Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  Help Desk Help Desk  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Opening loops
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login
tabletennis11.com

Opening loops

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 4530
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Opening loops
    Posted: 06/20/2021 at 9:22am
Experimented a bit with the Timo Boll opening loop (ultra spinny, low and shorter), and it's super effective and close to unreturnable imo even compared to a powerloop, besides being much safer especially when the incoming ball is low. It is indeed quite physically demanding tho... Anyone knows if there's a tutorial to produce somewhat similar on the BH (ultra spinny opening loops)
 




Edited by blahness - 06/20/2021 at 9:25am
-------
Butterfly Viscaria

FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 05
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
V-Griper View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/19/2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 870
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2021 at 7:06pm
I would just stick with Timo for the BH technique as well-






Also some grip detail-





Edited by V-Griper - 07/30/2021 at 7:07pm
YE JTTAA
Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 4530
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2021 at 1:05am
Originally posted by V-Griper V-Griper wrote:

I would just stick with Timo for the BH technique as well-






Also some grip detail-




I kinda dislike Timo's BH, it's too much work for too little results imo.... 
-------
Butterfly Viscaria

FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 05
Back to Top
V-Griper View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/19/2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 870
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2021 at 6:01pm
Hmm that's interesting.

Timo's BH is one of the most efficient at the pro level imo. There is not a lot of wasted motion/energy that I can perceive. I mean there are players that hit the ball harder but they also put in more energy in some form i.e. faster acceleration, bigger swing or stepping into the shot. 

Can you site some examples of players that are more efficient from your perspective?


YE JTTAA
Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 4530
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2021 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by V-Griper V-Griper wrote:

Hmm that's interesting.

Timo's BH is one of the most efficient at the pro level imo. There is not a lot of wasted motion/energy that I can perceive. I mean there are players that hit the ball harder but they also put in more energy in some form i.e. faster acceleration, bigger swing or stepping into the shot. 

Can you site some examples of players that are more efficient from your perspective?



Hmm I like Harimoto's and Lin Yun-ju's BH quite a lot more actually.... I tried the Timo Boll BH movement and it feels super awkward :(
-------
Butterfly Viscaria

FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 05
Back to Top
V-Griper View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/19/2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 870
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2021 at 9:45pm


So more like this?
LJR-



I see a little more torso rotation to the right and his forearm is a little more folded up into his chest on the take back in LJR's BHTS.




And this?
TH

BHTS starts @ 11s






TH's BHTS looks very similar to Timo. He is hitting the ball faster but I'm not perceiving a clear gain in output vs input efficiency between him and Timo. 


What do you see as the critical differences that give LJR and TH more efficiency?


Another TB angle for reference-






YE JTTAA
Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH
Back to Top
mon22 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/05/2010
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mon22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2021 at 9:58pm
Timo went through many ball changes and remained on top. The other younger players based their games on the newer ball. 

It’s understandable Timo’s bh shot may seem like too much work, but all the gains are from the spin and the safety it creates.

Keep in mind he’s the only one the Chinese regarded as one of the best to keep up with them before the ball change 
I am a total Newb. Come at me!
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 4530
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2021 at 10:22pm
Hmm I can't really pinpoint the reason but even the speed from the videos it's quite apparent how much work Timo is putting into the ball but yet the ball speed is quite a bit lower than Harimoto or Lin Yun Ju's backhand...
-------
Butterfly Viscaria

FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 05
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 4530
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2021 at 10:32pm
In terms of BH opening loops however, I was looking through some old videos and I'm starting to like Schlager's movement against underspin where he lifts the entire arm upwards (his elbow can end up near eye level at the followthrough!). This movement seems a lot easier to lift very heavy underspin pushes.




Edited by blahness - 07/31/2021 at 10:32pm
-------
Butterfly Viscaria

FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 05
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 922
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2021 at 11:28pm
For bh openers v. backspin, I like to think of:

-crouching, bending over then pushing from the legs.
-upper body rotates backwards around the hips axle which makes the elbow thrust forward.
-forearm and wrist snap.

I made that video 6 or 7 years ago before I lost 70lbs lol and I still like the routine on the newgy 2050. The 2nd bounce was close to the end line for that practice. The same bh can be used for lower balls crouching more and opening the paddle a bit. 

For what it's worth, the "uncontrolled" wrist snap is essential; by uncontrolled, I mean that we do not try to do anything with the wrist, we just snap it in total confidence and the analogy with throwing a frisbee is perfect to explain the wrist action. The image of tip of the whip breaking sound barrier is a good one too.

I know you know all that, I just enjoy saying it like a sort of prayer sometimes :)


Edited by stiltt - 07/31/2021 at 11:40pm
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 4530
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2021 at 12:34am
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

For bh openers v. backspin, I like to think of:

-crouching, bending over then pushing from the legs.
-upper body rotates backwards around the hips axle which makes the elbow thrust forward.
-forearm and wrist snap.

I made that video 6 or 7 years ago before I lost 70lbs lol and I still like the routine on the newgy 2050. The 2nd bounce was close to the end line for that practice. The same bh can be used for lower balls crouching more and opening the paddle a bit. 

For what it's worth, the "uncontrolled" wrist snap is essential; by uncontrolled, I mean that we do not try to do anything with the wrist, we just snap it in total confidence and the analogy with throwing a frisbee is perfect to explain the wrist action. The image of tip of the whip breaking sound barrier is a good one too.

I know you know all that, I just enjoy saying it like a sort of prayer sometimes :)

Thanks, that's a very nice BH action. I have something similar but for me it doesn't work for fast sudden very heavy underspin pushes (a penhold specialty), usually if I push it back I pretty much get attacked by their nasty 3rd ball which is extremely hard to block back unless I'm in prime form lol. Been figuring out how to get some extra oomph/lift against these backspin balls. Opening the racket angle works but it doesn't produce a lot of spin unfortunately and the penholders also eat those for breakfast (not so different compared to pushing it). 

Something like 3:20 here seems easy and doable haha...




-------
Butterfly Viscaria

FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 05
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.137 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2020 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.