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ikellea View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03/02/2023 at 12:27pm
Hi,  I am not sure the correct wording of the term for "inducing your opponent to pop the ball, or do high slow pushes".  I was reading a forum in 2009 and someone posted: "I've finally gotten to the point where I can consistently induce my opponents to pop the ball up and/or send back some fairly slowish, high pushes.".  They said this leads to easy smash kills or loop kills.  He/she didn't really explain further other than stating that.  I am wondering if there is a particular serve that will help create this sort of situation? Also, is there any way to create this sort of situation in a rally?  

Edited by ikellea - 03/02/2023 at 12:28pm
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zeio View Drop Down
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Most commonly by using spin/no-spin serve combination.

Typically, you serve a medium to heavy backspin ball on your first service, then follow up with a no-spin serve. The idea is to make the difference of the two serves big enough so that your opponent misjudges the amount of spin.

It is not limited to service and can be applied on all types of shots. Look up looper vs chopper matches. The chopper often uses spin/no-spin pushes and chops to induce pop-ups from the looper.

Edited by zeio - 03/02/2023 at 12:57pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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blahness View Drop Down
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The other way is sidetopspin serves, ppl pop that up all the time too. 
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Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

The other way is sidetopspin serves, ppl pop that up all the time too. 

That's actually the primary way - side topspin serves designed to look like backspin serves.  The no-spin serves designed to look like backspin serves are the second.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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blahness View Drop Down
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But really once you go a bit higher level, ppl will read the spin and stop popping them up so you're back to square one LOL

You also mentioned "in a rally" - one of the most common ways to cause ppl to pop things up for easy kills is a real high quality spin rich opening topspin loop. That is usually even more effective than sidetopspin serves in terms of getting ppl to pop those :)


Edited by blahness - 03/02/2023 at 7:02pm
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FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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zeio View Drop Down
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If the other player is new to the sport, even a topspin serve works.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

But really once you go a bit higher level, ppl will read the spin and stop popping them up so you're back to square one LOL

You also mentioned "in a rally" - one of the most common ways to cause ppl to pop things up for easy kills is a real high quality spin rich opening topspin loop. That is usually even more effective than sidetopspin serves in terms of getting ppl to pop those :)

I can find video where Ma Long gets Zhang Jike to pop up short topspin, everything is relative to level of the players playing each other.

https://youtu.be/CsujsROPXE4?t=31
https://youtu.be/CsujsROPXE4?t=156

When Hao Shuai played the NA Teams in 2013 I think, one of the hilarious things was watching 2500+ players looking like they had no clue on serve return.  The story was that the teammates of Hao Shuai on the university team he came with had to be told what Hao Shuai was serving in practice for the drill to go smoothly.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

But really once you go a bit higher level, ppl will read the spin and stop popping them up so you're back to square one LOL

You also mentioned "in a rally" - one of the most common ways to cause ppl to pop things up for easy kills is a real high quality spin rich opening topspin loop. That is usually even more effective than sidetopspin serves in terms of getting ppl to pop those :)

I can find video where Ma Long gets Zhang Jike to pop up short topspin, everything is relative to level of the players playing each other.

https://youtu.be/CsujsROPXE4?t=31
https://youtu.be/CsujsROPXE4?t=156

When Hao Shuai played the NA Teams in 2013 I think, one of the hilarious things was watching 2500+ players looking like they had no clue on serve return.  The story was that the teammates of Hao Shuai on the university team he came with had to be told what Hao Shuai was serving in practice for the drill to go smoothly.

Yep if you have good disguised serves ppl are gonna pop the sidetopspin serves. 

Tbh I also serve with full grip like Hao Shuai - he definitely is one of the best servers on the circuit. I think that has now been usurped by Wang Chuqin.
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Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Most commonly by using spin/no-spin serve combination.

Typically, you serve a medium to heavy backspin ball on your first service, then follow up with a no-spin serve. The idea is to make the difference of the two serves big enough so that your opponent misjudges the amount of spin.

It is not limited to service and can be applied on all types of shots. Look up looper vs chopper matches. The chopper often uses spin/no-spin pushes and chops to induce pop-ups from the looper.

Is there a particular reason backspin is used?  Also, should the serve be short or deep to the opponents side?  

I am a bit confused on the looper vs chopper example.  Does the chopper use these spin/no spin pushes to create setup finishes against the looper?  or is the looper doing this to finish points against the chopper?
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Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Most commonly by using spin/no-spin serve combination.

Typically, you serve a medium to heavy backspin ball on your first service, then follow up with a no-spin serve. The idea is to make the difference of the two serves big enough so that your opponent misjudges the amount of spin.

It is not limited to service and can be applied on all types of shots. Look up looper vs chopper matches. The chopper often uses spin/no-spin pushes and chops to induce pop-ups from the looper.
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ikellea View Drop Down
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Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

The other way is sidetopspin serves, ppl pop that up all the time too. 

Is this sort of a pendulum serve with more top spin?
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ikellea View Drop Down
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Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

But really once you go a bit higher level, ppl will read the spin and stop popping them up so you're back to square one LOL

You also mentioned "in a rally" - one of the most common ways to cause ppl to pop things up for easy kills is a real high quality spin rich opening topspin loop. That is usually even more effective than sidetopspin serves in terms of getting ppl to pop those :)

Will try this. is this because top spin causes the ball to go up while underspin causes the ball to go down?
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blahness View Drop Down
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Originally posted by ikellea ikellea wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

The other way is sidetopspin serves, ppl pop that up all the time too. 

Is this sort of a pendulum serve with more top spin?

Yes...
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FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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blahness View Drop Down
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Originally posted by ikellea ikellea wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

But really once you go a bit higher level, ppl will read the spin and stop popping them up so you're back to square one LOL

You also mentioned "in a rally" - one of the most common ways to cause ppl to pop things up for easy kills is a real high quality spin rich opening topspin loop. That is usually even more effective than sidetopspin serves in terms of getting ppl to pop those :)

Will try this. is this because top spin causes the ball to go up while underspin causes the ball to go down?

Yes to this too....
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FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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