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It's awesome when coaching pays off..

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    Posted: 08/17/2019 at 8:49pm
I have been coaching a co-worker during our lunch break at our table at work for a few months. Earlier this year he got his initial rating of around 1100. Today, he competed in our local giant round robin. He was the bottom seed in his RR group of 9 and he won 8 of 9 matches and won the group. He beat several 1300 and 1400 players and will likely be over 1400 once the tournament is processed.. I also coached him during his last match against a 1380 in which he was behind 1:2 against a Seemiller style player. After my advice, he ended up winning in 5 and won the group. There were 2 players with 8 wins and he won his match against the other player with 8 wins and won the group. It is a rewarding feeling that coaching pays off. I did not charge him for the coaching..offered it to him voluntarily..
Of course, he is also a long pips blocker.. pulling one player at a time to the dark side.. I think that I can get him to 1700 some time next year.


Edited by Pushblocker - 08/17/2019 at 8:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2019 at 9:01pm
How about a video?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2019 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

How about a video?
No video, sorry..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2019 at 10:46pm
It's nice to see the hard work he has put in pay off, congradulations on helping him improve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2019 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by 1dennistt 1dennistt wrote:

It's nice to see the hard work he has put in pay off, congradulations on helping him improve.
It is very rewarding to see his inprovement. Like I said, my goal for the next 12 months is to get him to 1600 or even 1700..
There is lots of room for improvement. His strategy skills need major improvement as does his forehand technique.
His pips blocking is good but he still takes the ball later than I would like to see it and he does not take advantage of pushing aggressive against underspin.
Footwork is also something that needs improvement as do his serves.. 


Edited by Pushblocker - 08/17/2019 at 11:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2019 at 4:24am
The force is strong with the second pushblocker.  The rebellion must resist the dark side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2019 at 1:46pm
New Rating of my student is out.. 1105 to 1369... 264 points gained!!
I lost 5 rating points despite coming in 4th in the top group.


Edited by Pushblocker - 08/19/2019 at 1:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2019 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

New Rating of my student is out.. 1105 to 1369... 264 points gained!!
I lost 5 rating points despite coming in 4th in the top group.

It's interesting how style match ups work.  I am also a LP'er, but an attacker, not a pushblocker.  I was a 1600+ player at the Nationals and beat the 1900 player (1950 at the time)  that beat you in your tournament.  Before my match with him he told me he knew how to beat high rated LP'ers.  After the match he told me he didn't know how to beat LP'ers who attack with the LP's on the backhand and loop with inverted on the forehand.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2019 at 11:08pm
Pushblocker, did you coach him to be LP blocker right from the start?

Usually, we tell people to master basic strokes and as he/she gets better, it's then up to him/her to venture to "unique style".


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/20/2019 at 8:18am
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

New Rating of my student is out.. 1105 to 1369... 264 points gained!!
I lost 5 rating points despite coming in 4th in the top group.

It's interesting how style match ups work.  I am also a LP'er, but an attacker, not a pushblocker.  I was a 1600+ player at the Nationals and beat the 1900 player (1950 at the time)  that beat you in your tournament.  Before my match with him he told me he knew how to beat high rated LP'ers.  After the match he told me he didn't know how to beat LP'ers who attack with the LP's on the backhand and loop with inverted on the forehand.  
Jean-Marie is very good against my style. He practices with a 2300 level long pips player all the time and he beats him most of the time (Dickie Fleisher).  I also played a practice match with him (and won) before the round robin match against him.. Not a good idea to play him before the round robin match against him..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/20/2019 at 8:25am
Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

Pushblocker, did you coach him to be LP blocker right from the start?

Usually, we tell people to master basic strokes and as he/she gets better, it's then up to him/her to venture to "unique style".


The LP blocker is a co-worker of mine. He was a recreational player when I got him to start playing more seriously. I helped him order rubbers from TT11 and then I showed him how to play the long pips blocking game. After about 2 months of practicing with the long pips, he played his first tournament and got a rating in the 1090's. In his second tournament, he gained like 15 points.
He still lacks fh technique even though his flat hits are ok but his topspin shot is nowhere close to perfect. His footwork is still lacking.  I worked with him a lot on decision making and placement which is one of the most critical things for a long pips blocker. His blocking technique is good but he lacks the aggressive push which I'm trying to teach him. His serves are sub 1000 level and I have not spent any larger amount of time working with him on that. I asked him what he prefers.. Learn the correct strokes first and then decide what style he wants to play or if he wants to win matches.. He wanted to win matches, so I chose the best way for him to do just that. From being just an average recreational player, he  now beats all but one of the other players at the office. The other player has a 1479 rating but he has played table tennis in India before and has the correct fh and bh technique.. He does beat the 1479 about 30% of the time but the 1479 still wins most matches with him.

I'm generally only coaching people who want to play the pushblock style or those who want to learn how to play AGAINST the pushblock style. My coaching is very specialized.. If someone want to learn the looper game, I refer them to friends of mine who are better teaching that.


Edited by Pushblocker - 08/20/2019 at 8:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/20/2019 at 11:27pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

Pushblocker, did you coach him to be LP blocker right from the start?

Usually, we tell people to master basic strokes and as he/she gets better, it's then up to him/her to venture to "unique style".


............... I asked him what he prefers.. Learn the correct strokes first and then decide what style he wants to play or if he wants to win matches.. He wanted to win matches, so I chose the best way for him to do just that. From being just an average recreational player, he  now beats all but one of the other players at the office. ....................

I'm generally only coaching people who want to play the pushblock style or those who want to learn how to play AGAINST the pushblock style. My coaching is very specialized.. If someone want to learn the looper game, I refer them to friends of mine who are better teaching that.


OK, I am just curious.  No judgement whatsoever.  

I know a local coach who is actually a very good looper, but somehow >90% of his (older) students are now pips player.  I once asked him the reason why he would suggest pips for most of his students, and he answered that most of his (older) students cannot progress far using traditional inverted set-up and most will leave the sport once got beaten too many times.  By using pips, most of his students are still playing TT right now.  So winning lots of matches are important aspect also for the motivation to continue play TT.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/21/2019 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:


OK, I am just curious.  No judgement whatsoever.  

I know a local coach who is actually a very good looper, but somehow >90% of his (older) students are now pips player.  I once asked him the reason why he would suggest pips for most of his students, and he answered that most of his (older) students cannot progress far using traditional inverted set-up and most will leave the sport once got beaten too many times.  By using pips, most of his students are still playing TT right now.  So winning lots of matches are important aspect also for the motivation to continue play TT.
None of the people I have ever coached have aspirations of getting to 2200+ etc. 
Most of them are happy if they can get to good club level. Most of them are my age... mid 40's to mid 50's in age.. They are not "developing juniors". The goal of the coaching is to get them to win matches and get a decent rating. I'd say that my overall goal is to get them to 1800 - 1900 level.. that would be a great success.. If I would be coaching a junior, I would not start them with pips but with all the fundamentals and introduce pips later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/22/2019 at 4:45am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

Pushblocker, did you coach him to be LP blocker right from the start?

Usually, we tell people to master basic strokes and as he/she gets better, it's then up to him/her to venture to "unique style".




I "...." coaching "......." who want to learn how to play AGAINST the pushblock style. 

that should be really useful. 

Ever wondered to do a youtube clip about that Smile ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/22/2019 at 9:21am
Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

Pushblocker, did you coach him to be LP blocker right from the start?

Usually, we tell people to master basic strokes and as he/she gets better, it's then up to him/her to venture to "unique style".




I "...." coaching "......." who want to learn how to play AGAINST the pushblock style. 

that should be really useful. 

Ever wondered to do a youtube clip about that Smile ?
Don't have a youtube clip but the concept is very simple.. Nothing that has not been discussed here before..

Strategy:
Option 1: (probably easier to execute)
every time your loop is blocked, push the resulting underspin deep to the pushblocker, preferably away from his body to make him move and prevent him from aggressively pushing against your underspin. Once the pushblocker returns your underspin, the resulting ball will have no spin or topspin and can be attacked from either side fairly easily.. Key is to keep your push deep as if you become short, the pushblocker will either use the angles or push agressively against that push, putting the attacker on the defense. If the resulting attack is blocked, repeat.. Patience is needed sometimes if the pushblocker is steady.

Option 2: (harder to execute but if someone can execute it good, it's extremely effective)
When opening up, open up soft with little topspin into the pushblockers pips.
If the return is low, repeat your dead loop  until one of the pushblocker's blocks is higher and then go for the flat hit kill. Keeping the spin low will allow a experienced attacker to keep attacking.

Other things to consider.. Pushblockers like underspin as that's the ball that is easy to accelerate.
Many pushblockers serve heavy underspin.. Don't push the underspin serves.. flip them.. It does not have to be an aggressive flip, just enough to take off the underspin from the ball. The pushblocker wants underspin. A good pushblocker only uses the block to set up that underspin push from the opponent so that they can either attack or push aggressively against that underspin with their pips..

Service: Best serves against a pushblocker is a fast, long serve with no spin or light topspin, deep into their pips.. Hard to return low for any pushblocker..

The coaching itself are just drills to practice exactly those strategies..


Edited by Pushblocker - 08/22/2019 at 9:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/22/2019 at 3:36pm
Some of the coaching I got didn't pay off until years later when I finally grasped it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/22/2019 at 3:57pm
Also keep in mind that if you don't have regular practice against this style it can be somewhat difficult to play against, even if you do understand what to do.  So setting up an opportunity to practice against it before you meet one of these players in a tournament/league is highly recommended, especially for mid level players who are more likely to run into this style. 

Unfortunately many players would rather bury their head in the sand and pretend this style doesn't exist.  Pushblockers rejoice when someone tells them "I hate playing against pip players!"  So even if it is true, never say it out loud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/22/2019 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

Pushblocker, did you coach him to be LP blocker right from the start?

Usually, we tell people to master basic strokes and as he/she gets better, it's then up to him/her to venture to "unique style".




I "...." coaching "......." who want to learn how to play AGAINST the pushblock style. 

that should be really useful. 

Ever wondered to do a youtube clip about that Smile ?
Don't have a youtube clip but the concept is very simple.. Nothing that has not been discussed here before..

Strategy:
Option 1: (probably easier to execute)
every time your loop is blocked, push the resulting underspin deep to the pushblocker, preferably away from his body to make him move and prevent him from aggressively pushing against your underspin. Once the pushblocker returns your underspin, the resulting ball will have no spin or topspin and can be attacked from either side fairly easily.. Key is to keep your push deep as if you become short, the pushblocker will either use the angles or push agressively against that push, putting the attacker on the defense. If the resulting attack is blocked, repeat.. Patience is needed sometimes if the pushblocker is steady.



yes, that's classics and that's how I try (that's a key word LOL) to play. But because I play with the pushblockers rarely, I have to think everytime what spin is coming back and play accordingly instead of using my normal "automated" reactions. Eventually I get too impatient and try smth stupid or I get mixed up and everything goes south. And pushblockers are very patient players Big smile

I am not even talking about some tricky rubbers with disruptive effect when you have no idea what is coming until the ball touches your racket and then you see that it was totally not what you anticipated and then off course you lost a point


Edited by Simas - 08/22/2019 at 4:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/22/2019 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

Pushblocker, did you coach him to be LP blocker right from the start?

Usually, we tell people to master basic strokes and as he/she gets better, it's then up to him/her to venture to "unique style".




I "...." coaching "......." who want to learn how to play AGAINST the pushblock style. 

that should be really useful. 

Ever wondered to do a youtube clip about that Smile ?
Don't have a youtube clip but the concept is very simple.. Nothing that has not been discussed here before..

Strategy:
Option 1: (probably easier to execute)
every time your loop is blocked, push the resulting underspin deep to the pushblocker, preferably away from his body to make him move and prevent him from aggressively pushing against your underspin. Once the pushblocker returns your underspin, the resulting ball will have no spin or topspin and can be attacked from either side fairly easily.. Key is to keep your push deep as if you become short, the pushblocker will either use the angles or push agressively against that push, putting the attacker on the defense. If the resulting attack is blocked, repeat.. Patience is needed sometimes if the pushblocker is steady.



yes, that's classics and that's how I try (that's a key word LOL) to play. But because I play with the pushblockers rarely, I have to think everytime what spin is coming back and play accordingly instead of using my normal "automated" reactions. Eventually I get too impatient and try smth stupid or I get mixed up and everything goes south. And pushblockers are very patient players Big smile

I am not even talking about some tricky rubbers with disruptive effect when you have no idea what is coming until the ball touches your racket and then you see that it was totally not what you anticipated and then off course you lost a point
The way to learn those patterns is practicing them over and over again so that they become automatic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/23/2019 at 1:12am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

Pushblocker, did you coach him to be LP blocker right from the start?

Usually, we tell people to master basic strokes and as he/she gets better, it's then up to him/her to venture to "unique style".




I "...." coaching "......." who want to learn how to play AGAINST the pushblock style. 

that should be really useful. 

Ever wondered to do a youtube clip about that Smile ?
Don't have a youtube clip but the concept is very simple.. Nothing that has not been discussed here before..

Strategy:
Option 1: (probably easier to execute)
every time your loop is blocked, push the resulting underspin deep to the pushblocker, preferably away from his body to make him move and prevent him from aggressively pushing against your underspin. Once the pushblocker returns your underspin, the resulting ball will have no spin or topspin and can be attacked from either side fairly easily.. Key is to keep your push deep as if you become short, the pushblocker will either use the angles or push agressively against that push, putting the attacker on the defense. If the resulting attack is blocked, repeat.. Patience is needed sometimes if the pushblocker is steady.



yes, that's classics and that's how I try (that's a key word LOL) to play. But because I play with the pushblockers rarely, I have to think everytime what spin is coming back and play accordingly instead of using my normal "automated" reactions. Eventually I get too impatient and try smth stupid or I get mixed up and everything goes south. And pushblockers are very patient players Big smile

I am not even talking about some tricky rubbers with disruptive effect when you have no idea what is coming until the ball touches your racket and then you see that it was totally not what you anticipated and then off course you lost a point
The way to learn those patterns is practicing them over and over again so that they become automatic.

And you need more pushblockers for that Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/23/2019 at 6:29am
Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:


And you need more pushblockers for that Big smile
True, but a good coach should prepare his students for ALL playing styles and practice playing against them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/23/2019 at 8:37am
Cracking news you are bringing on players PB. Always good to see Thumbs Up
 
Good improvements and rising up the levels does mean you have made a difference.
 
 
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