Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - My Progress Over Time
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

My Progress Over Time

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 345
Author
 Rating: Topic Rating: 10 Votes, Average 4.90  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Tt Gold View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/22/2014
Location: Germany
Status: Online
Points: 1036
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2018 at 6:20am
Looking better, but one thing that bothers me is your movements. They look very choppy. I said it last time and I'll say it again, you need to use your body more on the forehand. You have the time, so you should do it. Once you reach a certain level, you'll lack power with that forehand. Keep it up
Back to Top
balldance View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 01/28/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 185
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote balldance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2018 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Looking better, but one thing that bothers me is your movements. They look very choppy. I said it last time and I'll say it again, you need to use your body more on the forehand. You have the time, so you should do it. Once you reach a certain level, you'll lack power with that forehand. Keep it up

I noticed the exact same things. But I assume his coach knows what to do. It will take time to improve those.
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 916
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2018 at 6:39pm
Thank you balldance and TtGold!

Yeah, that's one of the main issues I'm working on (along with many many others haha). During that session I worked with 2 coaches, we mostly worked on my backhand because it's a much weaker part of my game, but for about 30 minutes we did some forehand stuff.

With my main coach, we worked on timing (I hit the ball too far in front of my body, thus not allowing me to use my body), and trunk rotation (not wiggling my body from left to right and using more rotation to generate power).

With one of the other coaches (first time with him that day), we worked a little on weight transfer since I mostly have my weight leaning on my back leg, without properly transferring it into the other leg during the shot). Also, I have this bad habit of jumping forward when I smash the ball. So he was helping me with that. Better footwork!

In the video above I felt like I wasn't able to incorporate the forehand things we practiced well. Various parts of our backhand practice made it in though! I think the one area that did seep in a little on some shots was timing. I was thinking a little more about timing, waiting a little longer than usual to hit the ball.

It's actually interesting to see everyone pick up on the same thing. It means it's a big part of my game that needs fixing :) Thank you!
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 916
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2019 at 11:12am
It's been awhile since I posted here! I haven't been able to play many matches recently but I did go to a small tournament organised by the table tennis coaching center I visit.

I did surprisingly well, but I was also very lucky with the draws. 

There were probably 5 or 6 who I estimate would be over 2k. I versed 2 of them and lost to both. The other 4 I played, I won 3-0 or 3-1 (probably less than 1700).

Here's one of the matches I lost. It was my first time playing her and she uses short pips on her forehand.

The score was 7-11, 6-11, 11-7, 7-11 with her winning 3-1.

I think I did a lot of things better than I usually do. I think 5 of the 7 points I took in the first set were from her failing to return my serves, with most being short. I couldn't rally against her, though.

I think my serves are really improving, and they might even be above my playing level. There is one long serve to the opponent's forehand which I really need to stop doing. You'll see me do it like 3 times in the match and all 3 times she just blasted the ball past me. They were too slow, high, and not long enough...

BTW, sorry about the horrible viewing angle. I got to the tournament and somehow my tripod head had snapped off. So I had to just leave the camera sitting on a desk. 1 or 2 points in the second set is missing because someone was standing in front of my camera. They also bumped it slightly, which is why the viewing angle gets a little worse haha.

Let me know what you guys think. I have a lot of thoughts myself, of course. I think there are things I did better than usual and things I need to work on, but I'll wait to see what others see. Thanks!!


Back to Top
benfb View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 10/10/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2327
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2019 at 8:14pm
It is an interesting camera angle.  Actually, I like low cameras but it was a pity it wasn't more to one side or the other.

Looking this over, I don't recall you being so backhand oriented.  Are you always that way?  I guess I've mostly seen your drills where game style isn't apparent.

You start your receive from a stance I would normally expect for a forehand dominant player.  But as soon as the ball is in motion you move to the center of the table and square up to the table, so that you can mostly hit backhand balls.  From that position, your few forehand shots are weak (often passive blocks or weak loops).  It just seems to me you really handicap yourself that way.

Some people play with a BH stance because they have such powerful BH shots. Others do it because they have poor footwork and need to cover the table with minimum movement.  Neither of those seem to apply here.  You weren't dominating with your BH shots and you look like you move very well.  It's just like you're afraid to use you FH loop?

If I were you coach at that match, I would tell you to stop being so timid and attack more with your FH.
Back to Top
mjamja View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 05/30/2009
Status: Online
Points: 1995
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2019 at 10:18pm
I saw exactly what Ben saw.  When you changed to a Bh serve with sidespin making ball jump more to your Fh you looked more like you did in other videos.  

Her ball speed seemed to affect your stroke choices.  You only looped when the return was slow.  On faster returns you did flat soft blocks.  Some active blocks, but even those were soft.  This is one of the things I am struggling with myself.  Any pace on the return changes me from a looper to a blocker.  I am trying to do more counter-attack drills to break this habit.

Mark
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 916
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2019 at 11:23pm
First, thank you Ben and Mark.

@Ben
Yeah, I should have tried to put the camera further to the right or left!! But it was interesting because I could clearly see which of my serves were actually low over the net, and which were well... not ha. Usually if it was high, it was a long serve. The low ones were probably all short serves. It's probably hard to tell from this angle how short or long they are.

I've been forehand dominate for maybe the first 4 years of my table tennis life. The last half year or so I've been becoming more backhand dominate. But not dominate in the sense that my backhand is strong. My forehand is definitely stronger than my backhand. But dominate in the sense that I've been trying to play a more balanced game by improving my backhand, using it more often, relying less on huge pivots which leaves my wide forehand open. This is probably because people have always abused my backhand since I couldn't open against underspin or loop well. So the last year or more, I've probably been doing 70% backhand and 30% forehands during practice.

I should probably go back to using my forehand more. It's definitely a stronger shot. Thanks for the advice. There were a few points during a backhand rally when the ball came towards the middle or to my forehand and I wasn't able to hit a strong ball in time. I've been thinking a lot about those shots and how to fix them. Would more random drills be good so I learn to read the situation better? Should I take a step back and play a little further from the table? I'm generally pretty close to the table unless I get heavily pressured and do a weak return. I wish you were there to give me some advice between sets haha. I think my style has been changing more towards the women's game, for better or worse...

@Mark
Her strokes had some quality to them so it was hard for me to get aggressive. But I think that just comes down to practice. I don't play many people at that level. They were relatively easy to passive block, but hard to actively block. But this is high on my priority list, so I hope to get there soon. I need to play the ball to better positions, too I think. My placement was often just like "okay, your turn to hit the ball". I've been experimenting with adding pressure on the fingers during contact, but still have no luck using it during a match.


Edited by mickd - 02/28/2019 at 12:32am
Back to Top
benfb View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 10/10/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2327
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 12:04am
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

First, thank you Ben and Mark.

Yeah, I should have tried to put the camera further to the right or left!! But it was interesting because I could clearly see which of my serves were actually low over the net, and which were well... not ha. Usually if it was high, it was a long serve. The low ones were probably all short serves. It's probably hard to tell from this angle how short or long they are.

I've been forehand dominate for maybe the first 4 years of my table tennis life. The last half year or so I've been becoming more backhand dominate. But not dominate in the sense that my backhand is strong. My forehand is definitely stronger than my backhand. But dominate in the sense that I've been trying to play a more balanced game by improving my backhand, using it more often, relying less on huge pivots which leaves my wide forehand open. This is probably because people have always abused my backhand since I couldn't open against underspin or loop well. So the last year or more, I've probably been doing 70% backhand and 30% forehands during practice.

I should probably go back to using my forehand more. It's definitely a stronger shot. Thanks for the advice. There were a few points during a backhand rally when the ball came towards the middle or to my forehand and I wasn't able to hit a strong ball in time. I've been thinking a lot about those shots and how to fix them. Would more random drills be good so I learn to read the situation better? Should I take a step back and play a little further from the table? I'm generally pretty close to the table unless I get heavily pressured and do a weak return. I wish you were there to give me some advice between sets haha. I think my style has been changing more towards the women's game, for better or worse...

Her strokes had some quality to them so it was hard for me to get aggressive. But I think that just comes down to practice. I don't play many people at that level. They were relatively easy to passive block, but hard to actively block. But this is high on my priority list, so I hope to get there soon. I need to play the ball to better positions, too I think. My placement was often just like "okay, your turn to hit the ball". I've been experimenting with adding pressure on the fingers during contact, but still have no luck using it during a match.
I think you're missing the point here.  It's not that her strokes were magically that tough, you were just so ill-prepared for them because you paid no attention to your FH.  It's not that you should "probably" go back to using your FH more, it's that you have to, in order to compete.

In that video, it looked you you had just given up on your FH shot, that it was an afterthought.  You didn't position yourself (most of the time) for a good FH stroke, and you usually weren't mentally prepared when shots went to that side of you body.

If I were your coach, I would tell you to stop messing around with your BH so much.  Practice in drills is fine, but in games you should be 90% FH.  And if you're caught sometimes out of position, then you can either scale back the FH later, or learn how to pick your shot placement better.  
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 916
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 12:43am
Sorry Ben. The last part was responding to Mark about soft and active blocks :) Edited for clarity.

I agree, her shots weren't so tough that I couldn't get the forehand in, I just wasn't well prepared, like you said. I'll need to work on that for sure.

Do you think I should move my ready position a little more towards the backhand side to open my forehand side more? I was waiting for the forehand ball, or at least I was hoping for a forehand ball to attack more aggressively, I just failed to prepare in time :(

90% forehand would also require me to change my game completely. I'm sure I could pull it off, but it would require me to return to pivoting again. There were quite a few balls to the middle that I could have done better against if I was able to side step and take it with my forehand instead of my backhand, but most the time my opponents return the ball to my backhand. It's hard to get the opportunity to play so many forehands without actively pivoting.

I'll try adding more reverse spin to force deeper returns into my forehand, and open with my forehand, which usually gets me into a more forehand mindset.

Lots of food for thought here. Lots more work to do and things to fix. It's a never ending cycle with table tennis :) Thank you.

EDIT: I've also been receiving too many middle/forehand side balls with my backhand. I never used to do that. So that's somewhere I can get some more forehands in. Opening with my forehand. I'm not sure why I was opening so many balls in the middle/forehand side with my backhand. I didn't miss many that way, but the receive was a little weak and I failed to get back into position in time with the larger movement required to recover.


Edited by mickd - 02/28/2019 at 12:57am
Back to Top
benfb View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 10/10/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2327
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 12:54am
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Do you think I should move my ready position a little more towards the backhand side to open my forehand side more? I was waiting for the forehand ball, or at least I was hoping for a forehand ball to attack more aggressively, I just failed to prepare in time :(

90% forehand would also require me to change my game completely. I'm sure I could pull it off, but it would require me to return to pivoting again. There were quite a few balls to the middle that I could have done better against if I was able to side step and take it with my forehand instead of my backhand, but most the time my opponent's all return the ball to my backhand. It's hard to get the opportunity to play so many forehands without actively pivoting.
If you look at the video, you service receive position starts with a FH-oriented stance, but as soon as the ball is served you square up to the table and move to the middle of the table, both classic BH positions. Similarly, when you serve the serve ends with you in a FH position and then your first bounce of footwork is to shift to a BH position. The trick is to stay with the FH orientation with your left foot back and more towards the right corner of the table.

It's a matter of how you prepare yourself for the next shot.  If you're standing in the middle of the table, then your FH is only good for the left 1/3 of the table. And if you're square (facing the table), then you're never in a good position for a FH stroke.

Look at your opponent in that video.  Her position is "mild" FH orientation.  She stays somewhat to the left (BH) side, but not strongly so.  And her right foot stays somewhat back. She is maybe 60% FH and 40% BH.  I think you should be aiming for 70%-30% (my 90% before was an exaggeration).  I know that you have a better FH because I've watched your training videos and I've seen some of your longer rallies (including this video) where you get going with your FH.  You just need to make a decision to emphasize FH attack.

I'm not telling you to pivot on everything, but all shots are going to seem like BH shots when you're covering 60% of the table with your BH.  Think of it this way: you're not releasing your real strengths by playing the current way.
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Online
Points: 2451
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 12:54am
I disagree with mjamja and ben, mickd is right to use more of his backhand, it's better for his long-term development, if you don't use it in tournaments how would you learn to trust it?! And a well rounded player these days has to have a good backhand. 

For me I think the strokes are solid but lack quality. I think you should try in practice to increase your power gradually so that you'll be confident to do it in a match situation. Focus more on the capability to produce spin. The more feeling you have the better you can powerloop during matches. Don't forget the supination and pronation tips! Wink

I'm almost opposite from you, I can't recover to save my life but have quite a some power, if they get blocked I'm toast. I usually follow up powerloops with a block only Cry
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 916
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 1:17am
@Ben
Thanks for the clarification, I get what you're saying now. I'm probably in an awkward phase right now where I'm still using my forehand oriented stance at first, but shifting to a backhand stance because that's what I've been trying to improve recently. I really do want to improve my backhand and hopefully turn it into a weapon, but I definitely don't want to do it with like 60% of the table backhand like now. That's probably a relatively simple fix, I just need to think a little more about taking 70% of forehand balls with my forehand. I think my body will move for it naturally if I have that mindset.

@blahness
Thank you. My long term goal is definitely improving my backhand. I think you described the strokes well, solid but lacking quality. I've been experimenting and thinking so much lately about adding power to it. I think once I have the ability to add power at will, I'll have a solid backhand game :) A few of the shots I think I had a good amount of supination. Those balls did feel like they had a little more quality coming off my racket. I can only recover because there's nothing to recover lol. The balls are too soft.

I want to have a decent foundation down that'll allow me to reach 2200+. I started as an adult without any training (I should probably save face and delete the videos at the start of this thread haha), so it's been a tough road, and progress has definitely been slower than most. I'm probably a solid 1800 player at the moment. The last year has helped me smooth out a lot of things, but not so much to really improve my playing level. Maybe an increase from 1700 to 1800. If I don't make drastic changes I'll probably never get there. But I'm really working towards it. So all this advice is DEEPLY appreciated. As an adult player, thinking about this stuff is essential for my development. I'm more of a thinker than a natural athlete lol. I don't just 'get it' as fast as I see many others.
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 12472
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 11:07am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I disagree with mjamja and ben, mickd is right to use more of his backhand, it's better for his long-term development, if you don't use it in tournaments how would you learn to trust it?! And a well rounded player these days has to have a good backhand. 

For me I think the strokes are solid but lack quality. I think you should try in practice to increase your power gradually so that you'll be confident to do it in a match situation. Focus more on the capability to produce spin. The more feeling you have the better you can powerloop during matches. Don't forget the supination and pronation tips! Wink

I'm almost opposite from you, I can't recover to save my life but have quite a some power, if they get blocked I'm toast. I usually follow up powerloops with a block only Cry

Blahness, 

Have you ever discussed this issue with a high level player or coach?  It is not about having a good backhand but about introducing the forehand as early and as often as possible. 

NL
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Boll ALC FL
FH: Fastarc G-1 2.0 B
BH: Fastarc G-1 2.0 R
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes.
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 12472
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 11:24am
Mickd,

Your game looks fine but while it might be the result of facing a better player, you are not working hard enough to introduce your best weapons.  Let a player force you to use your backhand unless it is your best shot, in which case you make sure that most of the forehands you get are easier balls. 

I like the way you use your core.  Right now you have to get the core a bit stronger and make more solid contact with the ball on about 40 to 60% of your shots. While I understand the desire to play close to the table, in men's table tennis, it is more important to find a playing distance where you can see the ball and play powerful shots.

Most of the time, backhand should reduce your footwork demands.  But for most players, it is not a point ending weapon. Of course there are exceptions and I am backhand oriented so I am not saying you can't play powerful backhands or that you need to pivot all the time. I am saying that you must always look for ways to introduce your best weapons. When the game is on the line you need to be able to serve and attack or pivot and attack. 

Work on attacking long serves on both sides. Include some pivoting when doing this. It will help your game a lot.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Boll ALC FL
FH: Fastarc G-1 2.0 B
BH: Fastarc G-1 2.0 R
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes.
Back to Top
BH-Man View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/05/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 11:59am
MickD,

One tactical note vs this opponent.

You both seem to like playing "Bang - Bang" TT close to the table. She is better at it. She is also forcing a lot of this with her fast/long serves. It can be tough to see those and play a heavy underspin... but the times you either managed a heavy underspin or a halflong ball, she gave you back easy chances and wasn't putting you under pressure.

If you can find more ways to give this opponent heavy slow topspin, it will go a long way for you.

That is easy to say and may be more difficult to do vs her as she is better level and makes it tough to play short and you seem to like the fast close to table game.
Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc
Back to Top
Lightzy View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/18/2017
Location: T-A
Status: Offline
Points: 343
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 12:15pm
hey mickd it was hard to focus on your play when ur playing against such a beautiful girl. Who is also a pleasure to watch in terms of how she plays and how solid and stable she is in stance.


Things I've noticed are that your serve receives could be less passive and more positive. Especially the short serve receive, could be received with a bit more spin instead of giving her a nice dead ball. It looks like ur just putting the racket there and letting the ball land on it and bounce back. I'd try to always think, "where do I want the receive to go?", rather than "how do I return this serve?". Even if you really don't know how to return the serve, thinking "where do I want the receive to go" will make the returns better and more confident, while forcing a positive recieve.

Also you miss the ball on a lot of forehands. I think this is an issue with "winding up the forehand for that big topspin swing" instead of simply hitting the ball in front of the body as quickly as possible.
The whole 'wind up' doesn't work next to the table. Also it's questionable if it works at ALL.
Getting used to hitting the forehand when the ball is in front of you instead of next to you or behind you is one of the most important things for forehand stability and quickness.

Also your serving technique is very interesting. I think people think you need big swings through the ball sometimes but you show correctly that a tiny motion, well timed, can make a spinny serve with much better deception. Interesting grip on the serve, I see that this is what it's meant to accomplish.

Also your backhands are good, like what I said about forehands. when the ball is in front of you. Of course with the backhand there's no other choice, but this exactly is what's good about it.
I think it is good to cover more of the table with backhand. It is done a lot in modern TT because of the speed.
Because of the speed and directness of the modern game the closer you are to the table it's absolutely fine to use more of the table for backhand, but as you get back away, more of the table is better for forehand.

That said you can and should develop a very compact forehand stroke as well, so not to miss those balls. Most of the balls you completely missed on forehand there was no need to topspin at all BTW. Had you taken them in front of you with a quick compact drive it could have been the end of the point right there, so that's something to work on I think.

All in all, awesome, very good play from both of you and very entertaining to watch. And very quick progress also!
I can't wait to watch your match against Fan Zhendong next year :>



Edited by Lightzy - 02/28/2019 at 6:38pm
Back to Top
TT newbie View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/25/2011
Location: Far Far Away
Status: Offline
Points: 936
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 12:38pm
I agree with Ben, at first look I saw a BH oriented player without a BH dominance.
I think the BH lacks offensiveness. They went slow and high, and without much topspin. Besides that, most of them went in the middle, allowing your opponent to easily attack. It´s like you were just putting the ball back in the table...
I am also a BH oriented player but this is my strongest stroke.
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Online
Points: 2451
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I disagree with mjamja and ben, mickd is right to use more of his backhand, it's better for his long-term development, if you don't use it in tournaments how would you learn to trust it?! And a well rounded player these days has to have a good backhand. 

For me I think the strokes are solid but lack quality. I think you should try in practice to increase your power gradually so that you'll be confident to do it in a match situation. Focus more on the capability to produce spin. The more feeling you have the better you can powerloop during matches. Don't forget the supination and pronation tips! Wink

I'm almost opposite from you, I can't recover to save my life but have quite a some power, if they get blocked I'm toast. I usually follow up powerloops with a block only Cry

Blahness, 

Have you ever discussed this issue with a high level player or coach?  It is not about having a good backhand but about introducing the forehand as early and as often as possible. 

NL

Yeah I've discussed this with high level players that usually have point ending FHs. I do 90% FH in tight situations too, it's simply much more powerful and reliable for me, while my BH is usually the set up shot. It's easier to punish all those long/half long serves and serve receive popups with a decisive FH loopkill, so it places the opponents under huge pressure. 

However, if you're playing with a developmental attitude rather than a win at all costs manner (ie win ugly), doing more BHs with a view to improve the BH is perfectly acceptable.
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 916
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 7:25pm
Firstly, thank you everyone for the replies!

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

... Let a player force you to use your backhand unless it is your best shot, in which case you make sure that most of the forehands you get are easier balls. 

... Right now you have to get the core a bit stronger and make more solid contact with the ball on about 40 to 60% of your shots. ...

... I am saying that you must always look for ways to introduce your best weapons. When the game is on the line you need to be able to serve and attack or pivot and attack. ...

Unrelated, but recently I've been the posts in the TTEdge Executing Table Tennis Shots Series on Ooakforum. Very interesting discussion with you and the others.

I'm actually surprised at the amount I was trying to use my backhand. I played a match a week ago against someone who was probably ~1700 and won really easily using mostly forehands. I was 'in the zone' though. Normally I win against him, but it's mostly close sets. She was forcing more backhands out of me, and I was really close to the table, which generally isn't where I am when I'm playing forehand dominate table tennis. I think the more spin people play with, the more inclined I am to go forehand dominate.

I hope I get a chance to play her again sometime in the future. I think if I changed my approach like all of you guys are saying, I might be able to play even better table tennis :)

As for adding more solid contact into my strokes, I agree and that's one thing I'm been trying to work on a lot lately. Even yesterday, I spent some time with the coach trying to find the right feeling for adding power.

Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

You both seem to like playing "Bang - Bang" TT close to the table. ... but the times you either managed a heavy underspin or a halflong ball, she gave you back easy chances and wasn't putting you under pressure.

If you can find more ways to give this opponent heavy slow topspin, it will go a long way for you. ...

I think it's a result of playing like 80% of the time with females ha. I'm not sure if I prefer this style or not. I am a lot taller than most of them, and from the start had relatively larger strokes on the forehand side, so taking that step back is probably necessary.

The last point in set 3 I took by doing a slower topspin loop. I think I needed to try slow looping down the line. I was avoiding her pips, but maybe she would struggle against that. I'm really bad against sudden change in ball tempo and spin from long pips or soft block short pips. A few points she soft blocked her middle with her pips, and the change in tempo made me miss my forehand. I think there were 2 of those points in the fourth set. I also needed to change course during backhand rallies and go wide to her forehand before she did it to me. I feel like she might struggle to hit a strong ball if I did. I spent a little time doing that exercise yesterday, too.

I think I need to remember if I'm ever losing a match to think: Have I tried heavy topspin? I think that's one stroke that I'm pretty good at but some matches I barely use at all.
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 916
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by Lightzy Lightzy wrote:

hey mickd it was hard to focus on your play when ur playing against such a beautiful girl. Who is also a pleasure to watch in terms of how she plays and how solid and stable she is in stance.

Oh my god. I'm actually going to invalidate all thoughts and opinions on this match and attribute the loss solely to that haha. I asked her and she's in her last year of university, having played table tennis for the last 11 years, including for her middle school, senior high and university team. Though that's not so atypical in Japan. She has been getting coached the whole time, though.
 
Originally posted by Lightzy Lightzy wrote:


Things I've noticed are that your serve receives could be less passive and more positive. Especially the short serve receive, could be received with a bit more spin instead of giving her a nice dead ball. ...

Also you miss the ball on a lot of forehands. I think this is an issue with "winding up the forehand for that big topspin swing" instead of simply hitting the ball in front of the body as quickly as possible.
The whole 'wind up' doesn't work next to the table. ...

You make some great points. A few weeks ago I was doing this exercise with the coach where we do long, fast, spiny pushes. He was saying that basically you want two types of pushes, those and short pushes. Never the ones in between, which of course I'm very guilty of. I push like I do in simple drills with my students. Kind of just like "here you go, please attack this".

The forehand was one thing I wanted to work on after seeing that match. The sudden transition to forehand. I tried to practice that yesterday, but it didn't work out well at all. I'll need to keep working on it, or take time with the coach with it.

Originally posted by Lightzy Lightzy wrote:


Also your serving technique is very interesting. I think people think you need big swings through the ball sometimes but you show correctly that a tiny motion, well timed, can make a spinny serve with much better deception. Interesting grip on the serve, I see that this is what it's meant to accomplish.

Also your backhands are good, like what I said about forehands. when the ball is in front of you....
I think it is good to cover more of the table with backhand. It is done a lot in modern TT because of the speed. ...

That said you can and should develop a very compact forehand stroke as well, so not to miss those balls. ...

All in all, awesome, very good play from both of you and very entertaining to watch. And very quick progress also!
I can't wait to watch your match against Fan Zhendong next year :>


Thanks. I've been really confident in my serves recently. The serves are surprisingly effective. I do need to refine the serves I'm using. Some just don't work and I keep doing them. Some work well for a follow up 3rd ball, but during that match I took the ball with my backhand instead >< There were still some serves I have that I didn't use at all. So I probably should have tried them as well.

I'll think about the compact forehand. I could approach it with a more open racket angle to kill the ball with speed. But for now, I'll need to try it and see what feels good then practice it :)

The only chance I'll ever have to play FZD is if by chance I meet someone with the same name and beg them to play some table tennis with me haha.
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 916
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2019 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

I agree with Ben, at first look I saw a BH oriented player without a BH dominance.
I think the BH lacks offensiveness. They went slow and high, and without much topspin. Besides that, most of them went in the middle, allowing your opponent to easily attack. It´s like you were just putting the ball back in the table...
I am also a BH oriented player but this is my strongest stroke.

Thanks. That's exactly what I said to my coach yesterday. I'm just putting the ball back on the table. I need to learn a more solid contact stroke for those slight pop up and slower returns; the opportunity shots. I did have them, I just couldn't capitalize on them. I was guilty of bad placement, though. I really need to change the placement up, or aim wider into the backhand. When I did that, I got the point.

I do think my balls have spin. A few people have said that my backhand is quite spiny. But the thing is, it's not deep enough on the table, it's not fast, and it's not so spiny to cause trouble. It's the best ball you can hope to get from your opponent basically lol.
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Online
Points: 2451
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/01/2019 at 4:20pm
Btw mickd you can try multiballs training, this will give you the freedom to rip the ball without caring about whether your partner can block it or not. You seem to be playing too defensively in men's table tennis. I think you've been countering too much and lack the killer mindset.

The other thing is a quality (ie high speed high spin) crosscourt loop from your BH. As a lefty you should train this more often, the pattern is to loop strong crosscourt (the ones exiting the side of the table are often lethal!) then block the return down the line the other way. The other one of course would be pivoting and loopkill it crosscourt. When going BH to BH down the line vs righties, look for an opportunity to rip it crosscourt. It has to be a strong shot, weaker shots will be punished by your opponent's FH...

For me I'm planning to do that to improve my recovery speed and footwork :) I feel like we're probably at similar levels except we have very different strengths....you are good at topspin rallies and can cover the table easily, for me I powerloop the first one and then am done if it ever gets blocked back....LOL


Edited by blahness - 03/01/2019 at 5:40pm
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 916
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/06/2019 at 11:50pm
Thanks blahness. I did some multiball last week and will probably do a little more this week. I asked the coaches to help with getting more power on my backhand. I have some videos, maybe I'll upload it later. I feel like some of the shots I did okay, but most of it still lacked power. It's really hard to get the timing right so that it feels like the the body, arm, wrist, everything is working in unison.

Yesterday I played a friendly match with Chihana's brother (Chihana is the girl I played in the OP). You can see the brother walking across the screen in the 3rd video (2016-10-31 Chihana Set 5 @ 0:14 & 0:34) who I haven't played for nearly a year. He's in year 7 now (about 12 years old). Last year I beat him 3-0 pretty easily. He's improved a lot since. In that video, Chihana was the same age as he is now, so you can compare their levels. I think her brother is stronger. He's so small, but he generates quite a lot of power on the backhand.

It was a really fun match. I only won because he struggled with my backhand serves, which I used almost exclusively at the end hehe. This is set 1 only. The start had some nice rallies. I got lucky towards the end to take that set.

He also did this cross court forehand a few times that threw me off. I felt like the ball was going to curl towards me, but they didn't. His swing threw me off. Made me think he contacted the ball on the outside, but he must of contacted it closer to the inside. He does it at the last shot during the point that starts at 0:38 and 1:11.


Back to Top
ericd937 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 06/01/2012
Location: Saigon, Vietnam
Status: Offline
Points: 861
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericd937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/07/2019 at 12:52am
Haven't they ever heard of putting a barrier for the training table? All of those balls flying around looks pretty annoying and also dangerous. I'm surprised someone hasn't rolled an ankle on one of those hundreds of balls on the floor. 
Current Setup:
Sittiho Hinoki ALC, T80(max), Baracuda(max)
Official USATT Rating 1815
Current estimated level: Bad Day ~ 1900 Good Day ~ 2100 (In Asia since 2015, no USATT events here)
Back to Top
mickd View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/27/2014
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 916
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/07/2019 at 9:31pm
I don't think most people mind. The space would be a lot more limiting if there was a barrier between each table. Also, most places don't have enough barriers to do it, too.

So far everywhere I've been that uses a bucket of balls per table hasn't had any barriers between tables. When you run out of balls, you collect them. When I trained in China for awhile, it was the same. No ball catching nets too.

What's it like for everyone else?
Back to Top
Ieyasu View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/18/2015
Location: DPR Kalifornia
Status: Offline
Points: 132
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ieyasu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/07/2019 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

What's it like for everyone else?
My size 14 (49 Euro) shoes catch a lot of balls. LOL
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Online
Points: 2451
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2019 at 5:41am
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Thanks blahness. I did some multiball last week and will probably do a little more this week. I asked the coaches to help with getting more power on my backhand. I have some videos, maybe I'll upload it later. I feel like some of the shots I did okay, but most of it still lacked power. It's really hard to get the timing right so that it feels like the the body, arm, wrist, everything is working in unison.

Yesterday I played a friendly match with Chihana's brother (Chihana is the girl I played in the OP). You can see the brother walking across the screen in the 3rd video (2016-10-31 Chihana Set 5 @ 0:14 & 0:34) who I haven't played for nearly a year. He's in year 7 now (about 12 years old). Last year I beat him 3-0 pretty easily. He's improved a lot since. In that video, Chihana was the same age as he is now, so you can compare their levels. I think her brother is stronger. He's so small, but he generates quite a lot of power on the backhand.

It was a really fun match. I only won because he struggled with my backhand serves, which I used almost exclusively at the end hehe. This is set 1 only. The start had some nice rallies. I got lucky towards the end to take that set.

He also did this cross court forehand a few times that threw me off. I felt like the ball was going to curl towards me, but they didn't. His swing threw me off. Made me think he contacted the ball on the outside, but he must of contacted it closer to the inside. He does it at the last shot during the point that starts at 0:38 and 1:11.



Yeah the timing is hard, I'm struggling with it too, but i think it's often lack of experience... especially all the automatic blade angle adjustments for different spins. Even if you lose matches you still have to commit to looping all long serves. I think you had pretty nice backhand openers in that clip. Keep it up and you'll be able to increase power on them soon. At my club it's hard because the guys are all nasty servers lol, if they smell any weakness they're going to serve with huge variety of spins to that location. 
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 345
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
About MyTableTennis.NET | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2019 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.