Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Giving up on 2000
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login
tabletennis11.com

Giving up on 2000

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>
Author
NextLevel View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 12892
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/22/2019 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by Lula Lula wrote:

I think it is more important for him to get good coaching, than playing with better players. 
If you play with better players but have awful technique you will of course become better but i think it will take longer time and i think you will have trouble becoming really good with "bad technique". 

If he have a good coach and works on the technique, he can play with players that are not better than him as long as they can play okay and work on the strokes. It would proably be harder to develop a good technique if he plays with only better players since he need to focus so much on putting the ball on the table. 

A mix would proably be best. 


He has gotten a lot of good coaching already. He needs to play somewhere where he isn't the best player and where better players can play him and mentor him.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Carbonado 45
FH: Fastarc C-1 2.0 B
BH: Fastarc C-1 2.0 R
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes.
Back to Top
skip3119 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 02/24/2006
Location: somewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 7817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/23/2019 at 12:10am
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

2000 is not "really good".

It is, in fact, objectively a measure that indicates that someone is pretty damn good at the game (significantly better than the average competitive/tournament player and light years beyond the average casual player), and can reasonably be considered an expert level.
==============================

To reach 2000 is very hard, we have only 4 or 5 players out of 100+ members.

To stay there (2000) is even harder. 
We have 2 club members, when looking at their rating history, "2000" was listed only once.
(To see "2000" being listed TWICE in one's rating history is even harder.)



Edited by skip3119 - 01/23/2019 at 12:31am
Back to Top
mjamja View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 05/30/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/23/2019 at 12:32am
Just tried to post on how frustrated tonight felt at club.

But forum will not accept that post.

Even more frustrated now

Point was basically I spent 2 hrs driving, 3.5 hrs at club and got in about 15 min of what I would call normal training.

Something is wrong with me, my play, or my attitude because others seem to be doing what I want to do, but I hardly ever get to do it with any of them.


Mark - Very frustrated

Edited by mjamja - 01/23/2019 at 12:42am
Back to Top
jackwong23 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 08/14/2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 1510
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/23/2019 at 2:32am
This should motivate you.

Back to Top
Simon_plays View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 05/02/2015
Location: Vietnam
Status: Offline
Points: 659
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/23/2019 at 7:11pm
Worth considering: when did you set yourself the target of wanting to reach 2k?

It may well be the case that since then the genral level of table tennis has gone up and your level now is actually equivalent to 2k back in the day. In which case I say it's time for a pat on the back, goal achieved and let's move on to the next target. :)
Back to Top
skip3119 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 02/24/2006
Location: somewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 7817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/23/2019 at 7:53pm
Forget about the rating, just practice more often and play more matches - and enjoy the game.
Don't bother too much.  May be one day, you will see that 2000.

Back to Top
mjamja View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 05/30/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/23/2019 at 8:03pm
It is not as much about the rating as it is about the time and money I am spending without seeing any improvement. I had plans to try real training this winter by moving to San Antonio. But I just can not get that training going despite time and money invested being way more than before. I am giving up on all that special effort.

8 yrs ago my rating was 1733. 4 years ago it was around 1870. Now it is 1836. I think that pattern shows that I am not getting much better and I think my play confirms it.

Mark
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 3009
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/23/2019 at 8:09pm
mjamja, I've seen some of your videos before, I feel you're placing too much emphasis on topspin. You already have a very solid topspin countering game, what's needed is probably more on serves and pushes. 

The serve is probably the most important part of table tennis, having a deceptive serve will lift your entire game significantly and is worth at least 2-3 points per game imo. For e.g. the BH service tutorial very helpfully translated by mickd is an excellent start (check the thread out!). Practice it in front of a mirror and disguise it such that the blade angles and movement is close to identical from the receiver's viewpoint. 

Learn how to add heavy underspin to your pushes, and vary that with no-spin pushes (which are pretty much bumped back), and you'll frustrate a lot of loopers who don't read the push movements well. 

In my opinion, topspin is only about 20% of what makes a high level player high level. The game is a lot more complicated than that! 
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3-50
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Northwest USA
Status: Offline
Points: 16085
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/23/2019 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Worth considering: when did you set yourself the target of wanting to reach 2k?

It may well be the case that since then the genral level of table tennis has gone up and your level now is actually equivalent to 2k back in the day. In which case I say it's time for a pat on the back, goal achieved and let's move on to the next target. :)
mjamja, no need to come up to Seattle, we made it yay!
Back to Top
BH-Man View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/05/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4639
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/23/2019 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

It is not as much about the rating as it is about the time and money I am spending without seeing any improvement. I had plans to try real training this winter by moving to San Antonio. But I just can not get that training going despite time and money invested being way more than before. I am giving up on all that special effort.

8 yrs ago my rating was 1733. 4 years ago it was around 1870. Now it is 1836. I think that pattern shows that I am not getting much better and I think my play confirms it.

Mark
 

Mark, I got 150+ points better over here, some of it was improvement on quality of my topspin, but most of my improvement was touch and shot selection/point construction. You have more potential to improve than I did. You have 1-1.5 levels on just serve alone to grow easy. That alone is almost enough to 2000. That and some receive and placement improvement you are mid 2000s level player easy.
Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc
Back to Top
skip3119 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 02/24/2006
Location: somewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 7817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/23/2019 at 9:32pm
fatt mentioned about BH serve - that's interesting.

In our club we have a 2300+ level player.
I watched carefully when he played some 2000+ players.

The 2300+ player's BH serves -  the serve motion all looked like the same.
But the 2000+ players' returns, either went right in to the net, or pop up 3 feet high.
(One kind must be heavy under-spin, and the other must be heavy top spin.)
They played a lot over months or years, the 2000+ players just could figure out the serves.

If one day you can serve a strong under-spin or a strong top-spin with similar hand/arm motion, you will reach 2000.  Deceptive serve is very important.  (Btw, I can not do that.)

fatt got it right, if you can improve on your serves, you can reach 2000.

There are a lot of videos on serves on the web.



Edited by skip3119 - 01/23/2019 at 11:13pm
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 1034
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/23/2019 at 9:38pm
I completely agree there. I think touch, serve, and service return is where the most progress can be made. I spend so little time practicing my serves, but lately I've been getting better at producing spiny reverse side-under serves on the forehand, forehand pendulum serves that are very low and short over the next (ones that curl away from the opponent's backhand side as a left hander), and deceptive backhand serves. I'm not sure why, I just feel like my serves just suddenly increased a little and it DEFINITELY reflects heavily, more than any other practice I've done, in my games.

Sometimes I think it's important to work on other aspects to "give yourself a break" from what you're currently trying to fix. I'm sure others have had this experience too, but sometimes the break from thinking about 1 specific part of your game is what you need to suddenly "get it" the next time you work on it.

The thing about inefficient practice though, I can relate. I get it all the time. It feels bad. You'll just need to actively ask and find people willing to get some actual training in (maybe hard in your location, I'm not sure) or find a coach to work with regularly (what I ended up doing because I couldn't do the first option ha).

Keep at it Mark. We all enjoy seeing your videos and having your humor around here :)
Back to Top
Chopper88 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/24/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1014
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chopper88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/23/2019 at 10:41pm
Mark , dude don’t worry you will get to 2000, the biggest difference between 1800 and 2000 is the ability to keep 2-3 more balls on the table and your shot selection, that will come when you play more , not just quality of practice , I been up and down from 1900 to 2100 , the more games I play the closer to 2000 if I play less then it’s less , I practice with you at the last national senior games , if I didn’t know your rating I would had guessed you are close if not over 2000

Edited by Chopper88 - 01/23/2019 at 10:44pm
Back to Top
skip3119 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 02/24/2006
Location: somewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 7817
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 1:02am
Here are 2 videos of the deceptive serves

https://youtu.be/UiEcqpDBiFc

https://youtu.be/Bp6D4resTK0

Right in this forum, there is a very very good thread "deceptive BH serve tutorial video."
That's was posted by blahness.  Just look at the very first post.
(You can see that sometimes when the receiver touch the ball, the ball just goes straight down right into the net.)





Edited by skip3119 - 01/24/2019 at 1:05am
Back to Top
benfb View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 10/10/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2445
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 2:04am
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

Guess it is time to finally get real and give up on my quest to reach a USATT 2000 rating. I had some big plans for getting in serious training this winter to really improve my game. Things are just not working out the way I planned. Access to the club from my campground is more difficult and time limiting than I thought it would be. Getting lessons was foiled because the weeks I was in town turned out to be weeks the coach was out of town. Scheduling and the need to be in certain locations for business matters further reduced the days I am in locations where I can get serious training. Even when I do get to the clubs, I can not get into a serious training session. I end up playing matches with choppers, lobbers, and retrievers where I just can not get the type of practice I really wanted to focus on. I just have not been able to figure out how to train in the club environments I have available. There are players who train but I can not seem to get in with them. Some are just so much better that I have little to offer and others already have 1 or 2 training partners they like to use.

I think I need to quit trying to get better through formal training and just go out and play for fun. Probably need to play less often, but more intensively when I do play. Also I think I will spend more time on my physical conditioning with more paddling and hiking instead of TT.

Hate to give up on a goal, but sometimes you just need to be realistic. Better to have fun than constantly be unhappy about my lack of improvement. Maybe I should get an easier goal like playing in every TT club in US.

Mark - 1800 then, 1800 now, 1800 for forseeable future.
It looks like you're already received the best advice from several people: focusing on ratings is a mistake that is always bound to disappoint no matter how high you go.  Don't you think the 2100 players have goals of reach 2300?

I've already seen first-hand how much you enjoy coaching.  I say you should play for fun, look for opportunities to improve your skill set (but not by rating), and do more coaching.

Anyway, when you get back to Salem we can teach you how to drop your rating a few hundred points and then astonish people with your skill set at 1500.LOL
Back to Top
Tt Gold View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2014
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1174
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 2:46am
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

2000 is not "really good".


It is, in fact, objectively a measure that indicates that someone is pretty damn good at the game (significantly better than the average competitive/tournament player and light years beyond the average casual player), and can reasonably be considered an expert level.



I wouldn't consider 2000 to be "really" good. 2000 can be attained by just playing a lot. I think people have this 2000 mark in their head because it's a good number. I'd consider 2400 to be very good. Everything over that either needs insane work ethic or a lot of hard work paired with a lot of talent.
Back to Top
kenneyy88 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/06/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4090
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 7:32am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

2000 is not "really good".


It is, in fact, objectively a measure that indicates that someone is pretty damn good at the game (significantly better than the average competitive/tournament player and light years beyond the average casual player), and can reasonably be considered an expert level.



I wouldn't consider 2000 to be "really" good. 2000 can be attained by just playing a lot. I think people have this 2000 mark in their head because it's a good number. I'd consider 2400 to be very good. Everything over that either needs insane work ethic or a lot of hard work paired with a lot of talent.

2000 cannot be obtained just by playing a lot. 2400 is near top 25 US National players. 
Back to Top
aerial View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/11/2015
Location: NY
Status: Offline
Points: 315
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aerial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 7:45am
reading this makes me feel kind of the same way. i've been floating around 1500 to 1700 for years mainly cause real life gets in the way

hats off to all the support in this thread though, totally feeling the camaraderie 
Back to Top
Tt Gold View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2014
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1174
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 8:16am
Originally posted by kenneyy88 kenneyy88 wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

2000 is not "really good".


It is, in fact, objectively a measure that indicates that someone is pretty damn good at the game (significantly better than the average competitive/tournament player and light years beyond the average casual player), and can reasonably be considered an expert level.



I wouldn't consider 2000 to be "really" good. 2000 can be attained by just playing a lot. I think people have this 2000 mark in their head because it's a good number. I'd consider 2400 to be very good. Everything over that either needs insane work ethic or a lot of hard work paired with a lot of talent.


2000 cannot be obtained just by playing a lot. 2400 is near top 25 US National players. 
yes it can. I did it myself.
Back to Top
pgpg View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/18/2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1203
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 8:37am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by kenneyy88 kenneyy88 wrote:

  
...
2000 cannot be obtained just by playing a lot. 2400 is near top 25 US National players. 
yes it can. I did it myself.

Do you have actual USATT rating, given that you are in Germany? I guess even TTR would do (with usual caveats about difficulties of comparing two ratings).
USATT: ~1870
Donic Defplay - AK47 blue - Dtecs OX
Back to Top
FruitLoop View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 09/20/2018
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 408
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 9:17am
He has a TTR although I don't know what it is. It's roughly USATT minus 350 points but take that with a pinch of salt.
Back to Top
Tt Gold View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2014
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1174
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 9:17am
I don't have an actual US rating. But I just used the basic method that I trust more and more, as I see German and us rated players that fit into the formula.
Back to Top
bard romance View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 02/18/2016
Location: us
Status: Offline
Points: 955
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 9:27am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

2000 is not "really good".


It is, in fact, objectively a measure that indicates that someone is pretty damn good at the game (significantly better than the average competitive/tournament player and light years beyond the average casual player), and can reasonably be considered an expert level.



I wouldn't consider 2000 to be "really" good. 2000 can be attained by just playing a lot. I think people have this 2000 mark in their head because it's a good number. I'd consider 2400 to be very good. Everything over that either needs insane work ethic or a lot of hard work paired with a lot of talent.


Sure, it can be achieved just by playing, but that is the exception and not the rule. It is a statistical fact that the vast majority of club players never reach 2000, so by that metric, it is in fact a really good level. But this is not something that I would expect someone not from the USA who is commenting on USA club play to know.

2400 needs insane work ethic and a lot of hard work paired with talent. Even 2300 and 2200 do too. What percentage of players do you think achieve those levels without hard work/talent?

I'm familiar with many German players in the US - which players are you of a comparable level to? I found that the "general rule" of TTR+350 that I frequently seen thrown around here is way too rough of an approximation.
Back to Top
Tt Gold View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2014
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1174
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 9:35am
The question is "why do a lot of players struggle to reach 2000?" If two people find each other and decide to train together for example, then there is nothing in their way to achieve that. As I said earlier, I know that 2000 is the magical number in the US. I talked to a few people that told me that. 2200 can also be achieved by talent. I mean even 2300 can be achieved by talent and some training, but that's a low number. I also don't like the term talent. But I'd only talk about talent if someone has got a higher rating even though he shouldn't really have it in theory. We have a guy in our club for example that doesn't actually play exercises. He just plays some matches maybe once or twice a week, but has insane feeling for the ball. He is always in the 2200 region. But to be fair he won the German national championships for the minis way back then.
Back to Top
pgpg View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/18/2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1203
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 9:54am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

The question is "why do a lot of players struggle to reach 2000?" If two people find each other and decide to train together for example, then there is nothing in their way to achieve that. As I said earlier, I know that 2000 is the magical number in the US. I talked to a few people that told me that. 2200 can also be achieved by talent. I mean even 2300 can be achieved by talent and some training, but that's a low number. I also don't like the term talent. But I'd only talk about talent if someone has got a higher rating even though he shouldn't really have it in theory. We have a guy in our club for example that doesn't actually play exercises. He just plays some matches maybe once or twice a week, but has insane feeling for the ball. He is always in the 2200 region. But to be fair he won the German national championships for the minis way back then.

To clarify - we are not talking about the scenario when someone was properly trained when they were young, reached a very high level (German national championship qualifies, I think Wink , at whatever age), and then maintains a quite respectable level of play with little effort. The foundation is too good.

Instead, we are considering folks who got sucked into TT in their late 40s or even later and are trying to improve. Even learning technique from scratch is tough as you get older, but we also have tons of bad stuff to unlearn. So, plenty of things in the way, even if you have two people willing to train (as an observation, if all they do is just train together, they learn how to play each other well, which is not enough to get to 2000 IMHO). There better be a coach nearby and hopefully other high level opponents of various play styles. 

By the way, I agree that USATT 2000 is not 'good' from the perspective of a proper training program and high level league play in Europe. It's quite good relative to general club population in the US. And yes, it is 'magical' because it's a round number and 1000 is pretty trivial to get. 
USATT: ~1870
Donic Defplay - AK47 blue - Dtecs OX
Back to Top
GMan4911 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/31/2012
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 802
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GMan4911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 10:02am
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

I end up playing matches with choppers, lobbers, and retrievers where I just can not get the type of practice I really wanted to focus on.
What kind of training are you trying to get?  Do you have any rapidly improving 2000+ juniors at your club?  Maybe you could find one to train with you for $10-$15/hour.  I'd bet you'd get some takers.
OSP Ultimate II, FH/Xiom Omega VII Asia Max BH/Omega VII Asia Max
OSP Virtuoso+, FH/ITC Powercell Ultra 48 Max BH/Powercell Ultra 48 Max
Back to Top
Tt Gold View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2014
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1174
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 10:07am
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

The question is "why do a lot of players struggle to reach 2000?" If two people find each other and decide to train together for example, then there is nothing in their way to achieve that. As I said earlier, I know that 2000 is the magical number in the US. I talked to a few people that told me that. 2200 can also be achieved by talent. I mean even 2300 can be achieved by talent and some training, but that's a low number. I also don't like the term talent. But I'd only talk about talent if someone has got a higher rating even though he shouldn't really have it in theory. We have a guy in our club for example that doesn't actually play exercises. He just plays some matches maybe once or twice a week, but has insane feeling for the ball. He is always in the 2200 region. But to be fair he won the German national championships for the minis way back then.


To clarify - we are not talking about the scenario when someone was properly trained when they were young, reached a very high level (German national championship qualifies, I think Wink , at whatever age), and then maintains a quite respectable level of play with little effort. The foundation is too good.

Instead, we are considering folks who got sucked into TT in their late 40s or even later and are trying to improve. Even learning technique from scratch is tough as you get older, but we also have tons of bad stuff to unlearn. So, plenty of things in the way, even if you have two people willing to train (as an observation, if all they do is just train together, they learn how to play each other well, which is not enough to get to 2000 IMHO). There better be a coach nearby and hopefully other high level opponents of various play styles. 

By the way, I agree that USATT 2000 is not 'good' from the perspective of a proper training program and high level league play in Europe. It's quite good relative to general club population in the US. And yes, it is 'magical' because it's a round number and 1000 is pretty trivial to get. 
I'm also talking about people without a coach. There's actually a video on YouTube where the guy I just mentioned plays. Even I myself didn't have a coach. You can still do it. It just takes more effort. A lot of self reflection, always trying to think of new methods to up your level and a lot more. I just want to encourage mark, cause he can definitely do it.
Back to Top
BRS View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 05/08/2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1004
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 10:15am
I've played ttgold and seen him play other us players. He was over 2100 in July. And he's probably better now.
Back to Top
bard romance View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 02/18/2016
Location: us
Status: Offline
Points: 955
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 10:15am
Again, it is a rare exception and unlikely that an older player without access to coaching or high level play will reach 2000, or any typical club player for that matter. You having done it doesn’t make it as doable as you are making it seem. It seems your heart is in the right place but peppering in comments about how “easy” it is probably will not encourage someone who has plateaued. Also your comment about only discussing talent in the case of overrated players is very confusing, no idea what you are trying to say there.

On the flip side of the coin I’d say no shame if it never works out because it is not an easy bar to achieve.
Back to Top
Matt Pimple View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 12/03/2012
Location: Phoenix
Status: Offline
Points: 1839
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2019 at 10:20am
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

I'm familiar with many German players in the US - which players are you of a comparable level to? I found that the "general rule" of TTR+350 that I frequently seen thrown around here is way too rough of an approximation.

I did this and it was not an approximation but based on a statistical analysis I did of players who had both a USATT rating and a German TTR. By the way the standard deviation was 50 so the exact formula should be: USATT = TTR + 350 +/-50
Of course there may also be outliers but there are also statistical tools to test for outlier.

Edited by Matt Pimple - 01/24/2019 at 10:20am
Alser Allround 5 ST; DHS H3 Neo 2.1, Dr. Neubauer ABS2 2.5

My Feedback
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
About MyTableTennis.NET | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2019 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.