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    Posted: 11/29/2019 at 10:33pm
Anyone have an idea on when to get the new schedules for Saturday?

In previous years, you could pick them up at 8:00 and expect to play at 9:00. But now they have an 8:00 round, so I'm not sure when to go down. Suggestions?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/29/2019 at 10:36pm
The hall is open at 7am on Saturday per the sign on the ticketing center.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/29/2019 at 10:56pm
And we are supposed to go down at 7 without knowing whether we're playing at 8 or 9? That's pretty stupid.

But thanks for answering.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/29/2019 at 11:37pm
My understanding is that all but Division 1 started at 8, Division 1 started at 9.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2019 at 10:50pm
A random photo during registration showing some familiar players.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2019 at 10:52pm
Also, I'd be interested in hearing what people thought about the modified schedule when they expanded the team limit to 272 teams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 6:06am
I see so little talk about the NA Teams and by now it is well over...

I kinda get it, when you play on the NA teams, by the time you finish matches, get some dinner, get washed up, one barely has any time for getting juiced up let alone talking about the tourney on the TT forums, before you fall unconscious to get up at 6 AM or so the next day.

Edited by BH-Man - 12/02/2019 at 6:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 6:52am
Learned a new Teams trick: if you want to get into division higher than your actual team level, you bring along an unrated player and give them a very inflated estimated rating. Bingo - you are placed decently to start with and then you can only drop 2 levels at worst.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chongqinghotpot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 7:04am
the division A’s final was really unbelievable, Wang Xing coming back to beat Eugene Wang at the last game of the tournament. More exciting , entertaining to watch than the worlds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 7:14am
True. Also, if you don't want to get into division based on original assignment. You can make top rated person doesn't play in preliminary round. But in general, this practice will not get good results. I guess high rated players losing motivation to play because weak opponent.

In general, it is very good tournament. And met a lot of old friends and made some new friends. So many people already pre-registered for next year Joola team. Can estimate even better turnout next year. A lot of people I know this is the only tournament joined in a year. I think US national and US open needs to learn from this joola team success.

Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Learned a new Teams trick: if you want to get into division higher than your actual team level, you bring along an unrated player and give them a very inflated estimated rating. Bingo - you are placed decently to start with and then you can only drop 2 levels at worst.  


Edited by mentortt - 12/02/2019 at 9:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 9:32am
Some thoughts:

1. This is the best tournament for amateurs for playing a lot of high quality matches. It's always intense, all the time.

2. I wish they could improve the venue. I love the hotel but concrete floors are too tiring when you're playing non-stop for three days. And the lighting is so weird: bright on one table with distracting shadows, then dark on the next. And because every table is different, and we're always playing in different parts of the venue, there's no chance to get used to a specific type of lighting.

3. My biggest complaint is that they tried to do too much when they expanded enrollment to 272 teams. It's not reasonable to expect purple to play at 8 am and 9 pm (8 pm round delayed) on the same day with no break. Plus the fact that many round ended up being 2+ hours late.

I think they should seriously consider dividing this into east and west events. And only scheduling four rounds on Saturday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 10:54am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Some thoughts:

1. This is the best tournament for amateurs for playing a lot of high quality matches. It's always intense, all the time.

2. I wish they could improve the venue. I love the hotel but concrete floors are too tiring when you're playing non-stop for three days. And the lighting is so weird: bright on one table with distracting shadows, then dark on the next. And because every table is different, and we're always playing in different parts of the venue, there's no chance to get used to a specific type of lighting.

3. My biggest complaint is that they tried to do too much when they expanded enrollment to 272 teams. It's not reasonable to expect purple to play at 8 am and 9 pm (8 pm round delayed) on the same day with no break. Plus the fact that many round ended up being 2+ hours late.

I think they should seriously consider dividing this into east and west events. And only scheduling four rounds on Saturday.

Yes, pretty much this (but don't they have already West version of Teams, not sure whether it's JOOLA or Butterfly though). 

You could really tell that there were too many teams and not enough tables to go around this time: most of our team matches were on 1 table, instead of customary 1.5 scenario, and that guarantees delays. A friend told me they finished their last Saturday match around 1 am Sunday morning - and had 8 am match after that. Shocked  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Twiddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 11:08am
Team matches on one table? You have to be kidding. Guaranteed delays. No thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 11:18am
Don't blame that. So many people like that. Is it wonderful whole team support their player?
This is much better than empty table. Very good crowed events! The people like that and they will come back next year.


Originally posted by Twiddler Twiddler wrote:

Team matches on one table? You have to be kidding. Guaranteed delays. No thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Twiddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 11:21am
It goes without saying the teams tourney is the most fun one of the year. But there's no excuse to have matches on one table- what if it is a 5-4 you will delay everyone in your group and that is what happened. Playing on cement and uneven lighting should is not right with the entry fee that was paid.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 11:25am
Most memory moment is 5-4 matches. Doesn't matter win or lose. Players and their family will remember that for a very long time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Twiddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 11:37am
What about the teams that have to wait. Is that not a consideration? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ttunderthesun21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 11:43am
Most of the tables empty up later on, we used the division 1 tables to finish our 8 PM match, since the assigned tables were being used (due to our last game being delayed, so a chain reaction).  Honestly, it wasn't as bad as last year, but they should consider expanding the hall.  Definitely should add more red flooring, I mean come on there is no way they can't afford it.  With record # of players every year they should be making bank.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Most memory moment is 5-4 matches. Doesn't matter win or lose. Players and their family will remember that for a very long time.

That happened to my team a few years ago.  My memory is that to make more money the event was oversold.  We spent a lot of time sitting around waiting for tables to open up.  I haven't been back, or will I go back again.  The memories are bad, not good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by chongqinghotpot chongqinghotpot wrote:

the division A’s final was really unbelievable, Wang Xing coming back to beat Eugene Wang at the last game of the tournament. More exciting , entertaining to watch than the worlds.

Do not read the below if you do not want spoilers.

I can't remember a finals in the past decade of attending that went 5 matches, and has so many competitive games.  It was worth getting home at 2am in the morning to watch it live.  The first and last matches deserved standing ovations.  Eugene was unfortunate to lose both despite having 2-0 leads.  

The most disappointing player for me was Kaden.  To have a forehand that good and yet no patience playing choppers makes no sense to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 5:59pm
My main gripes are
a) bad logistics
b) greed overpowering common sense

a) As a captain I had to stand in line for the team registration for almost two hours. It should take literally 20-30 seconds to register the team.

- What's your team? XYZ... Uh-huh... OK, found it. Here is your sixpack of balls, here is your schedule for tomorrow. Thank you, goodbye.

Bam! 20 seconds.

Of course, not... almost everyone had to pay some extra fees right there in person! WTF?? It would be super-easy to simply email the team (captain) with the PayPal invoice, say, a week before the tournament... after all, when we register the team online, we pay online, so the system is already set up.

Granted, there will be teams with some more serious registration issues - but 90% of the teams will not have them.

On top of that, these people managed to NOT have the free spectator passes promised to the players who made reservation at the Gaylord. Plus, they told me to come and pick the passes in the morning at the same line (team reg.) I dutifully came in the morning, stood in line for 15-20 minutes until I realized that something was wrong - then, of course, I was informed that free passes were being distributed in the individual registration line. I nearly flew off my handle. I was forced to wake up around 6.30 am (so I can get up, take a shower, have a quick breakfast, come to the hall not later than 7.30 so we can warm up and check in for the match) and they still managed to make me lose 15 minutes standing in the wrong line. HANG A FREAKING PIECE OF PAPER saying where the free passes are! Sorry for yelling...

b) And don't get me started on the greed that forced them to try and hold the event in the same hall (they managed to squeeze five-six more tables into the same hall but they had literally 30% more people than last year!). If you announce that 212 teams is the cutoff and you cannot accommodate more than that - then be honest and don't register more than 212 teams... well OK, register five more just in case if some of them will not arrive for this or that reason. But 272 teams with almost eleven hundred players?

Playing at 9am is already not a very fun thing for me, but I absolutely refuse to have any respect for organizers who due to their own ineffectiveness and greed force us to spend 14-15 hours in the playing hall with super dry air, lighting problems, and cement floors.

What if next year the tournament becomes even more popular and 330-350 teams decide to come? What will NATT do? Oh wait... I know - because they already did it! they raised the registration prices yet again trying to either slightly lower the participation or to offset the complaints and problems with the better income (I guess they are willing to be yelled at as long as they are getting paid more).

Overall feeling, after the tourney is over, is exhaustion, disappointment and general feeling of unhappiness - despite the fact that I actually did better than in 2017-2018. However, the only day when I played while not feeling half-comatose was Sunday, after I asked my teammates to take over my captaining duties and to allow me to skip the 8am attendance - so I finally could have a decent night of sleep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Twiddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 6:23pm
This has been going on for years. Same thing in Baltimore before they moved.
212 teams max-- oh wait we'll take an extra 60 -272. The profit on this tournament is enormous and still their customer service lacks.
Just a money grab and little consideration for their customers. You will all be back so who cares??
2 hours in line for registration.... nice way to start.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 7:07pm
Well Jim, mentortt said there would be memories, I think I know what yours were.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Purett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by Ttunderthesun21 Ttunderthesun21 wrote:

Most of the tables empty up later on, we used the division 1 tables to finish our 8 PM match, since the assigned tables were being used (due to our last game being delayed, so a chain reaction).  Honestly, it wasn't as bad as last year, but they should consider expanding the hall.  Definitely should add more red flooring, I mean come on there is no way they can't afford it.  With record # of players every year they should be making bank.  

its the labor cost that kills them its not as easy as many people think to put down flooring
and pick it up afterwards
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moving up to 1001
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ttunderthesun21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/02/2019 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by Purett Purett wrote:

Originally posted by Ttunderthesun21 Ttunderthesun21 wrote:

Most of the tables empty up later on, we used the division 1 tables to finish our 8 PM match, since the assigned tables were being used (due to our last game being delayed, so a chain reaction).  Honestly, it wasn't as bad as last year, but they should consider expanding the hall.  Definitely should add more red flooring, I mean come on there is no way they can't afford it.  With record # of players every year they should be making bank.  

its the labor cost that kills them its not as easy as many people think to put down flooring
and pick it up afterwards

Ah makes sense, i can attest to this i have red flooring at my house, it was super heavy omg.  

Also as other have mentioned, its INSANE that we are in 2019 almost the turn of the decade and these morons make people wait in line for almost 2 hours for "registration" what in wrong with them.  Flat out being captain is the absolute worst.  

Also idk if anyone else noticed, but i had a very hard time finding a trashcan that wasn't attached to an empty water tank lol.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2019 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Don't blame that. So many people like that. Is it wonderful whole team support their player?
This is much better than empty table. Very good crowed events! The people like that and they will come back next year.


Originally posted by Twiddler Twiddler wrote:

Team matches on one table? You have to be kidding. Guaranteed delays. No thanks.
I'm sure your team enjoyed rooting for each other on one table, and I met a team of juniors that refused to play more than one table (so the adults could coach them). Even so, it's just not practical. At 272 teams, even 1.5 tables isn't enough. They should be doing 2 tables per event.

My team was three hours behind at different times.  That makes for very long days.  No tournament should have those kinds of delays, just as no tournament should require 8 am and 8 pm starts on the same day or consecutive days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2019 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by Purett Purett wrote:

Originally posted by Ttunderthesun21 Ttunderthesun21 wrote:

Most of the tables empty up later on, we used the division 1 tables to finish our 8 PM match, since the assigned tables were being used (due to our last game being delayed, so a chain reaction).  Honestly, it wasn't as bad as last year, but they should consider expanding the hall.  Definitely should add more red flooring, I mean come on there is no way they can't afford it.  With record # of players every year they should be making bank.  

its the labor cost that kills them its not as easy as many people think to put down flooring
and pick it up afterwards
That's the standard excuse for not putting out floor mats, but it's cheap manual labor. Or contract out the job for a fixed price. It's time we setup accepting concrete floor on the USA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2019 at 4:43pm
I also agree with purple upset about the long prices for team packet pickup. I think  NATT had a certain routine and doesn't feel motivated to improve. It's the lack of competition.

Danny Seemiller used to run a competitive tournament that had good reports (although it was smaller). Sadly, he settled a few years back. We need that one back in a bigger scale.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2019 at 4:46pm
DELETE


Edited by mentortt - 12/03/2019 at 4:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2019 at 4:54pm
Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

My team or my group's matches mostly are on the schedule. But I do heard several other group's long delay story. Although we lost and most likely no big point change for us, it is definitely fun event. Yes. we are exhausted. I do agree that 2 tables per group are better.

Add: I went to US open last year. In last few days, most tables are empty. So I don't want to go to US Open again. For Joola, even practice, you need to borrow other tables so you can train in diagonal. That is difference.


Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

I'm sure your team enjoyed rooting for each other on one table, and I met a team of juniors that refused to play more than one table (so the adults could coach them). Even so, it's just not practical. At 272 teams, even 1.5 tables isn't enough. They should be doing 2 tables per event.

My team was three hours behind at different times.  That makes for very long days.  No tournament should have those kinds of delays, just as no tournament should require 8 am and 8 pm starts on the same day or consecutive days.
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