Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Why this blade Butterfly is posted as ST?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Why this blade Butterfly is posted as ST?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
kolevtt View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/13/2011
Location: European Union
Status: Offline
Points: 2572
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why this blade Butterfly is posted as ST?
    Posted: 06/30/2022 at 12:26pm
Hello,

Many people are asking why this blade is posted as ST, but it is FL.
Honestly, I don't know the reason.
Anyone?

Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Location
Status: Online
Points: 984
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2022 at 8:48pm
If it's a FL that does not fool around with other FL blades then it's kinda ST?
Back to Top
doraemon View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 05/14/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1738
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2022 at 10:48pm
Does ST stand for "Standard"???

Just a guess.
Blade : Just wood
FH : black rubber
BH : red rubber
Back to Top
ZApenholder View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/04/2012
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 4804
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2022 at 3:41am
I don't think ST on the label is for handle type.
I've seen the Jonyer Hinoki, which has a Jonyer-H on the label.
Back to Top
kolevtt View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/13/2011
Location: European Union
Status: Offline
Points: 2572
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2022 at 5:57am
Originally posted by ZApenholder ZApenholder wrote:

I don't think ST on the label is for handle type.
I've seen the Jonyer Hinoki, which has a Jonyer-H on the label.


Yes, in Jonyer-H , the letter H means Hinoki.
What doest it means with this signature ST if it is not about the handle or material?
Back to Top
kolevtt View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/13/2011
Location: European Union
Status: Offline
Points: 2572
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2022 at 6:07am
Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

Does ST stand for "Standard"???

Just a guess.


Standard about what?!? 
I was also thinking for this option but it is Very wide interpretation.
Meaning of the word STANDARD could be different for everyone.
If someone has a catalogue from 70's we can see for sure the description.

In my thoughts this ST could be something like Super Topspin because the blade has extremely high stability for that. But of course, I am probably not even close what ST means here.

I don't know if this model was offered in a real ST version. Never seen another one with these green signatures and named after Jonyer.
So, If the people in Butterfly Japan have prepared more metal tags preliminary with signature ST, but they produced more FL handles because clients asked for more FL than ST handle and that could be a reason to use ST signature in FL handles.
But that is not so serious for a manufacturer like Butterfly. But could be some exclamation.
Maybe I can send message to BTY dealer with request if no one is familiar here.
Back to Top
kolevtt View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/13/2011
Location: European Union
Status: Offline
Points: 2572
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2022 at 6:29am
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

If it's a FL that does not fool around with other FL blades then it's kinda ST?


No, this blade is definitely FL, nothing common with ST handle. Which is strangely.
Also - I don't know for another model any brand which is made in this way.
Back to Top
kolevtt View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/13/2011
Location: European Union
Status: Offline
Points: 2572
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2022 at 6:32am
Honestly, the blade is absolutely original, there are no traces from removing the tag, so it is posted in the factory in Japan by Butterfly specialist. Not sure if material for table tennis blade could be posted shortly ST. The wood is made visibly with basswood material. What could means ST here.
Something like Special T...........?!?
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 10833
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2022 at 7:28am
It appears Butterfly never produced that model.

https://www.butterfly.co.jp/story/history_of_products/shake.html
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 10833
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2022 at 7:34am
Could it have been a model produced for the European market by that factory in Hungary under Butterfly's license, so Butterfly Japan doesn't consider it canon?
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
Magic_M View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/31/2012
Location: Germany
Status: Online
Points: 2217
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Magic_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2022 at 5:24am
I think, I can help Wink

In this time (70`s) Butterfly named their handle shapes with the names of famous players like Stiga also did since several years before:
  • Stellan Bengtsson = straight handle, 
  • Hans Alsér = flared, 
  • Ulf Ticker Karlsson = anatomic and 
  • Kjell Johansson = conic
In the case of Butterfly: 
  • István Jonyer = flared, 
  • Tibor Klampár = anatomic
  • Antun Stipančić = straight
At first Butterfly used face stickers on the handles like Stiga already did since several years.
Here you can see 2 versions of the first Butterfly Jonyer blades:



The blade on the right side is the well known Butterfly Jonyer Hinoki, a pure 5-ply hinoki blade.
On the left side you can see the first Jonyer "Standard" with American basswood as outer veneer.
The second veneer + the core were made with hinoki.

Some years later (at the end of the 70`s) Butterfly used a metal tag instead of the lens stickers.
While the Hinoki-version was still produced with 5 hinoki veneers, the S-version got 5x Basswood.



Here you can see both blades together in an old catalogue:



I do not speak french language, but google translator says that "en bois normal" means "normal wood".
Like I wrote before, this version of the "Standard" Jonyer was built by 5 layers of American basswood.
Therefore it has the same construction like the Butterfly Kenny Style for example.
Back to Top
ZApenholder View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/04/2012
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 4804
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2022 at 6:02am
Magic_M

lovely - thank you.

Have to say, I tried to research it, and was amazed to find little to no information.
that just shows you, the internet isn't complete


Back to Top
tom View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 11/18/2013
Location: canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3016
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/03/2022 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

Does ST stand for "Standard"???

Just a guess.
quite a good guess!
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Location
Status: Online
Points: 984
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/03/2022 at 10:54pm
Do you remember the 5-ply Nexy Color with the Hinoki Outer? I never played with a Joyner and I am wondering how far apart they are. I have understood along the years that the Joyner is a reference in the 5-ply all wood looping blades and the Nexy Color was my reference for a while there but I was always a composite addict somehow, in a silly way I have to say since my game never needed composite, until now to help putting the ball away.
Back to Top
kolevtt View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/13/2011
Location: European Union
Status: Offline
Points: 2572
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/04/2022 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by Magic_M Magic_M wrote:

I think, I can help Wink
Here you can see both blades together in an old catalogue:



I do not speak french language, but google translator says that "en bois normal" means "normal wood".
Like I wrote before, this version of the "Standard" Jonyer was built by 5 layers of American basswood.
Therefore it has the same construction like the Butterfly Kenny Style for example.


Helpful as always! Thank you for the nice pictures and explanation! Handshake
What a strange way to mark a blade! So, ST means here STANDARD, but this word could be used for a very large quantity meanings. It was interesting to know that the Jonyer S model was with 3 ply Hinoki and outer were basswood. I had this model long time ago, it was bigger than the ST model I have now.

The text in french language on the last pictures says : Same as the model above, but with NORMAL wood. So, according to Butterfly, the blades could be Normal and Hinoki. Surely later some of the stuff had the idea for the Non-normal blades (with composite elements Big smile )

Okay, three questions :
1/Why they didn't use letter N for Normal?
2/Is this Japan made blade? I think so.
3/What you will be able to buy with 112 French Franks back in time?

Maybe some French people here could post a word or two. For sure the hinoki model was more expensive, but specially for me I think the playing skills back in time are for the S/ST model, because rubbers were much more slowly and light in the same time. So, you need power. It is strange that the catalogue says Jonyer-H 95 grams. Never seen such a thing, but several models - 78-85 grams maximum. And the blade ST that I have is actually 99 grams, much better for playing with 2.0mm Sriver from past times.
Thank you once again for the nice answers!


Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 1.984 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2024 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.