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Nittaku Premium 40+ Secrets Revealed

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zeio View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12/15/2014 at 2:31am
The material of their version of the new seamed ball has been a well-kept secret.  Actually, so well-kept that I even shelled out of my own pocket for a copy of the Table Tennis Goods 2014 that shipping from Japan alone cost even more than the magazine itself, all to see what I was missing, only to get the same answer as on the Nittaku official site.

But all hope was not lost after Nittaku claimed they were applying for a patent in an FIT meeting over the plastic ball dispute.  And now a little over a year later, the material safety sheet and the patent application have been released to the general public.

Drum roll...ta-da
>>>>>
The "special material tailored for table tennis developed in collaboration with Toray" is a "mixture of Acrylonitrile-Butadiene-Styrene Copolymers and additives", or ABS resin.  Best known example - Lego blocks.
<<<<<

One interesting aspect is that ultrasonic welding is used in the joining of the two halves.



Edited by zeio - 12/15/2014 at 2:52am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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igorponger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2014 at 5:31pm
Nittaku Premium 40+. Sorely intangible ball, because of the ABS specific light weight.

just have completed some ingeneering estimations of the ABS material.
Not much happy about the results..   The proper density of generic ABS material is known for being substantially lower than conventional celluloid, that 1.08 vs 1.36 g/cm3.    Hence, you hardly can create a ball with a mass over 2.70 g in such a way as not to exceed the legal hardness boundaries of 0.69 -0.80.
This means the ABS Ball, if formed with a greater mass, shall always surpass the allowed maximum of hardness of 0.69 mm.
Practically, every ABS Creature of pingppong ball which happens to comes off over 2.70 gramme would give you the nasty stony feel, this is the true reason for Nittaku to keep most close to the lowest possible weight below 2.70gs in making their Premium 40+   

Speaking more explicitly, Nittaku will have to invariably produce their balls at the lower end of weight range under 2.70 g. (unless the hardness regulations revised to a stiffer value some future day).   

I do hate the hollow, indistinct feel of the NITTAKU PREMIUM 40+.
I did better like XSF solid feel. Yes.
   
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Baal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2014 at 6:19pm
I also prefer  XSF for same reason as Igor gives, but NP40+ I think is still quite good.  Certainly these two are better than any of the others.  The NP40+ I have weighed have all been under 2.70 g, so maybe they have managed to be just under that fine line.  They tend to break more than I would like and their price is absurd.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2014 at 6:28pm
@igorponger: So the plastic balls are made from ABS? Interesting, I did not know that but was always wondering what they were using. Couldn't you increase the density to whatever you want by just filling it let's say with titania?
Stiga ALL 2000 '76; DHS H3 Neo 2.1, Dr. Neubauer ABS2 2.3

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2014 at 7:58pm
... and that might account for the very white white color...
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2014 at 8:08pm
Can someone say more about ABS as a material?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2014 at 8:16pm
Should NP40+ become the standard ball in US tourneys I'd have to change my blade, but with XSF I won't have to.  NP40+ feels slightly harder and slower than XSF...not a real deal breaker, but whenever I am countering at high speed the feel is more "dead" than with the XSF.  Or maybe I should change my rubber instead to something softer and faster...this is turning out to be a pain in the a#*!  (I did win the last two weekly open tourneys with my current setup and NP40+ though, so I can't say it's all that bad...)




Edited by roundrobin - 12/15/2014 at 8:23pm
Current USATT Rating: 2181
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Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association.
My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2014 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

... and that might account for the very white white color...

Indeed it would!
Stiga ALL 2000 '76; DHS H3 Neo 2.1, Dr. Neubauer ABS2 2.3

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2014 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

@igorponger: So the plastic balls are made from ABS? Interesting, I did not know that but was always wondering what they were using. Couldn't you increase the density to whatever you want by just filling it let's say with titania?
I think I'm missing something here.  Isn't Titania the queen of the fairies ("A midsummer night's dream" by Shakespeare)?

I'm sure that imprisoning her inside a Nittaku ball might add to the weight, but... wouldn't it be a breach of fairy rights to trap her and then hit her backwards and forwards across a table?  ShockedShockedShocked  And even if we ignored the moral imperative, that's still only one ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2014 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

Nittaku Premium 40+. Sorely intangible ball, because of the ABS specific light weight.

just have completed some ingeneering estimations of the ABS material.
Not much happy about the results..   The proper density of generic ABS material is known for being substantially lower than conventional celluloid, that 1.08 vs 1.36 g/cm3.    Hence, you hardly can create a ball with a mass over 2.70 g in such a way as not to exceed the legal hardness boundaries of 0.69 -0.80.
This means the ABS Ball, if formed with a greater mass, shall always surpass the allowed maximum of hardness of 0.69 mm.
Practically, every ABS Creature of pingppong ball which happens to comes off over 2.70 gramme would give you the nasty stony feel, this is the true reason for Nittaku to keep most close to the lowest possible weight below 2.70gs in making their Premium 40+   

Speaking more explicitly, Nittaku will have to invariably produce their balls at the lower end of weight range under 2.70 g. (unless the hardness regulations revised to a stiffer value some future day).   

I do hate the hollow, indistinct feel of the NITTAKU PREMIUM 40+.
I did better like XSF solid feel. Yes.
   
Ironically, they state the desired density is preferably under 1.2g/cm^3, otherwise the wall thickness would get too thin to meet the hardness and impact resistance criteria.  They can vary the wall thickness between 0.3-0.6mm, the range that can withstand the repeated impacts with the racket and the table.


Edited by zeio - 12/15/2014 at 9:39pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2014 at 9:43pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Can someone say more about ABS as a material?
To perhaps lower our joy, there can be many, many kinds of ABS... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylonitrile_butadiene_styrene
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2014 at 10:14pm
Hey Tassie, we might be talking about a different Titania here so the queen of the fairies is save at least for now. I hope I was able to provide you some comfort.
Stiga ALL 2000 '76; DHS H3 Neo 2.1, Dr. Neubauer ABS2 2.3

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tenisdemesa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2014 at 3:17pm
They break like eggshells,i use one ball every 2 matchs...ridiculous!! Everybody's should come together and complain about it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2014 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by tenisdemesa tenisdemesa wrote:

They break like eggshells,i use one ball every 2 matchs...ridiculous!! Everybody's should come together and complain about it


The NP40+ is not durable, still better than the Nittaku SHA in that regard.  But you are right, for that price, absurd. 

Try XSF.  Plays as well or better than the NP40+ and very rarely breaks, and half the price.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweetstrike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/2014 at 11:18am
This looks like Nittaku's patent application
http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/WO2014175132
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/2014 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

Nittaku Premium 40+. Sorely intangible ball, because of the ABS specific light weight.

just have completed some ingeneering estimations of the ABS material.
Not much happy about the results..   The proper density of generic ABS material is known for being substantially lower than conventional celluloid, that 1.08 vs 1.36 g/cm3.    Hence, you hardly can create a ball with a mass over 2.70 g in such a way as not to exceed the legal hardness boundaries of 0.69 -0.80.
This means the ABS Ball, if formed with a greater mass, shall always surpass the allowed maximum of hardness of 0.69 mm.
Practically, every ABS Creature of pingppong ball which happens to comes off over 2.70 gramme would give you the nasty stony feel, this is the true reason for Nittaku to keep most close to the lowest possible weight below 2.70gs in making their Premium 40+   

Speaking more explicitly, Nittaku will have to invariably produce their balls at the lower end of weight range under 2.70 g. (unless the hardness regulations revised to a stiffer value some future day).   

I do hate the hollow, indistinct feel of the NITTAKU PREMIUM 40+.
I did better like XSF solid feel. Yes.
   

what does it mean 0.69 hardness?  how do you measure that?
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