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Isomorphe View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Integrated tension
    Posted: 02/02/2015 at 4:50pm
Hi everybody, 

I'm currently studying in an engineer school. I need to make my homework that is to looking for news processes of innovation. As a table tennis player, I also made the choice below : the effect which is integrated in our rubbers.  
If anybody has informations (scientific articles) or knowledges about this subject, I would know grateful of this contribution Smile

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2015 at 5:57pm
Hi,
search google patents for the usual suspects:
  • table tennis
  • ESN Elastomere GmbH
  • Tamasu Butterfly
However, be warned that they use every linguistic trick to conceal what the patent actually patents and how it works - usual patent language.

Google scholar with keywords
  • table tennis
  • filetype:pdf
might also work, but the search results are not as specific as above.

For the rubbers itself, you may want to google
  • vulcanisation
  • accelerator
  • solvent
  • cellular sponge / foam
From there dive deeper by the linked content and connect your knowledge. Depending on your prior chemical knowledge this might take some time.

Let me know if this was the information you looked for, if it helped and if not, what you are missing.

My little thoughtsontabletennis blog.
Setup: ZJK Alc,Whale 3,Shark 3 both max & 41°
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2015 at 7:00pm
Your topic is similar in nature to something like "The innovative approaches used in modern high capacity batteries". I am sure you realize that this is largely about big money, and much of that will be hard to find for a lay person. Reliable patent searches are done only using proprietary software packages which are licensed for many thousands of dollars/year. 
However, you may have a shot at some web pages (as y0da suggested) possibly describing your topic in more general terms. I would also search primary, secondary and tertiary structure of elastomers, elastomer structure modification vs properties, etc.


Edited by JacekGM - 02/02/2015 at 7:02pm
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2015 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by Isomorphe Isomorphe wrote:

Hi everybody, 

I'm currently studying in an engineer school. I need to make my homework that is to looking for news processes of innovation. As a table tennis player, I also made the choice below : the effect which is integrated in our rubbers.  
If anybody has informations (scientific articles) or knowledges about this subject, I would know grateful of this contribution Smile


I think the seamless vs. seamed ball would be more interesting from an engineering standpoint - both from the standpoint of manufacturing as well as how the seam or lack of seam might affect dynamics and durability (stress risers anybody?).

Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2015 at 8:01pm
I would look at JacekGM's thread but during the last thread about tension I did a little research about those elastomers that JacekGM linked too.  These are long chains of of molecules that can be stretched but I was still right about the rubber not being under tension in the normal way.  If a rubber was under tension it would roll up or shrivel in its normal state and there would be a need to stretch the rubber to cover the blade.  Clearly this is not the case.  Also Cole reported that somebody separated the sponge and top sheet and they were both the same size.  This indicates that neither piece was under tension.

Tension is a scam.  However I do believe that one could find different types of polymers that would be more elastic than others.

Seamless balls are made by using a process called rotomolding.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotational_molding
The technology has been around for ages.
Did you think this technology was new?

Why not model a rubber like a box spring bed but with each pip being a spring in a bed.   Then model a collision.   There have been some interesting discussions on this forum about dwell times.

Model the path of a TT ball.  I did that and posted it here.  It would be a good project for a student.

Do a search for Rodney Cross.  He has done a lot of research on collisions between balls and other objects.

I am a much older and very successful engineer that has done a fair amount of research into the physics of TT. 


Edited by pnachtwey - 02/02/2015 at 9:53pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2015 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:

I would look at JacekGM's thread but during the last thread about tension I did a little research about those elastomers that JacekGM linked too.  These are long chains of of molecules that can be stretched but I was still right about the rubber not being under tension in the normal way.  If a rubber was under tension it would roll up or shrivel in its normal state and there would be a need to stretch the rubber to cover the blade.  Clearly this is not the case.  Also Cole reported that somebody separated the sponge and top sheet and they were both the same size.  This indicates that neither piece was under tension.

Tension is a scam.  However I do believe that one could find different types of polymers that would be more elastic than others.

Seamless balls are made by using a process called rotomolding.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotational_molding
The technology has been around for ages.
Did you think this technology was new?

Why not model a rubber like a box spring bed but with each pip being a spring in a bed.   Then model a collision.   There have been some interesting discussions on this forum about dwell times.

Model the path of a TT ball.  I did that and posted it here.  It would be a good project for a student.

Do a search for Rodney Cross.  He has done a lot of research on collisions between balls and other objects.

I am a much older and very successful engineer that has done a fair amount of research into the physics of TT.   
 
With all due respect, Peter - we have never had any argument about all that...we simply cannot have one.
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2015 at 10:10pm
JacekGm, my comment was directed at Isomorphe.
Here is another important link.  It is too bad this was done so long ago.
http://www.ittf.com/ittf_science/SSCenter/docs/199408014%20-%20%20Tiefenbacher%20-%20Impact.pdf
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2015 at 10:26pm
> Tension is a scam. 

That's probably the case, which is why manufacturers always use meaningless hand-waving when describing the benefits of their products. This would be a better project for a marketing student.

Innovation in engineering is in general a difficult topic because most of the profession is grind-work. You'd do well to start with the output of r&d labs like MSR (Kinect) or various Darpa projects (auto cars, robotics) which still qualify under that umbrella.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2015 at 10:29pm
Yes, Isomorphe can always say "Integrated tension - I think I may have been scammed..."
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 12:12am
Anyone who say tension is a scam are noobs "new" to the game.  The first generation of tensor domed like a french roll.  The tension was produced by the mechanical stretching from the injection of CO2, as stated in the ESN patent.  Butterfly commissioned ESN to produce Bryce using that method for a really short time in 2006 after words of the glue ban spread.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 3:36am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Anyone who say tension is a scam are noobs "new" to the game.
Why don't you show us your evidence instead of insulting everyone?  So far there has been evidence to the contrary except for marketing weasel words.

Quote
  The first generation of tensor domed like a french roll.  The tension was produced by the mechanical stretching from the injection of CO2, as stated in the ESN patent.
You are implying that the air bubbles in the sponge are air tight and under pressure.  Has anybody popped a sponge?

If the air bubbles are air tight then how does "tuner" or paraffin oil seep into the sponge?  Any material that can keep small O2 or N2 molecules from escaping could easily keep bigger organic molecules out.

i do believe that the sponge can be temporarily speed glued or "tuned" because I have done it but the rubber itself was not under tension before or after this temporary modification.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 5:06am
So you know how to spell insult.  By the same token, why don't you get off your lazy ass and high horse, do some real research on your own and stop ridiculing every thread about equipment?  Talk about insulting other "successful engineers" who have done real R&D for table tennis.

Evidence?  Be my guest and help yourself.  I couldn't care less as past experience shows it doesn't do *bleep* to propel the discussion forward.

You clearly don't know *bleep* when it comes to table tennis.  Multiple patents show that modern rubbers(topsheet and sponge) are closed-cell as opposed to open-cell.  What this means is that gas is trapped within the individual bubbles during the molding process.    The gas within the bubbles will try to escape into the atmosphere due to entropy, which exerts tension on the rubber.  This increases elasticity as more kinetic energy from the impact is stored as the bubbles are compressed and returned to the ball and thus the COR of the rubber is higher.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 6:20am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Anyone who say tension is a scam are noobs "new" to the game.  The first generation of tensor domed like a french roll.  The tension was produced by the mechanical stretching from the injection of CO2, as stated in the ESN patent.  Butterfly commissioned ESN to produce Bryce using that method for a really short time in 2006 after words of the glue ban spread.


Whatever may be the case in a previous product where the stretching is evident out of the packaging isn't applicable to a different one sold today. It seems you aren't aware of any connection to the current product despite all this pretense.

You also like to pretend to be someone who should know what a "tensor" means. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to how it's relevant to a rubber.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 6:28am
> If the air bubbles are air tight then how does "tuner" or paraffin oil seep into the sponge?  Any material that can keep small O2 or N2 molecules from escaping could easily keep bigger organic molecules out.

> Multiple patents show that modern rubbers(topsheet and sponge) are closed-cell as opposed to open-cell.  What this means is that gas is trapped within the individual bubbles during the molding process.   


Just FYI for everyone else, zeio is basically parroting patent claims (which may or may not have much to do with reality much less the argument at hand) and doesn't understand what's being said here.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 8:04am
So I got bored, and quick lookup of these patents produces this by ESN:
https://www.google.com.gh/patents/DE19509309A1

Here's what likely happened: zeio catches wind somewhere that ESN has a patent, and apparently it's for pressurizing a sponge with gas (co2 is just one stated alternate to air, probably the first he recognized). Nevermind the dubious connection between this and "tension" given it's far easier to chemically expand a sponge to whatever relative size diff necessary for a dome. It makes you look knowledgeable to folks who aren't technically astute to put it out there that Tension is due to compressed CO2 in "closed-cell" sponges.

First thing to know about patents is that they're not evidence any product uses them, or that they even work in the first place given applicants are not required to submit working sample or proof.  Second this is hardly evidence TT sponges are closed to pressure for any prolonged period necessary to hold a significantly pressurized gas, especially given large pore sponge which seem pretty open. More especially since the claimed method of pressurization is putting it inside a chamber for a day.

Circumstantial evidence comes from this related later patent which is for a layer to temporarily help retain gases (presumably for at least the short dwell time) which would imply TT sponge don't actually hold gas well, if at all:

http://www.google.com.gh/patents/DE102008039157A1?cl=en

I guess they must not have access to those super closed-cell sponge. Least there's any claim applicant isn't aware of the "pressurized sponge" trick, here's the same guy's own patent on introducing gas (which again doesn't mean it works):

https://www.google.com.gh/patents/DE112006001704A5

Thus these TT sponges likely don't maintain pressure and aren't closed cell at least according to that def, esp due the vulnerability of such material to the high stresses of TT, and zeio just made that up to make the pressurized claim seem plausible.


Edited by AgentHEX - 02/03/2015 at 8:06am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 8:12am
Thanks everybody for your comments,  your links and your advices. I will make actually a technology watch about a subject on table tennis.
PS : I don't study the technic or the design in details but more the process of the innovation.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 8:20am
Thanks AgentHex ( and the others) for your comments Smile. You seems to be an expert of table tennis's rubbers. I'm searching differents patents of this technlogy and try to figure out what it say.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 8:32am
Wturber, your idea about seamed ball is quite interesting. I'll glance at this process.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 11:41am
Poor answer, Agent.  I really would love for you to parrot those patents but I doubt you would be able to dig them out.  You still get partial credits for at least giving it a try.

Instead of flogging you with direct links to those patents that you claim "[a]re not evidence any product uses them, or that they even work in the first place", shall we go over the history of table tennis sandwich rubber?  Do yourself a favor and paste the following into Google Translate to lead yourself to enlightenment.  By courtesy of yours truly, the most important part is even highlighted.

Quote この状況が変化する転機は、第二次世界大戦後、1950年代に日本にて新しい用具を続々と開発し、実戦に使用され結果を出したことである。先ずは従来の1枚ラバーを裏返しにして貼る「裏ラバー」が使われるようになった。これは1枚ラバーと比較してボールとの接触面積が広いため摩擦が大きいことで強い回転をかけやすくなり、それを大きく活かした攻撃を行うことが可能となった。さらに、太平洋戦争時に航空機燃料タンク防弾用など、軍事用に用いられていた独立気泡スポンジが卓球の用具として使われるようになる。これは反発力が強く、従来のラバーと比べて打力が飛躍的に向上した。それをラケットの打球面に貼り付けた「スポンジラバー」、裏ラバーとスポンジを貼りあわせた「裏ソフトラバー」や、一枚ラバーとスポンジを貼りあわせた「表ソフトラバー」が開発された。その特徴を大きく活かしたスマッシュ攻撃を武器に、1952年の第19回世界卓球選手権で日本は大会初参加ながら、女子団体・男子シングルス・男子ダブルス・女子ダブルスの4種目で優勝と黄金時代の口火を切り、1950年代の世界選手権において日本選手が各種目にて優勝者を多数輩出した。
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 11:42am
AgentHex's first link does explain a pressurization technique where the sponge is created under pressure. This is the only way one could get the bubbles in the sponge to be greater than atmospheric pressure but I ask again.

Has anybody popped the bubbles in their sponge?
Are the packages that the rubber you buy pressurized so that the bubbles in the sponge are under pressure when you buy and open the package?   If so then why are the packages expanded?
Why do sponges dome when speed glue is applied?  The speed glue and other boosters would noy sink into the sponge if the bubbles were air tight.

What is being tensioned?  I don't see the word tension in those patents AgentHex listed.

Zeio, where is your evidence and stop telling lies.  I am not a noob as one can see by my registration date and I played for a year and a half before that.  I wish the moderators would do something about the insults and lies so I don't have to come down on poor zero like a ton of bricks. I am not a gullible and uneducated fool that believes everything a manufacturer tells me in the marketing propaganda.  I have been in business a long time, probably much longer than you have been alive, and know how the marketing game is played.

oops, my spelling corrector made an unintended correction but I will leave it.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:

I am not a noob as one can see by my registration date and I played for a year and a half before that.
Thank you for your personal confirmation.  I'm sorry to tell you that officially makes you a noob.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Poor answer, Agent.  I really would love for you to parrot those patents but I doubt you would be able to dig them out.  You still get partial credits for at least giving it a try.

Instead of flogging you with direct links to those patents that you claim "[a]re not evidence any product uses them, or that they even work in the first place", shall we go over the history of table tennis sandwich rubber?  Do yourself a favor and paste the following into Google Translate to lead yourself to enlightenment.  By courtesy of yours truly, the most important part is even highlighted.

Quote この状況が変化する転機は、第二次世界大戦後、1950年代に日本にて新しい用具を続々と開発し、実戦に使用され結果を出したことである。先ずは従来の1枚ラバーを裏返しにして貼る「裏ラバー」が使われるようになった。これは1枚ラバーと比較してボールとの接触面積が広いため摩擦が大きいことで強い回転をかけやすくなり、それを大きく活かした攻撃を行うことが可能となった。さらに、太平洋戦争時に航空機燃料タンク防弾用など、軍事用に用いられていた独立気泡スポンジが卓球の用具として使われるようになる。これは反発力が強く、従来のラバーと比べて打力が飛躍的に向上した。それをラケットの打球面に貼り付けた「スポンジラバー」、裏ラバーとスポンジを貼りあわせた「裏ソフトラバー」や、一枚ラバーとスポンジを貼りあわせた「表ソフトラバー」が開発された。その特徴を大きく活かしたスマッシュ攻撃を武器に、1952年の第19回世界卓球選手権で日本は大会初参加ながら、女子団体・男子シングルス・男子ダブルス・女子ダブルスの4種目で優勝と黄金時代の口火を切り、1950年代の世界選手権において日本選手が各種目にて優勝者を多数輩出した。


It's pretty amusing when someone talks about patent this or that and generally pretends to know what they're talking about yet the best they can source is Wikipedia instead of the usual asian forums they copy/paste from.

Btw, nobody is looking for whether sponge is "closed cell" as if it's some binary factoid given it's pretty obvious it supports some degree of membrane pressure (from, say, evaporating hydrocarbons) or else speed glue would've never worked. The point of contention is your claim (preserved above for posterity) it's so impassable that ESN can ship w/ compressed CO2 to "tension" the rubber and work for as long as TT equipment is expected to. Unfortunately googling that whether in chinese or japanese won't get you anywhere because I just tried.

Given clues on that front won't be forthcoming since you've reach the end of how far this farce can run, hopefully someone with some actual expertise here can fill in any interesting details.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by Isomorphe Isomorphe wrote:

I'm searching differents patents of this technlogy and try to figure out what it say.


In the hour or so I played with it, Google's patent search seems to do Ok with table tennis specifically but don't expect miracles. It translates so even non-english ones get caught but doesn't show pictures for the german ones at least for me. Combined with machine translation you'll have to use your imagination a bit.

Just be aware that TT companies are notorious for relying on marketing terminology to sell their product because it's not a grand high-tech industry that's pandering to a customer who often believes they are. "Nano", "Tensor", an endless list of entirely interchangeable composite fabrics, yet I'm disappointed they didn't throw in a dose of modern physics with "light year" or "quantum something" for good effect.

If you're intent on this area specifically, coming up with replacements for speed glue (VOCs) as a result of "green" regulation probably isn't the worse topic. Some things to look for:

Mechanical tension from pre-made difference in sponge/rubber size to replace more ephemeral VOC induced curl effect.

Newer chemical "tuning/boosting". Heavier mineral oil type stuff seem to be at least one of the ingredients. Not sure that's supposed to work but perhaps it has some marginal effect on the permeability of the cellular sponge walls. Less permeable = bit more bounce.

Some improvements in the production process that's behind the supposedly better larger pores. Look into the rubber making process and try to figure what can cause that. Might be a side-effect of who knows what else they're doing and thus a red herring, but at least worth putting down in your paper with whatever you can come up with.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 1:49pm
All this bickering over the word "Tension"...........  Wacko

I understand the point of asking if any top sheet or sponge is or has been stretched prior to gluing the 2 together.....but guys....who freaking cares what they call it or how they do it? 

All I care about is the fact that I LOVE ESN rubbers.   I will never go back to dump truck chinese rubbers again. 

PLEASE RAKZA X SOFT..........GET HERE SOON!   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 1:57pm
You're better than that, Agent.  To show that your not throughly understanding anything before taking a stand, may I quote the Michelin patent from which you ripped an image for your "Blades don't flex" thread?

Quote The layer of foam 26 consists for example of a closed-cell latex.

I guess you didn't even pay attention to what it was about until now.  Nobody is looking for what?

To further demonstrate that you have no idea how the world works, I will quote another passage that explains the mechanism behind the shrinkage of closed-cell rubber.

Quote ガス透過性という特質

宮原ゴム 独立気泡
独立気泡スポンジは簡潔に言うとゴムボール(中空)の集合体と考えられます。連続気泡スポンジと違いひとつひとつの気泡が独立しており、隙間の埋まったゴムボールの固まりの様になっています。すべてのゴムボール(中空)は時間の経過と共にその硬さが失われ張りが無くなってしまいます(テニスボール、軟式野球ボールなど)。これはゴムの持つ「ガス透過性」という性質によって発生します。ボール内の空気圧の方が外気の空気圧より高いため、中から外へと空気はゴムを透過して出ていきます。この為、ゴムボールは当初の張りを時間と共に失っていくのです。ゴム風船が縮んでいくのも、これと同じ原理です。

ガス透過性の大きさ
ガスの透過性は大小ありますが、全てのゴム(合成ゴム、天然ゴム)が透過性を持っており、独立気泡スポンジの収縮は避けて通る事はできません。ガス透過性の大きい代表としては「NR(天然ゴム)」(用途:ゴムボールなど)、小さい代表としては「IIR(ブチルゴム)」(用途:タイヤのインナー、ゴムチューブなど)が上げられます。
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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zeio View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 2:12pm
Have you written a scientific report in school once, Rich215?  Yes, no one give a damn about what they call it, but the OP does.  This is what this thread is all about.  I respect your opinion but this is not the appropriate place to express your preference as I don't care if you love ESN rubbers or hate the Chinese trash.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Baal View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 2:20pm
Perhaps the term "speed glue effect" rubbers might be useful and less heated than referring to tension.  It encompasses all of the rubbers that might be discussed without making any assumptions about how they work. 

Although I have to say that none of them have ever felt or sounded that much to me like original speed glue, assuming I remember correctly what that felt like, which I can't guarantee after this much time has passed.  I actually think I prefer Tenergy 05 to what we used to have before the ban, and I don't claim to know how it works.
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pnachtwey View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:

I am not a noob as one can see by my registration date and I played for a year and a half before that.
Thank you for your personal confirmation.  I'm sorry to tell you that officially makes you a noob.
Why don't you answer the questions instead of hurling insults and you are wrong again.

Zeio, I was playing TT before you were born.  I practically majored in TT my freshman year of college. I was second best in my university my sophomore year but that was 1972. We only had an intramural tournament back then. School work got in the way of TT. I stopped playing for 38 years getting all sorts of engineering experience that you obviously lack.  I just don't count my earlier TT experience because it was so long ago and I was playing left handed then instead of right handed, the balls were 38mm, the games were to 21 etc.

How long one has been playing has little bearing on whether one can interpret bogus advertising but you simply don't seem to get that.  

@Moderators how is that zeio can post bogus data and hurl insults and not get banned?  This has happened over and over again.  I have always proved that zeio has been wrong but some how I am the one that gets banned.

There is a tendency on this forum to say that because player A has a higher rating or playing longer than another that player B doesn't know anything.   This is so wrong.  I would like to see how well you guys play when you are over 60 if you make it that far.

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AgentHEX View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

You're better than that, Agent.  To show that your not throughly understanding anything before taking a stand, may I quote the Michelin patent from which you ripped an image for your "Blades don't flex" thread?

Quote The layer of foam 26 consists for example of a closed-cell latex.

I guess you didn't even pay attention to what it was about until now.  Nobody is looking for what?

To further demonstrate that you have no idea how the world works, I will quote another passage that explains the mechanism behind the shrinkage of closed-cell rubber.

Quote


Well, the claim that nothing will be forthcoming about pressurized sponge continues to hold true. Please disabuse this belief that copy/pasting enough irrelevant results from googling in japanese will somehow start sticking to the wall.
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AgentHEX View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2015 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Perhaps the term "speed glue effect" rubbers might be useful and less heated than referring to tension.  It encompasses all of the rubbers that might be discussed without making any assumptions about how they work. 

Although I have to say that none of them have ever felt or sounded that much to me like original speed glue, assuming I remember correctly what that felt like, which I can't guarantee after this much time has passed.  I actually think I prefer Tenergy 05 to what we used to have before the ban, and I don't claim to know how it works.


I suspect the glue sound had something do with escaping VOC gases on an impact (possibly bursting some cells) and as such can't be perfectly duplicated by anything but.

Speed glue was several effects in one (elasticity, topsheet tension, etc) and while boosting to possibly alter physical phenomena at the wall membrane might come closest in effect, it's not exactly this hilarious "pressurized sponge" business.
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