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I've been banned from Princeton Pong event

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DonnOlsen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2020 at 11:29am
Hi,

An update on the Governors' clash: one of the two Marylanders I know of who had registered for the tournament is no longer in the list on Omnipong.  [He was on the wait list for one of the events.]  I mentioned the quarantine requirement to his mom a few days previously, of which she was unaware of at the time.

Thanks. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiggs_1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2020 at 1:20pm
Sweden and Brazil never shutdown. Brazil isn’t any worse off than India and Sweden’s mortality rate is on par or better than most EU countries that did shut down. People relying on a Vaccine for a virus are going to be disappointed as it won’t be better than flu vaccine. The purpose of shutdown was not to avoid the disease but flatten the curve so medical facilities are not overwhelmed. You have to open sometime. The destroyed lives from destroyed economies will take a far greater toll than Covid. You protect the vulnerable, boost your immune system and slowly open. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2020 at 7:50pm
Hmmm.  To draw a proper conclusion  you should probably compare Sweden to Denmark,  Norway and Finland ( instead of Spain or UK).  If you look at deaths per 100K population 
(the key statistic) Brazil is 20-times worse than India,  although I suspect numbers from both those countries are hard to get from remote areas.  And staying open hasn't helped the Swedish economy  in any noticeable way (from the stats you can get online, I'm certainly not an economist) 

We have no idea how effective a Covid-19 vaccine will be or when we'll get it but there are quite a few ways in which SARS-COV-2 is different from influenza viruses and I am optimistic that Covid-19 vaccines will work pretty well (I teach at a medical school and I follow this pretty closely).  The fact is that only time will tell. 

But preventing people from traveling from hot spots (like most US sunbelt  states) to areas where cases have been declining makes good epidemiological sense. Those are the kinds of measures that have worked in other countries.  A pingpong  tournament is maybe not a good reason for people to travel from hot spots.   With that said,  I cant  figure why Maryland is on the hot spot list.  



Edited by Baal - 07/28/2020 at 7:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/29/2020 at 9:37am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Hmmm.  To draw a proper conclusion  you should probably compare Sweden to Denmark,  Norway and Finland ( instead of Spain or UK).  If you look at deaths per 100K population 
(the key statistic) Brazil is 20-times worse than India,  although I suspect numbers from both those countries are hard to get from remote areas.  And staying open hasn't helped the Swedish economy  in any noticeable way (from the stats you can get online, I'm certainly not an economist) 

We have no idea how effective a Covid-19 vaccine will be or when we'll get it but there are quite a few ways in which SARS-COV-2 is different from influenza viruses and I am optimistic that Covid-19 vaccines will work pretty well (I teach at a medical school and I follow this pretty closely).  The fact is that only time will tell. 

But preventing people from traveling from hot spots (like most US sunbelt  states) to areas where cases have been declining makes good epidemiological sense. Those are the kinds of measures that have worked in other countries.  A pingpong  tournament is maybe not a good reason for people to travel from hot spots.   With that said,  I cant  figure why Maryland is on the hot spot list.  


That's interesting. I was just admiring Sweden's fantastic-looking curve. I've never heard the argument that not shutting down didnt help their economy.  That's quite a judo flip! I'll take a look at that. Econ was my first major, so Im interested.  My guess is the economy is heavily intertwined with neighbors who did shut down.  Looking at a couple of articles, they seem to think the swedes more or less shut down voluntarily. Certainly possible.

I do agree with the previous poster that economic impact does have an impact on misery, and even death, and that it tends to get overlooked, or cast as greed. Esp when we go into debt I really dont like it. If the system was to collapse...well there would be deaths.

None of that excuses risky behavior 


Edited by cole_ely - 07/29/2020 at 9:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/29/2020 at 9:24pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:


That's interesting. I was just admiring Sweden's fantastic-looking curve. I've never heard the argument that not shutting down didnt help their economy.  That's quite a judo flip! I'll take a look at that. Econ was my first major, so Im interested.  My guess is the economy is heavily intertwined with neighbors who did shut down.  Looking at a couple of articles, they seem to think the swedes more or less shut down voluntarily. Certainly possible.

None of that excuses risky behavior 


I think that's it.  A global pandemic screws up all sorts of things. Like I said, I know virtually nothing about economics, but I think this is one of those things where maybe it is best to wait several months or a year to see how it all works out.  



Edited by Baal - 07/29/2020 at 9:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2020 at 1:23am
Yeah, I'd seen similar.  My only thing is, I think it's kind of cherry-picking to compare them to "other nordic countries."  Are we sure they don't have traffic patterns and contact that run more into comparison with the rest of europe?  Why not consider the entire west? That said, they sure did something right in denmark and I'm sure they interact a lot with everybody.

And I also don't doubt that they've had a higher death rate.  But presumably they're further along the curve, while other countries are still experiencing little waves. To some degree flattening the curve equals postponement to keep the hospitals steady. You might think other countries would catch up a little now until the vaccines hopefully make the conversation somewhat moot. 

What I notice is that they're down to single digits now, even one.


Edited by cole_ely - 07/30/2020 at 1:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2020 at 4:33am
I lived there for awhile.  Norway has a robust oil industry and is far more of a tourist destination than Sweden.   Denmark has a border with Germany, although probably the largest traffic interaction  itnormally has is with Sweden.  Copenhagen and Stockholm are pretty equivalent.   So no, Cole, it is the obvious comparison. Also similar climate,  latitude and genetics. 

Common sense has to prevail. We know how the virus gets from person A to person  B.  

Sweden made these policies knowing full well that there would be health consequences for their people.  Denmark,  Norway  and Finland took different actions and it is reflected in their fatalities100/K people.   Sweden made the decision that there would be economic advantages to their policy that outweighed the health effect,   and possibly also following the "herd immunity " theory.  Eventually we'll see if their economy fares better.  Of course  Norway also takes a hit from the decline in oil prices.  But don't have any illusions about the idea that Sweden's decision  to  not shut down was without effects on spread of the disease.   It was a policy developed largely by one person in the  government and it was protested quite vigorously by Swedish infectious disease specialists who work at universities and hospitals (but accepted by most Swedish people).   

In any case more than half of Swedish people live alone and they offer universal  healthcare.   So even if you could argue for it there, the US is quite different.. 

Again, the thing I call attention to is that the situation in the US is very different from Europe. The disease here is taking much longer to come down and the economic consequences are very bad.  

People here are allowed and in some circles ENCOURAGED to engage in risky behavior. 


Edited by Baal - 07/30/2020 at 5:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2020 at 11:12am
You clearly know a lot more about it than I do. I've never even been there.   I'd be curious to know who you meant with the last line, but maybe it's better that I don't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tiggs_1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2020 at 8:50am
Sweden’s new cases have gone down, almost an inverted V curve and they are reporting almost no new mortality. You have to open sometime. The cases in Texas and Florida are coming down and may follow Sweden’s pattern. You will have more health problems caused by Financial ruin and stress resulting from Covid shutdown than Covid itself. Teach people to boost immunity, protect the vulnerable and open. The purpose of shutdown was to flatten the curve and that has been accomplished. The virus doesn’t kill you, it’s the overreaching response from a compromised immune system that does.

Edited by Tiggs_1 - 07/31/2020 at 8:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2020 at 7:42am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

An update on the Governors' clash: one of the two Marylanders I know of who had registered for the tournament is no longer in the list on Omnipong.  [He was on the wait list for one of the events.]  I mentioned the quarantine requirement to his mom a few days previously, of which she was unaware of at the time.

Thanks. 

Another update: The second of the two Marylanders I mentioned has also dropped out of the list of entrants; both are now gone.  However, two more Marylanders have recently appeared on the list.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2020 at 7:12pm
Sweden 2nd quarter GDP contracted -8,6% compared to all Europe -12%. So different strategies, different death rates per 100k and nearly same drop in economy. It does not seem that Swedish strategy is paying off at the moment...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiggs_1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2020 at 7:24pm
Since it’s a global economy, Sweden’s economy was expected to contract. Economy did contract less than other EU countries, and 3.6% is not insignificant considering few other EU countries in the mix didn’t have a strict shutdown. Compare it to US or Britain, Spain, Italy or France. Also they have probably reached herd immunity while we are far from that in the US. 

Edited by Tiggs_1 - 08/08/2020 at 7:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2020 at 9:03pm
The tournament was very covid19 influenced and just about ever reasonable precaution I can think of was taken.  Tables were reduced and well spaced out.  You had to wear a mask if you were outside the playing area.  Players did not change sides.  Tables were to be wiped down by the winner after every match.  Balls were sanitized between matches.  The doors to the playing hall and the main entrance were kept open through out, which unfortunately introduced an element of humidity that affected some players.

It wasn't an entirely fun experience but if we can keep TT alive during the pandemic by doing this, I will oblige.  Hope anyone else who made it had fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2020 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

The tournament was very covid19 influenced and just about ever reasonable precaution I can think of was taken.  Tables were reduced and well spaced out.  You had to wear a mask if you were outside the playing area.  Players did not change sides.  Tables were to be wiped down by the winner after every match.  Balls were sanitized between matches.  The doors to the playing hall and the main entrance were kept open through out, which unfortunately introduced an element of humidity that affected some players.

It wasn't an entirely fun experience but if we can keep TT alive during the pandemic by doing this, I will oblige.  Hope anyone else who made it had fun.

Thank you for the report.  The two Marylanders are in the results.  Did you observe anything associated with the two week quarantine requirement?

Thanks again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2020 at 4:27am
I don't know who the two MD players are or what event(s) they played.  You were asked to sign a questionnaire about your travel and exposure in the last 14 days.  Your temperature was also taken at the entrance.  So I guess they must have responded in ways to those procedures that gave the organizers confidence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2020 at 6:30am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I don't know who the two MD players are or what event(s) they played.  You were asked to sign a questionnaire about your travel and exposure in the last 14 days.  Your temperature was also taken at the entrance.  So I guess they must have responded in ways to those procedures that gave the organizers confidence.

Thanks for the response.  The eminent Mr. Larry Hodges has informed me the two players in question, though still listed as residing in Maryland, have moved to New Jersey.


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