need help with counterloop

Over-the-table counterloop, what the Chinese call the "quick carry." Isn't it just a very abbreviated looping motion, with less turn and swing? You still swing on edge from low to high to brush the ball, but more from the elbow and quite a bit less from the shoulder and upper arm. If this concept is correct (I'm executing the stroke this way) then it's just a matter of calibration and experience, like knowing how much to close the blade when blocking. Like you said, perhaps you're misjudging the actual amount of topspin on the incoming shot and your blade is too closed as a result.

back away from the table, an over the table counterloop is basically a glorified block. If your are trying to outright counterloop you should still be swinging up with a more closed paddle face but a little off the table theres no need to stand right at the table when ure gonna need more time to get a full swing at it

yea i was thinking maybe u swinging too hard. lessen up and focus on having good contact and hitting the table. adjust either u speed of ur stroke and/or open the paddle more. gotta find that easy median between the two

And you'll HAVE to use an abbreviated swing motion as there just won't be time for a long swing. Of course I don't know how your rubbers and rackets feel like but I'd be cautious about opening your racket angle too much. Controlling a counterspin with an open racket angle is extremely difficult.

It's funny - I was having this exact conversation with the coach here at the academy, Ricard Prause, today. I'm only here for a week and we were going through a list of things I am to work with over the next few months until I come back in September.

He summed it up so well - as long as I'm hitting with a flat contact on the counterspin, I am always going to feel that my rubbers are crap, that I'm not getting enough lift on the ball and that my shots are going into the net.

He said that Ma Lin was the real master at rotating his wrist through on contact when counterspinning but that Timo's (he coached Timo every match for a number of years) ability to do this as well was one of the main reasons he kept up with the Chinese in loop loop and counterspinning. He said the Chinese were so surprised that Timo could counterspin so well on his forehand and that his very strong ab muscles and wrist rotation were the keys. Just make sure your racket head speed is high too and that you are hitting on the top of the ball.

The key about having strong, stable abs contracting at exactly the same time as your wrist rotates through on contact is for recovery after each shot. He likened counterspinning without tense, strong abs to a flat bicycle tire tube being twisted. So guess what I'll be doing for the next few months...

The guy really is a genius and I'm learning so much every day here!


Edited by ttEDGE - William - 05/04/2011 at 4:49pm

ttEDGE - William wrote: ...The key about having strong, stable abs contracting at exactly the same time as your wrist rotates through on contact is for recovery after each shot. He likened counterspinning without tense, strong abs to a flat bicycle tire tube being twisted.

a stable core is important in tt. The adjustment i made was to hit the side of the ball. I was also having trouble with this shot and stumbled upon this article. After I made this adjustment, my close to table counterlooping percentage when up tremendously. Once, you read the article(the ball spin part) it makes sense. It's physics, attacking the ball head on where most of the spin is present is very difficult. Instead moving towards the side/axis where there is less spin, will give you much more leeway. Before counterlooping closetotable heavy spin openers was 2/10. Now it's more like 7/10. countering blocks was like 6/10, now it's more like 8/10

ttEDGE - William wrote: One thing that really struck me while watching the Chinese practice here is how early they try to take the ball when counterspinning ie always out in front of their bodies. As soon as they let the ball come too close they are forced to open their racket faces and have more upwards movement on their shots which then makes body position and recovery more difficult.

Yeap, I noticed that too, especially looking at Zhang Jike.

racquetsforsale wrote: ttEDGE - William wrote: ...The key about having strong, stable abs contracting at exactly the same time as your wrist rotates through on contact is for recovery after each shot. He likened counterspinning without tense, strong abs to a flat bicycle tire tube being twisted.   The ab contraction braces against the swing, stops the stroke quickly to allow for a fast recovery, not contribute power to the stroke, correct? Thanks.

 

that's true! i did that once and felt like my abs were on fire! i thought it was because of the follow through...not the recovery!

i learn something new all the time =)

BH-Man wrote: racquetsforsale wrote: ttEDGE - William wrote: ...The key about having strong, stable abs contracting at exactly the same time as your wrist rotates through on contact is for recovery after each shot. He likened counterspinning without tense, strong abs to a flat bicycle tire tube being twisted.   The ab contraction braces against the swing, stops the stroke quickly to allow for a fast recovery, not contribute power to the stroke, correct? Thanks.   I have multiball sessions and there is a wall less than 2 meters behind the table, which makes me stay pretty close to the table, which makes me have to loop/recover/loop pretty quickly. Sometime shortly after coach started upping the pace of the blocks and I gained more consistancy, I noticed the day after the lesson that my abs felt like they were really worn out, like I did several sets of 100 situps. That made little sense to me at the time as I have a pretty strong core, but now, that explaination makes a lot of sense to that situation.

Hey William, Thumbs up for going out of your way for helping and providing insight (Chinese practice etc) to everyone in this forum !