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Butterfly blades - the whole truth! |
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Hipnotic
Silver Member Joined: 09/30/2019 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 772 |
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Posted: 01/07/2022 at 3:44am |
Sorry for the clickbait, I couldn't resist đ
** labels might be misleading, I'm talking about the second layer here, not the core** I had this conversation so many times that I decided to write a post about it. If you look at the composition of a Butterfly blade online you will see Limba written all over the place for their second layers. That is incorrect. The truth is that Butterfly doesnât disclose the composition of their blades, all you see online are just guesses that got passed around, and unfortunately the majority of them are incorrect. Butterfly uses Ayous in the second layer for the majority of their blades, such as Viscaria, TB line, ZJK line, Innerforce, etc⊠How do I know this? The difference is clear if you know what to look for, but I also saw the inside of some of these blades and proved it myself. There are brands that use Limba, such as Xiom for example, and if you compare a Viscaria with a 36.5 you will see what I mean. Ayous can look like Limba in certain situations, but Limba is unmistakably Limba. First you gotta look at the end grain, which for the second layer will be on the side of the handle. If you look at the bottom of the handle they will look the same. Also, the blade must be new or in good condition, when sweat gets into the handle it makes the grain swell and the wood darker, which hides the characteristics we are looking for. Limba is usually darker than Ayous, thatâs a clue, but it may not be the case. The give away are the little diagonal lines you can see on the Ayous layer, which Limba doesnât have. They are called medullary rays, cellular structures found in some species of wood, what we in the TT world also call the fish scale pattern. So, is there a big difference? Not really⊠If we look at the average density of each wood, Limba is about 1.4x heavier than Ayous. For a normal blade this means 3-4g more. Limba is also about 1.5x harder than Ayous, this will give the blade a slightly harder touch. In the end, all else being equal, a blade with Limba instead of Ayous will feel a little harder, less bouncy, but with more speed potential. Edited by Hipnotic - 01/07/2022 at 12:56pm |
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Magic_M
Platinum Member Joined: 05/31/2012 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2219 |
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I can verify, that for example my Harimoto Innerforce ALC has Ayous as second layer (under the Limba outer). Please look at the structure (diagonal lines) of the Ayous core
and compare it with the structure of the second layer You can see the same diagonal lines, a clear indication that the second layer is Ayous, although several sites list it with 2x Limba outer, for example like on this page: https://tabletennisblades.com/butterfly-blades. But SĂ©rgio is right: Butterfly uses Ayous as second veneer in several composite blades. |
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andzejgolot
Super Member Joined: 10/26/2018 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 309 |
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didn't know that is true, and I put my innerforce blades on hand and he has 100% rights, so the most luxury and unique with price ish blades were made with 3/7 proportion of the most popular, used and easy to buy wood in table tennis
this is not unique, not worthy to talk about, I think my ZJK blue dragon was made from 100% leftovers so we all fall in to marketing, btw ayous is more expensive than limba...
Edited by andzejgolot - 01/09/2022 at 12:50pm |
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kindof99
Premier Member Joined: 02/07/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4227 |
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I have never seen a player dislike a bty blade as much as you since I have seen many times your comment about zjk blue dragon. Have you checked that it might be a fake one? There were many fake zjk blue dragon on the market a couple of years ago.
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andzejgolot
Super Member Joined: 10/26/2018 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 309 |
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I Had N series from 2013 year and I know a lot of M series are fake and I played near 50-100 blades or more with construction as top ply is koto and second material is artificial fiber:
alc/kevlar carbon/Kevlar/zlf/zlc/tamca/softcarbon/cnf I played a lot of 5 ply all wood blades with Koto as top ply I played a lot of 7ply all wood blades with Koto as top play I had even 5 ply with construction as Koto Koto Balsa with ANDRO JM Saive OFF- a lot of not the highest selling blades and a lot of popular choices TSP Gaia 1/2 , Nittaku Ma Long, Hurricane King x3 (Wang Liqin 08 vibes) Timo Boll W5/W7, Korbel Speed, Schlager Precision, Avalox p500 Xiom Fuga, Xiom Diva, Defplay Classic Senso, Persson Carbotec, Joola K7, Xiom Vega Euro, Timo Boll ZLF x5 Timo Boll ZLC x4 Viscaria x 10 its 36 blades right now Timo Boll ALC x4 Andro JM Saive OFF- x3 Butterfly Revoldia Andro Kinetic CF Kevlar Carbon https://revspin.net/blade/andro-kinetic-cf-kevlar-carbon-off.html Andro Kinetic CF Titanium ALL+ (first reseller blade from my collection) Andro Saive OFF Andro Kinetic OFF+ Andro super core OFF- it is even my photo on internet http://a.allegroimg.com/original/1eb878/94de0c31437fbcc288a6e7c28b4a Victas Dynawood Power it is 50 blades I forgot about Kenta Matsudaira ALC Zhang Jike ZLC x3 Zhang Jike SPZLC x4 Lin Gaoyuan ALC it is 59 blades I can even name 10 blades handmade blades designed by myself and made by my friend from https://www.facebook.com/Made-by-hand-Table-tennis-blades-104887278688257 I even not mention chinese blades because it was too much, but it is not the highest part of my collection Tibhar Drinkhall Powerspin Gewo Force ARC x3 it is 63 blades Yinhe V14 Pro 64 blades. I had blades bought for 40 PLN = 8$ and viscaria O series for 1600 PLN = 320$ So you can say money is not part of issue. you can see Revoldia CNF and Victas Dynawood Power like brothers, this is not funny from Butterfly I dreamed about ZHANG jike blue dragon, the time of searching was like the highest mountain for me and you can see real Boss in myself , legendary status, big player, all eyez on me. I find that I wrote around 111th times about ZHANG jike blue dragon to my female friend WHO had near deadstock ( like new) and she bought by my short recommendation or idea, I send her link and short note. The funny part is guy WHO sold her zjk blue dragon was addicted to gambling and he received money but he didnt want to send her the blade So I wrote 111th times to her with full good deals just to buy vnds Blue Dragon for me, and she never wants to sell IT.... One day I bought from my different friend.... This blade is like soft Brick without any Control. I put 50 different rubbers, spend 100h with Zhang Jike BD... I never tried destroy anything, because it is like bread to myself. But here I was shocked how IT works. I was near to put flying knee on my ZJKBLUEDRAGON, IT made me nervous everytime I glued rubbers and played all 2hours training, IT drops my performance to 20% soft rubbers- ish, hard rubbers ish, hybrid rubbers ish, pips=ish heating stove-> "Leonardo Di Caprio/Drake pointing finger meme" So I call my female friend to try different batch for a week and she sends me her Zhang Jike Blue Dragon VNDS with the same rubber combination (TSP Ventus Spin/Speed) and IT was the same situation: - no quality balls, slipping from rubbers, a lot of edges, bĆocks goes high and loops are going down and it was worse than Chinese stiff blade from Boer, the action was like= low throw and high throw at the same time, no linearity, no pleasure to even hold big size handle, IT plays too bad on plastic balls TOOOOOO fast and toooooo slow at the same time, I tried 05/05fx and was like WTF the nearest blade I can compare to Zhang Jike Blue Dragon is Yinhe V14 Pro which sounds not that bad, but Yinhe played 20xtimes better the top ply was easy to destroy, the edges were chipped, every gluing and regluing was nightmare and it cost me 150 euro, Edited by andzejgolot - 01/10/2022 at 8:14am |
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Crowsfeather
Super Member Joined: 08/03/2013 Location: Thailand Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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Thank for information sir, I read Nexy thread about wood plys and its very informative.
Ayous property changes between being a core and being second surface, its also easy to process for manufacturer, so im not surprise why they are so pupolar. The grain are answer as well, according to cutting process, the same way of making music instrument, quatersawn - riftswan - plain swan Edited by Crowsfeather - 01/10/2022 at 11:07am |
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I'm no longer an EJ and I'm proud .
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Hipnotic
Silver Member Joined: 09/30/2019 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 772 |
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Grain orientation is important, more with some woods than others. For Ayous is not that important because there are no significant mechanical properties differences in the various directions of the grain. However, for woods like Spruce and Hinoki for example, it's very important.
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