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karis h is out! |
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koshkin 
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Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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 Posted: 06/28/2017 at 7:10pm |
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I am comfortable with fairly short dwell time, so M+ is very workable on the Mazunov for me. However, it is indeed better on a flexier blade. It is a more versatile setup allround.
ILya
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BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05 |
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koshkin
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Posted: 08/28/2017 at 10:39pm |
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I ended up getting two sheets of each version of Karis (red and black of each: M. M+ and H) and playing with them for the last three months or so on three old wood blades: 1970s vintage Stiga Alround Begtsson, 1980s vintage Stiga Clipper and 1990s vintage Butterfly Mazunov. In that time, I wore out one H and two M sheets, which is rather exceptional longevity by my standards. Mind you, this was primarily doing drills, not playing games, which is very hard on a rubber (and the way I contact the ball seems to kill the topsheet with spectacular pace). Anyway, this is better than any Butterfly or ESN rubber I have tried to date. It is also considerably longer than Nittaku Hammond Power which dies in about half the time. I think the geometry of the Karis topsheet really helps with longevity.
Somewhat predictably, the H version was a little difficult to control on the Mazunov, but it worked well away from the table. The regular M version worked adequately on the Mazunov overall, but really shined on the BH. With the M, placing a spinny opener was easy and I could follow it up with a nasty flat punch. On the FH, M was too soft and seemed to top out on the bigger shots. I can make a pretty good case that I should not be going for those shots anywhere, but I like crisper feel. In practical terms, the softer feel of the M had th emost effect on my FH serve. I really like harder rubbers for serving. Had I stayed with the Mazunov, I would have played with Black M+ on the FH and Red M on the BH. M+ really worked nicely on the Mazunov FH for me with nice linearity and crisp feel. Old Clipper is only a touch slower than Mazunov, but is notably less stiff. Regular Karis M, did not work great for me on the Clipper, mostly because of the feel. It played fine and it was a blocking machine. However, pushing felt weird. M+, however, was perfect on the Clipper on both sides. Nice linear feel and excellent top end without any sacrifices in table game. This combination was really nice a step away from the table. I am more or less a two wing power looper and this combination was a lot of fun. On the Alround blade (which is ultimately what I ended up playing with), regular M was not my cup of tea. Once I figured out the contact, spin and speed were not really an issue, but I did not like how it felt on a flexible blade compared to the harder sponged versions. More importantly, I really like to brush the ball and that is not the type of contact that worked well with M on a flexible blade. M+ worked nicely on both sides, but I really like it on the BH. Harder sponge supports thin brushing contact much better than the medium sponge on the M. Both looping and punching work well and now that I worked out the contact, I am really enjoying the precision this combination affords. H really shines on the Alround on the FH (and is very nice on the BH as well). I have reasonable variety of shots on the BH, but on the FH I really do three things: serve, push and loop. I have two loops in my arsenal: spinny and very spinny. Every once in a while I try to add some variety to my FH and it always ends badly. The one shot that I really need on the FH, and that I am terrible at is the block. I block just fine in practice, but can't block for the life of me in matches. With Karis H on the FH of my Alround blade, I actually have a FH block. It is not a great block, mind you, but it is a block and it keeps me in the point, which is all I ask of it. So, for the moment, I play with Karis H on the FH and Karis M+ on the BH. Lastly, there is a difference between red and black topsheets and the difference is more apparent on the harder sponge. Generally, both topsheets spin nicely when looping and have about the same throw, but black feels crisper and is spinnier on slower contact shots, like pushing and serving. I spend a fair amount of time practice serves and with the red topsheet, I need a longer stroke to produce the same type of bounce than with the black sheet. Similarly, it is a little easier to produce a high arcing BH opener with a short wristy loop with a black sheet. Still the difference between black and red is a bit less pronounced than with the Tenergy 80 for example, so it is perfectly workable. At the moment I have to similar blades with the Karis H on the FH and M+ on the BH, except one has a red FH and another black FH. I can't quite figure out which setup I like better, so I will keep going back and forth between them, until the topsheets wear out. Presumably, at that point, I will be reasonably settled. ILya
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BTY Mazunov ST
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BH-Man
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Posted: 08/29/2017 at 2:18am |
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I really like M+ on the ALL to ALL+ Lissom. I could cope with M on the faster blades... handled incoming topspin and kept me in points. Sure, Karis M doesn't feel Macho Man on those Macho man shots, but I win a lot of points with it. M+ seems to me best on a flexy blade for what I do, but the Koreans who love to bang it luv the daylights outta H, it is right up their alley.
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BH-Man
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Posted: 08/29/2017 at 2:20am |
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I concur with Koshin on longevity, the sellers of Karis are like the Maytag repairman commercials. Long life doesn't create huge repeat sales each month, but what the heck, I luv it. I got 500 hours outta my black sheet of M on the KJH before it took it off, someone else still using it.
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koshkin
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Posted: 08/31/2017 at 5:27pm |
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500 hours? I do not think I ever got 500 hours out of a sheet of rubber. You must have a very square. contact.
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koshkin
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Posted: 09/18/2017 at 9:17pm |
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I have to amend my impressions on longevity for the harder sponge versions.
At the moment, I have black and red sheets of M+ and H. The way it is going, the longevity of the red sheets is less than half of that for black sheets. I got a chance to play some matches in Chicago while I was there on travel last week and my red sheet of Karis H went bold on me. At first I thought that my contact was inconsistent, which is not uncommon for me (I practice a bit more than I used, but I do not play matches all that much. Also, apparently everyone in Chicago uses shiny worn out Butterfly g40 balls). However, flipping the racket immediately fixed things. I did some drills and looked carefully and the spot on the red rubber where I contact the ball most of the time has all the grip of a sheet of anti. I was sorta able to use it on the BH, since I engage the sponge a little more there, but it was not good. That Karis H sheet probably has 30 hours of play on it at most. So, I got home and looked at my spare blade. That one has red M+ on one side and I see the same issue except a little less pronounced. I do not know if it happened to be a QC problem or if a hard sponge of the H makes topsheet wear stand out more. I had a sheet of red M and it lasted distinctly longer. I really like the way Karis H and M+ play on the BH, so I guess I will keep using the black sheets on the BH and will have to look for a red rubber that works well on the FH. Perhaps, it is time to try a sticky rubber again. H3 National, maybe? I hear these are a little more consistent than H2 Neo was back when I used to play with it. ILya
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yogi_bear
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Posted: 09/19/2017 at 9:34am |
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karis H is too bouncy to be placed in a very fast blade or a very stiff blade.
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koshkin
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Posted: 09/19/2017 at 9:45am |
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I play with an all-round blade.
ILya |
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BH-Man
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Posted: 09/19/2017 at 9:17pm |
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For whatever reason, we tend to move 3x the sheets of black M than red M. I got 500 hours outta my black and 250 on a "new" red when I glued them on another forum member's bat, still in use. I was still spinning when I had them. Again, I think H was made with the Korean Bang-Bangers in mind, the ones who really punish the ball. M or M+ is fine for me on most blades, I tend to stay in moar points.
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HarmonicTT
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Posted: 09/19/2017 at 10:08pm |
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That's because the pros use black as forehand lol.... and red as backhand. Heck even I do :P
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VictorK
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Posted: 09/20/2017 at 9:36am |
My experience and opinion differs from yours - I don't find Karis H bouncy at all. < id="_npfido" ="applicationpfido" height="0">
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koshkin
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Posted: 09/20/2017 at 12:13pm |
I gotta say that I am on board with that. Based on a total of three red sheets and three black sheets, I found that I really prefer the black one. They start out playing very similarly, but then red sheets have been dying on me, while black sheets soldier on a lot longer. ILya
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yogi_bear wrote: