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interesting sorcery

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    Posted: 03/08/2023 at 10:32pm
Look at this guy who creates side underspin with his opening loop. Wtf I wanna learn this stroke now...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2023 at 10:39pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Look at this guy who creates side underspin with his opening loop. Wtf I wanna learn this stroke now...



Ma Long and Gauzy have done this in matches.  The Ma Long one was actually in the recent trials vs Xu Yingbin - let me see if I can find it.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2023 at 12:21am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2023 at 1:11am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADUBCvEHLGE

Yes - this is the exact same kind of stroke. Ma Long makes it even better - that followthrough looks exactly as if he was hooking the ball up with sidetopspin.... Xu Yingbin didn't know what was on the ball at all! 

Imma gonna go experiment with this - it seems like a really devastating stroke against blockers if disguised well. I have a fake "low spin" opening loop but this looks like it's 10x more effective because the spin is a lot stronger and you can use max energy in the backswing similar to the loop backswing which makes it even more disguised. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2023 at 1:38am
In 2015, I had developed that backhand ghost serve giving tremendous spin because the violent wrist action but I never made it a reliable weapon for matches.


It seems that's what they do, brushing the ball under and in the front of the ball, they have to add some sidespin of course but it's still side under. Amazing!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2023 at 2:22am
Chris Doran in the UK uses a very similar stroke and agree it is very effective and very heavy. It's also tricky to pull off in a match environment. Nice clip. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2023 at 6:34am
Lol I tried to do this and failed terribly - it is not as easy as it looks!  It takes an incredible amount of ball feeling, even more so than a loop because the spin doesn't drag it down to the table so you really have to manage the momentum really well.

Edited by blahness - 03/09/2023 at 6:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2023 at 7:02am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Lol I tried to do this and failed terribly - it is not as easy as it looks!  It takes an incredible amount of ball feeling, even more so than a loop because the spin doesn't drag it down to the table so you really have to manage the momentum really well.
To do the shot is not so difficult but to fake it - it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2023 at 7:47am
Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Lol I tried to do this and failed terribly - it is not as easy as it looks!  It takes an incredible amount of ball feeling, even more so than a loop because the spin doesn't drag it down to the table so you really have to manage the momentum really well.
To do the shot is not so difficult but to fake it - it is.

Haha I think I'm not that talented in this shot. Have you tried it out? I would like to get some tips on doing it. 

I only managed to land maybe 20% of them off a long heavy tomahawk side under serve - whereas if I looped them it'll be minimum 80% accuracy. And I feel like this is kinda scripted, just one look and ppl will know that it's side underspin and simply push the ball back...  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2023 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Haha I think I'm not that talented in this shot. Have you tried it out? I would like to get some tips on doing it. 

I only managed to land maybe 20% of them off a long heavy tomahawk side under serve - whereas if I looped them it'll be minimum 80% accuracy. And I feel like this is kinda scripted, just one look and ppl will know that it's side underspin and simply push the ball back...  
Hi, yes I tried- pretty good works against long pendulum service from righty - when the ball goes over the side line and you are not in time on the ball.
Helps not to completely loose the position as is much slower and this you buy the time to recover 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TampaBayTableTennis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2023 at 3:12pm
Incredible shot!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2023 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Haha I think I'm not that talented in this shot. Have you tried it out? I would like to get some tips on doing it. 

I only managed to land maybe 20% of them off a long heavy tomahawk side under serve - whereas if I looped them it'll be minimum 80% accuracy. And I feel like this is kinda scripted, just one look and ppl will know that it's side underspin and simply push the ball back...  
Hi, yes I tried- pretty good works against long pendulum service from righty - when the ball goes over the side line and you are not in time on the ball.
Helps not to completely loose the position as is much slower and this you buy the time to recover 

Do you have any method to train up this shot?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2023 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Haha I think I'm not that talented in this shot. Have you tried it out? I would like to get some tips on doing it. 

I only managed to land maybe 20% of them off a long heavy tomahawk side under serve - whereas if I looped them it'll be minimum 80% accuracy. And I feel like this is kinda scripted, just one look and ppl will know that it's side underspin and simply push the ball back...  
Hi, yes I tried- pretty good works against long pendulum service from righty - when the ball goes over the side line and you are not in time on the ball.
Helps not to completely loose the position as is much slower and this you buy the time to recover 

Do you have any method to train up this shot?
Train with robot and after that train with somebody.
The bad thing - it makes a bad habbit - instead of good topspin you become more willing to do this shot as it's easier to implement pretty often and after couple of shots your opponent adjusts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2023 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Haha I think I'm not that talented in this shot. Have you tried it out? I would like to get some tips on doing it. 

I only managed to land maybe 20% of them off a long heavy tomahawk side under serve - whereas if I looped them it'll be minimum 80% accuracy. And I feel like this is kinda scripted, just one look and ppl will know that it's side underspin and simply push the ball back...  
Hi, yes I tried- pretty good works against long pendulum service from righty - when the ball goes over the side line and you are not in time on the ball.
Helps not to completely loose the position as is much slower and this you buy the time to recover 

Do you have any method to train up this shot?
Train with robot and after that train with somebody.
The bad thing - it makes a bad habbit - instead of good topspin you become more willing to do this shot as it's easier to implement pretty often and after couple of shots your opponent adjusts.

Haha.... I realised that as well - I was testing this against a guy in the club (even though i only had 20% landing rate), he missed like the first 2 shots and then after that he was pushing them back reliably. Ouch.... it doesn't seem as good as it looks.


Edited by blahness - 03/09/2023 at 5:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2023 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Haha.... I realised that as well - I was testing this against a guy in the club (even though i only had 20% landing rate), he missed like the first 2 shots and then after that he was pushing them back reliably. Ouch.... it doesn't seem as good as it looks.
Agree  - the toughest thing is to fake it. 
So from time to time - is OK-ish but too often is just weakening your game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/09/2023 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Haha.... I realised that as well - I was testing this against a guy in the club (even though i only had 20% landing rate), he missed like the first 2 shots and then after that he was pushing them back reliably. Ouch.... it doesn't seem as good as it looks.
Agree  - the toughest thing is to fake it. 
So from time to time - is OK-ish but too often is just weakening your game.

Agreed, if you land an ultra spinny opening loop you probably already have like 70% winrate off that stroke itself, plus opening loops are a lot more stable and consistent in general. But I guess sometimes it's fun to experiment a bit lol...
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