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Short Pips: Vertical vs Horizontal |
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Rollko
Super Member Joined: 03/11/2020 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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Posted: 12/16/2021 at 8:01am |
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I'm looking for a new sheet of short pips - planning to use it for flat hitting, hitting through spin, aggressive blocks close to the table, but also controllable placement etc.
What type of pips are better for this purpose? Vertical or Horizontal?
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speedy
Gold Member Joined: 01/21/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1802 |
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I don't think it would make a big difference. However, I usually use vertical pips arrangement on my backhand. I tried horizontal pips arrangement on my forehand, and it seemed to feel better. But again, I don't think it would make a big difference.
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SPEEDY
Viscaria Super ALC ST JOOLA Rhyzen CMD(FH) Nittaku Moristo SP (BH) |
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ericd937
Gold Member Joined: 06/01/2012 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
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It depends if you are using the pips on forehand or backhand. Typically vertically aligned pips are better for forehand and horizontally aligned pips are better for backhand.
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Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80
Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
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kim_taek_soo
Member Joined: 04/15/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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In my opinion, the short answer to your question is vertical. Flat hitting and hitting through spin are best done with pips that are less sensitive to spin, so you probably want a vertical pip that emphasizes speed, not spin.
In general, horizontal pips play more like inverted, for example, with pips like Raystorm, 802-40, and VO>102, you can let the ball drop and still hit a loop. Many horizontal pips can still do all the things you mentioned (flat hitting, hitting through spin, aggressive blocks, and controlled placement), but they are more sensitive to spin. If you want to try something with good control and plenty of speed (spin is average), I recommend Sonic AR in 2.0 thickness. A cheaper option would be 802 (not 802-40) in 2.0 thickness. |
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BTY Neutrino R
Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 My feedback: https://mytabletennis.net/forum/topic92859.html |
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Basquests
Silver Member Joined: 08/29/2016 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 520 |
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I like the razka / new gen horizontal pips because they don't pigeonhole a FH. In fact, it's more versatile (more gears / range of options) than any inverted rubber / traditional SP. Obviously, this comes with a tradeoff, as flat hitting is not as effortless, but you can set up slightly easier balls with your more versatile rubber, especially as you can play spinny (or dead) shots and make them look very similar. Falck used this in the doubles world champs to great effect, as it ensures less than precise returns, which his brother used to then summarily attack the next ball. Non spinny pips won't have this range of spin, nor will you be able to consistently loop with spin, which is one of the joys of TT to many.
Edited by Basquests - 12/23/2021 at 4:17am |
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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MY BELOVED BABY
Mima Ito using short pips to her best advantage. Follow Mima Ito playgame. She is a Queen, she is Goddess. My beloved baby. |
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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Raystorm are vertical oriented.
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kim_taek_soo
Member Joined: 04/15/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Good catch! I used Raystorm on my FH for 5+ years and I never even noticed. I always lumped them together with horizontal pips because they were (for many years) the spinniest SP made by Butterfly. Now this makes me wonder how much horizontal/vertical really matters...
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BTY Neutrino R
Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 My feedback: https://mytabletennis.net/forum/topic92859.html |
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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I have used hexer pips vertical and horizontal and I feel some diffrence. I checked last time that he zhiwn is using a new pip called 802SP
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andzejgolot
Super Member Joined: 10/26/2018 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 309 |
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do you have link for 802SP?? I have hexer pips, vertical or horizontal will be better? I prefer Horizontal btw
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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Dont know where you can get it but when hzw played lebrun hzw had 802SP in his raquet. I think vertical is better on hexerpips but the current versions are more boosted and faster than 4 years ago. Hope zeio can translate this many will like the info
Edited by mykonos96 - 12/25/2021 at 3:52pm |
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TwiddleDee
Super Member Joined: 12/27/2011 Status: Offline Points: 141 |
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During my short pips playing years, forehand only, I tried many, and found 802-1 the best for hitting through spin, control and speed, on a Clipper clone. Don't know where to buy it nowadays.
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andzejgolot
Super Member Joined: 10/26/2018 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 309 |
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https://www.sportspin.cz/potah-ritc-802-1/
they are good friends
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andzejgolot
Super Member Joined: 10/26/2018 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 309 |
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if I will be honest 802-1 is 802 with HRS sponge so basically
you buy this one and https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1391646516.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.5dda41cfx0gKSq&algo_pvid=bc303596-5a75-4c5a-9b09-4d15a1351965&algo_exp_id=bc303596-5a75-4c5a-9b09-4d15a1351965-1&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2266146896849%22%7D&pdp_pi=-1%3B48.78%3B-1%3B-1%400.230000%3BPLN%3Bsearch-mainSearch
and you must take off the sponge and glue HRS Cream sponge |
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p3v56yahoocom
Member Joined: 03/29/2004 Location: Michigan, USA Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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Personally, I'm not used to vertically aligned pips. I feel that the pips aren't fully grabbing the ball in top spinning. I have no such issues in top spinning with horizontally aligned pips.
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ThePongProfessor
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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802-1 and 802 are not the same .
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Basquests
Silver Member Joined: 08/29/2016 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 520 |
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I disagree quite strongly with this guide. Pushing short and counterlooping/mid distance actually is a strength of razka PO. Your counterloop can be spinny, can be dead, can have turn but no spin, can cancel either top or sidespin but leave the other, or you can just counter. But the fact its halfway between old shortpips and inverted, means the reduction of spin sensitivity gives you so much control. Pushing low and short or long is probably the biggest advantage. See how falck loves receiving, all that's required is decent bat angles/timing, vs inverted requiring much more. No adjustment was required for receiving, simply the results are significantly better for any instance of timing/technique, the ball will have more quality. An issue is most players don't have decent technique for receiving in general, and since pips gets the ball on, many aren't forced to improve. |
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p3v56yahoocom
Member Joined: 03/29/2004 Location: Michigan, USA Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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I think Professor Hrdlicka's article is well-written. Please allow me to respectfully give me two cents.
Advantages:
Disadvantages:
I can think of another disadvantage. Humidity. Playing in a humid room is more challenging as the pips do not grab the ball as well. It tends to slide off on spiny shots. Consistency comes down greatly as a result. Overall, short pips are so much fun to play with.
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TwiddleDee
Super Member Joined: 12/27/2011 Status: Offline Points: 141 |
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One other advantage of playing with short pips is it is easier for older players to stay in the game longer. If they could never loop or can no longer do so, a switch to short pips simplifies the game for them. All they need to focus on is pushing, blocking and hitting a high or loose ball. I have seen some older short pips players learn how to hit underspin balls using an open racket stroke, similar to what hardbat players do. I realize that as I age, I will be able to stay competitive with short pips or hardbat.
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Basquests
Silver Member Joined: 08/29/2016 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 520 |
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Razka PO in max will let you loop backspin balls even easier than with MX-P. Counterlooping et al is also all easier. Traditional SP are great, but people really need to try the new age Moristo's / Razka's. I spent 8 months out injured, and in my first session back with a human [got 2 months of physio aka TT robot practice], got to play with a much better player [#8 in NZ]. I was winning the majority of loop to loop points, despite being relatively new to SP [I got them a week before I got injured] and not being good in loop to loop generally when I had MX-P. You have lower spin sensitivity, and don't even need to bend or whatever nearly as much. Depending how you hit it, it can be a dead loop, light or heavy topspin, a ball that turns but is otherwise dead, or with sidespin. Obviously it takes some training [the robot helped my technique immensely, knowing how and when to contact the ball, making your action uniform], but again, looping backspin / counterloop is a cinch. I welcome much stronger players giving me those points, as around the net, dead short loops, loops to the BH side are all really easy to control, as you just get impacted by less spin. So having decent technique gives you way more control than decent technique with inverted. I feel people who start with SP's, may not even reach decent technique with it / experiment with the newer pips. If you haven't faced high quality spin, with rubbers that can feel most/all of that spin, you will never be incentivized to improve your technique / ability to deal with high quality spin. An anti-player just shoves their bat their, a player with dead rubber doesn't have great bat angles. A player with ESN/high quality rubber, knows bat angle, pressure/squeeze level, bending their knees, how to absorb the impact and knows to gauge the spin. If you can do all that with pips, instead of knowing approximately where the ball will go, you know almost exactly where it will.
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