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Lee Sangsu Wins Korean Olympic Trials

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2021 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

I would much rather see AJH play. He was a wonderful player to watch at the last World's, and he made it to the semifinals! You would think KTTA would want this guy to return to the big stage.

Nearly made it to the finals too! Match against Falck could have gone either way easily.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote balldance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2021 at 1:48am
Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

I would much rather see AJH play. He was a wonderful player to watch at the last World's, and he made it to the semifinals! You would think KTTA would want this guy to return to the big stage.

I’d like to see AJH play too. But KTTA may prefer LSS because he is higher ranked and thus better for seeding. 
AJH is still young and he needs to improve to be the undisputed choice. 

Btw, where Jeong Sangeun? Haven’t seen him playing recently. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2021 at 3:44am
Last I checked, Jeong Sangeun failed to the make national A-team in 2019. Will need to check what happened for 2020.

Back after a quick look. The national team selection above was for 2019-2020.

http://www.koreatta.or.kr/servlets/org/front/board/action/board?command=CONTENT&listcount=10&curpage=25&orderby=&direction=&board=notice&board_seq=8945&b_cate=&b_search=
Quote 659      2019-2020 국가대표 상비군 최종 선발전 경기결과(5일차)


Edited by zeio - 02/06/2021 at 4:39am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2021 at 2:53am
...

Edited by BeaverMD - 09/10/2021 at 7:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2021 at 3:44am
No, he didn't. There's so little reporting that I had to make it up just to show how ridiculous it sounds and how the KTTA doesn't go by the book, at least the rules that they've published online.

Edited by zeio - 02/11/2021 at 5:58am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2021 at 5:09am
Below is a list of all the bulletins that have to do with the final trial on the KTTA official site. The ones of interest here are 886 and 894. IIRC, 894 was about the 1st selection but they changed it to the final selection 1 and 2 and so the incomplete score sheet of the 1st selection was replaced by those of the final selection 1 and 2.

http://www.koreatta.or.kr/servlets/org/front/board/action/board?command=&listcount=10&orderby=&direction=&curpage=1
Quote 번호      제목      첨부파일      등록자      등록일      조회수
898      [긴급]2020 도쿄올림픽 파견 국가대표 선발전 최종2차 경기시간 조정 안내              관리자      2021/02/04      1487
895      2020 도쿄올림픽 파견 국가대표 선발전 중계영상 저작권 안내              관리자      2021/02/01      877
894      2020 도쿄올림픽 파견 국가대표 최종 선발전(1~2차) 경기결과 안내       다운로드      관리자      2021/01/31      2356
893      2020 도쿄올림픽 파견 국가대표 최종 선발전(1차) 테이블 배정표 안내       다운로드      관리자      2021/01/29      1398
892      2020 도쿄올림픽 파견 국가대표 선발전 유튜브 x 아프리카TV 중계 안내(1차 수..       다운로드      관리자      2021/01/28      3586
890      2020 도쿄올림픽 파견 국가대표 선발전 방역 지침 안내       다운로드      관리자      2021/01/25      355
887      2020 도쿄올림픽 파견 국가대표 선발전 숙박 안내              관리자      2021/01/20      408
886      2020 도쿄올림픽 파견 국가대표 선발전 개최 안내       다운로드      관리자      2021/01/20      1122

No. Title Attachment Registrar Registered Date Hits
898 [Emergency] 2020 Tokyo Olympics National Team Selection Guide to Adjustment of Competition Schedule of Final Selection 2, Admin, 2021/02/04, 1487
895 2020 Tokyo Olympics National Team Selection Broadcast Video Copyright Information, Admin, 2021/02/01, 877
894 2020 Tokyo Olympics National team final selection (1st~2nd round) Match result information, Attachment, Admin, 2021/01/31, 2356
893 2020 Tokyo Olympics National Team Final Selection (1st) Table Allocation Table Information, Attachment, Admin, 2021/01/29, 1398
892 2020 Tokyo Olympics National team selection YouTube x Afreeca TV broadcast information (1st Wednesday.., Attachment, Admin, 2021/01/28, 3586
890 2020 Tokyo Olympics National Team Selection Guideline for COVID-19 Prevention, Attachment, Admin, 2021/01/25, 355
887 2020 Tokyo Olympics National Team Selection Accommodation Information, Admin, 2021/01/20, 408
886 2020 Tokyo Olympics National Team Selection Guide, Attachment, Admin, 2021/01/20, 1122

Below is an excerpt of the rules on the round-robin from bulletin 886 above, specifically the pdf file " [붙임 1] 2020 도쿄올림픽 파견 국가대표 선발전 요강(안).pdf" or "[Attachment 1] Summary of National Team Selection Dispatched for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics (draft).pdf".

Quote ■ 2020 도쿄올림픽 파견 국가대표 선발전 일반 사항
...
3. 대회 운영 관련
...
사. 리그전의 순위는 아래의 방식으로 결정한다.
1) 승점제(승 2점, 패 1점, 기권 0점)방식으로 각 조 선수별 승점이 많은 순으로 순위 결정
2) 승점이 같을 경우
- 2명의 승점이 동률일 경우 상호 전적에 따라 순위 결정(승자승)
- 3명 이상의 승점이 동률일 경우 최종순위가 결정될 때까지 해당 선수 상호간 개인별 매치, 게임,
점수의 득실 공방율을 순차적으로 적용

아. 대회 요강에 정해져 있지 아니한 사항은 국제탁구연맹 및 대한탁구협회 규정에 따른다.
■ General matters for the selection of national teams dispatched to the 2020 Tokyo Olympics
...
3. Competition-related management
...
G. The ranking of the round-robin is determined by the following methods:
1) Based on the winning points system (2 points for a win, 1 point for a loss, 0 points for a forfeit), the winning points of players of each group will determine the ranking in descending order
2) In case of a tie
- When 2 players are tied, the ranking is determined based on their match result(head-to-head)
- When 3 or more players are tied, the individual matches, games, and points scored are applied in such order until the final ranking is determined

H. Matters not specified in the competition guidelines shall be in accordance with the regulations of the International Table Tennis Federation and the Korea Table Tennis Association.

Edited by zeio - 02/11/2021 at 7:39am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2021 at 5:23am
They did follow what's stated above for the single round-robin in the 1st selection. But for the double round-robins in the final selection 1 and 2, below is what we got according to the news:

1st LSS 5 pts(3W1L) and 4 pts(3W1L), 9 pts in total
2nd AJH 4 pts(2W2L) and 5 pts(4W0L), 8 pts in total
3rd
4th
5th

1st LZO 6 pts(4W1L) and ? pts(1W4L) due to toe injury
2nd SYB 5 pts(4W1L) and 6 pts(5W0L), 11 pts in total
3rd CHJ 9 pts in total
4th
5th YHE
6th SHW

However, even in the score sheets for the final selection 1 and 2 from bulletin 894, which they've finally updated/uploaded weeks later, it's not indicated/explained/elaborated how they arrived at those mysterious points.

Edited by zeio - 02/11/2021 at 6:14am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2021 at 8:15am
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Did he really say this? Like most, I was rooting for AJH.  He is the stronger player.  But, how did he let himself be upset twice in the first round? If I was his coach, I would have been chewing him out.  I would have said after the first upset look, you gotta be dialed to 11.  The Worlds is the pinnacle of table tennis but the OG is the pinnacle of all sports.  Next opportunity is another 4 years when you are 25 y/o.  The other guys are coming up too.  After 2024, you’ll be 29 for the next one and need to do military service.  I feel he has no one to blame for him missing the singles except himself.  In the next RR, he dispatched Cho in a business-like manner so it was not like he was not capable in the first round.  Jae Hyun needs to stop talking before someone decides to put Youngsik in that third team spot.

I had very high hopes for Sangsu a few years ago but he’s just too predictable.  Now that I've written that, watch him win a bronze in MS and I’ll have to eat crow :)

I don't like this post much at all.

The other two players are very talented, and pushed LSS / JYS as well.

I'm sure AJH was dialed in and trying hard, I'm sure he has trained plenty with his teammates, which means they have the confidence and intimate knowledge on how to play him. He does too, but often times for a slightly stronger player, this additional knowledge is less beneficial. The weaker player can suddenly navigate the game a lot better, whereas the stronger players multiple advantages are blunted.

Pressure and circumstance is incredible. I'm sure you've been upset many a time, against players you are much stronger than. AJH is not levels beyond the #4 and #5 male player in Korea in terms of his playing level, although he might be in talent, so whilst he's capable of dispatching them, they too are capable of beating him. Roger Federer himself has  almost 300 professional tour singles losses, the vast majority being to players who are nowhere near as talented..and upsets often come together. You can lose confidence or rhythm or focus, and it can be challenging to reset. He might be a lot more talented that Wawrinka, but if Wawrinka is on Stanimal mode, he would be the favourite [except on Clay against Nadal].

In our amateur matches, a stronger player tends to be stronger in almost all facets of the games, and to a significant extent - better serves, technique, rallying ability, experience, footwork, conditioning, service receive. They tend to be a lot stronger. When its the top 5 or 6 Korean players, or #2 to #6 or whatever, you aren't going to have huge advantages everywhere, and will likely have disadvantages in some areas. That's why it was pretty funny seeing 'buff looper' because the guy was exceptionally physically talented, with good ability on some FH timings, but was pretty weak everywhere else. He lives and dies in matches, by how often and well he can leverage that. In the Pro scene, you don't see that slanted a skillset. 

A coach reminding you of the importance of the match in a long spiel, reminding you of your military service, could potentially lead to a loss of focus or anxiety. Being somewhat dispassionate on the table is the key to playing close to your level in training - not elevating the stage. We've seen many Olympic finals where the average point is pretty crap for the players playing - too much anxiety. It's a terrible idea. Motivate rather than terrify. We know what the stakes are, and actively try to avoid thinking about them.

I don't want to doubt a Pro's professionalism without some evidence or reason, let alone on such an important stage for them, I think its pretty disrespectful to think a pro 'let himself get upset' without some evidence.

AJH had a fantastic trial against fantastic players. He managed to heavily overperform in the 4 toughest matches [4-0] but s underperform in the slightly easier matches. I think the mean expectation going in for AJH, LSS and JYS would've been 50% against each other [2-2] as they are all roughly evenly matched, and probably winning around 80% of the time against the weaker 2. That translates to around 2-2 and then 3-1. So its not crazy in a small sample to go 4-0 and 2-2, just like LSS and JYS's results weren't crazy either way..it's pro sports, the edges are small, your opponents know how to play well and push advantages, and if you are at 80% for any physical or mental reason, you could lose to anyone. 

Again, my focus against good players is simply to leverage serving a variety of high quality serves, and exploit their service with good receives. Winning 70-75% of your service points and 40-60% of their service points means you almost never have to complain about luck etc. It works very well, but having that level of advantage is impossible to attain against high level pros, especially if you train with them.


Edited by Basquests - 02/11/2021 at 8:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/02/2021 at 5:35am
...

Edited by BeaverMD - 09/10/2021 at 7:11am
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