Thomas Keinath on plastic balls

Baal wrote: Hans Regenkurt wrote: Kolevtt grasped the gist of it all. He is very right about less skilled players beating better ones owing to the spin unfriendly behaviour of the ball. I myself conducted a little test last Friday with players who are lower ranked and technically not so adept. One of them was a hobby player who restarted the sport after a 20 year break - he said he could not feel any differences between the DHS plastic ball and the Joola *** celluloid. Then I went on to test with a player who cannot loop with his forehand and uses ox long pips on his backhand, he just slaps the ball when it pops up without really knowing how it spins. He also commented that he does not feel that much of a difference. After that there was a 14 year old kid who has been playing for 2 years and he strives to make proper attacking strokes, he has not got stuck at the level of pushing. It is only his strokes are not solid but no one can expect more after 2 years. He loops rather well with the celluloid ball but he was disgusted by the DHS plastic ball and he missed almost every second loop. I feel that some forum members are too optimistic about the plastic balls currently on the market. I would bet that the ITTF sanctioned tournaments will not get the same crappy ball as the average player does. Based on the little info on the Nittaku Premium plastic ball, that could be something usable but have a look at the price of the plain Chinese produced SHA ball, it is 5.40 EUR / 3 pcs + shipping at tabletennis11. How much will the premium cost? I have a hunch that it will be about double. You can argue that the prices will drop as the market gets saturated with the new plastic balls but in the case of the Nittaku Premium, I cannot see that going below even 5 EUR for a long time from now, which is quite a lot for three balls. Especially bearing in mind that we don't know anything about what the durability of the Nittaku Premium balls will turn out to be.  My fear is that that problem is inherent in the material.  I hope I am wrong. As for outcomes of matches, I think it will take a bit more time to see if what Kolev says will turn out.  It may put a premium on a somewhat different skill set, but from what I have seen playing with them there will still be many ways for skilled players to show their superiority.  One thing I noticed about the Joola version is that I was punished more for footwork errors.

The material used in the Nittaku Premium 40+ is likely different from what I gather. It is a special material developed in collaboration with Toray.

I've hit a few times with the Nittaku 40+, but never for more than 5 minutes at a time. For purposes of adjusting, it reminds me of switching to a new rubber. Just takes a little getting used to.

Baal wrote: Yes, adjustments are required with a significant change in rubber, but the things that need adjusting with the new ball are different.  Switching from, say, Vega to Tenergy 05, requires some minor adjustment in stroke but not adjustment in timing and footwork.  However the new ball affects all of these things.  If I switch from one offensive rubber to another it doesn't really affect how I react to my opponent's shots, but with the new ball if your opponent hits a particular shot that you have seen millions of times -- be it loop, push, block, whatever --- the new ball doesn't react quite the way you expect once it hits the table.  It's not like playing against LP or anti or something like that IMHO (since the guys I mostly play with are full out offensive players).  Their loop is still a loop, their is no "spin reversal", the ball is not dead, you certainly can't play an offensive player now as if they are an anti or LP player.  It's just that their offensive shots not behaving quite the same way, and it is just enough to mess up.

I think he was speaking about the Nittaku Japan ball specifically - everything I hear about that ball is relatively good compared to the others.  I just need to get my hands on one...

Baal wrote: Not clear from his post since he didn't specify that detail.  I have played with Nittaku 40+ Made in China, and they are the same as the DHS, Joola, etc.  Those are generally available now and so more likely that is what he had, and as I said, quite a few adjustments are needed. The only reason I got to hit with a Japan Nittaku 40+ is because a US team member who plays  at my club had one (and only one) ---although there do seem to be a few of them floating around various places in the US.  The ball came in a box of one!  I had never seen that before.  It is a lot better (the ball, not the box).  No question.  It wasn't exactly like celluloid, but close enough.   I will order some as soon as they go on sale somewhere accessible to me.  One last thing.  If all you do is hit some counters or loop a few balls while someone blocks at you, you will not see all the ways that the Chinese polyballs are different.  It will feel a little different but perfectly ok.  You really need to play some live points, and the longer you go, the more things you will find that you will need to adjust.  You will have to keep a few things consciously in mind until the way this ball plays becomes instinctive, and that is never a good thing.  Don't underestimate what it will take to feel comfortable with these.

Benfb is in Oregon and pretty close to Paddle Palace, who is sending out most of these balls.  That doesn't make you wrong, but does explain how he might have come into contact with the ball, amongst other possibilities.

We are currently in the process of doing a full review and video review of the DHS plastic ball with our equipment expert, Matt Hetherington. Should be all done in the next few days. We also released a segment in our latest newsletter on 7 important tips you need to know to adjust to playing with the new ball :D

suds79 wrote: I played with both the Joola & Donic plastic ball last night. Got a lot of video as well as recorded club member's thoughts...........Very small differences. Virtually everyone in the club last night was playing exclusively with the poly balls last night and reactions were overall positive.

Hello, I am impressed very positively from your review
What is the level of your partners/players in the club and your own?
Did you play for points during this training?

This is in response to the two last posts.

Edited by suds79 - 08/04/2014 at 12:39pm

assiduous wrote: I don't know what to think any more.

What about "we are screwed"?

assiduous wrote: Played with Joola 40+ last night. The guy DIDN'T TELL ME. Sound was very difficult to tell apart from the celluloid balls. It did feel different but I thought it was just a cheaper, LIGHTER ball, because this guy never buys good balls.  It plays totally different than my Xushaufa ball. Mine sounds plastic, but feels HARD and HEAVY and has GREAT CONTROL. Joola sounded natural but the path of the ball was very disruptive to my game. It was hard to adjust in just one match. Not my experience, again, from the xushaufa ball. I liked the chinese, but i don't like this one. I don't know what to think any more.

Did you immediately see the difference?  I did that trick to a practice partner without telling him and he noticed the difference after the second warmup rally, and stopped, starred at the ball and asked me what it was. 

I think a lot of people would agree with you that: 

1. Seamed vs. unseamed Chinese balls are quite different, especially sound but also feel.

2.  Joola and it's ilk (seamed Chinese) sound more like conventional celluloid but the aspects that take getting used to emerge when you don't know in advance right where the ball is going (in free play) and are disruptive.

Actually there are some people in my club who prefer the XSF to the Joola, mainly because of the higher bounce.  Personally, I hate the sound of the XSF too much and it seemed to slow the game down more, but in a way it was less disruptive.  I am not sure at this point which is worse.  I think I should try the XSF ball a bit more.

@suds
My experience with quite a few matches and lots of free play with these things is that outcomes are the same as usual, just like at your club, but quality of play from both players is lower.  This was also my experience when we switched from 38 to 40 (which persisted for several months).   I have to say that I am really unhappy with roundness and durability of the seamed balls I have had so far.  It could be that there is a much greater batch variation than we are used to.

suds79 wrote: Okay I couldn't wait. Plus the video after I throw it together might be a little longer. Here's the gist of what players said about the new ball. - The new ball is harder - The spin appears to be slightly down - Blocking is easier. Ta http://chroniclesofgossima.blogspot.com For full thoughts on the matter, see the blog. Check it out if you're interested.