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Have you ever heard of this in a tournament?

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ericd937 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07/04/2020 at 4:25am
Today I came to a small doubles tournament in Saigon. I was told that that all matches would be best of 3 games in the qualifying round, but that wasn't what happened. They had 3 out of 4 groups playing 3 games per match in the first round and one group playing 5 games per match. Do you guys think that is fair? I told the tournament director all matches in the first round need to be either 3 games or 5 games in the first round, but they didn't agree. We might as well play chess in one group and basketball in the other group and meet in the final round to play darts. A 3 game match and a 5 game match are two completely different types of matches. 

What would you guys do? It seems quite unfair to me. I can't even learn the other players until at least 1 or 2 games and I often come back after being down 2-0 or 2-1. I usually refuse 3 game matches in the first place, but decided to join this tournament thinking it would be fair for every team. What do you guys think? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/04/2020 at 9:25am
Best of 3 is kinda bullshit tbh, you might as well just decide the match over a coin toss... Too hard to adjust in time :(

Best of 5 is kinda standard for tournaments. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/04/2020 at 11:58am
Originally posted by ericd937 ericd937 wrote:

Today I came to a small doubles tournament in Saigon. I was told that that all matches would be best of 3 games in the qualifying round, but that wasn't what happened. They had 3 out of 4 groups playing 3 games per match in the first round and one group playing 5 games per match. Do you guys think that is fair? I told the tournament director all matches in the first round need to be either 3 games or 5 games in the first round, but they didn't agree. We might as well play chess in one group and basketball in the other group and meet in the final round to play darts. A 3 game match and a 5 game match are two completely different types of matches. 

What would you guys do? It seems quite unfair to me. I can't even learn the other players until at least 1 or 2 games and I often come back after being down 2-0 or 2-1. I usually refuse 3 game matches in the first place, but decided to join this tournament thinking it would be fair for every team. What do you guys think? 


Did the group that played best of 5 matches have less players?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/04/2020 at 12:34pm
The group had 1 less team, but they could have restructured the groups in order make all the groups have an even number of teams. I'm pretty sure what happened was that they added an extra group after the tournament was already full because they wanted to make more money, then they were too lazy to redo the entire draw. It was a doubles tournament. Anyhow group size is irrelevant. All matches in the first round should be the same amount of games. They wanted me to play a 3 game match and then sit and watch others play 5 game matches. It's not a fair way to run a tournament. To be honest, that's a jank ass way to run a tournament. Could you imagine if the NCAA ran a March Madness tournament and decided 1/4th of the teams were going to play a full game, but the 3/4 of the teams were only going to play half of a game? It would never happen. 

Edited by ericd937 - 07/04/2020 at 12:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/04/2020 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Best of 3 is kinda bullshit tbh, you might as well just decide the match over a coin toss... Too hard to adjust in time :(

Best of 5 is kinda standard for tournaments. 

In Korean amateur TT, many of the singles in group stage are best 2 of 3 matches and 2 players advance out of 3-4 player groups. So, if you are any good within your division, the group stage is just a warnm-up.

Knockout stages are usually best 3 of 5.

Doubles groups work the same way, often 3 doubles teams per group and 2 advance.

It works for them as often, they run one-day tourneys with 5 events (Mens/Womens singles, Mens/Womens Doubles, team event) in a hall with 24 tables and hundreds of players in hte tourney... there is zero way they can finish a tourney in one day if group stage is best 3 of 5... that would add another 3-4 hours to the tourney and most of these tourneys have teams finals finishing at 8 or 10 PM when tourney started at 7 or 8 AM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/04/2020 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Best of 3 is kinda bullshit tbh, you might as well just decide the match over a coin toss... Too hard to adjust in time :(

Best of 5 is kinda standard for tournaments. 

In Korean amateur TT, many of the singles in group stage are best 2 of 3 matches and 2 players advance out of 3-4 player groups. So, if you are any good within your division, the group stage is just a warnm-up.

Knockout stages are usually best 3 of 5.

Doubles groups work the same way, often 3 doubles teams per group and 2 advance.

It works for them as often, they run one-day tourneys with 5 events (Mens/Womens singles, Mens/Womens Doubles, team event) in a hall with 24 tables and hundreds of players in hte tourney... there is zero way they can finish a tourney in one day if group stage is best 3 of 5... that would add another 3-4 hours to the tourney and most of these tourneys have teams finals finishing at 8 or 10 PM when tourney started at 7 or 8 AM.

Yes, but every match in that stage is best of 3. Right? You can't have some of the matches in the qualifying round be bet of 3 and then let others play best of 5 in the same round. Everyone should play the same amount of games per match in each round. Otherwise its not fair. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/04/2020 at 11:17pm
If this is a small unofficial tournament, I'd be okay with it because if the group has less players, they'll be playing less games than everyone else. This way they get a more balanced amount of game time. Ideally, they would make everyone in the same bracket play the same style of match though (like best 2 of 3 or 3 of 5).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/05/2020 at 2:35am
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

If this is a small unofficial tournament, I'd be okay with it because if the group has less players, they'll be playing less games than everyone else. This way they get a more balanced amount of game time. Ideally, they would make everyone in the same bracket play the same style of match though (like best 2 of 3 or 3 of 5).

So the group that was playing 5 games per match only had 4 teams. The groups the were playing 3 games per match had 5 teams. The team playing best of five still likely gets more games total in the first round. 

4 team group plays three matches in the first round. 
If matches go three games. 3x3 =9
If matches go five games    3x5 =15

5 team group plays 4 matches in the first round (but only best of 3)
If matches go 2 games 2x4 = 8 
If matches go 3 games 3x4 =12

So, even with one less match the group playing 5 games per match will likely play more. Lets not forget all of the additional advantages which I previously mentioned of playing five games per match. 

****BUT, THIS IS THE EVEN MORE ANNOYING PART**
Our group had to share a table with a group who was playing 5 games per match while we only played 3 games per match. So after we played our short 15 minute match, we had to sit and wait forever while the other group played a 30 minute match. Also, because there were so many teams per table they only let you warm up for 1 minute. 1 minute total for 4 players to warm up. lol How can you even get into a playing rhythm????  Anyhow, I didn't continue the tournament. I just asked for my money back and left. Not wasting my time with that crap. 



Edited by ericd937 - 07/05/2020 at 2:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/05/2020 at 4:47am
I can understand why. I do better at best of 5s as well. I guess I'm a little more carefree about these things. For me I just want to play matches. I would be a little sad if say my group had less people because that means I'd be playing 1 less match. Maybe on average the bo5 might have more games even with 1 less person, but it would likely be a lot less if it was bo3s as well.

I guess being in rural Japan, all the tournaments I've been to are usually a little more casual. So changes like that happen quite often.

At least now you know to avoid that particular tournament :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/05/2020 at 8:39am
I feel a bit sorry for Eric's doubles partner who went all that way and didn't get to play at all.Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote penholderxxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/05/2020 at 10:13am
Don't mind asking, was there a prospectus for the tournament ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/05/2020 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

I feel a bit sorry for Eric's doubles partner who went all that way and didn't get to play at all.Tongue


He was actually able to find another partner. They got a medal. It looked like 3rd place in the photo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/05/2020 at 2:39pm
Dude, complaining about a bogus tournament to guys who mostly haven't seen the inside of a club even once since March -- you aren't gonna get that much sympathy. 
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