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    Posted: 05/10/2018 at 12:34pm
Horimoto is now world top 10.  Kanak has moved upto 72. Fan is # 1.  
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FZD deserves #1 right now, but I'd still take ML in the finals of a big tournament. Same thing for Harimoto; he's earned his ranking, but more than 10 players I'd rather have in a big match. Getting close though. Kanak's a different story. He's got a long way to go before he's one of the best 75 players in the world. From North America not even Eugene Wang is currently top 100, and I think he would still be heavily favored over Kanak.
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Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

FZD deserves #1 right now, but I'd still take ML in the finals of a big tournament. Same thing for Harimoto; he's earned his ranking, but more than 10 players I'd rather have in a big match. Getting close though. Kanak's a different story. He's got a long way to go before he's one of the best 75 players in the world. From North America not even Eugene Wang is currently top 100, and I think he would still be heavily favored over Kanak.

Heavily favored?  Kanak Jha beat a top 10 player, WCT, 3-0 at the 2018 World Cup Teams.  Perhaps you're underestimating him.
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Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

FZD deserves #1 right now, but I'd still take ML in the finals of a big tournament. Same thing for Harimoto; he's earned his ranking, but more than 10 players I'd rather have in a big match. Getting close though. Kanak's a different story. He's got a long way to go before he's one of the best 75 players in the world. From North America not even Eugene Wang is currently top 100, and I think he would still be heavily favored over Kanak.
Yeah you're underestimating Kanak, and WR has to do with the amount you play as well also. Agree with FZD but Harimoto's ranking is justified for the most part
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Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

FZD deserves #1 right now, but I'd still take ML in the finals of a big tournament. Same thing for Harimoto; he's earned his ranking, but more than 10 players I'd rather have in a big match. Getting close though. Kanak's a different story. He's got a long way to go before he's one of the best 75 players in the world. From North America not even Eugene Wang is currently top 100, and I think he would still be heavily favored over Kanak.


Heavily favored?  Kanak Jha beat a top 10 player, WCT, 3-0 at the 2018 World Cup Teams.  Perhaps you're underestimating him.


does mean WCT overrated. If he losing to player from end of top100 he not deserve to be in top10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pliuya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2018 at 1:23pm
If ML's rating drops out of top 2, the rating system fails. Period.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PythonMonty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2018 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

FZD deserves #1 right now, but I'd still take ML in the finals of a big tournament. Same thing for Harimoto; he's earned his ranking, but more than 10 players I'd rather have in a big match. Getting close though. Kanak's a different story. He's got a long way to go before he's one of the best 75 players in the world. From North America not even Eugene Wang is currently top 100, and I think he would still be heavily favored over Kanak.

Heavily favored?  Kanak Jha beat a top 10 player, WCT, 3-0 at the 2018 World Cup Teams.  Perhaps you're underestimating him.

That was a great win for Kanak. I might be underestimating him, but I think his overall record suggests otherwise. He's clearly getting better, but for now I'll still take Eugene without a second thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2018 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

FZD deserves #1 right now, but I'd still take ML in the finals of a big tournament. Same thing for Harimoto; he's earned his ranking, but more than 10 players I'd rather have in a big match. Getting close though. Kanak's a different story. He's got a long way to go before he's one of the best 75 players in the world. From North America not even Eugene Wang is currently top 100, and I think he would still be heavily favored over Kanak.


Heavily favored?  Kanak Jha beat a top 10 player, WCT, 3-0 at the 2018 World Cup Teams.  Perhaps you're underestimating him.


That was a great win for Kanak. I might be underestimating him, but I think his overall record suggests otherwise. He's clearly getting better, but for now I'll still take Eugene without a second thought.


Kanak is currently competitive with all the top juniors in the world - beat Pletea and someone whose name eludes me now (Moregardh?) in a big tournament but lost in 5 to one of the top Korean kids.   IMO, he is securely top 100 with an incredible touch and table craft game but with power limitations.   So when he plays people it is largely about whether your strengths match up favorably with his weaknesses. But no one who has seriously followed the junior tour and the senior tour recently will underestimate Kanak.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PythonMonty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2018 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

FZD deserves #1 right now, but I'd still take ML in the finals of a big tournament. Same thing for Harimoto; he's earned his ranking, but more than 10 players I'd rather have in a big match. Getting close though. Kanak's a different story. He's got a long way to go before he's one of the best 75 players in the world. From North America not even Eugene Wang is currently top 100, and I think he would still be heavily favored over Kanak.
Yeah you're underestimating Kanak, and WR has to do with the amount you play as well also. Agree with FZD but Harimoto's ranking is justified for the most part

I think Harimoto's close enough to legit top 10 that it's pointless to argue. Not to mention that he's still a fast improving kid with plenty of room to improve his forehand, so probably won't be too long before he's seriously threatening FZD at the top of the rankings.

Don't think I'm underestimating Kanak. He's got the skills and great mental toughness to pull off big upsets, but lacks power. Makes him too vulnerable to bad losses outside the top hundred players to justify his current ranking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PythonMonty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2018 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

FZD deserves #1 right now, but I'd still take ML in the finals of a big tournament. Same thing for Harimoto; he's earned his ranking, but more than 10 players I'd rather have in a big match. Getting close though. Kanak's a different story. He's got a long way to go before he's one of the best 75 players in the world. From North America not even Eugene Wang is currently top 100, and I think he would still be heavily favored over Kanak.


Heavily favored?  Kanak Jha beat a top 10 player, WCT, 3-0 at the 2018 World Cup Teams.  Perhaps you're underestimating him.


That was a great win for Kanak. I might be underestimating him, but I think his overall record suggests otherwise. He's clearly getting better, but for now I'll still take Eugene without a second thought.


Kanak is currently competitive with all the top juniors in the world - beat Pletea and someone whose name eludes me now (Moregardh?) in a big tournament but lost in 5 to one of the top Korean kids.   IMO, he is securely top 100 with an incredible touch and table craft game but with power limitations.   So when he plays people it is largely about whether your strengths match up favorably with his weaknesses. But no one who has seriously followed the junior tour and the senior tour recently will underestimate Kanak.

Well maybe you're right. Hope so because I'm rooting for Kanak. I'll have to check out his record more closely, but as of right now I'm still putting my money on Eugene Wang.
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If Kanak Jha should run into Eugene Wang in a tournament,
my money will be on Eugene Wang to win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2018 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

If Kanak Jha should run into Eugene Wang in a tournament,
my money will be on Eugene Wang to win.


Mine too if the odds is 1:1. The gap between them is a lot narrower right now. I believe Eugene is a top 50 player for sure at his peak performance, but right now he's not there. And obviously Kanak has improved a ton.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2018 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

If Kanak Jha should run into Eugene Wang in a tournament,
my money will be on Eugene Wang to win.
If Kanak run into Eugene anywhere, I think he will get hurt  SmileCry Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2018 at 7:16pm
It isn't certain that Eugene will beat Kanak. Look at the last WTTTC. Kanak beat Kiril Gerassimenko and Carlos Machado. Of course the example of WCT has been given. In the end , if Eugene wants a higher rating, he needs to play more.   But the days of Kanak being overrated are or underrated are long gone. He is a known quantity with strengths that will make him a tough match up for even the very best of a certain kind of player.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote book4all Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2018 at 7:30pm
Not familiar with either Kanak Jha or Eugene Wang. Assume both are top USA No. 1 and No. 2. I wonder what if they are in China, what kind of performance they will be. Top 25?  Or CNT B team?

Edited by book4all - 05/10/2018 at 7:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2018 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by book4all book4all wrote:

Not familiar with either <span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Kanak Jha or Eugene Wang. Assume both are top USA No. 1 and No. 2. I wonder what if they are in China, what kind of performance they will be. Top 25?  Or CNT B team?</span>



in China they only can play in provincial team
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The real issue everyone has with the rankings is Ma Long. He is still the best player and until FZD can beat him at WTTC or the Olympics Ma Long is #1. Like the great Ric Flair says "To be the man, you have to beat the man!" Wooooooo!
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Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

The real issue everyone has with the rankings is Ma Long. He is still the best player and until FZD can beat him at WTTC or the Olympics Ma Long is #1. Like the great Ric Flair says "To be the man, you have to beat the man!" Wooooooo!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2018 at 8:57pm
Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

The real issue everyone has with the rankings is Ma Long. He is still the best player and until FZD can beat him at WTTC or the Olympics Ma Long is #1. Like the great Ric Flair says "To be the man, you have to beat the man!" Wooooooo!

Pro wrestling is fake! :P


You sir have ruined my childhood. Having Ovtcharov ranked #1 earlier was more fake lol!

Edited by jpenmaster - 05/10/2018 at 8:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2018 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

FZD deserves #1 right now, but I'd still take ML in the finals of a big tournament. Same thing for Harimoto; he's earned his ranking, but more than 10 players I'd rather have in a big match. Getting close though. Kanak's a different story. He's got a long way to go before he's one of the best 75 players in the world. From North America not even Eugene Wang is currently top 100, and I think he would still be heavily favored over Kanak.

Yeah you're underestimating Kanak, and WR has to do with the amount you play as well also. Agree with FZD but Harimoto's ranking is justified for the most part


I think Harimoto's close enough to legit top 10 that it's pointless to argue. Not to mention that he's still a fast improving kid with plenty of room to improve his forehand, so probably won't be too long before he's seriously threatening FZD at the top of the rankings.

Don't think I'm underestimating Kanak. He's got the skills and great mental toughness to pull off big upsets, but lacks power. Makes him too vulnerable to bad losses outside the top hundred players to justify his current ranking.


being 14 doesnt guarantee harimoto Fh will get better.now there re many players that can beat harimoto his flaws are known escaped samsonov and the guy from india pitchford owns harimoto easily.
regarding age aegument do you think niwa FH has gotten a lot better since he was 14?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PythonMonty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/10/2018 at 11:43pm
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

FZD deserves #1 right now, but I'd still take ML in the finals of a big tournament. Same thing for Harimoto; he's earned his ranking, but more than 10 players I'd rather have in a big match. Getting close though. Kanak's a different story. He's got a long way to go before he's one of the best 75 players in the world. From North America not even Eugene Wang is currently top 100, and I think he would still be heavily favored over Kanak.

Yeah you're underestimating Kanak, and WR has to do with the amount you play as well also. Agree with FZD but Harimoto's ranking is justified for the most part


I think Harimoto's close enough to legit top 10 that it's pointless to argue. Not to mention that he's still a fast improving kid with plenty of room to improve his forehand, so probably won't be too long before he's seriously threatening FZD at the top of the rankings.

Don't think I'm underestimating Kanak. He's got the skills and great mental toughness to pull off big upsets, but lacks power. Makes him too vulnerable to bad losses outside the top hundred players to justify his current ranking.


being 14 doesnt guarantee harimoto Fh will get better.now there re many players that can beat harimoto his flaws are known escaped samsonov and the guy from india pitchford owns harimoto easily.
regarding age aegument do you think niwa FH has gotten a lot better since he was 14?

It's the nature of 14 year olds to get stronger as they get older, and that alone would make Harimoto's forehand more dangerous. But he's also got great timing and feel as he shows on his backhand and over the table game, and an excellent work ethic, so no reason he can't add some more whip to his forehand and turn it into a powerful weapon in the next couple of years. Unlike Niwa, he won't be limited by small stature. And crazy to think he won't improve tactically as he gets more experience at the highest level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2018 at 7:08am

What will the Chinese do, increase their participation to get better rankings ?
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Do the Chinese care.  Going way back to the Ping Pong diplomacy the Chinese are known for being too polite.  Polite to the point of not looking to embarrass their opponents - willing to lose the unimportant matches. 

As far as Ma Long goes, I think he will win when it counts (if he truly is better), and until then he may not be as obsessed with the #1 ranking as we all might be.


Edited by sderyke2002 - 05/11/2018 at 8:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2018 at 11:13am
With all of the Harimoto discussion, I think props must be given to Mima Ito (nice little move from 7th to 5th).  She continues to improve tremendously with really good deception and variation on her serves and an improved forehand (in terms of speed/consistency/placement).  Really look forward to seeing her at the Tokyo Olympics.
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Originally posted by sderyke2002 sderyke2002 wrote:

Do the Chinese care.  Going way back to the Ping Pong diplomacy the Chinese are known for being too polite.  Polite to the point of not looking to embarrass their opponents - willing to lose the unimportant matches. 

As far as Ma Long goes, I think he will win when it counts (if he truly is better), and until then he may not be as obsessed with the #1 ranking as we all might be.



They do care. Especially for Olympics they want to have the top two seeds so their players won't meet until the gold medal match. If they decide to send Ma Long to Tokyo, you bet they'll have him play more tournaments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2018 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Originally posted by sderyke2002 sderyke2002 wrote:

Do the Chinese care.  Going way back to the Ping Pong diplomacy the Chinese are known for being too polite.  Polite to the point of not looking to embarrass their opponents - willing to lose the unimportant matches. 

As far as Ma Long goes, I think he will win when it counts (if he truly is better), and until then he may not be as obsessed with the #1 ranking as we all might be.



They do care. Especially for Olympics they want to have the top two seeds so their players won't meet until the gold medal match. If they decide to send Ma Long to Tokyo, you bet they'll have him play more tournaments.

Players of a same country will be on separate path and will not meet unless they both get to the final regardless of seeding.  But of course top seeding help in term of playing easy opponent in the early rounds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2018 at 3:37pm

For world tour events, seedings based on world rankings country origin not considered ?


......

Edited by LUCKYLOOP - 05/11/2018 at 3:38pm
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Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

With all of the Harimoto discussion, I think props must be given to Mima Ito (nice little move from 7th to 5th).  She continues to improve tremendously with really good deception and variation on her serves and an improved forehand (in terms of speed/consistency/placement).  Really look forward to seeing her at the Tokyo Olympics.

The race for the 2 singles slot for the Oympics began with the WTTTC for the Japanese girls. The 2 openings will be given to the highest two in WR as of January 5 2020. From the WTTTC, Ito took 2000pts, Ishikawa 1750 and Hirano 1500. These are good for two yrs, therefore qualify for the best 8 ranking points in January2020.
It was a pleasure to watch Ito, with a unique style all of her own, coming to the fore. I think we’ll see al three in Team, but which fwo for the singles?
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Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

FZD deserves #1 right now, but I'd still take ML in the finals of a big tournament. Same thing for Harimoto; he's earned his ranking, but more than 10 players I'd rather have in a big match. Getting close though. Kanak's a different story. He's got a long way to go before he's one of the best 75 players in the world. From North America not even Eugene Wang is currently top 100, and I think he would still be heavily favored over Kanak.

I think Harimoto has greater upset potential - i don't think there's 10 players in the world that would beat FZD, for example, so in a big match, I'd actually rather have Harimoto than some other players ranked say 20-50th.

I'd rather have some other players against say the #50 in the world, but for upsets, Harimoto has great pedigree [in both directions, as he's young, inexperienced  and thus volatile]. He's gone right down to the wire against Xu Xin a few times, Dima, Timo, FZD etc. Those are all the very best in the world, esp. when Harimoto was playing them. The only one missing from the best that Harimoto hasn't had a really strong game at least, is ML, and i'm not sure he's played him yet.




Edited by Basquests - 05/12/2018 at 1:01am
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Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:

Originally posted by PythonMonty PythonMonty wrote:

FZD deserves #1 right now, but I'd still take ML in the finals of a big tournament. Same thing for Harimoto; he's earned his ranking, but more than 10 players I'd rather have in a big match. Getting close though. Kanak's a different story. He's got a long way to go before he's one of the best 75 players in the world. From North America not even Eugene Wang is currently top 100, and I think he would still be heavily favored over Kanak.

I think Harimoto has greater upset potential - i don't think there's 10 players in the world that would beat FZD, for example, so in a big match, I'd actually rather have Harimoto than some other players ranked say 20-50th.

I'd rather have some other players against say the #50 in the world, but for upsets, Harimoto has great pedigree [in both directions, as he's young, inexperienced  and thus volatile]. He's gone right down to the wire against Xu Xin a few times, Dima, Timo, FZD etc. Those are all the very best in the world, esp. when Harimoto was playing them. The only one missing from the best that Harimoto hasn't had a really strong game at least, is ML, and i'm not sure he's played him yet.



Don't worry, ma long is already 30, he would not last long.
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