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Giving up on 2000

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BH-Man View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2019 at 12:51pm
I get along fine with just about any medium soft sponged max rubber on BH. Karis M, then Moristo, then Accuda S3... or a ton others as long as the sponge is right. 

emihet has me using dynamic rubbers on FH... different versions of Vega or Sigma mostly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/28/2019 at 1:14pm
What do you think about having only around 1400-1800 level people mainly to train with, but also having access to a high-end robot and table to practice on? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickhrdlicka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/28/2019 at 2:51pm
You are describing my situation. And while I admit that serve receives and blocking against very high-quality loops is difficult to practice, I think one can go a very long way towards 2000 and beyond with 1400-1800 level players + robot. One has to be creative and 'use' practice partners for what they are best at. For example, I sometimes practice with a 900-level 75-yr old player. He has a pretty good FH drive but poor mobility --> I play full table BH against him playing into his FH. Against others, I play handicap matches (1 point per 75 point difference), which forces consistency. Yet others again, I teach how to return my serves, resulting in closer matches. Combine this with footwork drills on the Newgy, and serve practice and 2k+ is possible. I think, however, it is difficult to breach 2300 in such an environment. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/28/2019 at 4:09pm
I still don't understand why people focus on a rating number...but i guess i grew up playing without a rating system...Mark i have seen you play and played against you in doubles when you visited; and there are clear strengths and weaknesses in your game...First you need to be clear and honest with yourself what these are and have a vision built on this reality to improve.  Robots, partners, drills, ways of playing lower players will help...As long as you find this sweet spot of ease where it is easy to beat an 1800 level player you don't know the truth of your game and it is hard to have an honest vision of where your game may end up...most people have an illusion in their mind that they are better then they really are, some people think they are worse then they really are...and very few know the true reality of their level...that is not to say that you should not dream or have the confidence of reaching higher levels of play....the reality is that up to about 2250 in the US you don't need to play a weaker pro level like style of table tennis to achieve...you have a good foundation, don't give up, find your reality work on the weaknesses, architect your game to maximize your strengths, and gage improving according to the ability you have!  BH-man wants to hit like Ma Long but sometimes lacks the abilityWink it feels good when he makes one shot out of 8-9, but may loose 11-3 easily...but then again when he plays within himself he looks like a 1950 level player not Ma Long and may beat the same person 11-9 big turnaround...
My advice is that 90% is improving control, placement, speed, spin, strategy, movement, reading your opponent's game, and spin awareness of your current game and 10% of the time push the limit and try to play outside of your comfort zone...this is practical advice for you to take baby steps in moving forward and improving...don't worry about the rating, that will come...an experienced player or coach who is looking from the outside and sees your game is also a good commodity to have and talk to from time to time about your vision for your game and keep you accountable to it in an honest and constructive way...I will make a claim that if  one masters the very basic fundamentals of table tennis it goes a long way...the length of that way is different from person to person, due to their talent, hard work or lack of, mental aspect, athletic ability, wisdom, self-control and confidence...have fun and keep focused on your development


Edited by emihet - 01/28/2019 at 4:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/28/2019 at 7:54pm
POUND the Facebook LIKE BUTTON on emihet's post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/28/2019 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by emihet emihet wrote:

I still don't understand why people focus on a rating number...

I thought it is obvious, and I'm not being sarcastic: for someone who plays a decent amount of tournament matches against good sample of opponents, USATT rating IS a good representation of someone's level. 2000 is just a nice round number and it allows you to say: "I've reached a decent level in TT and I have a quantifiable proof of that".

Sort of like someone setting a goal to run a marathon: actual number of miles, 26.2, is quite random, but it's a reasonably non-trivial goal. Gives you some bragging rights too. Smile  And then you can go beyond just finishing it, by, let's say, trying to qualify for Boston (which feels like a 2500 USATT level to me).

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/28/2019 at 8:20pm
The people recommending not to care about rating points are often shitting their pants about losing their own, j/s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2019 at 10:51am
Anyway OP made clear when I asked, he is aspiring to a level of play that typically represents over 2000 level, not simply the number.  Which makes it much harder, bc there are a lot of ways to hit the number, and only one way he wants to play. 

He is using rating as shorthand for a certain set of skills that would take 2000 words to list out in detail.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2019 at 11:57am
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Anyway OP made clear when I asked, he is aspiring to a level of play that typically represents over 2000 level, not simply the number.  Which makes it much harder, bc there are a lot of ways to hit the number, and only one way he wants to play. 

He is using rating as shorthand for a certain set of skills that would take 2000 words to list out in detail.
isn't that kind of contradicting though? " typically represents 2000" and " a lot of ways to hit the number", "only one way he wants to play" 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2019 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Anyway OP made clear when I asked, he is aspiring to a level of play that typically represents over 2000 level, not simply the number.  Which makes it much harder, bc there are a lot of ways to hit the number, and only one way he wants to play. 

He is using rating as shorthand for a certain set of skills that would take 2000 words to list out in detail.
isn't that kind of contradicting though? " typically represents 2000" and " a lot of ways to hit the number", "only one way he wants to play" 

Key is the word typical.  Most US 2000 players have very similar skill sets (styles).  But at that level there still are many other skill sets (styles) that succeed.  For various reasons as level increases you see fewer and fewer players able to get there with atypical styles.  

Basically I am trying to play a certain style and get to a point where with that style I win 50% of matches with players rated between 2025 and 2075.  The perfect scenario would be to get to that point with a rating of 1995 so I could kick butt in the U2000 events.  

It is not so much that I want to play just this one style.  It is more that I have already invested so much time in training for it that I think a drastic switch would be counter productive.  Posters have made a very valid point that I may be foccusing too much time developing skills needed for advancement well past 2000 and not enough on basic skills needed to get to 2000.  

It could be that what is needed to get to that 50% win percentage is a complete rethink of my style and therefore a complete new training plan.  I am not ready for that switch yet, but I am paying more attention to the possibility than ever before.

Mark





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2019 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Anyway OP made clear when I asked, he is aspiring to a level of play that typically represents over 2000 level, not simply the number.  Which makes it much harder, bc there are a lot of ways to hit the number, and only one way he wants to play. 

He is using rating as shorthand for a certain set of skills that would take 2000 words to list out in detail.
isn't that kind of contradicting though? " typically represents 2000" and " a lot of ways to hit the number", "only one way he wants to play" 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2019 at 2:52pm
Don't agree that there is a typical style for a 2k level of play.

In socal, there are many people over 2k who play sp hitting, lp blocking, etc. You can see this at the westside club facebook page, you will see in the videos of the weekly RR that there are players who are regular winners who are not "typical" loopers.

I would say that the older the players are, the most likely they are to have different styles. There are lots of older players like this at the clubs in the SG Valley. Kids, of course, all try to play like ML.

btw, since you are playing with SP backhand and have stated you cannot do a chiquita BH open or loop due to physical issues, then you are already not your ideal of "typical" in the first place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2019 at 3:03pm
My last post failed, so I'll try one more time.  

What I meant by "typically 2000" is a set of strokes and footwork that if you play that way you will almost certainly be over 2000, or a developing junior on the way there.

For people who started late, or were uncoached or both, and have played a long time with bad habits, it can be easier to try anti, LP, or a "weird" style.  But typically players like that are not over 2000.  So those styles are perfectly legit, but not "typically associated with 2000 level."

So mjamja is giving himself a hard way to go.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2019 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by acpoulos acpoulos wrote:

Play the way you enjoy and play to your strengths. Rating will follow.


I agree. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitigoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2019 at 9:16am
OP: have you considered practicing hiding your serve with your arm, as in the old times?
And of-course you need deception and have a legal version just in case. He Zhi Wen sometimes gets away with it, and similarly your opponents may cut you some slack, assuming you learned this in the 80s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2019 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Originally posted by acpoulos acpoulos wrote:

Play the way you enjoy and play to your strengths. Rating will follow.


I agree. 

This is what I am afraid of Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2019 at 4:03pm
Strength at level x may be a weakness when you play higher level. So continuing to practice a "strength" and not working on weaknesses may lead to stagnation.

For example, there is a player I know who has good long serves for his level, He serves long, fast serves almost 100%. The rest of his game is crap. When he plays higher level players, his long serves are easily countered and his game falls apart because he can't deal with the fast returns.

I call his serve the "fool's gold serve" because it is a strength at one level, but prevents him from improving. By not addressing many weaknesses, he will be forever the same level.

As far as the OP goes, he needs to assess what are the areas to spend time on. Make "strengths" stronger or work on weaknesses? It's not a right or wrong answer. If there are physical limitations on snapping his wrist to generate more service spin, then telling him to work on serving with more spin may not be a good direction.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2019 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

OP: have you considered practicing hiding your serve with your arm, as in the old times?
And of-course you need deception and have a legal version just in case. He Zhi Wen sometimes gets away with it, and similarly your opponents may cut you some slack, assuming you learned this in the 80s.

Translation: Try cheating.  You're old; they might let you get away with it.

Mark, please don't listen to rubbish like this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2019 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

OP: have you considered practicing hiding your serve with your arm, as in the old times?
And of-course you need deception and have a legal version just in case. He Zhi Wen sometimes gets away with it, and similarly your opponents may cut you some slack, assuming you learned this in the 80s.

Translation: Try cheating.  You're old; they might let you get away with it.

Mark, please don't listen to rubbish like this.

You can have pretty deceptive serves with your serves in open view, no need for hiding at all!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2019 at 10:53pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

OP: have you considered practicing hiding your serve with your arm, as in the old times?
And of-course you need deception and have a legal version just in case. He Zhi Wen sometimes gets away with it, and similarly your opponents may cut you some slack, assuming you learned this in the 80s.

Translation: Try cheating.  You're old; they might let you get away with it.

Mark, please don't listen to rubbish like this.

You can have pretty deceptive serves with your serves in open view, no need for hiding at all!

Well, to be fair, advice was explicitly to HIDE serves, so 'Tassie52' does have a point, unless said advice was of a joking kind... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2019 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

OP: have you considered practicing hiding your serve with your arm, as in the old times?
And of-course you need deception and have a legal version just in case. He Zhi Wen sometimes gets away with it, and similarly your opponents may cut you some slack, assuming you learned this in the 80s.

Translation: Try cheating.  You're old; they might let you get away with it.

How soon you guys forget.  I am not cutting the beard until nationals.  By then I should have the "behind the beard serve perfected.   I may even have the "ball lost in the beard block" worked out where they lose sight of the ball in the white background of the beard.

Mark, please don't listen to rubbish like this.
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