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No longer Hinoki outerply on BTY?

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jonyer1980 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: No longer Hinoki outerply on BTY?
    Posted: 12/31/2023 at 7:33am
I´m wondering why BTW discontinued former KLH special as well as some other hinoki-cypress japanese outer Hinoki blades such a Jonyer Hinoki, JH Special, or the more recent Kiso Hinoki V-VII. I Particularly did like KLHS due to its lightness and its unique a distinct feeling with provided tons of control and feeling despite being a fiber blade. Apart from Primorac Carbon, hinoki has been vanished for their vast array of blade selection. Sadly, the current mainstream tends to be quite the same: super fast/heavy blades based on Limba or koto outerplys. They indeed claimed to made a breakthrough when it comes to  blade crafting but they barely offer anything from the typical plywood selection. 

Just my two cents. 
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Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing
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stiltt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2023 at 2:29pm
The KLH Special/Premium were both awesome, so was the Iolite. The only reason I can think of for letting the outer hinoki go is its higher cost and lesser efficiency at the highest level due to a bounciness that the best players in the world do not want. Koto and limba outer give the more linear response and predictability they need - they have their fitness to answer the call for speed - and club players want to follow what they say. Brands avoid proposing what's not best for top level players.

Most of the average players -the biggest chunk of the market- will follow the leaders and among the remaining ones, too few will go for the more expensive hinoki outer so it's not a market for the big brands. I mean... how many oldies like you and me are outta there? among them, the ones loving hinoki outer still play their 1997 Iolite/KLS. The only good side of customers like us is that they would forget they bought one only to get another LOL.

A collectible limited series to remember the retired best sellers could make sense though, I am sure it's coming but frankly, I'd rather buy a blade made by an independent builder than a wannabe collectible from a big brand.



Edited by stiltt - 12/31/2023 at 2:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2023 at 2:32pm
Just for the pleasure https://youtu.be/Xz8dkGjDZXU

Edited by stiltt - 12/31/2023 at 2:32pm
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liulin04 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/01/2024 at 2:18am
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Just for the pleasure https://youtu.be/Xz8dkGjDZXU

Looks familiar, is this the one I gifted you? Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/01/2024 at 2:21am
Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

I´m wondering why BTW discontinued former KLH special as well as some other hinoki-cypress japanese outer Hinoki blades such a Jonyer Hinoki, JH Special, or the more recent Kiso Hinoki V-VII. I Particularly did like KLHS due to its lightness and its unique a distinct feeling with provided tons of control and feeling despite being a fiber blade. Apart from Primorac Carbon, hinoki has been vanished for their vast array of blade selection. Sadly, the current mainstream tends to be quite the same: super fast/heavy blades based on Limba or koto outerplys. They indeed claimed to made a breakthrough when it comes to  blade crafting but they barely offer anything from the typical plywood selection. 

Just my two cents. 

Don't forget Schlager Carbon also.  I believe the discontinuation of the Hinoki is due to its limited quantities since Hinoki wood takes many many years to mature and age into playable condition.  I recall Butterfly used to use 300-year old hinoki to make their high end 1-ply hinoki blades.  Take Darker for example, pretty much all of their superior quality 1-ply hinoki jpens are very difficult to find, due to the very very limited amount of hinoki wood remaining.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/01/2024 at 8:11pm
That’s why Photino continues to be one of my favorite blades.
Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)

林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2024 at 5:26am
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

That’s why Photino continues to be one of my favorite blades.

Just that name Photino alone is worthy to be added into anyone's collection.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2024 at 4:57pm
Had the BN Iolite Neo, sold it to liulin. Wish I hadn't. Now loving the old metal tag KLHS with beat up edges bought from Japan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/25/2024 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

I´m wondering why BTW discontinued former KLH special as well as some other hinoki-cypress japanese outer Hinoki blades such a Jonyer Hinoki, JH Special, or the more recent Kiso Hinoki V-VII. I Particularly did like KLHS due to its lightness and its unique a distinct feeling with provided tons of control and feeling despite being a fiber blade. Apart from Primorac Carbon, hinoki has been vanished for their vast array of blade selection. Sadly, the current mainstream tends to be quite the same: super fast/heavy blades based on Limba or koto outerplys. They indeed claimed to made a breakthrough when it comes to  blade crafting but they barely offer anything from the typical plywood selection. 

Just my two cents. 

The Garaydia series has a hinoki outer ply. I tried my friend's Garaydia ALC and it feels quite nice
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aerial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2024 at 8:34pm
was looking into getting this blade, top ply hinoki, but it also got discontinued
https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/joola-rosskopf-emotion-pbo-c
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2024 at 1:19am
Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

I´m wondering why BTW discontinued former KLH special as well as some other hinoki-cypress japanese outer Hinoki blades such a Jonyer Hinoki, JH Special, or the more recent Kiso Hinoki V-VII. I Particularly did like KLHS due to its lightness and its unique a distinct feeling with provided tons of control and feeling despite being a fiber blade. Apart from Primorac Carbon, hinoki has been vanished for their vast array of blade selection. Sadly, the current mainstream tends to be quite the same: super fast/heavy blades based on Limba or koto outerplys. They indeed claimed to made a breakthrough when it comes to  blade crafting but they barely offer anything from the typical plywood selection. 

Discontinued, too.

Just my two cents. 

The Garaydia series has a hinoki outer ply. I tried my friend's Garaydia ALC and it feels quite nice
Rosewood V FL

Nittaku Fastarc G1-FH

Stiga DNA Pro-S MAX BH


Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2024 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:


If you were trying to post something it seems to have been lost
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/28/2024 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by liulin04 liulin04 wrote:

Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

I´m wondering why BTW discontinued former KLH special as well as some other hinoki-cypress japanese outer Hinoki blades such a Jonyer Hinoki, JH Special, or the more recent Kiso Hinoki V-VII. I Particularly did like KLHS due to its lightness and its unique a distinct feeling with provided tons of control and feeling despite being a fiber blade. Apart from Primorac Carbon, hinoki has been vanished for their vast array of blade selection. Sadly, the current mainstream tends to be quite the same: super fast/heavy blades based on Limba or koto outerplys. They indeed claimed to made a breakthrough when it comes to  blade crafting but they barely offer anything from the typical plywood selection. 

Just my two cents. 

Don't forget Schlager Carbon also.  I believe the discontinuation of the Hinoki is due to its limited quantities since Hinoki wood takes many many years to mature and age into playable condition.  I recall Butterfly used to use 300-year old hinoki to make their high end 1-ply hinoki blades.  Take Darker for example, pretty much all of their superior quality 1-ply hinoki jpens are very difficult to find, due to the very very limited amount of hinoki wood remaining.

I dont think 300 year old hinoki does exist in butterfly blades. Its marketing to justify high prices.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hleett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2024 at 3:35pm
Quote
...
I dont think 300 year old hinoki does exist in butterfly blades. Its marketing to justify high prices.
 
Some of them come real close. Heard Japn has a restriction on harvesting kiso hinoki trees with less than 300 years of age. Correct me if I am wrong.




Edited by stiltt - 01/30/2024 at 9:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2024 at 4:21am
They still have 3 outer hinoki shakehand blades:
Primorac Carbon,
Sardius,
Amultart ZL
most recently discontinued:
Garadya ZLC discontinued
Garadya T5000 discontinued
Garadya ALC discontinued
Gergely discontinued

Viscaria, Ma Long 5, Old Clippers, BTY Ovtcharov and Various Custom blades
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonyer1980 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2024 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by emihet emihet wrote:

They still have 3 outer hinoki shakehand blades:
Primorac Carbon,
Sardius,
Amultart ZL
most recently discontinued:
Garadya ZLC discontinued
Garadya T5000 discontinued
Garadya ALC discontinued
Gergely discontinued


Sadly, only PC is distributed in Europe. Getting an imported blade could cost you an arm and a leg. 
Rosewood V FL

Nittaku Fastarc G1-FH

Stiga DNA Pro-S MAX BH


Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2024 at 4:39pm
Looking on Ebay, Schlager Light is also apparently still available from Korea
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2024 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

Originally posted by emihet emihet wrote:

They still have 3 outer hinoki shakehand blades:
Primorac Carbon,
Sardius,
Amultart ZL
most recently discontinued:
Garadya ZLC discontinued
Garadya T5000 discontinued
Garadya ALC discontinued
Gergely discontinued


Sadly, only PC is distributed in Europe. Getting an imported blade could cost you an arm and a leg. 

PC cpen version is more expensive than the shakehand version.
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