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Lee Sangsu Wins Korean Olympic Trials

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    Posted: 02/01/2021 at 7:56pm
Lee Sangsu defeated Jeoung Youngsik 4-0 yesterday in the Korean Olympic trials yesterday to join Jang Woojin in representing South Korea at the men's singles event at the Tokyo Olympics.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2021 at 8:02pm
Wait what? I thought I just saw him getting destroyed by An Jae Hyun the WTTC semifinalist. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgesandnets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2021 at 8:09pm
An Jaehyun lost to two other players in the round robin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2021 at 10:12pm
How was the first spot allocated [that went to Jang].

Also,  sucks for An Jaehyun, climb the mountain then fall down on the descent.

As an aside, I'm really not a fan of Jeoung Youngsik's movement economy. I really think him and Niwa sabotage themselves with their power saver energy mode. Niwa's speed should be really high, dude weighs 52kg - he should be using his small and light frame as a mechanism to have an advantage in the speed/movement to make up for the disadvantages his body gives him [low reach due to small arms, and low power due to a lack of weight]

 So many times the unforced error / middle is found because they move less than other top pros, and I really don't think its a conditioning issue.




Edited by Basquests - 02/01/2021 at 10:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2021 at 10:49pm
Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:

How was the first spot allocated [that went to Jang].

Also,  sucks for An Jaehyun, climb the mountain then fall down on the descent.

As an aside, I'm really not a fan of Jeoung Youngsik's movement economy. I really think him and Niwa sabotage themselves with their power saver energy mode. Niwa's speed should be really high, dude weighs 52kg - he should be using his small and light frame as a mechanism to have an advantage in the speed/movement to make up for the disadvantages his body gives him [low reach due to small arms, and low power due to a lack of weight]

 So many times the unforced error / middle is found because they move less than other top pros, and I really don't think its a conditioning issue.



I saw that match recently and thought An was in top tier form, didn't expect him to lose to those two guys lol.... 

 I kinda agree with you with Niwa and Jeong, they kinda have lazy mechanics for both BH and FH kinda like Oh Sang Eun in the past. But that also is their speciality coz this produces quite different balls than what others are used to. I think Niwa moves quite fast personally, but sometimes he really goes kamikaze on his shots lol like a gambler and other times he's just lazy haha... The funniest match I've seen him play was when he lost to some unknown US guy, it was just hilarious how bad he played LOL

Jang Woojin definitely deserves the spot after his excellent performances at the world cup and grand finals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2021 at 10:54pm
Watching it now. Jeoung Youngsik just isn't doing enough with the ball. Lee Sangsu has too much time to pick him apart, very little rally pressure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2021 at 11:04pm
It would not surprise me to learn Jeoung Youngsik is injured. He whiffed on a forehand near the end of the second game and was wincing in pain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2021 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:


I saw that match recently and thought An was in top tier form, didn't expect him to lose to those two guys lol.... 

 I kinda agree with you with Niwa and Jeong, they kinda have lazy mechanics for both BH and FH kinda like Oh Sang Eun in the past. But that also is their speciality coz this produces quite different balls than what others are used to. I think Niwa moves quite fast personally, but sometimes he really goes kamikaze on his shots lol like a gambler and other times he's just lazy haha... The funniest match I've seen him play was when he lost to some unknown US guy, it was just hilarious how bad he played LOL

Jang Woojin definitely deserves the spot after his excellent performances at the world cup and grand finals.

Yeah, it can definitely lead to upsets if you are not outputting much movement.  I'm currently playing with a foot injury and moving around at 50-70% [slowly healing], the %'s for every shot almost are down, which is why it annoys me pro's are intentionally handicapping themselves.

Re: Jang, I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it, I'm simply asking how Korea selects the positions, and whether Jang won another tournament and thus already pre-qualified, or whether he was selected above everyone by selectors/coaches. Selections in most sports are notorious for being mismanaged, so I'm interested to see how big countries do this in individual sports.

Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

It would not surprise me to learn Jeoung Youngsik is injured. He whiffed on a forehand near the end of the second game and was wincing in pain.

To be fair, I wince in pain every time I see him deliberately play a backhand from his forehand side, when he definitely had enough time to either step around the ball to play a FH, or move right and play a higher % BH, with more quality.

The worse position you are in, the lower the quality and/or % of your shot. Yes, he's used to playing like this, so the tradeoff is not as extreme, but it's so easy for the elite players to gameplan to  punish this weakness.


Edited by Basquests - 02/01/2021 at 11:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgesandnets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2021 at 1:04am
I don't know the details about direct qualification. Perhaps someone from Korea could give an answer. However, I don't think it's a coincidence that both Jang Woojin and Jeon Jihee did not have to play the trials and are the highest world-ranked player from Korea for their respective gender.

Unfortunately, it seems KTTA has deleted the Youtube stream from day 1, so I can't go back and watch what happened to An Jaehyun. However, from the KTTA's posted day 1 results, Cho Daesong also got three games off Lee Sangsu and two games off of Jeoung Youngsik, so it's not like he's a scrub. Cho is also only 18, so the future of Korean men's table tennis looks quite bright.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2021 at 2:42am
No, KTTA didn't remove the streams for Day 1. They simply didn't start streaming until Day 2.

My thread on TTD. As you'll see, it's a total mess. Even worse, they kept changing the match schedule. They said they would stream all matches on all 3 tables, but they couldn't get them to work and after an hour they realized they could stream 1 table only. Another hour later, they somehow got table 2 streaming on another channel. They stuck to this for the next day.

BTW, there's still another round of round robin.

Edited by zeio - 02/02/2021 at 6:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgesandnets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2021 at 9:44am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

No, KTTA didn't remove the streams for Day 1. They simply didn't start streaming until Day 2.

I watched the Youtube stream on Day 1, and it seems others did as well.


Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:


My thread on TTD. As you'll see, it's a total mess. Even worse, they kept changing the match schedule. They said they would stream all matches on all 3 tables, but they couldn't get them to work and after an hour they realized they could stream 1 table only. Another hour later, they somehow got table 2 streaming on another channel. They stuck to this for the next day.

BTW, there's still another round of round robin.


I see. So based on the KTTA link in your thread, it seems that Jang Woojin was indeed selected by World Rank and then the second spot will be determined by the combined performance in both round robins? Some of the commenters on Youtube seemed to believe that Lee Sangsu had already won the thing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgesandnets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2021 at 9:47am
and it also seems that the third team spot will be determined by national coach's selection
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote balldance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2021 at 12:32pm
i believe it’s not finished yet. Lee Sangsu is only leading after the first round. There is a second round in the coming days.
Hope An JaeHyun can take the spot because he is the one that is most likely to upset the best world ranked player (apart from Jang Woojin)
If Lee Sangsu won this, a team of Lee Sangsu, Jang Woojin and possibly Jeong YoungSik sounds a little boring, no surprise factor.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgesandnets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2021 at 4:38am
Yes there was another round of matches today, and I believe the final set of matches will be tomorrow. An Jaehyun defeated Lee Sangsu 4-2 today, and if the final qualification is based on who had the best record across both round robins, then I think An Jaehyun should control his own destiny (meaning if he wins all his remaining matches against Lim Jonghoon and Jeoung Youngsik, he's in). I've posted Day 3 results and a summary of the An Jaehyun vs Lee Sangsu match here: https://edgesandnets.com/2021/02/03/korea-olympic-trials-anjaehyun-defeats-leesangsu/


Edited by edgesandnets - 02/03/2021 at 4:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2021 at 7:40am
Originally posted by balldance balldance wrote:

i believe it’s not finished yet. Lee Sangsu is only leading after the first round. There is a second round in the coming days.
Hope An JaeHyun can take the spot because he is the one that is most likely to upset the best world ranked player (apart from Jang Woojin)
If Lee Sangsu won this, a team of Lee Sangsu, Jang Woojin and possibly Jeong YoungSik sounds a little boring, no surprise factor.


I too think An Jae Hyun is a much better player in general, although a bit rough on the edges but he has that killer game like Jang Woojin which can create upsets easily when they're in good form. Lee Sang Su is too clumsy in his footwork imo. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2021 at 10:31am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by balldance balldance wrote:

i believe it’s not finished yet. Lee Sangsu is only leading after the first round. There is a second round in the coming days.
Hope An JaeHyun can take the spot because he is the one that is most likely to upset the best world ranked player (apart from Jang Woojin)
If Lee Sangsu won this, a team of Lee Sangsu, Jang Woojin and possibly Jeong YoungSik sounds a little boring, no surprise factor.


I too think An Jae Hyun is a much better player in general, although a bit rough on the edges but he has that killer game like Jang Woojin which can create upsets easily when they're in good form. Lee Sang Su is too clumsy in his footwork imo. 
Lee is like Ryu one sided game just high power attack not all round like ahn jae hyun
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgesandnets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2021 at 11:17am
After all the confusion (sorry everyone!) Lee has won the qualification after all. This has been verified by several Korean source (h/t to zeio). I posted complete round robin results here: https://edgesandnets.com/2021/02/04/korean-olympic-trials-day-4-lee-sangsu-qualifies-for-2020-tokyo-olympics/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2021 at 2:45pm
Yes too bad for An. I really like his game, and he should have beaten Falck at the Worlds in the semifinals. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2021 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

Yes too bad for An. I really like his game, and he should have beaten Falck at the Worlds in the semifinals. 


Oh well... he's young and will have many opportunities to prove himself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KLHfans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2021 at 6:48pm
Hi all:

I think both Jang Woojin and Jeon Jihee directly qualify for the first spot due to their highest world ranking among the Korean Men and Women teams respectively.
Then, the 2-round RR is used to determined the second single spot and looks liked Lee SangSu won the first RR but not sure if there is another round of RR.

Once the last single spot is determined for both men and women, then the third spot (team only) is determined by the Korean coach team.

That is why Jang WooJin and Jeon Jihee are not required to participate in the RR.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2021 at 10:25pm
AJH: I beat LSS twice in final selection 1 and 2, and we both have a record of 6W2L, yet LSS gets the spot, just because I finished 3rd(2W2L) then 1st(4W0L) and LSS 1st(3W1L) then 2nd(3W1L). WTH?

Edited by zeio - 02/04/2021 at 10:28pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2021 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

AJH: I beat LSS twice in final selection 1 and 2, and we both have a record of 6W2L, yet LSS gets the spot, just because I finished 3rd(2W2L) then 1st(4W0L) and LSS 1st(3W1L) then 2nd(3W1L). WTH?

Sounds like a pretty shitty unfair system tbh -> wouldn't the superior head-to-head record break ties like this?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2021 at 12:02am
Hi,

A Korean friend of mine just told me that the young girl phenom (do not know her name; I believe she is 16 years old) has qualified for the second spot.  She defeated the known top players.

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgesandnets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2021 at 11:21am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

AJH: I beat LSS twice in final selection 1 and 2, and we both have a record of 6W2L, yet LSS gets the spot, just because I finished 3rd(2W2L) then 1st(4W0L) and LSS 1st(3W1L) then 2nd(3W1L). WTH?

Sounds like a pretty shitty unfair system tbh -> wouldn't the superior head-to-head record break ties like this?!

The men's singles results does seem quite unfair for An Jaehyun. The only potential reasoning (which for the record I do not agree with) I can see behind it is that RR performance > matches > games > points, and complaining that An won more matches would be akin to that guy at your local club's round robin who wants to count who won the most games instead of matches to see who won the round robin. I'm guessing if Lee had gotten third in the second RR, then An would have won based on the head-to-head tiebreaker, but that is just speculation on my part.


Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

A Korean friend of mine just told me that the young girl phenom (do not know her name; I believe she is 16 years old) has qualified for the second spot.  She defeated the known top players.

Thanks

Shin Yubin (WR #94) qualified for the women's spot. She is only 17 years old and broke Ryu Seungmin's record as the youngest ever table tennis Olympian from Korea. (Source: https://news.sbs.co.kr/news/endPage.do?news_id=N1006198285, my brief English translation/summary: https://edgesandnets.com/2021/02/04/17-year-old-shin-yubin-becomes-youngest-ever-korean-olympic-table-tennis-player/)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2021 at 1:06pm
The usual order of precedence is H2H competition between the tied players, whether it be single round-robin or double round-robin. No wonder the KTTA is plagued by controversies.

Volleyball
http://www.ahsaa.org/public/docs/TIE%20BREAKING%20PROCEDURE.pdf
Quote 2.   Head-to-head match competition between the tied schools; (Example: If A defeated B and B defeated A in the double round robin, the tie-breaker must go to the next step. If A defeated B in both matches in the double round robin, A would prevail and the tie is broken. B is eliminated from further consideration.)


Tennis
https://healthyliving.azcentral.com/tiebreaker-rules-roundrobin-format-tennis-5200.html
Quote In a double round-robin format, of course, it’s possible for two competitors to split their matches. Depending on the number of competitors involved, it’s also possible for more than two individuals or teams to tie for first place. In this case, check the record of each competitor against the other teams or individuals that tied for first place.


Playoff for table tennis in a multi-sport event in Philippines
https://www.coa.gov.ph/gad/resources/downloads/Memo/COA_M2017-021A.pdf
Quote 7. TABLE TENNIS
A. There shall be Double Round Robin elimination. The elimination round shall be
best of five sets.
A. In case of sweep or no lose in the first round and second round, a winning player
or pair doubles will be twice to beat in the final's best of seven sets.
B. In case of double tie in number of wins, a match will be played in a single game
only, best of seven sets. In case of triple tie, a match will be drawn as on (1)
versus (2) and three (3) is waiting.
C. The "in service" (open palm) or tossing the ball should be at least six inches from
the table.
D. Sandpaper or wood bat rackets are not allowed to be used in the competition.
E. The defaulting time is 10 minutes.
F. The umpire's decision is final.
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+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
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= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgesandnets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2021 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

The usual order of precedence is H2H competition between the tied players, whether it be single round-robin or double round-robin. No wonder the KTTA is plagued by controversies.

[/QUOTE]

Well technically they weren't tied, since Lee Sangsu had 9 round robin points (5 from first, 4 from second) and An Jaehyun only had 8 round robin points (3 from first, 5 from second) so the situation isn't identical. But I agree that the system KTTA used was pretty dumb
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2021 at 1:57pm
Which doesn't make sense. The points awarded are different for the 2 round-robins, but it's stated in the prospectus that 2 points for a win, 1 for a loss, and 0 for default. How did it become 9 vs 8?

They still haven't updated the score sheets even days later. I guess they don't give a damn?

Edited by zeio - 02/05/2021 at 2:00pm
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+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aerial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2021 at 2:27pm
in my opinion, AJH got robbed, should be H2H in tie-breaker situation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edgesandnets Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2021 at 2:42pm
This was the press release that said LSS got line points and AJH got eight points: https://www.news1.kr/articles/?4203555

i am guessing that it was first place gets five points, second place gets  four points, third place gets three points, fourth place gets two points, and fifth place gets one point. However I didn't find any instance of them publicly madking this explicit beforehand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2021 at 3:39pm
I would much rather see AJH play. He was a wonderful player to watch at the last World's, and he made it to the semifinals! You would think KTTA would want this guy to return to the big stage.
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