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PLLsystem View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PLLsystem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2010 at 2:51am
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:


all in all, the day was priceless and the blade didn't let me down.
Big smile


Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:


Of the 10 or so wood blades I have played with, the Viruoso reminds me most of a friend's older Avalox P500; his blade was purchased in the late 90's and has better feel/control and spin than newer P500's without giving up much in the pace department. :D

I also owned a P500 when it was Nittaku Avalox P500 and it worked really well. I used P500 with Bryce FX 2.1 glued up at in 2001/2002 season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnny89atc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2010 at 7:29am
Originally posted by PLLsystem PLLsystem wrote:


@johnny89atc
Σας ευχαριστώ για την επανεξέταση. Πρακτική θα φέρει το αποτέλεσμα. Wink


I should thank you for the wonderful blade that you made! Smile
Blade: OSP Virtuoso-L RST 87gr
FH: Butterfly Tenergy 05 FX 2.1
BH: Butterfly Tenergy 05 1.9
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jolan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2010 at 8:07am
I got my Virtuoso this morning . It's 86.2gr, 105/159mm, 5.75 thick. It's, of course, ELCON (Erik Lindh conical) handle. It looks beautiful indeed. Here are some photos :
 

By null at 2010-07-28
 

By null at 2010-07-28
 

By null at 2010-07-28
 

By null at 2010-07-28
 

By null at 2010-07-28
 

By null at 2010-07-28
 
I've dressed it with brand new (it deserves it)  a pair of Yasaka xtend hs max. Altogether 172gr with overgrip and edge tape. Doesn't look too head heavy. Balance comes 5cm from handle, same as nexy spear (with same rubbers). Low sound, like old stiga allround, Legout. A bit lower than Korbel. Nexy spear goes "ping", Virtuoso "pong" ! I shall do a "first impression review" soon. I've been asked by PPL to compare it with Nexy Spear. Might take few sessions before I can make it relevant. I've also started a thread in tennis-de-table.com in order to let my fellow frogs know a bit about these super blades : http://www.tennis-de-table.com/forums/sujet-41847-1.html
 
Keep you posted.
 
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Victas V>01 Limber 1.8mm
DHS G888 1.8mm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PLLsystem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2010 at 8:17am
Thanks for your efforts jcdi.
No worries we know how much time it takes to make a test.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/29/2010 at 2:32pm
JCDI-nice blade!That is what I want ,too.I am also going to try "Ultimate" as I have exchanged blades with another forum member,Chronos.He is also a great reviewer so if he has time he may add something extra to whatever has been said.
PPLsysytem, Ultimate seems to be just slightly heavier and bouncier that Virtuoso.WHich rubbers do you think would fit Ultimate?I have 1 Tensor and 1 goola gp,both 2.0mm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PLLsystem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/29/2010 at 5:27pm
I have played with Ultimate with Tenergy05 2.1, Baracuda 2.0, Rakza7 2.0 and all works well. I like mid soft rubbers, but it turned out that Tenergy05 can also behave well on Ultimate... Just the table was too short LOL

Edited by PLLsystem - 07/29/2010 at 5:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2010 at 12:11am
Ok,I have used the Ultimate today for the 1st time.Very impressive!Of all blades that I have had this particular sample is the finest.A bit unusual for a 7 ply blade-it feels soft or medium soft with TSP triple spin and Mendo MP.The blade has very good control when playing close to the table or in mid zone.I could loop and hook the ball ,probably for the first time in my life like this.Lack of technique,blah,blah,blah,I know.But still,great for looping,blocking,flat hitting.I don't find it being similar to my favorite Nittaku blades,so just want to say it is better vs Stiga Clipper,which is also a 7 ply.Ultimate gives better feedback.I don't want to say that a straight rectangular shape is my preferred handle design,that I,of course,can get used to,but probably a flared,anatomic,or conic(my preferred design)is more user friendly.All and all,this Ultimate is perhaps the Ultimate choice for me today,unless R.Palatinus has invented something else.Ultimate is fantastic in all aspects,I have to be honest.Only one session and I am so impressed.Virtuoso is a nice blade also,but I seriously think that Ultimate is more versatile,perhaps,fits more players than Virtuoso.Ultimate is slightly harder than Virtuoso which I prefer more.Short summary,but as I said I had the blade for 1 day only.Highly recommend to all mytt members to not waste money if you look for one blade.If I can I will do a short video with Ultimate as I really like to share my experience with you.It is unrealistic to send this blade to all 20000 people attending the forum,but it is realistic to show what this blade can do.Thank you PPLsystem and Palatinus for the project you started.Great outcome!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tiehwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2010 at 1:17am
Big smile
You can start by sending this Ultimate to me first for testing after you're done w/it. Thank you in advance.
I was thinking of ordering this Ultimate AND Expert from Lazslo but turned out that Lazslo & family are on weekend vacation or someth'n and also the total $$$ is kinda steep so I might just settle hopefully for the Ultimate for now. I'll wait till Lazslo comes back from holiday 1st.
Based on my experience after playing the Virtuoso for so many weeks, this Virtuoso's arsenals are just amazing and my favourite BH drives used to be my weakest but now I'm just having a blast being able to execute it at free will. ERM...well...I should say the % of getting that particular shot has been vastly improving and my Czech friend can tell you that I'm spot on w/that.
He has been saying like "Dang, your BHs are killing me eh? It ain't used 2b like that....Is it the blade, the rubber (used Haifu BW 2?), you or ALL of the above combined?" Big smile
I gotta play this Virtuoso this weekend again. Just fabulous and can't wait.


Edited by tiehwen - 07/30/2010 at 1:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tdragon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2010 at 1:22am
Not sure if I have a bad luck or not. I purchased the used Virtuoso to try before to decide if I want to buy the new one (even other model). The blade looks great on design. After putting rubber on, I felt something weird on my hand. Take a close look, I realized that the blade is warp. Just couple hit, I felt like the blade could be broken into pieces if I swing hard. It is just a feeling of something not right for the blade. It is a total disappointment since the blade is just like new (even I purchased the used one)
 
In other hand, looping with Virtuoso is great. I could feel that the paddle pulled the ball nicely. Close to table looping is great. Not enough power for far from table (I guess that because of off- blade with combination of Chine rubber - NEO H3). I haven't been sold on the blade yet specially I lost my impression when playing the warp blade Ouch 


Edited by tdragon - 07/30/2010 at 2:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2010 at 1:57am
Tdragon,can you see if the maker will take the blade and does some tests on it.What does it matter if the blade warpes than they may be able to replace it.Just a suggestion and sorry to hear you are disappointed.
Try Ultimate-7 ply will likely never warp.I have an amazing sample.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2010 at 2:16am
Tiehwen,you have a very nicely looking blade.I don't know which rubbers you chose to play with on this blade,but I have definitely favor Ultimate.I realize I may not have played with Virtuoso enough,but I kind of want to focus on Utimate now since it has served me so well today.Incredibly well.I won today against one guy I always hate to play against-pip-out junk rubber on the BH and something soft affixed to a HUGE THICK Newbauer balsa blade.I could make some nice loops and hooks that he wasn't expecting(I wasn't either).I know that if anything Ultimate will be my blade.I am trying to get rid of some blades now so I can fund my new purchase.:)
 ,)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PLLsystem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2010 at 2:42am
@tdragon
If you have problem with it you can send it back to us and we will replace it even if its a test racket.

@tiehwen
It is mainly you are getting used to your combo & a bit features are improving of OSP Virtuoso.

@holda
We know that most of the players dont play like Samsonov LOL but for those who plays for enjoying that sport so level is not national league or etc it is most important to get joy of game via performance via equipment. I would not surprise me that you can exploit advantages of an Ultimate in spite of your skills. I think it is very regular effect and also proves that choosing a blade is not a simple thing..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2010 at 2:53am
I really enjoyed playing with this test sample.I was able to block some heavy top spin shots while playing one of our club members today.It didn't matter as I could use you BH as well as FH for jamming this guy.He is not consistent but if the ball hits the table it is usually impossible to do anything in my case.He has enormous power shots.Some times it feels like the ball is not a ball at all,but a piece of rock that hits my blade.
Smallest head dimension Ultimate/conic handle that is what I really like to have.


Edited by holda - 07/30/2010 at 2:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jolan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2010 at 2:55am
I've had my first session with Virtuoso yesterday and here is my first impression report.
 
Afraid that OFF- blade couldn't bring enough speed, I paired it with Xtend HS max which is a fast german tensor 42.5° low/medium throw. I'm very used to this rubber because that's the one I play with Madash and Redshank. It is matching particularly well with Limba top ply blade. I have given up Tenergy on Limba now, too high throw...
Xtend is very light too.  61gr uncut (max), 40-41gr cut ! That means that oversized (for me...) 159mm Virtuoso will not lead to a head heavy result. So, what happened ?
 
First hits FH to FH and BH to BH had nothing special. Just noticed that curiously, the "pong" sound I reported above moved in "ping". It's slow, according to my standards. It a real Off- blade. Slower than Korbel, for instance. Close to Primorac Off-. No surprise that my shots were safe and controlled.
Started to loop then and was hard. So slow that I had to force. Forcing was causing no spin. Very disappointing. Then I started to block. It was OK, nothing special there. Good control, nice vibes. With light rubbers, the blade is perfectly balanced. Dunno what it would result with Tenergies. Asked my partner to do some pushes,  it was going very high and long. In brief for a first contact, wasn't thrilling at all.
We then started to play sets. The guy is 300 points under ranked to me. I've never lost him. And I lost...! It was frustrating. The more I forced, the worst it was. I was trying to compensate the lack of speed with extra efforts on my shots.
I then played a weaker guy and something happened. I was trying to bring the ball back in order him to have fun. Played gentle and secured shots and suddenly it wasn't the same blade anymore. Speed was back ! Not the kind of speed you're looking for a third ball attack, but rather for controlled mid distance game. Also, I was brushing my loops more that hitting them. Not trying to make point but focusing on regularity. And that was it. No more mistake, no pain.
I then played a much stronger player. A young a fast attackant. I won 4/0. I made no mistake looping, blocking and pushing. I canno't describe the feeling better than sayin' : "It was growing in me". It's not a blade, it's a concept. You have to accept to play the game the blade is made for and then, you are highly rewarded. Incredible feedback leading to major confidence.
The blade excels in mid-distance looping game, opening loops, service returns, flicks. Smash, I don't know. I can't remember doing one in 2 hours game, didn't have to....
Conical Erik Lindh is just perfect. Bring me back a long time ago.
 
PPL asked me to compare it with Nexy Spear. I'm not sure it's a good idea because these are two different species. Spear is much faster (at least, the sample I have, I know opinions might differ...). Faster that Korbel. It's stiffer too. Control is still excellent though. I would say that Spear is a "swiss knife", which adapts according to your needs. It's very versatile.  On the contrary, Virtuoso doesn't compromise. You have to adapt yourself to the blade specs and then you get a wide range of shots. It is difficult to explain, I hope I make myself clear...
Anyhow, I like both a lot and I will continue to experiment.
@Holda : I was hesitating for ordering Ultimate. I already have Clipper, Korbel SK7 and Avalox P700. Now, shame on you, I'm not hesitating any longer !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2010 at 3:08am
I am deeply sorry,JCDI.
Peter79 is the one who seduces me usually with some new TT equipment.
I hope that you will enjoy your new blade as much I have this Ultimate.:)Good luck.
Oh,Clipper and Avalox 700 are 7 plies,but not as versatile,in my opinion as Utlimate.The first 2 have kind of "no feel" perception.Dull.Virtuoso is a 5 ply similar to Avalox P500 somehow.Ultimate is different from all other blades I have had.It is my first 7 ply test sample and certainly a very pleasant one to play,too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PLLsystem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2010 at 3:20am
I like your objective way jcdi and many-many thanks for that test. You cannot imagine how much I am happy that somebody reflects that "there is no best wood..." and there is no miracle since it iy always you whose hand the blade in so it must be only you who can find the advantages of a racket... Well done LOL Wish you many 4:0s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2010 at 9:03am
Pllsystem

I'd agree with you, as we all different and what might suit us, doesn't mean it's the ideal choice for someone else.

Regarding the Virtuoso, what made you decide to produce the Virtuoso, in three different lengths; i.e. 157mm, 158mm and 159mm?

What do you feel are the benefits, that each length offers?

Are the differences between the blades subtle? or different enough to be discernable and suit different types of player?

Basically I'm trying to understand the design philosophy behind designing a blade, with three different lengths; as I can't recall coming across another blade maker ,supplying a blade in three lengths before. I think it's a bold move on your part and I'd like to understand your thinking behind it.

p.s. I will add at this point, that Pllsystem has kindly given me the opportunity to test both the 158mm and 159mm versions of the blade. However, I only received the 158mm Virtuoso two days ago and have played with it for only 2 1/2 hours; whereas the 159mm Virtuoso has had a lot more playing time.

Before I give my opinions on both blades, I would like more playing tlme with the 158mm Virtuoso.


Tiehwen


You are right about the UTC anatomical handle, when you said it was a great handle. I find it fits so naturally in the hand, that i don't even notice it during play. It's a gem.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2010 at 10:15am
Originally posted by tiehwen tiehwen wrote:

Big smile
Based on my experience after playing the Virtuoso for so many weeks, this Virtuoso's arsenals are just amazing and my favourite BH drives used to be my weakest but now I'm just having a blast being able to execute it at free will. ERM...well...

He has been saying like "Dang, your BHs are killing me eh? It ain't used 2b like that....Is it the blade,


I concur. I have noticed an improvement in my BH drive (some of it lesson related) but some of it is definitely blade related, as it gives great feedback on contact and seems to have a very big sweet spot. So not only is it more consistent than the same stroke with my BT550, it also has enough pace and spin to prevent easy counterattacks.

The amount of pressure I can put on my opponents with my backhand is at least doubled.

Originally posted by jcdi jcdi wrote:

I then played a weaker guy and something happened. I was trying to bring the ball back in order him to have fun. Played gentle and secured shots and suddenly it wasn't the same blade anymore. Speed was back ! Not the kind of speed you're looking for a third ball attack, but rather for controlled mid distance game. Also, I was brushing my loops more that hitting them. Not trying to make point but focusing on regularity. And that was it. No more mistake, no pain.


What you are describing sounds like finding the "harmony" between your rubber and the wood. Each wood and rubber combination seems to have different points where you are getting the most out of the catapult or spring effect from the combination. Alternately, I have found points where I get the "least" out of combinations as well (AVX BT550 + Killerspin GT2, open faced driving is miserable, and balls are dead and slow but as soon as I close the face slightly, I bring the wood, rubber, sponge and topsheet into harmony and I produce stronger, faster, spinnier balls with less effort).



Edited by icontek - 07/30/2010 at 10:33am
US1260.RC1042 . Avalox P500 : Tuple 007 Pro + Victas 402DE
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PLLsystem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2010 at 11:23am
@PeterC
Thanks for informing us Peter, it is good to know that we could step forward with making OSP Virtuoso table tennis blade in three different length. To tell the truth it is not us who invented that e.g. Hurricane King was also available in 159 and 157mm version... I was a demand that and since Virtuoso is our bestseller we made it possible to reach those who want the Virtuoso characteristic and feeling but need shorter head. I would not be glad if customers sanded down the had manually LOL

@icontec
What you described is something related to our power core. In spite of the thickness Virtuoso can behave as having controlled consistent power. But I faced that it is not general how to use regarding jcdi's experience.

@all
Anyway practice wouldnt hurt Wink
I am interested what kind of players you suggest for Virtuoso S,M,L?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tiehwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2010 at 11:32am
Clipper is 7 plies POWERHOUSE, but IMHO not quite as versatile as Virtuoso. Clipper has indeed a LESS "feel" perception. A little dull & kinda REMOTE.
Sure, I really enjoy playing w/my 86g Clipper w/Banda Sigma FH & Focus 3 BH, this combo doesn't have that "Tok, tok" high pitch sound as Virtuoso Combo, I don't feel the ball sinks more/deeper into the rubber/wood w/Clipper. Clipper is also a joy to play with but Virtuoso fun/satisfaction factor is at least couple notches more. I had to really focus not to overdo things w/ Clipper BUT w/ Virtuoso? hah....I'm free, free to do the whatever shots I always dreamt of or never dreamt of accomplishing. Just pure joy.
Would ULTIMATE provide a little bit of more speed but not sacrificing the control/feel/feedback attributes?
I hope so and lemme really think about this....
 


Edited by tiehwen - 08/03/2010 at 9:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PLLsystem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2010 at 6:25am
What you will get with Ultimate is (same, spring sponge like rubbers glued on): 10% speed, +2% head balance, +5% sharpness & biting, 1-2% easier wrist moves
What you will lose: 5-7% arc, bit more difficult receive serves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PLLsystem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2010 at 3:00am
Our experiences on head shape and head length correlations.

The regular theory on shape:
(based on ~10yrs experience from world leading coaches/players)
Oval (egg) shape head gives advantages for BH orientated players while round & angular rackets afford advantages for FH orientated players.

About head physics of size (supposed only the size altering eg. Virtuoso S,M,L):
The longer head results bigger amplitude and shorter (higher) frequency and due to the longer head you have bit more head balanced that provide more BH dynamism orientated racket that fits best for mid distance playing.
The shorter head makes smaller amplitude and longer (lower) frequency behavior of the head. It suits for FH orientated players a bit closer the table playing.

We see that many of you use heavy chines rubbers that would work better on S or M Virtuoso due to
1. the shorter head that saves weight
2. fits better for close to the table chinese style
3. let you work better the right counter based strokes starts from up (when you play that style you keep your racket open end up)
L Virtuoso is not your racket since you could not enjoy distance play because of the tacky surface that grabs the ball so you lose power at all through your rubber.
During distance play with chinese rubbers you need angle that differs from close game and need huge movements. We think that for those who play not close to the table game with chinese needs rather Ultimate.

We branched out S,M,L versions to make better chance for you to find proper racket provides the Virtuoso feeling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2010 at 8:59am

Virtuoso L (159mm) v Virtuoso M (158mm)



Rubbers used in testing :

Virtuoso L  :  2.15mm TG3 Neo, 2.15mm H3 Neo; 2mm Demian; 2mm Palio Blitz
Virtuoso M : 2mm Palio Blitz; 2mm Platin; 2.1mm Tenergy 05; 2.1mm Tenergy 64

As 2mm Palio blitz is the only rubber to be used on both Virtuoso's, I will use that as a reference point.

What is different between the two blades? :

The only differences between the two blades is one mm in blade face length and a slightly different shape to the blade face; which is still enough to produce noticeable differences.

Performance :

I'll start by saying both are very good blades and unique feel to them. Both are good choices for a lot of players.; however i do feel the way they play is slightly different, will mean each will suit slightly different types of players.

I can happily play with both; but I will admit now, that I do prefer one over the other; as it's better suited to my game.

 
Virtuoso L

1) It has a bit more flex and a bigger catapult effect; which is a benefit for those who like a blade that gives them a bit more dwell time.

2) However; the trade off is the flex means slightly adjusting your timing when looping harder and smashing, particularly when close in; compared to the Virtuoso M.

3) JCDI mentioned this blade was good for controlled looping and I'd agree with that. In fact; it is very consistent; for playing an all round, offensive game; using a wide range of shots varying spin, speed and placement.

However, it is not as easy to dial up the power and maintain the same consistency, particularly when forehand looping and I initally found myself missing the end of the table more than usual, with Palio Blitz.

Smashing likewise seemed a bit harder, due to the flex.

If your game is based on controlled looping and you're not a hard hitter, then this blade has a lot to offer.

Virtuoso M

1) The extra bit of stiffness of the Virtuoso M, gives me better overall control, compared to the Virtuoso L; particularly when playing closer to the table.

2) My backhand control, accuracy and consistency is higher; particularly on faster topspin shots; with  Palio Blitz and Tenergy 05.

3) Unlike the Virtuoso L, I don't feel I need to dial down the power either, on either wing when looping; to keep the ball on the table.

Quite the opposite; my forehand loops with 2.1mm Tenergy 05 last night, with a training partner; were more powerful, spinnier and faster; than with 2mm Palio Blitz, on either Virtuoso.

4) The little extra bit of stiffness was also a benefit in the short game and I was pleased with how well it worked with Tenergy 05 and Tenergy 64; in that area of the game..

5) Smashing felt easier and deadlier too; i.e. less returned.

6) I'd say the slight loss in dwell time compared to the Virtuoso L, is more than compensated for by the extra stiffness; as it allows me to play a more varied overall game. Because I can hit harder with more consistency, it means that speed becomes a more effective weapon, for putting on an opponent under pressure.

Summary :


Of the two, it is obvious by now that I prefer the Virtuoso M; as it suits my game better.

Even though I've only had about 9 hours playing time with this blade, which is a lot less than with the Virtuoso L; I've already played enough with it to know that I consider it the better design of the two; as it's allows me to play a more varied game, than the Virtuoso L.

JCDI has made the comment that if you play a controlled allround/offensive game, the Virtuoso L rewards you a wide range of shots and would be a good choice for that type of player.

Whereas he felt the Nexy Spear was like a "Swiss army knife"; i.e. a more versatile blade, as it allowed him to add more variations to his game and I've already written in my review of the Spear, that I consider it the most versatile of the Nexy blades I've tested too.

Comparing the Nexy Spear to the Virtuoso M, is a much closer call as both are versatile blades; that allow you to add variations to your game and both are good enough to satisfy a lot of players.

If I only have one blade to play with; then I'd choose the Virtuoso M, simply because I prefer its anatomical handle and feel more.

That's not in anyway a reflection on the Nexy Spear, it's just my preference.




Edited by Peter C - 08/05/2010 at 9:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PLLsystem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2010 at 9:11am
Thanks for that detailed test PeterC, I hope that helps for those who cannot decide. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liquid Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2010 at 9:14am
PeterC did you compare the weight of the two Virtuosos?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2010 at 9:18am
Originally posted by Peter C Peter C wrote:


Virtuoso L (159mm) v Virtuoso M (158mm)



Rubbers used in testing :

Virtuoso L  :  2.15mm TG3 Neo, 2.15mm H3 Neo; 2mm Demian; 2mm Palio Blitz
Virtuoso M : 2mm Palio Blitz; 2mm Platin; 2.1mm Tenergy 05; 2.1mm Tenergy 64

As 2mm Palio blitz is the only rubber to be used on both Virtuoso's, I will use that as a reference point.

What is different between the two blades? :

The only differences between the two blades is one mm in blade face length and a slightly different shape to the blade face; which is still enough to produce noticeable differences.

Performance :

I'll start by saying both are very good blades and unique, which a nice feel to them. Both are good choices for a lot of players.; however i do feel the way they play is slightly different, will mean each will suit slightly different types of players.

I can happily play with both; but I will admit now, that I do prefer one over the other; as it's better suited to my game.

 
Virtuoso L

1) It has a bit more flex and a bigger catapult effect; which is a benefit for those who like a blade that gives them a bit more dwell time.

2) However; the trade off is the flex means slightly adjusting your timing when looping harder and smashing, particularly when close in; compared to the Virtuoso M.

3) JCDI mentioned this blade was good for controlled looping and I'd agree with that. In fact; it is very consistent; for playing an all round, offensive game; using a wide range of shots varying spin, speed and placement.

However, it is not as easy to dial up the power and maintain the same consistency, particularly when forehand looping and I initally found myself missing the end of the table more than usual, with Palio Blitz.

Smashing likewise seemed a bit harder, due to the flex.

If your game is based on controlled looping and you're not a hard hitter, then this blade has a lot to offer.

Virtuoso M

1) The extra bit of stiffness of the Virtuoso M, gives me better overall control, compared to the Virtuoso L; particularly when playing closer to the table.

2) My backhand control, accuracy and consistency is higher; particularly on faster topspin shots; with  Palio Blitz and Tenergy 05.

3) Unlike the Virtuoso L, I don't feel I need to dial down the power either, on either wing when looping; to keep the ball on the table.

Quite the opposite; my forehand loops with 2.1mm Tenergy 05 last night, with a training partner; were more powerful, spinnier and faster; than with 2mm Palio Blitz, on either Virtuoso.

4) The little extra bit of stiffness was also a benefit in the short game and I was pleased with how well it worked with Tenergy 05 and Tenergy 64; in that area of the game..

5) Smashing felt easier and deadlier too; i.e. less returned.

6) I'd say the slight loss in dwell time compared to the Virtuoso L, is more than compensated for by the extra stiffness; as it allows me to play a more varied overall game. Because I can hit harder with more consistency, it means that speed becomes a more effective weapon, for putting on an opponent under pressure.

Summary :


Of the two, it is obvious by now that I prefer the Virtuoso M; as it suits my game better.

Even though I've only had about 9 hours playing time with this blade, which is a lot less than with the Virtuoso L; I've already played enough with it to know that I consider it the better design of the two; as it's allows me to play a more varied game, than the Virtuoso L.

JCDI has made the comment that if you play a controlled allround/offensive game, the Virtuoso L rewards you a wide range of shots and would be a good choice for that type of player.

Whereas he felt the Nexy Spear was like a "Swiss army knife"; i.e. a more versatile blade, as it allowed him to add more variations to his game and I've already written in my review of the Spear, that I consider it the most versatile of the Nexy blades I've tested too.

Comparing the Nexy Spear to the Virtuoso M, is a much closer call as both are versatile blades; that allow you to add variations to your game and both are good enough to satisfy a lot of players.

If I only have one blade to play with; then I'd choose the Virtuoso M, simply because I prefer its anatomical handle and feel more.

That's not in anyway a reflection on the Nexy Spear, it's just my preference.


 
Coming this review from PeterC whose politness tends to say that white is a lighter black, this test means that M design (ejmaster's) is LOT better (in average (maybe 80% people)) than L design (original design). That means an improvment, though the best wood is what suits you.
 
Thank you PeterC for your honest opinion. This time some more defined.


Edited by ejmaster - 08/05/2010 at 9:20am
EJ Club.

MM T05(fh)/Srvfx(bh); InfVps,LSW,Viscaria,RwV,TBAlc,PG7,yextsc,yeo. EJmaster wood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legout_de Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2010 at 9:19am
It seems, that there are very much differences between your two blades. Do you really think this differences can be explained by 1 mm headsize?

I think, that the differences in playing characteristics between two identical blades due to the fact, that there are no identical veneers, would be much greater than caused by 1mm smaller headsize. 
Sanding 1mm away from your Virtuoso L to get another Viruoso M and you will see, that this one would be completly different compared to your first Virtuoso M.

The main difference would be the change in balance.

legout   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2010 at 9:25am
Originally posted by legout_de legout_de wrote:

It seems, that there are very much differences between your two blades. Do you really think this differences can be explained by 1 mm headsize?

I think, that the differences in playing characteristics between two identical blades due to the fact, that there are no identical veneers, would be much greater than caused by 1mm smaller headsize. 
Sanding 1mm away from your Virtuoso L to get another Viruoso M and you will see, that this one would be completly different compared to your first Virtuoso M.

The main difference would be the change in balance.

legout   
 
wrong,
 
1 mm in head size in Virtuoso changes the blade noticeable.
 
Just sand your L to a M and see if the M plays the same as the former L.
 
legout you have no idea.
 


Edited by ejmaster - 08/05/2010 at 9:30am
EJ Club.

MM T05(fh)/Srvfx(bh); InfVps,LSW,Viscaria,RwV,TBAlc,PG7,yextsc,yeo. EJmaster wood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2010 at 9:27am

the main difference is not the balance, it is the stiffness.



Edited by ejmaster - 08/05/2010 at 9:29am
EJ Club.

MM T05(fh)/Srvfx(bh); InfVps,LSW,Viscaria,RwV,TBAlc,PG7,yextsc,yeo. EJmaster wood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2010 at 10:06am

Liquidsky

Both are very close in weight; so it didn't affect the review.



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