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New Tenergy 05 HARD is coming out next Friday 28th

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    Posted: 09/20/2018 at 10:35am
New Tenergy 05 HARD is coming out next Friday 28th!

I am sure everyone will be very tempted to try... I will definitely be buying one, just hope its less than 80$ lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 11:39am
I ordered some . I just need to get a blade built for testing . You can try it out at the club.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danseemiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 2:14pm
Looking forward to the new Tenergy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 2:17pm
Hi,

Please read the review by Stefan Feth on butterflyonline.com.

I must say, I find it difficult to believe that a harder sponge delivers in a manner as described in the review.  Some of the qualities noted, yes, I would expect, others not.

I would be interested in others' thoughts.

Also, this seems to track with the traditional Butterfly strategy: first the professional version, then the softer version in the form of FX, then a harder version than the professional version.

Thanks


Edited by DonnOlsen - 09/20/2018 at 2:20pm
Donn

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PringlesRingles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 3:10pm
Was it the normal price?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acpoulos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 3:17pm
Possibly aimed at Hurricane users...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pr1nc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 5:59pm
Butterfly release new beast of rubber that only pros and advance players can control but now millions of amateurs will chasing T05Hard instead of learning basic strokes with allround rubbers. I hope T05Hard will cost 100€ per sheet so Butterfly continue f*****g monkeys :) Butterfly is best TT brand for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by Pr1nc Pr1nc wrote:

Butterfly release new beast of rubber that only pros and advance players can control but now millions of amateurs will chasing T05Hard instead of learning basic strokes with allround rubbers. I hope T05Hard will cost 100€ per sheet so Butterfly continue f*****g monkeys :) Butterfly is best TT brand for me.
Well, a lot of players can take advantage of T05 Hard, as it's not even as hard as commercial spin art
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 6:13pm
A 15 euro Spinlord Marder 2.0 mm is a much better rubber for about 99% of the amateurs.

Edited by ChichoFicho - 09/20/2018 at 6:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 6:29pm
Funny how people who have never played with the rubber are convinced no amateur player could effectively use it.Might want to wait on judgment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pr1nc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by Pr1nc Pr1nc wrote:

Butterfly release new beast of rubber that only pros and advance players can control but now millions of amateurs will chasing T05Hard instead of learning basic strokes with allround rubbers. I hope T05Hard will cost 100€ per sheet so Butterfly continue f*****g monkeys :) Butterfly is best TT brand for me.

Well, a lot of players can take advantage of T05 Hard, as it's not even as hard as commercial spin art


Its not all about hardness, I used T05 when I trained 2h x 9 times a week for 4 years, and in that time I could control and get 100%from my T05. Now I play 1h x 4 times a week and its a pitty for me to use T05 because I cant get max from that rubber so I use slightly same type of rubbber that is less spiny and slower but with much better control. Its all about training.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 6:33pm
Ist just the Professional version of Tenergy, that will now be openly available
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pr1nc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Funny how people who have never played with the rubber are convinced no amateur player could effectively use it.Might want to wait on judgment.


Funny how people could even think that rubber that cost minimum 60€ and its a upgraded version from T05 is good for beginers and amateurs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

Please read the review by Stefan Feth on butterflyonline.com.

I must say, I find it difficult to believe that a harder sponge delivers in a manner as described in the review.  Some of the qualities noted, yes, I would expect, others not.

I would be interested in others' thoughts.

Also, this seems to track with the traditional Butterfly strategy: first the professional version, then the softer version in the form of FX, then a harder version than the professional version.

Thanks



What in the review did you find surprising? I read it, but I do not really know enough about rubber characteristics to make any kind of judgement.

Mark - Who plans on playing Tenergy 05 Hard as soon as the price drops to $20/sheet.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 7:35pm
Will stick to my cheapo hard tacky rubbers which are already hard lol....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 8:38pm
I am using T05 on my BH and it is pretty soft. I think it is too soft for my taste for a FH. I am surprised it has taken this long.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by Pr1nc Pr1nc wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Funny how people who have never played with the rubber are convinced no amateur player could effectively use it.Might want to wait on judgment.


Funny how people could even think that rubber that cost minimum 60€ and its a upgraded version from T05 is good for beginers and amateurs.


Easy.  First, an amateur and a beginner are not necessarily the same thing.  An amateur is a non-pro, someone who doesn't do it for a living.  Doesn't mean they are weak players or beginners. 

Second, it is a different version from T05.  The "upgrade" aspect doesn't necessarily mean it would be utterly uncontrollable or that it is even an upgrade.  Some people prefer harder sponge, some don't. 

The fact is, though, since none of us have tried it, none of us know quite how it will play; all we have is the Btfly marketing.  If you have played for any length of time then you know enough to take that with a grain of salt (for any manufacturer).  In this case, the price is part of their marketing

Finally some beginners will shell out money for this and be wasting their money but that is nothing new.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 8:50pm
No way I can change to T05H, even if it comes at the same price of regular Tenergy.
For me a DHS Goldarc 8 50° boosted is more than enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 8:52pm
Originally posted by Pr1nc Pr1nc wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Funny how people who have never played with the rubber are convinced no amateur player could effectively use it.Might want to wait on judgment.


Funny how people could even think that rubber that cost minimum 60€ and its a upgraded version from T05 is good for beginers and amateurs.


I'm with pricnic for the most part. Not saying amateurs cant use the tenergy type rubbers, but I think their consistently certainly drops! It's fun using the fast stuff for those awesome winner shots. And they require less effort!

I swapped to using victas 401 -- first from tenergy then to spin art, finally to 401. The added control in short game and chopping was a real benefit. And since I mainly brush loop for attacks, i didnt lose out on much.

I think it depends how you win your points, tenergy can work for anyone at any level if it fits of course!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:



I think it depends how you win your points, tenergy can work for anyone at any level if it fits of course!


Part of the point I was making (although not any level, but certainly plausible at the levels of plenty of people who don't make a living playing TT --- including, I am sure, plenty of people in higher levels of amateur leagues in Pr1nce's home country). 

But the main point I was making is that we don't know how this new stuff will play.  How can you comment about something that none of us have had a chance to try?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:



I think it depends how you win your points, tenergy can work for anyone at any level if it fits of course!


Part of the point I was making (although not any level, but certainly plausible at the levels of plenty of people who don't make a living playing TT --- including, I am sure, plenty of people in higher levels of amateur leagues in Pr1nce's home country). 

But the main point I was making is that we don't know how this new stuff will play.  How can you comment about something that none of us have had a chance to try?



Probably based on all the other tenergies! What do you think is the level in usatt in general for someone to use?

I see people from 700+ using it, not that its put to good use!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/20/2018 at 10:20pm
Hi,

[What in the review did you find surprising? I read it, but I do not really know enough about rubber characteristics to make any kind of judgement.]

The review listed the following below.

Advantages:

  • much easier to counter loop against spinny topspin shots.
  • much easier to play short short game with increased backspin
  • increased amount of backspin while pushing
  • much easier to have a strong first ball attack with lower ball trajectory and deeper ball placement at the end of the other side of the table
  •  much easier to block strong topspin shots
  • increased amount of spin on serves overall
  • very good for the short/short game
  • much easier to make backhand banana and strawberry returns
  • maximum amount of spin in general
Well, I'm not really sure about this list either.  My impression is the two outstanding improvements are increased spin and better control in the small game.  I would not have anticipated this if the sole manufacturing alteration is a harder sponge.

If these qualities hold, then I think the rubber will be more controllable than straight up T05.  The conclusion would be the rubber is also slower than its mom, supporting longer dwell times, which, being a harder sponge, would be a characteristic of the Spring sponge.

As T05 FX has been reported as have similar playing characteristics, we have an interesting complex before us.

Soon our EJ brethren will know all and all those humble souls not in this congregation of expertise will benefit, as we have so very often in the past, from their wisdom and understanding.

Thanks.



Edited by DonnOlsen - 09/20/2018 at 10:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leftstudio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/21/2018 at 1:51am
It is meant to be boosted - just like the Hurricane for China National Team members. I've tried both Hurricane for CNT and Tenergy for National players - it's hard because it is not boosted (if you ask how - here's how: I went to China to visit my coach and he took me to meet some China Team members and they let me try their rubbers). 

Those Tenergy we buy from Butterfly are already factory-boosted. I suppose the T05H is a copy of National rubber line - not sure because I still haven't tried it. One thing I dislike about Tenergy is they break pretty easy - oh and pricey too.

Everybody boosts
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/21/2018 at 8:29am
[It is meant to be boosted - just like the Hurricane for China National Team members. I've tried both Hurricane for CNT and Tenergy for National players - it's hard because it is not boosted (if you ask how - here's how: I went to China to visit my coach and he took me to meet some China Team members and they let me try their rubbers). 

Those Tenergy we buy from Butterfly are already factory-boosted. I suppose the T05H is a copy of National rubber line - not sure because I still haven't tried it. One thing I dislike about Tenergy is they break pretty easy - oh and pricey too.]

Very good.  Thanks for the contribution.  There are many interesting implications and speculations derived from your fine post.

[It is meant to be boosted - just like the Hurricane for China National Team members.]

Is this the first "meant to be boosted" rubber from Butterfly?

We may be confident that "boosting" will not be explicitly stated by Butterfly in the official directions for handling the rubber.

Is there an implication that Butterfly is targeting two types of players for the customer base: 1) Those that like the hard feeling and performance qualities of the rubber out of the package, and 2) The booster crowd?

[I've tried both Hurricane for CNT and Tenergy for National players - it's hard because it is not boosted]

What is the thought captured here: Does that the Chinese National Team boost the non-boosted Tenergy, or do they use the boosted Tenergy right out of the package?

[I suppose the T05H is a copy of National rubber line]

Supposed here is that the Chinese National Team Tenergy 05 uses a different Tenergy sponge than the commercially available Tenergy 05.

From this information, we may conclude that Tenergy 05 Hard is the first opportunity for the general playing public to have access to the Chinese National Team Tenergy, paralleling the purported available National version of Hurricane.

[it's hard because it is not boosted]

Two manufacturing options seem possible here: 1) The Tenergy 05 Hard sponge is the same sponge as the Tenergy 05, just not boosted, and 2) The Tenergy 05 Hard sponge is a materially-distinct sponge from the Tenergy 05 sponge.

[One thing I dislike about Tenergy is they break pretty easy]

When you use the term "break," are you referring to the great tendency of Tenergy to "chip off" from the edges, or are you referring to the decline in performance of the rubber over time?

Thanks again.
Donn

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/21/2018 at 9:27am
It's all speculation till we actually get to play with it. We all know there has been a pro player version for a while and I'm not sure T05 Hard will be a copy of that. Since the top sheet and overall thickness are the only things regulated by ITTF one could speculate there are many different pro player sponge hardness available to professionals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chroot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/21/2018 at 9:34am
Is the price for this rubber set? Will give it a try if it’s not crazily pricey. Saw some “pro” version of T05 listed for sale before. Man, it’s not cheap, even comparing with DHS National H3.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/21/2018 at 9:40am
"[I've tried both Hurricane for CNT and Tenergy for National players - it's hard because it is not boosted]

What is the thought captured here: Does that the Chinese National Team boost the non-boosted Tenergy, or do they use the boosted Tenergy right out of the package?"

yes, the original post is unclear and needs to be clarified


Edited by tom - 09/21/2018 at 9:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote taczkid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/21/2018 at 9:49am
I noticed past 6month to a year that a lot of Butterfly PROS (Boll, Pitch, Freitas, etc) started playing faster more aggressive with more power... Has anyone noticed that? I am wondering if this is due to 05 HARD? I assume so, as timo boll topspins are much harder in 2018 then years back...
I am very excited to try this rubber, Harder tenergy should definitely help with serve receives and short play, (regular 05) often was actint to springy in short gave as the sponge reacted on every shot, with harder shots I think T05 Hard will definitely be interesting rubber that a lot of us will try and perhaps switch to
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juanma4080 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/21/2018 at 10:35am
It’s 43 degrees? I guess?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/21/2018 at 10:52am
I don't think Tenergy is factory boosted, at least not in the way that stuff like MX-P is.  There is no booster smell right out of the package, and the sponge properties are a lot more stable over time (meaning nothing they added to the sponge is slowly evaporating).  Now there is absolutely a type of "speed glue effect*" (for lack of a better word) as a result of the structure of the Tenergy sponge and the pores within it.  Some people think Tenergy gets better if you boost it, but to me that just makes it feel mushy.  A question of taste and I know some 2500 players who agree. 

As for advantages of harder sponge, count me in among those who found that a harder sponge can help a lot with short game, heavy push, and short stroke counters off of heavy topspin.  What that review said seemed perfectly plausible to me.  But that makes it harder to use in other parts of the game, so a trade-off.  I stopped using Tenergy 05 a couple of years ago in favor of something altogether different.  So now I might prefer a harder T05, or maybe not.  No way to know without trying it.

So some people who currently use regular T05 will like this and some won't.  Even among really good players, preferences will vary.

*Speed glue was banned in 2008 and so it has been ten years, which means a good likelihood that a significant number of posters here never played with speed glue.  Which for reasons unrelated to table tennis depresses me.
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