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In Pain. Need tips

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    Posted: 05/02/2011 at 12:23pm
Ok so I played 4 hours of TT last night. I tried real hard to take some advice from people and stay lower with knees more bent.
But now this morning I have found my Thighs, calf's and ankles are hurting which isnt a big surprise BUT my Knees are hurting... Is this normal? because when I used to train long ago the coach used to be surprised and said I might have bad knees. Really? coz thats not good.

Any tips on stuff I can do at home without weights to increase my leg strength and more importantly knee strength? 

Thanks


Edited by Ndragon88 - 05/02/2011 at 12:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/02/2011 at 12:47pm
you need to get that knee brace/strap....could be helpful. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ckm423 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/02/2011 at 1:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOOPMEISTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/02/2011 at 1:11pm
ride a bike.

you also need to make sure you are warmed up before beginning intensive training. Jog, jump rope, stretch, etc. to warm up before playing TT.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ndragon88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/02/2011 at 4:27pm
Thanks guys
What about these? I used to do these so I might start again

I stretch before I play but I never warm up any more. Perhaps I need to start doing that.
As for a knee brace/strap. Really? I actually think they look kinda cool so I wouldn't mine too much lol. But which one do I get?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/02/2011 at 4:36pm
i wouldn't suggest it but then again i'm not a personal trainer. i just feel like it's going to stress out your knees for no good reason. the whole point of the wall sit is to work your quads. i defer to the other forum members for advice on this matter =).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote racquetsforsale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/02/2011 at 9:42pm
If you have flat feet, you should see a podiatrist regarding whether you need custom orthotics. Don't go riding your bike or use the stairmaster until you get a diagnosis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pongz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 12:03am
Originally posted by Ndragon88 Ndragon88 wrote:

Ok so I played 4 hours of TT last night. I tried real hard to take some advice from people and stay lower with knees more bent.
But now this morning I have found my Thighs, calf's and ankles are hurting which isnt a big surprise BUT my Knees are hurting... Is this normal? because when I used to train long ago the coach used to be surprised and said I might have bad knees. Really? coz thats not good.

Any tips on stuff I can do at home without weights to increase my leg strength and more importantly knee strength? 

Thanks
 
Hi Ndragon88, Firstly, if you don't mind me asking, what is your age?.. the reason I asked is because the age factor is of course important... If you are like me 37, whatever you do.. the knee just can't keep up with 4 hours of continous intense training.
 
Secondly, I have noticed that I got knee pain after 2+ hours of playing when I use my table tennis mizuno shoe and none when I use my badminton yonex shoe. So in my opinion the yonex shoe has a better cushion for ankle and knee. So this is one thing you could consider as well.
 
If I were you, I will take a great care with my knee.. imho, once you have a bad knee... that's it for tt... so yach be careful, mate... don't play tt while you are still in pain... let your knee recover first...  
 
Cheers 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vassily Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 1:07am
Those yonex badminton shoes are amazing. Love them. They are quite cushiony because of the jumping badminton players do, and yet have quite a thin fast sole. Theres some kind of hard carbon-fibre-plastic I think? plate in the sole, which helps keep the sole from being mushy.

Is it both knees or one knee? It used to always be left knee for me. But im ok now.


Edited by Vassily - 05/03/2011 at 1:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cls2222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 1:19am
Originally posted by LOOPMEISTER LOOPMEISTER wrote:

ride a bike.

you also need to make sure you are warmed up before beginning intensive training. Jog, jump rope, stretch, etc. to warm up before playing TT.




Riding a bike is possibly the worst exercise to improve knee joints. Cyclists are the most prone athletes to joint pain and osteoporosis because the muscles take calcium and other minerals from the bones and joints in order to enable the muscle contraction, which is why cyclists need a lot of salt and calcium. Most cyclists also tend to jog and do resistance training after they cycle to improve joint strength. I know because I used to cycle 300 miles a week before I quit to play ping pong full-time. Cycling really improved my endurance, as I was able to go through 4-5 hour sessions without giving out, but I never had the speed necessary to play FH all over the table. I had real bad problems with my knees after those long sessions as well because I had weak knee joints due to cycling. Jogging is a very good exercise to both improve joint strength, especially for rather tall people (NDragon), and endurance to go through long training sessions. Jump rope exercises are quite possibly the best exercises for tt, especially the double jump rope routine although it's rather tiring and requires some experience in order to do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ndragon88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 1:40am
I am 22 and im not tall, only 5.7.
Well its both knees but both knees were not always affected the same. But it happened rarely.
I used to do jump rope too :) but when I quit TT I quit everything along with it. Im not flat footed. and I use those nice looking adidas tt shoes.

btw it wasnt an intense training day. Just loads and loads of matches. I had like 1 or 2 5-10min breaks in between
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pongz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 2:20am
Ndragon88, I don't have flat foot as well... I think the cause for mine was the thin hard sole of the shoe... it is only after playing 2 hour plus then I started to notice a pain on the knee... normally I just stop..
 
if you have already got a cross training or badminton shoe, test and compare them. See what happen.. I use both of my shoe alternately so I know exactly where my problem is.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ndragon88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 2:45am
So maybe I should look into getting badminton shoes. How can u tell if they are good ones though. I'm not bothered about money as I know it will be worth it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iCanLoopHard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 2:47am
sit in a chair while play your knees will never hurt again :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qynthnghm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 2:53am
Hey Ndragon, are your knees just sore after play or is it sharp pains during play? If when after playing you take a break and sit down and notice how damn sore your knees are, I've had the same problem. I bought a Mueller's jumper knee strap ($5.00) and wear it (on my left knee where the pain is most significant) during playing and it drastically relieves the pain, if not fully prevent it from happening.

Edited by qynthnghm - 05/03/2011 at 2:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vassily Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 2:58am
Cut his legs off and his knees wont hurt again either. His phantom limbs might though.

Shoe wise, just go to the yonex website, and look for those with PowerCushion, which are usually the higher model numbers. They come in a nice variety of designs and some rather awesome opponent-distracting all-red, all-blue, all-gold colour designs too. Price wise its not too much, US$100ish, sometimes less? They are quite well designed, have reinforcing at the bit near the base of the little toe which always pushes through. mybadmintonstore.com has free shipping. Puppysports is ok too. There are a few others, I believe theres some UK ones too.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ndragon88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 9:15am
Originally posted by qynthnghm qynthnghm wrote:

Hey Ndragon, are your knees just sore after play or is it sharp pains during play? If when after playing you take a break and sit down and notice how damn sore your knees are, I've had the same problem. I bought a Mueller's jumper knee strap ($5.00) and wear it (on my left knee where the pain is most significant) during playing and it drastically relieves the pain, if not fully prevent it from happening.

Well sometimes I get a sharp pain during play but thats rare. What I had was sore knees the day after no once I sat down. It doesn't usually happen. Maybe its just that i played 4 hours? and im not used to it. Or that I didnt warm up before hand. Or maybe I really will need better shoes.

I hope its these reasons anyway
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qynthnghm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 9:17am
Originally posted by Ndragon88 Ndragon88 wrote:

Originally posted by qynthnghm qynthnghm wrote:

Hey Ndragon, are your knees just sore after play or is it sharp pains during play? If when after playing you take a break and sit down and notice how damn sore your knees are, I've had the same problem. I bought a Mueller's jumper knee strap ($5.00) and wear it (on my left knee where the pain is most significant) during playing and it drastically relieves the pain, if not fully prevent it from happening.

Well sometimes I get a sharp pain during play but thats rare. What I had was sore knees the day after no once I sat down. It doesn't usually happen. Maybe its just that i played 4 hours? and im not used to it. Or that I didnt warm up before hand. Or maybe I really will need better shoes.

I hope its these reasons anyway

Consider my $5 option before the $100 option. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote player87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 11:13am
Originally posted by Pongz Pongz wrote:

Hi Ndragon88, Firstly, if you don't mind me asking, what is your age?.. the reason I asked is because the age factor is of course important... If you are like me 37, whatever you do.. the knee just can't keep up with 4 hours of continous intense training.
 
Secondly, I have noticed that I got knee pain after 2+ hours of playing when I use my table tennis mizuno shoe and none when I use my badminton yonex shoe. So in my opinion the yonex shoe has a better cushion for ankle and knee. So this is one thing you could consider as well.
 
If I were you, I will take a great care with my knee.. imho, once you have a bad knee... that's it for tt... so yach be careful, mate... don't play tt while you are still in pain... let your knee recover first...  
 
Cheers 
Which badminton yones shoe are you using. Can you give a link?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pongz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 4:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ndragon88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2011 at 6:15pm
I was checking out some UK shops for Badminton shoes. Pretty much anything with the cushioning is what I should be looking to get right? I think I will get some seeing as I need new shoes soon.

By the way, I just remembered. I was bending lower on my knees the whole time which I think is the reason why. and after watching many tt vids just now I can see that no one bends them that low. In fact most of them seem to only bend their knees as far as I do. The difference is the torso movement and arm speed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TSuBaSa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2011 at 11:37am
Ndragon, I'm in the exact same situation. started to train seriously 2 months ago and it started after a while.
I've started to run for 5 minutes before training and changed my tt and regular shoes. Now I'm usind asics gel blade and I'm sure yonex is great too. Also I'm using camper. Now I can train for 3-4 hours and my knees are just fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stavros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2011 at 6:58am
I replaced my Wave Drive 4 to Asics GEL Rocket 5 and my knees are better now!
For 5 minutes, do warm up, stretching, running, before Table Tennis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ndragon88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2011 at 8:09am
thanks guys
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pongz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2011 at 8:56am
Originally posted by Stavros Stavros wrote:

I replaced my Wave Drive 4 to Asics GEL Rocket 5 and my knees are better now!
For 5 minutes, do warm up, stretching, running, before Table Tennis.

Interesting... mine was wave drive 4 too... With it, I can't play more than 2 hours, knee starts to feel pain. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2011 at 10:58am
As an overweight near-40 year old who's had knee surgery, and had some knee and foot problems last year (since resolved) I feel I might be able to contribute to this discussion.
 
According to my physicial therapist - some knee pain from specific shoes is cause by foot pronation (the foot rolling inward during side to side movement). I had this pain with my TT shoes until I added an orthotic arch support (hard plastic insert goes from heel to midfoot and props up your arch; lets you bear weight on the arch itself).

Two weeks of playing with these and my knee and foot pain vanished.

Whatever you do, don't buy wal-mart or drug-store inserts for shoes, they are pillows and offer no support. Talk to a physical therapist, chiropractor or orthopaedist (foot doctor) about getting some real inserts.

Which reminds me, I need to get multiple sets so I don't have to move my set from shoe to shoe to shoe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ndragon88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2011 at 12:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ndragon88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2011 at 9:35am
ok i have decided to just get one of the Yonex shoes. Seeing as no one is replying i think its just the safest choice.
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