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Upper body rotation in BH, yes or no |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Posted: 09/26/2020 at 6:29am |
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Do you use it, and why?
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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My thoughts are, pros of rotation is the ease of generating power, cons is that it's slow....
Some pros rotate, others don't, and some take a mixed approach (only rotate when they have an opportunity ball)
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14822 |
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When you need power and have time, especially away from the table, it makes sense.
Closer to the table, moat players just use the leg and back muscles/core for quick rallying. Harimoto and Ma Long hardly twist for example.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6895 |
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the king was kreanga.
I see now more elbow out as a fulcrum
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Valiantsin
Super Member Joined: 05/21/2020 Location: OFallon Status: Offline Points: 261 |
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My opinion - your body and legs should do the very same movement on any BH topspins.
What about upper body - there are actually 2 different movements: - incline movement which you control with non playing hand (it can be done in forward - back direction and in left to right direction or mixed) and - rotation movement around your back spine axis - which actually encreases on power. First one is used just to trap to the ball in needed vertical position (basically it is controlling your timings) so you always do that on any BH hit. Second one - the closer to table - the less involved it OR when you finish the point and the ball is in your control and you have enough time - you can involve it also.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14335 |
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Unless you're Kreanga trying to emulate Kreanga is a losing proposition. Study Jorgen Persson or Samsonov instead. Just my two cents. Relaxed stroke. The key is you need to move to the ball. You can reach for forehands and still hit a good shot. But with backhabnds you want to hit from your optimal location or no matter what else you do, you will be erratic. This idea is kind of complimentary to the previous comnent about keeping your stroke the same, or maybe a slightly different way of describing it. If you're trying to hit it from different locations (ball relative to body) you'll never succeed in that.
Edited by Baal - 09/27/2020 at 2:53pm |
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Valiantsin
Super Member Joined: 05/21/2020 Location: OFallon Status: Offline Points: 261 |
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Yeah - agree - it's actually direct explanation of what I meant - when you have similar strokes - they are just more consistent and the more consistent they are - the more advantage they give you. Finish when you are already almost won can be of any kind but to trap to that finish you should better have something more stable of a good quality. (controversially my coach told me from time to time: the hardest balls - are the simplest balls - meaning you can loose focus and just fail on any easy ball, so should respect your opponent and play each ball as consistently as possible)
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Haha I think it's too difficult to play like Kreanga, I'm not too sure how he kept his arms in their sockets after so many of those wild swings But there's also in between solutions. Ma Long actually rotates too, just a smaller degree (maybe about 30-40 degrees?), Harimoto, Jeong Young Sik and Timo don't rotate much (relies only on the hip hinge movement pretty much). Powerhouse LJK also has a small quick rotation when he does his trademark BH powerloops but he doesn't rotate much in normal play. There's also players who use small rotations all the time like FZD and ZJK and Kenta Matsudaira and Lee Sang Su.... I'm kinda bored during lockdown and am just trying to design my BH stroke lol...Tbh I don't rotate much at all too for all strokes currently (hip hinge method), it's consistent and fast but a bit lacking in the power tbh...
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bars
Super Member Joined: 04/07/2017 Location: EZ Status: Offline Points: 167 |
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sometimes. it helps get to the ball on time
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Baal
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True. But the average MyTT member is not quite like Ma Long!!!! On the other hand, I have known some BH-dominant amateur players who are capable of ripping their backhands really hard and pretty consistently, so it's not like it can't be done. But either way, my sense is that it matters the most what you do before contacting the ball, which means being in really optimal position.
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notfound123
Gold Member Joined: 01/18/2008 Location: MD, USA Status: Offline Points: 1022 |
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This advice is spot on. Watch this tutorial.. This guy knows a thing or two about BH loops. Edited by notfound123 - 09/27/2020 at 9:46pm |
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 984 |
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Yes, it's all about time. JPENholders tell us best about it and they do it always on a slow ball or far away from the table, watch Kim Taek Soo.
Reading this thread I stumbled on that funny clip, watch it at 0.25 speed, it's really cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l526tV8mhGw As a side note, Kreanga was more full arm facing the table (feet wise) unloading from a hip thrust while the legs action was more heavily pronounced with KTS. My question is: ideally, while learning, should the hip jerk a.k.a the legs work be encouraged in any bh topspin, even for the slower ones? avoiding bad habits is the idea behind the question.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Tbh the powerful BH rip probably doesn't win that many points, a lot more are decided on consistency and placement and speed.... But sometimes it's just fun to awe the opponent/audience with a dismissive BH rip just like Liang Jingkun so that you can walk away like a boss lol...
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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idk
Silver Member Joined: 07/11/2011 Location: Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 789 |
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Exactly, kreanga's backhand gets wildly overrated and glorified due to some highlight reel off the table counter loops, but considering all aspects of backhand play, he fell far short of many of the greatest backhands of all time. |
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AcudaDave
Gold Member Joined: 11/02/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1858 |
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I tend to rotate a little from right to left. I usually rotate my hips and shoulder slightly from right to left, and when I contact the ball I snap my wrist. My coach told me many years ago that you should hear your wrist cutting the air when you snap your wrist. If you don't hear that then you don't have enough speed. Try doing a BH swing without your racket and when it's very quiet in the room. You should hear your wrist cutting the air.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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I can hear a much louder sound if I rotate haha... Even if it's a small rotation... Am leaning towards the small rotation philosophy (maybe 30 deg or so) as a good compromise...
Edited by blahness - 09/28/2020 at 8:40pm |
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Completely agree, but sometimes you just wanna be in the highlight reel. Winning or losing is secondary to that...
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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idk
Silver Member Joined: 07/11/2011 Location: Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 789 |
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His primary backhand threat was one dimensional, and his strength lied in points that don't happen a majority of the time during a match. Looking at the full range of shots particularly in serve receive and at the table play, in current and recent times there are guys like Harimoto, FZD, LJK, ZJK, Ovtcharov, Ma Long, Wang Hao...historically, Karakasevic, Mazunov, Rosskopf of course gets a mention, Persson, Waldner... I think all of those guys had significantly better backhands OVERALL. As mentioned earlier, if you are focusing less on the highlight reel points and look more at the full match video I think this becomes clear
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BRS
Gold Member Joined: 05/08/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1583 |
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Baal
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Its why I said watch Persson instead. Most versatile BH ever.
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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I have been practicing doing a full circle for more power, but I do get dizzy
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Lmao this is exactly what I meant!
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Lol what magnitude of rotation do you do
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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