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    Posted: 07/26/2021 at 3:05pm
I went to webpage

It only shows the forms to submit but does not show actual nominations.
For example if I am not mistaken(or if she withdrew) ,  Petra Sorling is a candidate for ITTF president but it does not show her nomination. Same for all other committees.

One can only wonder if ITTF is not being transparent & hiding this information , especially Sorling's candidacy

Most importantly it does not show any proposition for rule changes etc. Does that mean, no propositions have been submitted yet or would they magically appear out of thin air the day after AGM 2021 ?




Edited by mafre76 - 07/26/2021 at 5:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2021 at 6:13pm
The deadline to submit nominations and propositions is still a month away...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mafre76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2021 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

The deadline to submit nominations and propositions is still a month away...

Is there something wrong in posting them as they come in. Why does it have to be a secret ?

Anyway , I may be wrong but I have never seen ITTF release these details soon after deadline passes.

   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2021 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by mafre76 mafre76 wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

The deadline to submit nominations and propositions is still a month away...

Is there something wrong in posting them as they come in. Why does it have to be a secret ?

Anyway , I may be wrong but I have never seen ITTF release these details soon after deadline passes.

   

Geez... the meeting will be at the end of November! You realize that there's something else going on currently that may keep people busy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mafre76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2021 at 10:02pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by mafre76 mafre76 wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

The deadline to submit nominations and propositions is still a month away...

Is there something wrong in posting them as they come in. Why does it have to be a secret ?

Anyway , I may be wrong but I have never seen ITTF release these details soon after deadline passes.

   

Geez... the meeting will be at the end of November! You realize that there's something else going on currently that may keep people busy?


You talk as if I am "demanding" decisions on these propositions today.
What is wrong in showing Petra's submission for example ?  Why are they hiding it ?
Also you conveniently ignored my reference to past AGMs.    I am not attacking you but it made me curious as to why you are aggressively defending the ITTF.  No worries. I am just thinking out loud.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2021 at 10:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mafre76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2021 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Here's how "they're hiding" Petra's nomination...:

I admit I did not see this as I don't go around fishing for such information all over ITTF.com . But this is still sort of hiding the information because this could have been easily posted in the area where they have nomination documents

Again not a big deal to me. Just an innocent question. Did not mean to offend you

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tisch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2021 at 10:02am
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

The deadline to submit nominations and propositions is still a month away...

It is now a month after the deadline to submit. I was just curious if you saw them listed somewhere on ITTF website ? 
I still only see the submission forms at 


Thanks 


Edited by Tisch - 09/20/2021 at 10:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2021 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by Tisch Tisch wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

The deadline to submit nominations and propositions is still a month away...

It is now a month after the deadline to submit. I was just curious if you saw them listed somewhere on ITTF website ? 
I still only see the submission forms at 


Thanks 


Look again, the nominations are now posted on that page (first item, dated Sep 6).

The propositions and resolutions not yet, so keep checking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tisch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2021 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by Tisch Tisch wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

The deadline to submit nominations and propositions is still a month away...

It is now a month after the deadline to submit. I was just curious if you saw them listed somewhere on ITTF website ? 
I still only see the submission forms at 


Thanks 


Look again, the nominations are now posted on that page (first item, dated Sep 6).

The propositions and resolutions not yet, so keep checking.
Thanks  

I made a mistake. I meant propositions & resolutions
Not nominations.




Edited by Tisch - 09/20/2021 at 6:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2021 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by Tisch Tisch wrote:

Thanks  

I made a mistake. I meant propositions & resolutions
Not nominations.



Well, since you're so eager to see them I'm sure you'll let us know here as soon as they're posted. (And on any other table tennis forums where you may have asked the same question.) There sure mustn't be any "secrets"!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/21/2021 at 10:34am
October 21 is the deadline for the documents to be lay out on ittf site.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tisch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2021 at 8:39am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

October 21 is the deadline for the documents to be lay out on ittf site.

Just curious as to why the list of nominations can be released much earlier but the propositions & resolutions have to be held off two months more & released only a month before AGM,  though they all have same submission deadline.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2021 at 12:52pm
A new set of documents for AGM has been posted, including the Propositions:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2021 at 6:34pm
It's now been almost 6 hours since I posted the link to the AGM Propositions. And yet neither "Tisch" nor "mafre76" have responded and revealed their reactions. What is taking them so long? What are they hiding? What kind of conspiracy are they preparing? Wacko  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2021 at 6:55am
Be prepared for ittf to have the blades ittf approved. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2021 at 7:51am
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Be prepared for ittf to have the blades ittf approved. 



Only professional players should worry about. It doesn't matter for us
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2021 at 10:50am
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Be prepared for ittf to have the blades ittf approved. 



Only professional players should worry about. It doesn't matter for us

Disagree. It will be like joining local tournaments that require ittf approved rubbers. Time will come, local tourneys will require that too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tisch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/2021 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Be prepared for ittf to have the blades ittf approved. 



Only professional players should worry about. It doesn't matter for us

Disagree. It will be like joining local tournaments that require ittf approved rubbers. Time will come, local tourneys will require that too. 

Then what happens to custom blade makers like SDC ? They will be imprisoned ?

What happens to current custom blades ? ITTF will hold a buyback party with no questions asked about illegal composite layer composition and any residual speed glue / boosters  trace evidence.

Blades don't kill chops.  Loopers kill chops


Edited by Tisch - 10/05/2021 at 1:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/08/2021 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by Tisch Tisch wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Be prepared for ittf to have the blades ittf approved. 



Only professional players should worry about. It doesn't matter for us

Disagree. It will be like joining local tournaments that require ittf approved rubbers. Time will come, local tourneys will require that too. 

Then what happens to custom blade makers like SDC ? They will be imprisoned ?

What happens to current custom blades ? ITTF will hold a buyback party with no questions asked about illegal composite layer composition and any residual speed glue / boosters  trace evidence.

Blades don't kill chops.  Loopers kill chops

You are barking up on the wrong tree. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ergosquare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/10/2021 at 9:15pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Originally posted by Tisch Tisch wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Be prepared for ittf to have the blades ittf approved. 



Only professional players should worry about. It doesn't matter for us

Disagree. It will be like joining local tournaments that require ittf approved rubbers. Time will come, local tourneys will require that too. 

Then what happens to custom blade makers like SDC ? They will be imprisoned ?

What happens to current custom blades ? ITTF will hold a buyback party with no questions asked about illegal composite layer composition and any residual speed glue / boosters  trace evidence.

Blades don't kill chops.  Loopers kill chops

You are barking up on the wrong tree. 


So what is the correct tree then? Wink

I agree at least with the first part he wrote.
It would destroy blade customization and its businesses like SDC for no good reason.
I don't understand which problem the ittf tries to solve with this. I've never heard any issues about players getting accused for using inappropriate blades in competetive play as there would be no real benefits in doing so.

The other side is the practicability of controls and standarts.
Blades would need the same kind of mark/stamp for identification as rubbers have including the ITTF symbol and the serial number, which could be problematic for different reasons (place on the blade and ability to fake).
And I can't imagine that the ITTF would ban all current existing blades because they don't have that mark (and if they did they would be crazy). So - if you're using a non-marked blade - how to proof if you bought your unmarked blade before the mark existed? It is not possible realisticly.
To make it more clear here my scenario: Blades become ITTF-approved but I buy a custom blade at a later point in time. When I go to tournament I could say that I played with this blade all the time and specifically before blades became approved.
So the only option for the ITTF would be to ban all non-marked blades in the first place which would be the worst decision in all sports history imo.


Edited by Ergosquare - 10/10/2021 at 9:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2021 at 7:52am
Originally posted by Tisch Tisch wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Be prepared for ittf to have the blades ittf approved. 



Only professional players should worry about. It doesn't matter for us

Disagree. It will be like joining local tournaments that require ittf approved rubbers. Time will come, local tourneys will require that too. 

Then what happens to custom blade makers like SDC ? They will be imprisoned ?

What happens to current custom blades ? ITTF will hold a buyback party with no questions asked about illegal composite layer composition and any residual speed glue / boosters  trace evidence.

Blades don't kill chops.  Loopers kill chops

In summary, from the perspective of the sport of table tennis, this is nuts.

It is, logically, a blatant ploy to support the equipment manufacturers' income, and a good one for that.  [Who proposed it?  I want names.]  I don't think the manufacturers have enough members in their pockets to get this passed in the general assembly.  That expressed, I also don't think the independent blade makers have a strong lobbying presence in these corridors, so they stand exposed and vulnerable.

If this passes, then it serves as another indication of the decline of senior international leadership and the growing encroachment of the industrial class.

Speaking of equipment, I saw my first non-black and non-red sheet of rubber in use (in the modern era).  It was bright green and pretty and stood out.  Long pips from Tibhar I was told.  At least one person at the tournament was sufficiently impressed to express his affection by planning on buying a sheet, while uttering not a word about the playing characteristics of the rubber.  

This, to me, is the first ever in history of hearing of a rubber sheet purchase based on color.  I have, not infrequently, heard expressed desires to purchase a blade due to it being "beautiful" or having "elegant construction," so the rubber sector is beginning to catch up with blades in the area of equipment purchase justifications.  [Is Mjamja a susceptible candidate here now that he is in the dark shadow of the dark side?  Anything is possible.]  One benefit may be that when the package arrives, the (again) raised eyebrow of the wife may be lowered when she sees the attractiveness of the rubber prior to the procurer rushing to the basement looking for the glue and scissors.

Environmental color has a not-inconspicuous place in sport since the dawn of industrialization.  Tiger Woods would wear red on Sundays, as he knows red is intimidating to opponents.  Also, visiting team locker rooms in stadia used for collision sports have been painted pink to induce passivity.  Now a new and uncharted dimension has been added to our sport, for what must be now mined are the varying effects of the rubber colors on the behavior of the opponents.  [Was bright green really the correct selection against the two-wing looper from Pennsylvania, or should I have gone with the pastel blue?]

One complication that may arise is the case of the damaged racket during play.  The replacement must be the "same" as the original.  Does that stipulation include color sameness?

Japanese orthodox medicine incorporates placebos routinely in treating patients.  There is good science around the effectiveness of placebo "medications" being influenced by color.  For instance, red is good for stimulants, while blue is a better color for sedating the hyper.  This line of thought must be applicable to table tennis.  We are of much good fortune that the EJers will lead us well here.  I await their observations.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2021 at 8:33am
Is there a specific proposal to make blades IITF-approved, or it's just a rumor and folks are freaking out for no good reason (besides an opportunity to bash ITTF)?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2021 at 11:06am
Claudia Herwig, oen of the ITTF commitee responded in my email to her about this. She said that if ITTF can regulate balls, nets, tables and rubbers, why not blades and yes this will be happening soon. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2021 at 11:25am
Donn, Tibhar Grass is green. It makes sense.
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T-shaped handles is the concern.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ergosquare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2021 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Claudia Herwig, oen of the ITTF commitee responded in my email to her about this. She said that if ITTF can regulate balls, nets, tables and rubbers, why not blades

I already said why not. They would have to ban all existing blades! (otherwise it wouldn't be effective)
Balls and rubbers are products, which get replaced frequently one way or the other.
Some pips were banned, I didn't like that either, but OK, more people benefited than suffered.
Celluloid balls got replaced by plastic balls, I didn't like that either like a big share of all players, but there were reasons for that change at least.
No one suffers if a net gets replaced.
Balls, tables, nets in different clubs/cities/countries should be as close together as possible anyway so that almost everyone plays under similar circumstances.
If blades would have to be approved extremely many people would suffer, but of course unfortunately there is a little group that benefits ... the big TT companies.

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

T-shaped handles is the concern.

What is the issue with that?

Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:


Only professional players should worry about. It doesn't matter for us

I also hope that there would be a huge backlash from professional players.


Edited by Ergosquare - 10/11/2021 at 4:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2021 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by Ergosquare Ergosquare wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Claudia Herwig, oen of the ITTF commitee responded in my email to her about this. She said that if ITTF can regulate balls, nets, tables and rubbers, why not blades

I already said why not. They would have to ban all existing blades! (otherwise it wouldn't be effective)
Balls and rubbers are products, which get replaced frequently one way or the other.
Some pips were banned, I didn't like that either, but OK, more people benefited than suffered.
Celluloid balls got replaced by plastic balls, I didn't like that either like a big share of all players, but there were reasons for that change at least.
No one suffers if a net gets replaced.
Balls, tables, nets in different clubs/cities/countries should be as close together as possible anyway so that almost everyone plays under similar circumstances.
If blades would have to be approved extremely many people would suffer, but of course unfortunately there is a little group that benefits ... the big TT companies.

That is incorrect. They do not need to ban all the blades now. Please check the older rubbers like Mark V and Sriver. They do not have the serial number in the LARC but they are still legal. Same can happen with the blades.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ergosquare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2021 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Originally posted by Ergosquare Ergosquare wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Claudia Herwig, oen of the ITTF commitee responded in my email to her about this. She said that if ITTF can regulate balls, nets, tables and rubbers, why not blades

I already said why not. They would have to ban all existing blades! (otherwise it wouldn't be effective)
Balls and rubbers are products, which get replaced frequently one way or the other.
Some pips were banned, I didn't like that either, but OK, more people benefited than suffered.
Celluloid balls got replaced by plastic balls, I didn't like that either like a big share of all players, but there were reasons for that change at least.
No one suffers if a net gets replaced.
Balls, tables, nets in different clubs/cities/countries should be as close together as possible anyway so that almost everyone plays under similar circumstances.
If blades would have to be approved extremely many people would suffer, but of course unfortunately there is a little group that benefits ... the big TT companies.

That is incorrect. They do not need to ban all the blades now. Please check the older rubbers like Mark V and Sriver. They do not have the serial number in the LARC but they are still legal. Same can happen with the blades.


This comparison seems a bit flawed to me because something like self-made rubbers doesn't exist.

What is the idea?

Case 1: all existing (non-marked) blades are allowed to use further on infinetely and they even are available for purchase.
Then why introduce the approval in the first place?

Case 2: all existing (non-marked) blades are allowed to use further on infinetely but new blades have to have the mark of approval.
In that case my scenario comes back in play: I get to a tournament with a blade that I built myself just after blade approval got introduced and my opponent calls the referree because of my blade, but I will just say that I have played with this blade for over 15 years and he would have no proof that this is false.
Now you might say "OK, they only have to ban customized blades from blade manufactures and normal blades like e.g. a Butterfly TB ALC are allowed to use further on", but how to identify a customized blade? Good wood workers will be able to let a customized blade look exactly like a Butterfly TB ALC and no one will be able to tell that it is not a TB ALC.

Case 3: all (non-marked) blades are allowed to use for a certain amount of years but become forbidden after that.
The fact that it happens is the problem, not when it will happen

I can't imagine another case that would make sense.

Please tell if I have made an error in thinking.

Edited by Ergosquare - 10/11/2021 at 8:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/11/2021 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Donn, Tibhar Grass is green. It makes sense.

Well, that is why we have people like you on the Forum, to make sense of the sense for those in need.

Any suggested new colors for Hurricane and Dignics?

Thanks.
"Pierre Curie's greatest discovery was Marie Sklodowski." Frederick Soddy
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