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How many varieties of seamless balls are there??? |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Posted: 06/01/2016 at 2:10pm |
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Many different brands now market seamless balls, such as XSF, Nexy, Yinhe, Stag, Kingnik, Joola, Tibhar, Palio, Xiom, just to name a few. Our assumption all along has been that these are all made in one factory, and are basically rebranded XSF balls, and are essentially identical.
Lately though, there have been indications that XSF in particular has had a decline in quality control, and some other people are convinced that different brands of seamless balls play at least somewhat differently (for example Nexy vs XSF). So, based on the Yinhe s40+ thread, I did some googling this morning and now I wonder if these things are made in more than one place, and maybe if this can explain some variability? Why? 1. Shanghai Minkow, who make seamless balls, Kingnik being the "house label", is located in Shanghai. Here is their website, which indicates that they clearly have manufacturing capabilities for seamless and seamed balls and where they specifically state that they are the OEM for many other brands: http://www.minkow.com.cn/ 2. But Guangzhou Hefu Sports Equipment Company, who make XSF balls, is located in the Panyu district of the city of Guangzhou (the capital Guangdong province, in South China not too far from Hong Kong). This is very far (~ 1,500 km) from Shanghai. The only English language web presence for Guangzhou Hefu related to sports equipment seems limited to sites about import transactions for seamless balls into the US, such as this one: http://en.52wmb.com/s-guangzhou_hefu_sport_eqiupment/8066705 The only thing I could learn from clicking some of the links on that site is that Guangzhou Hefu exports balls to the US through the port of Newark, and that they created a company in the US called Hitoss LLC (High Toss, get it, the most distinguishing feature of Mr. Xu Shaofa when he was a player in the 1970s) to protect their trademark etc. XSF has a website in English that mentions their balls, and Mr. Xu Shaofa himself, but says nothing about where they make the balls, and they never mention Guangzhou Hefu. However, a recent ITTF article that Smackman found did mention that Guangzhou Hefu is Mr. Xu Shaofa's company. http://www.ittf.com/_front_Page/ittf_full_story1.asp?ID=44473&Category=s_club&Competition_ID=& So what does it all mean? Are there now two factories making these balls? Certainly it seems possible by this time that the necessary machines to make seamless balls could be in more than one place, but could this explain differences in ball quality that we seem to see with XSF these days? Can this explain maybe how different materials could be used at different places? The one thing that makes no sense to me is that you would make the balls in Shanghai but then export them out of Guangzhou (since 2011 the Port of Shanghai is currently the world's busiest container port). So I am leaning towards the idea that seamless balls are now made in more than one place. I don't know the answers to the questions this all raises, and my guess is that they can only come from someone who can speak and read Chinese. Maybe zeio can figure it out. Also I wonder if people who have had experiences with multiple brands of seamless balls think there are systematic differences? |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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Maybe - or maybe we have it all wrong and Minkow doesn't make seamless balls at all and merely packages and brands balls made by Guangzhou Hefu Sports Equipment Company?
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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VictorK
Silver Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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@Baal - if you look at Minkow's website in the Products section (http://www.minkow.com.cn/Table-tennis-series), you will see that they are making few different types of Kingnik seamless poly balls: 3*; Premium 3*; 1*; 1* ABS ... which would indicate to me that multiple ball types can be, and are, manufactured in one facility.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Possible, but then again, why would you need to ship things through Shanghai if you are making the balls in Guangzhou? |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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From what I read in a promotional article of the seamless ball whose author was none other than Chen Zhijie, marketing director of Yinhe, Xu Shaofa's daughter registered the US version of the trademark(Xushaofa Sports) in the US, so it is reasonable to assume her daughter is in charge of the US region. Assuming that is true, I suspect sssandy is her handle on the various English-speaking forums. And judging from her response, it is possible DHS/DFish have a hand in the Minkow factory thing to sabotage them?
Guangzhou Hefu Sport Equipment Company, or 广州合斌体育用品有限公司 in Chinese, can be traced back to 2013, roughly when DHS/DFish and Zhang Huilun had a run-in over some conflicts of interest, and the latter turned to Palio/Xushaofa, who invested in new machinery out of their own pocket. At that time, DHS/DFish already had working prototypes, so again, it would not be out of the blue to assume they got hold of the technology and the machinery and decided to sell them off to some knockoff factories like Minkow to recoup some of their investment?
Edited by zeio - 06/01/2016 at 4:12pm |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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My understanding - from what I read on forums - was that Minkow is the factory/production equipment owner and XSF is the technology/patent owner. They probably have divvied up the rights, that is, XSF has allowed them (licensed them) to also brand and sell seamless balls made at their factory. Minkow started also producing balls for Yinhe, Nexy etc and then decided to come out with their own brand (Kingnik). Naturally they all have to pay some fees to the patent owners, but Minkow has lower overhead costs and can therefore allow themselves to have a bit more stringent quality control which is why in the beginning Kingnik balls were pretty darn good. However it seems that lately all seamless brands have suffered some PR problems - too many eggy balls, sturdiness is lower than before etc. Maybe the reason is that they are getting a bit greedier than before, so they started to cut corners here, there and everywhere - which led to compromising quality of the product... |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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It looks like there are some connections between DHS and Minkow.
It sounds like Minkow is a knockoff, well, a contract manufacturer.
Edited by zeio - 06/01/2016 at 4:52pm |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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zeio, I remember those threads from 2014 but I had forgotten how heated ssandy got about the Minkow plant. Definitely there is some bad blood there. Haven't seen her around any forums in awhile, perhaps now that their products have more or less caught on she doesn't feel the need.
I still suspect there may be more than one factory now. zeio, that is another interesting find about DHS/Minkow connection in a different sport. |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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In case you don't know, there was a massive, and I mean really massive, knock-off incident for the Hurricane Long 5 in China last year. There is no way to tell a knock-off from an authentic one. Everything looks identical, serial number, data card, blade quality, packaging, you name it. Though later on, they noticed a set pattern in the serial number and values on the data card. You have to send the blade to the headquarter for a destructive test to decide if it is real or not(from the gluing). People suspected some rogue DHS employees were behind the whole thing. DHS would not comment on it. Could it be Minkow? I don't know. Just throwing it out there.
Edited by zeio - 06/01/2016 at 4:47pm |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Ya, sssandy confirmed the bad blood part. From the reply, it looks like they have no way to stop Minkow.
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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You can find DHS balls being listed as a Minkow offering on this trade website: That suggests a pretty strong connection.
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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That thread was pretty interesting, I recall it well. She also has no patience for a certain Russian poster. Yes. I did not know about the massive knock-off scandal affecting DHS. |
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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sssandy that's her I assume that because of the fact she was directed to Minkow selling Xu shaofu balls on Chinese websites, she had something to do with them not withdrawing Xu Shaofu balls
and they now only advertise the Kingnik brand This is better than a soap
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