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Giving up on 2000

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Lula View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2019 at 3:03pm
I understand that adults do not have organised training and a coach. That is pretty unusual. But i thought alot of clubs had some kind of practice for kids with a coach? i feel it must be difficult for the clubs to survive if they do not have something to earn money on? And if there is a coach for kids maybe the coach can help older players aswell. But of course if the situation is like you describe maybe there are not any coach avaiable at all, and then the best option would be to move. But i think it is easier today to become good without a coach thanks to the internet and all the videos that show technique, so maybe Nextlevel is correct that a coach is not that important and that it is more important to find some good players to play with. But if the size gap is huge, again it would be easier to move. 

Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by Lula Lula wrote:

YoAss. I found that strange. I think this is a real possibility for adult players so i would be surprised if they do not want to start with this and try their best. I do not think they will get a opportunity like this again. I hope they do not waste the opportunity. We will see.

Nextlevel. I know that we do not have the same opinion here, maybe due to different experiences. And it is okay to have different opinions. I still think it is better to have a good coach and play with players below your level. I think you will benefit more from this than having no coach and play with better players.  I still think a player always need to take responsibilty for his own developement. To many times when my students play with worse players they just do not try. If they change the exercises so it will be hard for them and easy for the opponent and adapt the tempo you can still benefit from playing worse playeers. But of course the gap in level can not be too big and a mix would proably be the best.

There is quite a bit of misunderstanding and resulting emotions in this thread simply due to the fact that our good friends from Europe do not understand how TT in the US looks for a lot of posters here, 'mjamja' included.   

I highly suspect 'mjamja' does not have access to coach in his club. To clarify, when people reference 'TT club' in US, it is most likely a school gym or church basement where local players can meet and play for a couple of hours once or twice a week.  That's it. No coaches, no lessons, probably no leagues either. 'mjamja' is likely a best player in there, with a sizable skill gap between him and everyone else.  

Not everyone here is in the same boat, players in CA/NY/NJ/MD are much better off, at least in major metro areas. That's why NextLevel, BRS and others keep saying that he needs to move closer to a major TT area to get regular access to coaches, better players, tournaments and such. 

Yes, it is better to have good coach. What do you do if there is none within 2 hour driving distance? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2019 at 3:38pm
One thing that I'd like to bring up, since it's been mentioned multiple times is the clubs in Germany. Yes there is league play in Germany, but the reason Germany is successful internationally is not because the system is so awesome for everyone. It's the same reason why there are a small number of really good players in the US. They get very good training possibilities with good coaches etc. The normal club looks completely different though. You have smaller clubs that are dying because people don't go to the club anymore. And even "big" clubs like the club I'm in (around 70 members I believe) don't run as smoothly as you'd expect. From those 70 people only 30 can be seen in the hall on one day or so a week. The rest randomly find their way into the hall maybe once a month. A few years back the hall was completely full with all tables taken. It was possible to just go to the club and have someone play with you. But nowadays if you don't arrange something with a person beforehand you most likely wont get to play at all. If you just go into the club without anyone else you'll find people playing together. You won't get your turn, since you didn't arrange something with someone. If you're lucky you'll find someone that is around your level and might actually let you join them. But let's say you're around 2000 and you come into the club without someone, you'll likely only find 2300 playing together until they are done. I just wanted to mention this, so that you don't get a wrong picture from the "great" table tennis situation in Germany.

Edited by Tt Gold - 01/25/2019 at 3:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2019 at 5:37pm
One more thing to consider: how many adult players do you know whose level has really improved? I quit playing for 20 years and almost all the people from back then who still play now are playing at almost the exact same level.  The 1700 players are still 1700, the 2000 players are still playing 2000 and the 2350 people are still 2350.  For whatever reason, once a player levels out as an adult, improving becomes extremely difficult.  It could be your vision, your reflexes, your athletic ability or something else that is holding you back.  Fixing these things requires a lot of effort. 

If you are serious about breaking 2000 and have no one to play, improve your serve.  Practice your serve 1-2 hours a day, everyday.  I can guarantee that your serve is not optimized and not even close to what it could be.  At the club where I coach and play, we  have a 2400 level coach who annihilates 2200 level players 11-2 or 11-3 because they cannot cope with their serve.   We also have a 2800 level player who makes 2300 players look like absolute beginners just from serving. 

If your sever is good, you make the other player lose confidence which elevates all other aspects of your game.  Learning to serve and getting into top shape does not require a practice partner.  Work on those things.  Good luck!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2019 at 6:26pm
I will make a statement contrary and also agreeing with Lightspin.

Adult learners have TONS of potential to improve. And YES, a lot of the immediate improvement can be had on serves. 10 yrs or so back, I was in Iraq as an adult recreational player (although I posted on TT forums just like anyone else.) I was 1400 when I went to Iraq. I was in a remote place and our tiny camp had a cheepo TT table in the IP TELEPHONE ROOM. I would bring a small basket of balls with me, but these balls make so much noise double bouncing on table and floor, I would cut short practice after 3-5 minutes.

9 months of that and after a couple tourneys I was over 1600. That is around 2 levels from no training, no match practice, but only serve practice.

I moved to California a couple years back and IMMEDIATELY dropped to 1800 or below level. In the last 1 year, I moved up to mid 1900s and HOPE to improve enough to be solid 2000s.

I have a player I name Sergey "Scoobie Doo" who I play with/against 2x or so a week. I am also trying real hard to get him to join the TT forums and participate - he has a lot to contribute.

Sometimes we practice something specific, like serve and return, or counter topspins. We play matches where we try to put it all together. EVERY MATCH I play vs Sergey, I measurably improve in several areas - often serve receive, point construction, opening loop, touch, rallying or consistency. Unfortunately, this never transaltes into winning match results. FORTUNATELY, Sergey is also getting better at the same rate. He was low 2000s and now mid 2100s level, poised to crack through 2200 level sometime.

We sharpen each other. ALSO, MyTT member "emihet" has willed me to transition to mostly all wood blades and DYNAMIC Modern Control Oriented rubbers with medium soft sponge. This and hitting with him (he is also Sergey's playing level or better) is really helping me out over time... even if I am not doing full time training hours and hours a week. All the match and doubles reps are really helping my feel for the ball.

I am not the only adult player improving, so that is why I disagree with Lightspin.

On the AGREE with Lightzspin note, I see SO MANY Adult Players not improve. There are so many reasons for this, but it comes down to...

- Not learning the basics of the sport
- Poor fundamentals applied (think of poor stance, poor impact zone control, poor footwork, poor stroke, etc)
- Inappropriate or constantly changing equipment - the Adult EJ
- Not doing what is needed to improve or not getting into a situation to be able to improve

Even some Adults who take YEARS of lessons do not improve. There are reasons for this too.
- Adult doesn't want to improve overall or does not want to put in the work
- Coach is just taking the Adults' money and is effectively a high level hitting partner
- Adult is not really trying to do what coach asks
- Coach is trying to train Adult like the Adult is a kid (Adults will learn differently)

There are many TT Adults who unfortunately are not in a very good TT situation. Often, this is because there is no real TT action near them, or the little TT action that is near them, is a 1-2 times a week place where mostly recreational players gather and bunt the ball around or play only matches.

How can anyone improve, even against equal of better players if there is only one place to play 1-2 times a week with so many people there for the few tables available, that one must play only matches, get off table after 3 wins, and must wait 30-45 minutes just to get on a table, then the place closes?

Almost NO ONE can improve much in those conditions... and those conditions represent the GREAT MAJORITY of USA Table Tennis action... often people must drive 1-3 hours just to get THAT action.

That is probably the biggest reason why most US Adults do not improve in Table Tennis.

I was lucky that I got to be assigned to Korea for 4 years, speak great Korean, and was able to join a club 5 minutes walk from my apartment and get at least SOME kind of foundation for footwork and basic rally play. Majority of US Adult players will NEVER get that chance unless they move to a TT action Hot Spot.

Just like Job Careers, I see SO MANY people be unwilling to move to a better opportunity. Sure, moving is a financial risk, but it is sometimes criminally stupid to stay in the same place all your life and limit your opportunities. It could also be criminally stupid to leave a place you live forever and know people and are comfortable.

So... it isn't so easy or simple as telling someone just to relocate. Everyone doesn't work like that.

Mark is making MANY great opportunities for himself using what he has. He can get there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2019 at 6:55pm
BH-Man I should have been clearer.  Adults have a tremendous ability to improve.  I coach many adults and see them make impressive strides.  However, once a player has trained relatively hard, put in a lot of time and remained at the same level for a few years, improving is going to be incredibly difficult.  Something drastic has to change to break out of their normal routines.  The easiest thing for anyone to do, especially if they have no one to play with, is to practice their serve a few hours a day.  The OP could get into phenomenal shape and do vision exercises as well if they have no one to play with.

In your case, and other adults, you are constantly improving and have not plateaued.  So the sky is the limit for you.  I hope the OP can reach their goal.  However the OP must realize that almost every player feels the same way as he does regardless of their level.  My 2400 friends wonder why they can't be 2600.  The 2800 people wonder why they can't beat the top 50 guys in the world.  FZD probably wonders what he has to do to beat Ma Long.  The only answer is to keep practicing in an intelligent manner and see what happens. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2019 at 8:23pm
Mark can get to 2000 if he's willing to sacrifice his quality of life.  He has table tennis, hiking kayaking, etc. that keeps him busy.  His post about kayaking with the dolphins can't be matched if he moves to a place that can get him to 2000.  It's not a trade I'd be willing to make.

If I wanted to regularly drive 4 hours round trip to play with BH-Man and his friends I might get to 2000, but I'll take my quality of life over 2000.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2019 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

The only answer is to keep practicing in an intelligent manner and see what happens. 


You could pretty much shut the forum down now and just put this sentence up on the home page. Every thread is eventually going to come back to this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2019 at 3:51am
Mr BH-Man, what rubbers are you currently using?

(And BRS, I reckon THAT is actually the question to which all threads eventually come back to ;) )
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2019 at 12:51pm
I get along fine with just about any medium soft sponged max rubber on BH. Karis M, then Moristo, then Accuda S3... or a ton others as long as the sponge is right. 

emihet has me using dynamic rubbers on FH... different versions of Vega or Sigma mostly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/28/2019 at 1:14pm
What do you think about having only around 1400-1800 level people mainly to train with, but also having access to a high-end robot and table to practice on? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickhrdlicka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/28/2019 at 2:51pm
You are describing my situation. And while I admit that serve receives and blocking against very high-quality loops is difficult to practice, I think one can go a very long way towards 2000 and beyond with 1400-1800 level players + robot. One has to be creative and 'use' practice partners for what they are best at. For example, I sometimes practice with a 900-level 75-yr old player. He has a pretty good FH drive but poor mobility --> I play full table BH against him playing into his FH. Against others, I play handicap matches (1 point per 75 point difference), which forces consistency. Yet others again, I teach how to return my serves, resulting in closer matches. Combine this with footwork drills on the Newgy, and serve practice and 2k+ is possible. I think, however, it is difficult to breach 2300 in such an environment. 
Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69419&title=feedback-patrickhrdlicka

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/28/2019 at 4:09pm
I still don't understand why people focus on a rating number...but i guess i grew up playing without a rating system...Mark i have seen you play and played against you in doubles when you visited; and there are clear strengths and weaknesses in your game...First you need to be clear and honest with yourself what these are and have a vision built on this reality to improve.  Robots, partners, drills, ways of playing lower players will help...As long as you find this sweet spot of ease where it is easy to beat an 1800 level player you don't know the truth of your game and it is hard to have an honest vision of where your game may end up...most people have an illusion in their mind that they are better then they really are, some people think they are worse then they really are...and very few know the true reality of their level...that is not to say that you should not dream or have the confidence of reaching higher levels of play....the reality is that up to about 2250 in the US you don't need to play a weaker pro level like style of table tennis to achieve...you have a good foundation, don't give up, find your reality work on the weaknesses, architect your game to maximize your strengths, and gage improving according to the ability you have!  BH-man wants to hit like Ma Long but sometimes lacks the abilityWink it feels good when he makes one shot out of 8-9, but may loose 11-3 easily...but then again when he plays within himself he looks like a 1950 level player not Ma Long and may beat the same person 11-9 big turnaround...
My advice is that 90% is improving control, placement, speed, spin, strategy, movement, reading your opponent's game, and spin awareness of your current game and 10% of the time push the limit and try to play outside of your comfort zone...this is practical advice for you to take baby steps in moving forward and improving...don't worry about the rating, that will come...an experienced player or coach who is looking from the outside and sees your game is also a good commodity to have and talk to from time to time about your vision for your game and keep you accountable to it in an honest and constructive way...I will make a claim that if  one masters the very basic fundamentals of table tennis it goes a long way...the length of that way is different from person to person, due to their talent, hard work or lack of, mental aspect, athletic ability, wisdom, self-control and confidence...have fun and keep focused on your development


Edited by emihet - 01/28/2019 at 4:13pm
301, Viscaria, VR, Clipper Wood
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/28/2019 at 7:54pm
POUND the Facebook LIKE BUTTON on emihet's post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/28/2019 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by emihet emihet wrote:

I still don't understand why people focus on a rating number...

I thought it is obvious, and I'm not being sarcastic: for someone who plays a decent amount of tournament matches against good sample of opponents, USATT rating IS a good representation of someone's level. 2000 is just a nice round number and it allows you to say: "I've reached a decent level in TT and I have a quantifiable proof of that".

Sort of like someone setting a goal to run a marathon: actual number of miles, 26.2, is quite random, but it's a reasonably non-trivial goal. Gives you some bragging rights too. Smile  And then you can go beyond just finishing it, by, let's say, trying to qualify for Boston (which feels like a 2500 USATT level to me).

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/28/2019 at 8:20pm
The people recommending not to care about rating points are often shitting their pants about losing their own, j/s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2019 at 10:51am
Anyway OP made clear when I asked, he is aspiring to a level of play that typically represents over 2000 level, not simply the number.  Which makes it much harder, bc there are a lot of ways to hit the number, and only one way he wants to play. 

He is using rating as shorthand for a certain set of skills that would take 2000 words to list out in detail.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2019 at 11:57am
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Anyway OP made clear when I asked, he is aspiring to a level of play that typically represents over 2000 level, not simply the number.  Which makes it much harder, bc there are a lot of ways to hit the number, and only one way he wants to play. 

He is using rating as shorthand for a certain set of skills that would take 2000 words to list out in detail.
isn't that kind of contradicting though? " typically represents 2000" and " a lot of ways to hit the number", "only one way he wants to play" 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2019 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Anyway OP made clear when I asked, he is aspiring to a level of play that typically represents over 2000 level, not simply the number.  Which makes it much harder, bc there are a lot of ways to hit the number, and only one way he wants to play. 

He is using rating as shorthand for a certain set of skills that would take 2000 words to list out in detail.
isn't that kind of contradicting though? " typically represents 2000" and " a lot of ways to hit the number", "only one way he wants to play" 

Key is the word typical.  Most US 2000 players have very similar skill sets (styles).  But at that level there still are many other skill sets (styles) that succeed.  For various reasons as level increases you see fewer and fewer players able to get there with atypical styles.  

Basically I am trying to play a certain style and get to a point where with that style I win 50% of matches with players rated between 2025 and 2075.  The perfect scenario would be to get to that point with a rating of 1995 so I could kick butt in the U2000 events.  

It is not so much that I want to play just this one style.  It is more that I have already invested so much time in training for it that I think a drastic switch would be counter productive.  Posters have made a very valid point that I may be foccusing too much time developing skills needed for advancement well past 2000 and not enough on basic skills needed to get to 2000.  

It could be that what is needed to get to that 50% win percentage is a complete rethink of my style and therefore a complete new training plan.  I am not ready for that switch yet, but I am paying more attention to the possibility than ever before.

Mark





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2019 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Anyway OP made clear when I asked, he is aspiring to a level of play that typically represents over 2000 level, not simply the number.  Which makes it much harder, bc there are a lot of ways to hit the number, and only one way he wants to play. 

He is using rating as shorthand for a certain set of skills that would take 2000 words to list out in detail.
isn't that kind of contradicting though? " typically represents 2000" and " a lot of ways to hit the number", "only one way he wants to play" 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2019 at 2:52pm
Don't agree that there is a typical style for a 2k level of play.

In socal, there are many people over 2k who play sp hitting, lp blocking, etc. You can see this at the westside club facebook page, you will see in the videos of the weekly RR that there are players who are regular winners who are not "typical" loopers.

I would say that the older the players are, the most likely they are to have different styles. There are lots of older players like this at the clubs in the SG Valley. Kids, of course, all try to play like ML.

btw, since you are playing with SP backhand and have stated you cannot do a chiquita BH open or loop due to physical issues, then you are already not your ideal of "typical" in the first place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2019 at 3:03pm
My last post failed, so I'll try one more time.  

What I meant by "typically 2000" is a set of strokes and footwork that if you play that way you will almost certainly be over 2000, or a developing junior on the way there.

For people who started late, or were uncoached or both, and have played a long time with bad habits, it can be easier to try anti, LP, or a "weird" style.  But typically players like that are not over 2000.  So those styles are perfectly legit, but not "typically associated with 2000 level."

So mjamja is giving himself a hard way to go.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acpoulos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2019 at 3:13pm
Play the way you enjoy and play to your strengths. Rating will follow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2019 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by acpoulos acpoulos wrote:

Play the way you enjoy and play to your strengths. Rating will follow.


I agree. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitigoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2019 at 9:16am
OP: have you considered practicing hiding your serve with your arm, as in the old times?
And of-course you need deception and have a legal version just in case. He Zhi Wen sometimes gets away with it, and similarly your opponents may cut you some slack, assuming you learned this in the 80s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2019 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Originally posted by acpoulos acpoulos wrote:

Play the way you enjoy and play to your strengths. Rating will follow.


I agree. 

This is what I am afraid of Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2019 at 4:03pm
Strength at level x may be a weakness when you play higher level. So continuing to practice a "strength" and not working on weaknesses may lead to stagnation.

For example, there is a player I know who has good long serves for his level, He serves long, fast serves almost 100%. The rest of his game is crap. When he plays higher level players, his long serves are easily countered and his game falls apart because he can't deal with the fast returns.

I call his serve the "fool's gold serve" because it is a strength at one level, but prevents him from improving. By not addressing many weaknesses, he will be forever the same level.

As far as the OP goes, he needs to assess what are the areas to spend time on. Make "strengths" stronger or work on weaknesses? It's not a right or wrong answer. If there are physical limitations on snapping his wrist to generate more service spin, then telling him to work on serving with more spin may not be a good direction.



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Tassie52 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2019 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

OP: have you considered practicing hiding your serve with your arm, as in the old times?
And of-course you need deception and have a legal version just in case. He Zhi Wen sometimes gets away with it, and similarly your opponents may cut you some slack, assuming you learned this in the 80s.

Translation: Try cheating.  You're old; they might let you get away with it.

Mark, please don't listen to rubbish like this.
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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2019 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

OP: have you considered practicing hiding your serve with your arm, as in the old times?
And of-course you need deception and have a legal version just in case. He Zhi Wen sometimes gets away with it, and similarly your opponents may cut you some slack, assuming you learned this in the 80s.

Translation: Try cheating.  You're old; they might let you get away with it.

Mark, please don't listen to rubbish like this.

You can have pretty deceptive serves with your serves in open view, no need for hiding at all!
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pgpg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2019 at 10:53pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

OP: have you considered practicing hiding your serve with your arm, as in the old times?
And of-course you need deception and have a legal version just in case. He Zhi Wen sometimes gets away with it, and similarly your opponents may cut you some slack, assuming you learned this in the 80s.

Translation: Try cheating.  You're old; they might let you get away with it.

Mark, please don't listen to rubbish like this.

You can have pretty deceptive serves with your serves in open view, no need for hiding at all!

Well, to be fair, advice was explicitly to HIDE serves, so 'Tassie52' does have a point, unless said advice was of a joking kind... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2019 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

OP: have you considered practicing hiding your serve with your arm, as in the old times?
And of-course you need deception and have a legal version just in case. He Zhi Wen sometimes gets away with it, and similarly your opponents may cut you some slack, assuming you learned this in the 80s.

Translation: Try cheating.  You're old; they might let you get away with it.

How soon you guys forget.  I am not cutting the beard until nationals.  By then I should have the "behind the beard serve perfected.   I may even have the "ball lost in the beard block" worked out where they lose sight of the ball in the white background of the beard.

Mark, please don't listen to rubbish like this.
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