that are most effective when they're used maybe once a game, especially at high stress points (down by one late in the game, deuce, etc). I have a few serves that look totally different but all produce the same garbage, light topspin/sidespin serve that often results in me getting a free point or two. But if I used it every 4 points, it would get killed every time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wilkinru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2020 at 1:18am
I really like this. The examples should probably just be looped as they're pretty long - but this might be interesting when pushing short or half long. Some of the examples there for sure would trick me if not used constantly in a match.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2020 at 3:06pm
Same here, will definitely be trying this out. If it doesn't win a point it'll least get a laugh. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2020 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Same here, will definitely be trying this out. If it doesn't win a point it'll least get a laugh. 

Nothing feels better than successfully bamboozling your opponent Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2020 at 11:29pm
It's a nice trick to get a point from somebody we don't like and the stare that follows is the warm reward. I'll definitely try, it's the typical shot fun to learn on a robot while being confined.

I wonder if we could ever develop a useful reverse pendulum stroke on those fh balls. we then have more room to mask what spin we put on the ball with the same "topspin" follow through but that's another topic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2020 at 7:58am
Fun stroke and nice idea. Bit of a gimick but if it comes off 100% could be a point winning or even matching winning stroke. If it doesn't come off it's the other way of course and the players looks a bit silly trying a high risk stroke. but no guts no glory.  I remember Waldner having a similar stroke stroke in his kitbag.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2020 at 9:21am
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

It's a nice trick to get a point from somebody we don't like and the stare that follows is the warm reward. I'll definitely try, it's the typical shot fun to learn on a robot while being confined.

I wonder if we could ever develop a useful reverse pendulum stroke on those fh balls. we then have more room to mask what spin we put on the ball with the same "topspin" follow through but that's another topic.

I think the normal flick can be modified a bit to look like that with the topspin followthrough without having to resort to the reverse pendulum idea. I've actually had the idea to do a reverse pendulum "push" that in actual fact has sidetopspin on it but that's another topic, I haven't really tried it out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2020 at 10:43am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

It's a nice trick to get a point from somebody we don't like and the stare that follows is the warm reward. I'll definitely try, it's the typical shot fun to learn on a robot while being confined.

I wonder if we could ever develop a useful reverse pendulum stroke on those fh balls. we then have more room to mask what spin we put on the ball with the same "topspin" follow through but that's another topic.

I think the normal flick can be modified a bit to look like that with the topspin followthrough without having to resort to the reverse pendulum idea. I've actually had the idea to do a reverse pendulum "push" that in actual fact has sidetopspin on it but that's another topic, I haven't really tried it out.
 

That reverse sidetop "push" is pretty common. Normally use it against a chopper short to bring them in to a shorter ball. that way if they are off to ball kicks and tends to stand up ready for a stronger ball or smash. It's also good when someone drops a short serve back to add a change up. you have to have pretty good touch to make it work or it becomes maybe a bit to obvious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2020 at 1:03pm
Had a short hit on a friend's robot today and tried a couple of these... not as easy as I'd imagined, would definitely require a fair bit of practice for me to get this looking even half decent. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2020 at 1:51pm
That is/was a great player. Played some years ago in Portugal at Sporting Clube de Portugal. One of the best players at the time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2020 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

It's a nice trick to get a point from somebody we don't like and the stare that follows is the warm reward. I'll definitely try, it's the typical shot fun to learn on a robot while being confined.

I wonder if we could ever develop a useful reverse pendulum stroke on those fh balls. we then have more room to mask what spin we put on the ball with the same "topspin" follow through but that's another topic.

I think the normal flick can be modified a bit to look like that with the topspin followthrough without having to resort to the reverse pendulum idea. I've actually had the idea to do a reverse pendulum "push" that in actual fact has sidetopspin on it but that's another topic, I haven't really tried it out.
 

That reverse sidetop "push" is pretty common. Normally use it against a chopper short to bring them in to a shorter ball. that way if they are off to ball kicks and tends to stand up ready for a stronger ball or smash. It's also good when someone drops a short serve back to add a change up. you have to have pretty good touch to make it work or it becomes maybe a bit to obvious.


Nah, it's not difficult. It's one of those strokes that anyone can learn given 3x 10min sessions on a robot or with a coach. Very useful in pushing rallies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2020 at 4:32am
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

It's a nice trick to get a point from somebody we don't like and the stare that follows is the warm reward. I'll definitely try, it's the typical shot fun to learn on a robot while being confined.

I wonder if we could ever develop a useful reverse pendulum stroke on those fh balls. we then have more room to mask what spin we put on the ball with the same "topspin" follow through but that's another topic.

I think the normal flick can be modified a bit to look like that with the topspin followthrough without having to resort to the reverse pendulum idea. I've actually had the idea to do a reverse pendulum "push" that in actual fact has sidetopspin on it but that's another topic, I haven't really tried it out.
 

That reverse sidetop "push" is pretty common. Normally use it against a chopper short to bring them in to a shorter ball. that way if they are off to ball kicks and tends to stand up ready for a stronger ball or smash. It's also good when someone drops a short serve back to add a change up. you have to have pretty good touch to make it work or it becomes maybe a bit to obvious.


Nah, it's not difficult. It's one of those strokes that anyone can learn given 3x 10min sessions on a robot or with a coach. Very useful in pushing rallies.

Definitely not difficult to learn, agree with you. It doesn't seem to be used as much as some years ago from what I've seen. Being on the circuit watching alot of matches do you still see alot of it or other variations btw?. I was referring to getting it short and tight off a return which does need good touch off the bat or it sticks up. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2020 at 5:02am
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

It's a nice trick to get a point from somebody we don't like and the stare that follows is the warm reward. I'll definitely try, it's the typical shot fun to learn on a robot while being confined.

I wonder if we could ever develop a useful reverse pendulum stroke on those fh balls. we then have more room to mask what spin we put on the ball with the same "topspin" follow through but that's another topic.

I think the normal flick can be modified a bit to look like that with the topspin followthrough without having to resort to the reverse pendulum idea. I've actually had the idea to do a reverse pendulum "push" that in actual fact has sidetopspin on it but that's another topic, I haven't really tried it out.
 

That reverse sidetop "push" is pretty common. Normally use it against a chopper short to bring them in to a shorter ball. that way if they are off to ball kicks and tends to stand up ready for a stronger ball or smash. It's also good when someone drops a short serve back to add a change up. you have to have pretty good touch to make it work or it becomes maybe a bit to obvious.


Nah, it's not difficult. It's one of those strokes that anyone can learn given 3x 10min sessions on a robot or with a coach. Very useful in pushing rallies.

Definitely not difficult to learn, agree with you. It doesn't seem to be used as much as some years ago from what I've seen. Being on the circuit watching alot of matches do you still see a lot of it or other variations btw?. I was referring to getting it short and tight off a return which does need good touch off the bat or it sticks up. 

If you think about what the stroke is trying to achieve, then you realise that every player above beginner uses it in some form. It's just one of the basic rallying tactic.
The player-aim is to try to draw his opponent to push a ball that contains either light backspin or some topspin. The hope is that the opponent having pushed this ball lays himself open for an attacking topspin (usually) stroke.
This happens in every pro match. Pick any match and watch carefully. There is a short heavy push, a heavy push in return seemingly, next ball goes long, then bang. They are now into a topspin rally. Or a variation.


Edited by Tinykin - 08/01/2020 at 5:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2020 at 5:38am
Really good point and well put. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2020 at 12:42am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Same here, will definitely be trying this out. If it doesn't win a point it'll least get a laugh. 

Nothing feels better than successfully bamboozling your opponent Wink
Yes a good thing to practice
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2020 at 3:16am
Took a break today from all the heavy powerlooping exercises for both FH and BH, and revisited this. 

I already knew the concept but never really tried it out, as I felt it was too advanced of a stroke. But I figured why not haha.

So I started doing it against an opponent that usually gets 7-8 points off me in games (when I'm going all out looping). Surprisingly it was devastatingly effective, he was pushing or looping balls randomly into the net or out on most of the receives I did. I even "gave" him extra odds by not looping at all, and he still could only get 7-8 points lol... I might consider making this my primary receive along with the sideswipe (which I can vary between sidetopspin and sideunder easily too). Step aside BH chiquita and short pushing LOL... 

I asked my friend what did he think, and he thinks this is the most disgusting receive he's ever seen with the exception of long pips hahaha.

So basically there's two motions to this, you first do like a pushing movement which is then followed by a flicking movement. 

So you either do:

1) push movement is true and flick movement is false, this will generate a very heavy sideunderspin ball
2) push movement is fake and flick movement is true, this will generate a sidetopspin ball - amount of spin depends on how good your flick is.

Just alternate between 1) and 2) and enjoy the look of disgust on your opponent's face haha as he tries to figure out wtf is happening...


Edited by blahness - 12/13/2020 at 3:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2020 at 7:37am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Took a break today from all the heavy powerlooping exercises for both FH and BH, and revisited this. 

I already knew the concept but never really tried it out, as I felt it was too advanced of a stroke. But I figured why not haha.

So I started doing it against an opponent that usually gets 7-8 points off me in games (when I'm going all out looping). Surprisingly it was devastatingly effective, he was pushing or looping balls randomly into the net or out on most of the receives I did. I even "gave" him extra odds by not looping at all, and he still could only get 7-8 points lol... I might consider making this my primary receive along with the sideswipe (which I can vary between sidetopspin and sideunder easily too). Step aside BH chiquita and short pushing LOL... 

I asked my friend what did he think, and he thinks this is the most disgusting receive he's ever seen with the exception of long pips hahaha.

So basically there's two motions to this, you first do like a pushing movement which is then followed by a flicking movement. 

So you either do:

1) push movement is true and flick movement is false, this will generate a very heavy sideunderspin ball
2) push movement is fake and flick movement is true, this will generate a sidetopspin ball - amount of spin depends on how good your flick is.

Just alternate between 1) and 2) and enjoy the look of disgust on your opponent's face haha as he tries to figure out wtf is happening...

Another variation would be to receive back to the deep backhand. This type of push where you let the pendulum serve [typically] and use that type of push, if you hit it early sends the ball firmly back with a lot of sidespin straight back to the deep backhand, rather than short forehand.

Obviously you could flick it to the deep backhand too.

Then you'll have your opponent wondering if its a push or a flick, and whether its coming to their short forehand or BH. That'd made a weaker opponents brain explode!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2020 at 8:10am
Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Took a break today from all the heavy powerlooping exercises for both FH and BH, and revisited this. 

I already knew the concept but never really tried it out, as I felt it was too advanced of a stroke. But I figured why not haha.

So I started doing it against an opponent that usually gets 7-8 points off me in games (when I'm going all out looping). Surprisingly it was devastatingly effective, he was pushing or looping balls randomly into the net or out on most of the receives I did. I even "gave" him extra odds by not looping at all, and he still could only get 7-8 points lol... I might consider making this my primary receive along with the sideswipe (which I can vary between sidetopspin and sideunder easily too). Step aside BH chiquita and short pushing LOL... 

I asked my friend what did he think, and he thinks this is the most disgusting receive he's ever seen with the exception of long pips hahaha.

So basically there's two motions to this, you first do like a pushing movement which is then followed by a flicking movement. 

So you either do:

1) push movement is true and flick movement is false, this will generate a very heavy sideunderspin ball
2) push movement is fake and flick movement is true, this will generate a sidetopspin ball - amount of spin depends on how good your flick is.

Just alternate between 1) and 2) and enjoy the look of disgust on your opponent's face haha as he tries to figure out wtf is happening...

Another variation would be to receive back to the deep backhand. This type of push where you let the pendulum serve [typically] and use that type of push, if you hit it early sends the ball firmly back with a lot of sidespin straight back to the deep backhand, rather than short forehand.

Obviously you could flick it to the deep backhand too.

Then you'll have your opponent wondering if its a push or a flick, and whether its coming to their short forehand or BH. That'd made a weaker opponents brain explode!

Actually the "pushflick" (my terminology as I think I partially invented this stroke :P) can almost be used against serves of all kinds of spin, and both on the FH and BH, it's just a matter of adjusting blade angle, and it can pretty much go anywhere you want it to, and it's more of an aggressive stroke. Today when I was practising with my friend I was using this along with the Waldner sideswipe (aka the fade which has the opposite sidespin). 

I haven't really figured out how to make this work with the short push, but I guess with the short push you just kinda short push and don't bother with the fake flick movement lol... I think I vastly prefer this to a short push tho because being an aggressive stroke it firmly places initiative in my hands. Against side underspin serves this is a real killer, of course you can use it against sidetopspin serves too but imo the chiquita is more of a killer against sidetopspin serves. 

So basically with this I can kinda attack all serves, be it long or short, underspin or topspin or no spin. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2020 at 11:58am
The shot has been around for ages unfortunately but take credit for it SmileWink

BTWThumbs Up no offence ment seriously.

See Waldners time and before in many forms. You might not be from that era as a younger player mind. It's interesting to go back and take a look how things have envolved.

Great trick shot or surprise shot but for a standard return bread and butter shot it doens't seem to have arrived in the game as a standard tool kit. The blackhand flick is the go to for many players for stability thats why the higher players use it I would think.

At the Lower level could catch on maybe. Interesting to have and see 100%  Cheers Thumbs Up










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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2020 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

The shot has been around for ages unfortunately but take credit for it SmileWink

BTWThumbs Up no offence ment seriously.

See Waldners time and before in many forms. You might not be from that era as a younger player mind. It's interesting to go back and take a look how things have envolved.

Great trick shot or surprise shot but for a standard return bread and butter shot it doens't seem to have arrived in the game as a standard tool kit. The blackhand flick is the go to for many players for stability thats why the higher players use it I would think.

At the Lower level could catch on maybe. Interesting to have and see 100%  Cheers Thumbs Up


Show me a video of Waldner doing it and I'll shut up Tongue I do not believe it is in his toolkit, and I've watched a LOT of Waldner lol. Alternatively show me a video of another older player doing it. No video, no proof....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2020 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Actually the "pushflick" (my terminology as I think I partially invented this stroke :P) 

Yeah sure - and I partially invented the Internet LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2020 at 3:35pm
seems to me the only way this could be effective is if once in awhile you led with the push and then flip it it on purpose for disguise. Otherwise   people are going to see it coming a mile away the way he leads in with an open blade
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2020 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

seems to me the only way this could be effective is if once in awhile you led with the push and then flip it it on purpose for disguise. Otherwise   people are going to see it coming a mile away the way he leads in with an open blade

I improved on his idea. Firstly he didn't go around the side of the ball (which increases dwell time and there's more room for deception). Secondly he didn't have the variation with the actual flick which starts with a push movement (ie open blade). I can produce both heavy sidetopspin and sideunderspin with my version which is why I had so much success deceiving my opponent. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/13/2020 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Actually the "pushflick" (my terminology as I think I partially invented this stroke :P) 

Yeah sure - and I partially invented the Internet LOL

TongueTongueLOLLOL
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Kolnok View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kolnok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2020 at 8:23am
I really like this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2020 at 11:54pm
Developed this pushflick stroke further and tried it against long pips, they also absolutely hate it because of the very wide angles created (from the sidespin) as well as the uncertainty between sidetopspin and sideunderspin. Most importantly, with just adjusting blade angles you can cater for both underspin and topspin from the long pips easily without losing your balance. Combining this with the fade version of this is just killer in terms of moving the long pips player around. 

It's almost like role reversal, usually the long pips person plays weird spin to trick inverted users and move them around, with this it seems like I can move them around a lot easier than they can move me around. And it also seems like I'm tricking them with spin variations even more than they are tricking me lol. 

And with inverted, you still maintain the threat of a powerloop, so once you got them out of position and they give you an opportunity ball, you'll be able to finish those balls off easily. 

I'm quickly becoming a huge fan of this stroke, it's perfect as a receive and also seems to be a long pips killer. 
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FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

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