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HongKong's re-submission to change Rule 2.4.2

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    Posted: 04/13/2017 at 11:10pm
Not long ago, Hong Kong did made more efforts to re-submit the proposal to change the racket composition (Rule2.4.2) and it should pass the votes smoothly at the next ITTF AGM, June 2017. The given reasonings behind the proposal sound most convinsing at first reading, still it has some hidden pitfalls.

   1488x2105


Most of the synthetic materials are dull to feel, overpriced and with poor controllability.
This present time natural wood is the only available material to offer a good control and feeling of the ball due to its fibrous nature. The inner "one-way" structure of the wooden fibres are working like violine strings to conduct the impact vibrations to your hand.   NO FIBRES INSIDE THE MATERIAL, NO FEEL TO YOUR HAND.

What structural material, other than natural plywood, would provide me a decent amount of feel on hitting the ball?   Fiberglass maybe?
All carbon blade? Bizarre idea... I do enjoy the strong feelings in play, and prefer all wood blade before any composites.
Again, contrary to HongKong forecast, the composite blades are known to be more costly than natural plywoods.

The obvious reason for HK struggling to get the proposal passed would be to benefit manufacturers, to allow manufacturers to take the market with a variety of new products.   It is safe to forecast --The new rackets to get more speedy, speedy, speedy and accurate play impossible .... Gloomy prospects to come, indeed...

http://www.apparelsearch.com/terms/n/natural_fibers_list.html

http://www.apparelsearch.com/terms/n/natural_fibers_list.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiberglass
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2017 at 11:40pm
"...from other materials, without cavities and not compressible."
Wow... ... ...
(a) one really needs to define "not compressible"; even wood is compressible somewhat 
(b) "other material" - I just imagined... some years from now there may be "other materials" that will make a TT match a purely technological duel. Well, that way at least the need for a permanent regulatory TT authority is assured and well.
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rosecitytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2017 at 11:49pm
igorponger, that is very interesting information, thank you.i favor single-ply penhold blade, hope they dont pass "any material paddle " proposal.

Edited by rosecitytt - 04/14/2017 at 9:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 1:16am
Originally posted by rosecitytt rosecitytt wrote:

igorponger, that is very interesting information, thank you.i favor i-ply wood blade, hope they dont pass
You're misunderstanding, they are not proposing banning single ply blades. They are proposing that blades can basically be made of anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 6:37am
Nonsense. All composite blades should be banned and only pure wood should be used. In this way the game will become more interesting. Nobody wants to watch the ballbusting we have at the moment.

Edited by ChichoFicho - 04/14/2017 at 6:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 6:52am
When one-ply Hinoki is all about ballbusting.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 7:32am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

When one-ply Hinoki is all about ballbusting.
 That's the dumbest thing I've read in a while.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rosecitytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 9:34am
it's like saying, violin can be made of any material, but for thousands of years, violin remains essentially the same. It is the player who made the difference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 10:50am
Everybody should be forced to use what I use!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by rosecitytt rosecitytt wrote:

it's like saying, violin can be made of any material, but for thousands of years, violin remains essentially the same. It is the player who made the difference.
And yet old violins like the Stradivarius that are built with old wood are still the most irreplaceable and highly sought after violins

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Everybody should be forced to use what I use!!!
Because we wouldn't have this problem if everyone was still using hardbat! I'm sure that with a hardbat, modern players couldn't hold a candle to the long-slacked, chicken-wing-forehand-driving, hair-slicked-and-parted, Marty-Reisman-wet-dream hardbat players that I can't get go of.


Edited by IanMcg - 04/14/2017 at 1:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 4:19pm
Not only that, if people don't use what I use it means the death of table tennis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 6:06pm
Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

When one-ply Hinoki is all about ballbusting.

 That's the dumbest thing I've read in a while.

Guilty as charged. The "most aesthetic style" that is all about ballbusting.

Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

True indeed. Jpen is superior to cpen in all aspects, though it is harder to master. Once you have mastered it, you will feel the privilege of being able to appreciate the most aesthetic style in modern table tennis. But like all arts, it depends on knowledge that is elusive, manifold, and resistant to clear formulation. Sometimes the process of creating art is difficult and a bit discouraging. Thus becoming a master of the Japanese penhold grip is a hard task, a challenge, that only the bravest of souls have tried, and only the strongest and the most intelligent have succeeded


Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

Originally posted by sandiway sandiway wrote:

They push every underspin serve. And rip the 3rd ball (hopefully) for a winner. 

 No Ma Lin flip with the jpen. No banana possible without rubber on the reverse.

They are obviously excellent athletes. Shame they are stuck with the limitations of their chosen grip. I think they could be much better players if they had forehand and backhand options.

 The jpen style gives them advantage because they are great athletes. Cpen is for slower guys. In Korea very very few people use cpen because they are easily  overpowered by the jpen crowd. Especially now with the 40+ mm ball.


Such an aesthetic style! All you gotta do is bust it up!



Edited by zeio - 04/14/2017 at 6:19pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 6:23pm
Hinoki is very soft but very dense- great for single ply blades. You gotta feel the ball as much as possible so you can bust it as hard as you can with as much accuracy and control as you can get, because there's not much else you can do when one of your sides is dramatically limited when compared to the other.

I'll also bet that very few people in China use Jpen when compared to Cpen, because they get easily overpowered by cpen players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 7:19pm
Do not sell me your dryed milk, I am a dairy keeper.

HONG KONG YOU'RE FUNNY FOLK, INDEED. USING SYNTHETICS IS A FOLLY.

you make me all lauthing to shreads...    
It is much like when I running a dairy producing fresh milk in plenty, and HK hucksters came up and trying to sell me a truck of dried milk. Funny people, indeed.

We don't need synthetics. We do now have a great variety of wooden materials available in plenty from the many wood suppliers. We do not need your f..king synthetic materials, nor your freak non-wooden paddles.
   Just look around, the Globe is a large multitude of forestries, both wild and planted, of those a good many tree-species fitted well for building table tennis blades. --balsa, abachi, aspen and many more.. We have nothing more better to wish for.
Using synthetics is a selfish freak idea by some Hong Kong's manufacturer(s), I guess..

http://www.wood-database.com/balsa/

http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3673
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Not only that, if people don't use what I use it means the death of table tennis.

...That's a very timely statement!
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2017 at 8:48pm




Edited by IanMcg - 04/14/2017 at 8:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2017 at 5:38am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

When one-ply Hinoki is all about ballbusting.

 That's the dumbest thing I've read in a while.

Guilty as charged. The "most aesthetic style" that is all about ballbusting.

Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

True indeed. Jpen is superior to cpen in all aspects, though it is harder to master. Once you have mastered it, you will feel the privilege of being able to appreciate the most aesthetic style in modern table tennis. But like all arts, it depends on knowledge that is elusive, manifold, and resistant to clear formulation. Sometimes the process of creating art is difficult and a bit discouraging. Thus becoming a master of the Japanese penhold grip is a hard task, a challenge, that only the bravest of souls have tried, and only the strongest and the most intelligent have succeeded


Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

Originally posted by sandiway sandiway wrote:

They push every underspin serve. And rip the 3rd ball (hopefully) for a winner. 

 No Ma Lin flip with the jpen. No banana possible without rubber on the reverse.

They are obviously excellent athletes. Shame they are stuck with the limitations of their chosen grip. I think they could be much better players if they had forehand and backhand options.

 The jpen style gives them advantage because they are great athletes. Cpen is for slower guys. In Korea very very few people use cpen because they are easily  overpowered by the jpen crowd. Especially now with the 40+ mm ball.


Such an aesthetic style! All you gotta do is bust it up!


Yes, they are excellent players. Meanwhile, you'd better stick to your basement pong. I bet you have no match there


Edited by ChichoFicho - 04/15/2017 at 5:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/15/2017 at 10:13am
All change is bad. Things changed.  Very very bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2017 at 9:55am
Hk did a step back with its proposal ..

http://www.oettv.org/files/doc/Sonstige-Dokumente/2017_ITTF-Results-PropositionsResolutions.pdf

Some updates on the HongKong's "big step" now came out..
HK withdrew their initial proposal, just a week before the voting, and reworded it as follows

Proposed by Hong Kong Table Tennis Association
and Korean Table Tennis Association

    ITTF needs to study and review the rule on materials of a racket blade, with an ultimate goal that blades may be made of materials other than wood.[/llist]

    Thus, it is good to know we don't get some sort of nuclea weapon on open market. ... till the next ITTF meeting.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2017 at 11:07am
Originally posted by IanMcg IanMcg wrote:

Originally posted by rosecitytt rosecitytt wrote:

it's like saying, violin can be made of any material, but for thousands of years, violin remains essentially the same. It is the player who made the difference.
And yet old violins like the Stradivarius that are built with old wood are still the most irreplaceable and highly sought after violins

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Everybody should be forced to use what I use!!!
Because we wouldn't have this problem if everyone was still using hardbat! I'm sure that with a hardbat, modern players couldn't hold a candle to the long-slacked, chicken-wing-forehand-driving, hair-slicked-and-parted, Marty-Reisman-wet-dream hardbat players that I can't get go of.

Amen, hallelujah, and all praise be to Marty, brethren and sistren!.  And yes, tt wouldn't be having all the problems everybody knows tt has if the long-slacked, chicken-wing, forehand-driving (well maybe not so much Barna), hair slicked and parted hardbat players still were the tall roosters in the tt coop.

And oh please Baal, don't come down on me with your Sumerian hammer of Thor just because I comped a bit on IanMcg's post.  I thought that post was pretty funny.Big smile


Edited by berndt_mann - 10/14/2017 at 11:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote passifid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2017 at 12:48pm
Can we not all agree table tennis was it's best and most competitive when played with a cork ball and drum style bats with long spindly handles. Give mr long one of them and then he wouldn't stand a chance against the sheer mastery and tenacity of Rick Allen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2017 at 1:39pm
Why stop there. Let's go back further. Much further. Caves. 30,000 years before the present.

Ogg like rock and stick! Watch Ogg hit rock with stick!

No!! Mogg like flat stick better! And smaller rock!

(At which point just before Ogg and Mogg get ready to fight over this, a distant ancestor of Berndt or possibly even Berndt himself showed up and loudly claimed to Ogg and Mogg that using a stick with bark on it ruined everything; and then brought it up every might around the fire for the entire summer, even when everyone else was discussing the best way to chase down a mammoth or chip a hand axe).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2017 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Why stop there. Let's go back further. Much further. Caves. 30,000 years before the present.

Ogg like rock and stick! Watch Ogg hit rock with stick!

No!! Mogg like flat stick better! And smaller rock!

(At which point just before Ogg and Mogg get ready to fight over this, a distant ancestor of Berndt or possibly even Berndt himself showed up and loudly claimed to Ogg and Mogg that using a stick with bark on it ruined everything; and then brought it up every might around the fire for the entire summer, even when everyone else was discussing the best way to chase down a mammoth or chip a hand axe).


Blandly amusing for those who like their amusement bland.  The sound of one hand clapping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2017 at 6:37pm
Given what blades cost with two thin composite layers, I imagine prices would be really absurd it tbe whole thing was a composite, BUT more predictable.

It happened in tennis.

By the wsay a carbon blade would be made of fibers glued together.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2017 at 9:46pm
I'm frankly surprised that here it is 2017 and the ITTF, which has done just about everything imaginable, and a couple of things unimaginable (eleven point games in 1997??!! you've got to be kidding!) to muck with the sport has yet to decide that it's time to go whole hog and let everyone (who can afford them) use all-composite blades, which tennis, racquetball, squash and badminton have already gone and done.

The ingenious chaps which have given tt spring sponge, tensor rubbers and blades composed of exotic woods and more exotic composites such as basalt should be able to come up with a Ma Long II Hyper-Titanium-Molybdenum-Carbon-Boron-Basalt blade for about, oh, around $350-$400 American.  And once Ma starts blasting everybody off the table with one of these bad boys every club chump with a fat wallet and a raving desire for a quick fix to his game is gonna want one.

Mogg may have had a point (my Neanderthal ancestor Burnt too, so named because he invented fire but made one so big it damn near burned the cave down).  But as the saying goes, the train left the station long ago, and there's no bringing it back.  If composite tt ever happens, and you're not enamored of it, you're just gonna have to find an alternative.  I can think of two offhand that are out there.



Edited by berndt_mann - 10/14/2017 at 9:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/15/2017 at 12:46am
I for one doubt that even the ITTF would go so far as to allow this.
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