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Is there such a thing as too much Limba? |
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Ross Leidy
Super Member Joined: 10/13/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 402 |
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Posted: 08/21/2013 at 11:54pm |
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That's the question member assiduous will attempt to answer. Recently, I built a custom blade for him with a limba core, which was a new use of limba for me. This got me considering an all-Limba blade to see if it would be practical and/or desirable. I built the blade below, and was surprised that it was not super fast, given the core density. Assiduous expressed his curiosity about the blade and has generously agreed to give it a test. I'll be shipping it out tomorrow.
Specs: Composition: Limba-Limba-Limba-Limba-Limba (core is black Limba) Thickness: 5.5mm Weight: 94g ST Buckeye Burl handle |
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frogger
Premier Member Joined: 08/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
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Ross that blade is so ugly that it's beautiful! I hope he gives a nice detailed evaluation for all of us. All limba sounds very different but interesting.
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Wood Paddle
Red side Black side. |
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jrscatman
Premier Member Joined: 10/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4585 |
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Wow...what a beautiful blade!
Since the handle is solid does it make the blade head light? Also are you able to shape the handle different format - I am thinking like a tennis racquet?
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Butterfly MPS
FH: Donic Acuda S1 BH: Palio CK531A OX |
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Whang
Silver Member Joined: 12/20/2012 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 550 |
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If it'll play well with someone, or if someone finds it comfortable, then no, it won't be too much limba..same goes with other materials, blade weight, etc etc
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Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra (Penhold)
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo (Black - 2.15mm - 41 deg) BH: 729 Focus III Snipe (Red - 2.10mm - 42 deg) Weight: 168.57g |
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emihet
Platinum Member Joined: 09/22/2009 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 2315 |
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I would like to test is as well if possible...as you know i was thinking of a 7 ply limba...so this is very very interesting...and i like the ST handle...if possible to test it next...i will pay for the shipping...let me know thanks.
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Viscaria, Ma Long 5, Old Clippers, BTY Ovtcharov and Various Custom blades
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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As far as I know the only reason anyone uses Ayous as a core is the feeling it gives and the light weight. Limba should play with more spin no doubt, will it feel as good, that's the interesting question
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doraemon
Gold Member Joined: 05/14/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1738 |
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Tibhar has already done this: Tibhar Blaszyk (spelling ??)
5 Ply of Limbas..... It is not fast yet I think I better have Limba as the outer and intermediate layers, not as the core. EDIT: Sorry, this is the correct spelling: Tibhar BlaszczykEdited by doraemon - 08/22/2013 at 4:50am |
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Blade : Just wood
FH : black rubber BH : red rubber |
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Tassie52
Gold Member Joined: 10/09/2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1318 |
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Ross Leidy
Super Member Joined: 10/13/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 402 |
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That would be great, thanks. You can coordinate with assiduous to get the blade when he's done.
No surprise here. The buckeye burl definitely has a "look." This was the first time I used it, and there's a more recent blade using it - photos posted over on ooak. It's very interesting to look at up close, but I'm not entirely sure I like the overall effect. I think I might like it more in a smaller dose. |
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assiduous
Platinum Member Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
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Ayous in inferior to limba in every aspect. Except weight and cost : )
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Hmmm. Needs more limba. Maybe a limba handle?
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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Ross Leidy
Super Member Joined: 10/13/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 402 |
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The thought did occur to me. I resisted.
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Pondus
Gold Member Joined: 04/07/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1933 |
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I'll be really interested hear how this blade plays (I'm a big limba lover myself).
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SmackDAT
Platinum Member Joined: 01/01/2012 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2231 |
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You should make a 9-ply limba blade, you know.
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Ross Leidy
Super Member Joined: 10/13/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 402 |
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It could be done, but the weight would go up due to the extra glue layers. The glue accounts for 1g-1.5g per layer.
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SmackDAT
Platinum Member Joined: 01/01/2012 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2231 |
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Yeah.. 94g for a 5 ply blade, it would easily be 105g+ for a 9 ply blade.
:o Good job though!
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assiduous
Platinum Member Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
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Best Limba all-wood blade i have used!
I have had 4 Primoracs, Maximus, Korbel, Clipper, IF ALC, IF ZLC. I also bough two custom limba blades from Ross already this year, in the pursuit of the perfect limba blade. Aside from playing extensively with all of these blades, I have spent a lot of time researching the properties of the cores and thinking about what should be used for the core. The problem with the all-wood limba blades is one - control. No matter what they tell you, limba is too soft to wrap around a even softer ayous and expect good accuracy away from the table. It is physically impossible. I'm not saying its bad, but the moment you compare to a koto blade and you feel extra stability in long trajectory. The thing is, the limba outers have such great feel, and allow opening loops even against the heaviest backspin. Koto is much less cooperative in that regard. So I spent a lot of money trying to find a blade that has the opening loop of Korbel, but the stability of a koto blade. The only variable that is left to modify is the core, if you want to keep the outer veneers. So in my first effort with Ross we made a limba blade with west red cedar core. Very nice feel, extra punch compared to Korbel, but difficult to control. Especially passive blocks - the ball jumped out of control sometimes. For the second blade I, the genius I am, decided to put limba core (smart) but instead of two limba plies I put only one, thick ayous ply. The goal was to have extra dwelly and soft BH, but hard and powerful FH. In hindsight, that was a mistake. The problem is that the BH plies also support the rest of the blade for rigidity. Since it was a single soft ply instead of two transposed plies, the blade became too flexy. That blade has too much dwell. I did not think that's possible, but it is. It is just crazy. You expect the ball to take off the paddle already but it is still on the paddle. It messes up with your timing because you are not used to such long contact with the ball. Also, because of the flex, accuracy was not that great if you step away from the table.
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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assiduous
Platinum Member Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
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And finally about the new blade. Everything I wanted to achieve is in this blade. I am telling you, if you like Korbel or Primorac or Clipper, you will LOVE this blade. The only flaw would be the weight, but I always look for blades over 90 gr, so that is not a flaw for me.
the blade has much better touch and feel than any limba blade. You have to feel it to believe it. The ayous core in all limba blades creates hollow, blurry feeling. And impotency. After hitting the first ball you can feel the harder core. You just feel it. And the stability and accuracy that come with it just give you confidence to try shots! But the best part is that limba is not very reactive. Not like hinoki or cedar that are REALLY JUMPY when compressed. Limba has great contro, no vibration, just a mild pleasant feedback. This blade has better control than any of the all wood limba blades on my list above. No, it is still not as dead-stable as a TBS, but then nothing is, and that much stability comes with a price. With respect to speed, it is on the lower range of OFF. It is exactly the same like Korbel and slower that a clipper. However the blade feels extremely powerful. When you swing hard and make a good contact the ball is hard to touch. Yeah, if you swing right, you wont lack punch with this. The blade has very high throw. Even more so than Korbel, and much more than Clipper. Opening loop is simply a pleasure. Away from the table you have to deal with landing loops with very high arc but those are very consistent and is up to you. I had tenergy on BH and MXP on FH, and with that blade the setup was extremely reactive to incoming spin. There is no other way with those properties. It doesn't bother me because I am used to this type of blade. The great touch makes for this being the best blade in the world for serving. Yes, it is. Ultimately, if you have played with a fast carbon blade already and you like it, i don't see this as a substitute, despite the good speed and control. Mid distance rally with all wood blade is just going to put you at a disadvantage against any opponent with carbon. If anyone tells you anything else don't believe them. But as far as the wonderful world of Limba is concerned, this one is truly atop of the pyramid. Korbel and Clipper just feel hollow and blurry and don't come even close to this. And primo vibrates wayyy too much. If you can afford it and can deal with the weight - I highly recommend this blade.
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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crackfst
Super Member Joined: 02/23/2013 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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"Korbel and Clipper just feel hollow and blurry and don't come even close to this"
I think thats because your blades inner plies is more solid and heavier, Clipper and Korbel are 6.7mm, much more than this blade Clipper and Korbel both use ayous(also called Abachi/Obeche/Samba) inner plies vs your limba
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Darker Speed 90 Jpen
Tenergy 64 |
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emihet
Platinum Member Joined: 09/22/2009 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 2315 |
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look forward to test it...thanks for the review
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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a full limba version of clipper would be nice but 6mm |
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Ross Leidy
Super Member Joined: 10/13/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 402 |
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The high throw is undoubtedly due to the flex of an all-wood 5.5mm blade. The limba core is a bit heavier than conventional core woods, making the overall choice of thickness a balance between keeping the blade a reasonable weight and retaining a certain stiffness. Had the limba been a little lighter, I may have targeted a 5.7mm thickness to add a bit more stiffness. Every design is a bagful of compromises, but that's what makes it so interesting.
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Pondus
Gold Member Joined: 04/07/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1933 |
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I'm really excited to test this blade after reading Assiduous' review. :)
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emihet
Platinum Member Joined: 09/22/2009 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 2315 |
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Sorry but the trail of the too much limba blade has come to an end...I am currently using another custom made blade and i don't have a tournament back up blade...I received the blade 2 days ago and had the chance to play a couple of times with it...after the first trial i knew it would be hard to let go of it...
It is one of those rare blades that i could just pick up at any time and i could play without needing time to get used to it. The handle is nice, a bit glossy for me but that is ok...since it is not slippery. Head shape is right on, for flex and feel...and it does not feel heavy or too head heavy even at 94 grams. Before the speed glue ban i used Avalox BT550, BT555, P500 and the last batch of Butterfly Powerdrive from the 90s that had the misspelling word swining in the text...a very soft off- high throw blade. Well, with the speed glue ban...i started using old clippers from the 80s with 7 layers of limba and liked the feel of limba.... Ross' blade feels in between the Avalox feel and the Powerdrive feel...a bit more soft then the avalox but not as much as the Powerdrive...thus it is great for: heavy serves, heavy pushes, heavy spin opening loops, easier and spinier flips, easier to lift underspin, high control, ability to hit sharper angles when looping as you expect from a blade that is All+ to Off- and has a great dwell time... I played with Tenergy 05/Baracuda and both worked though i liked the 05 feel better...i will have to try it with chinese on the forehand as well. By the feel of the blade, i think it likes medium to medium-hard sponge rubbers. So that works great for me. I did not find anything wrong with the blade, but there could be a couple of things to make it ideal for me: if the blade were to be only 10-20% faster it would likely be my playing blade instead of my back up. and maybe...only maybe 5% stiffer so punching loops with more power would be easier and faster... great job Ross from the 5 blades i tried from you this is the one i like the best, and sorry to Pondus...he will have to wait until another demo will go his way. If you have a technical game, based on heavy spin, control and setting up your attack from the short game...and used to use old stiga ALL or Off blades you may want to look into trying this blade! |
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emihet
Platinum Member Joined: 09/22/2009 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 2315 |
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+1...more spin and no loss in feel
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emihet
Platinum Member Joined: 09/22/2009 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 2315 |
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'the blade flexes but i did not feel loss of control because the extra spin i could put on the ball gave me the extra control i needed...
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Ross Leidy
Super Member Joined: 10/13/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 402 |
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Emilian - thanks for your review of the blade. I know that you had expressed interest in an all-limba blade earlier, so it's great that you were able to try it out. Even better that it hit the mark for you. I'm glad it worked out well.
It would be possible to increase the speed and stiffness of the blade by increasing the core thickness. However, this would likely push the blade up to or over the 100g point. For those who favor heavy blades, this may not be an issue. For most though, a 3-digit weight could be a big psychological hurdle. There will be a brief intermission in the eval while I ready a 2nd demo blade for Pondus.
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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emihet, rather than change the thickness or anything else in the blade, maybe just changing the top ply or second ply to Koto would sharpen it up enough for you and give it slightly more speed. I have a blade with Koto ontop of Limba and it works very well
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emihet
Platinum Member Joined: 09/22/2009 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 2315 |
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that is a very good thought...surface hardness vs core hardness...how much difference would it be between these 2? i wonder
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Ross Leidy
Super Member Joined: 10/13/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 402 |
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Here are a couple photos of the new all-limba demo blade heading off to Pondus this week. It's the same as the original blade except with a curly Hawaiian Koa handle.
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