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Practise Blade & Match Blade

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CraneStyle View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09/09/2013 at 4:06pm
Is it possible to practice and play with two different rated blades?

I'm talking about the same rubbers FH & BH on each blade.

One blade rated Off+ (practise) the other rated Off (matches)

I ask because I have a sealed blade waiting to be made up. I am happy with my current Off+ set-up and I am wondering if I should just wait 'till I "fall-out" with my current set-up. Or set-up the brand new Off blade with the same rubbers and use it for matches only.

I've noticed some members list that they have 1, 2 & 3 bats listed (I think in priority order). Are you guys playing with all the different set-up for matches, or are some set-ups for fun. ..? I'm interested please...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W0LovePP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2013 at 4:10pm
Wondering about the same question, but slightly for a different situation. A setup for robot practice, and another setup for matches. Should I use the same one, or different one?
 
For better consistency, probably the same setup should be used.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2013 at 4:15pm
@W0LovePP Yeah... I suppose that's the obvious answer to use the same blade...

But I have the bade waiting that I thought was a notch down from my current blade, based on its ratings and what I have read in the forum. .. Could there be any benefit from practising with a slightly faster blade though...?


Edited by CraneStyle - 09/09/2013 at 4:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2013 at 5:32pm
Maybe I should have called the post "Practice Tenergy vs Match Tenergy"... to get some interest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adishorul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2013 at 6:01pm
Maybe you should have some patience and wait for the members of this forum to share their thoughts .. just let them think for one minute :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2013 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by adishorul adishorul wrote:

Maybe you should have some patience and wait for the members of this forum to share their thoughts .. just let them think for one minute :)

It'd also help to know your playing level and goal.  Are you planning to play tournaments or hobby?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2013 at 6:27pm
Hi Cranestyle
In general, the more serious your involvement, the more likely it is that your 'spare' would be pretty much identical, so that if your match bat breaks you can use the spare with full confidence.

But bear in mind that many of us, while we can remember when we were serious, have been diverted over the years to experiment for fun.
And of course some combo LP/inverted players use different setups as part of their plan to disrupt their opponent. But the higher the standard the less you see of this sort of player, basically because being comfortable with 2 different setups requires more practise time than most amateurs have.
I would say that if you are an improving young tournament player you should be practising 95% of the time with your match setup or a spare that you hope is identical.
A very useful fun variation to have in the bag is a hardbat. Its so different from inverted it wont confuse you like having 2 slightly different sponge bats would, and it will sharpen you up mentally
Hope this helps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2013 at 8:31pm
Thanks for the replies guys... I apologies for my impatience and in experience in forum response time...

I am a returning a TT player who has gone through what could be described as a mini EJ phase to find a set-up I'm happy with. I will be playing local league TT this season and do plan to enter tournaments next year. I was a city squad player as a Junior and have a very coached conventional style (think wanna be Ma Long BH meets wanna be Orcharov FH).

I attend weekly coaching sessions and have 2 additional playing sessions with one being just drills with my playing buddy.


Edited by CraneStyle - 09/09/2013 at 8:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2013 at 10:52pm
To me it makes no sense to practice with one setup and then play serious matches with something different.  You practice to develop your feel and timing and everything about the way you play for one thing-- and then play serious matches with something else?  That would certainly add an extra challenge!  But Pingpongpaddy makes a good point too.  For some people there really is no such thing as a serious match.  Trying new stuff is fun.  I figured out, though, that the best way to do that is try other people's blades LOL  


Edited by Baal - 09/09/2013 at 10:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2013 at 7:04am
I always use the same setup. I only use my spare when I play some newbies, it forces me to concentrate on the game more, so it's good for both sides.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2013 at 7:09am
A recent new training philosophy is named "differential training". It promotes deliberate variation of technique (also deliberate "wrong" technique / learning from mistakes), based on the assumption that the body/mind will learn more from variation compared to consistent training drills. Based on this, a change of frame could also contribute to a faster learning experience but of course this should all be exercised within a certain context. First of all I'm sure you need to be aware of the relation between different frames and playing style.  With that in mind you can start playing around with different frames, preferrably changing them during the trainingsession in order to learn by comparison. Considering the complexity, I assume this will only be usefull after a player has reached a certain level of play and understanding.
I have chosen to play&train with a certain type of frame, based on the playing style I want to master (e.g. a soft flexible frame during the time I want to improve my looping skills) and switch to another type of frame by the time I want to master a different technique.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2013 at 7:24am
On second thought, "differential training" would probably stimulate the experience of switching equipment in an early stage, to speed up the learning curve iso waiting with these kind of experiences untill a certain level has been reached. This contradicts the common culture/belief of a steady training progression in which first a stable basis has to be established.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2013 at 10:23am
Very interesting ...

@Pingpongpaddy - I asked two top players only last week if playing Hardbat help their game. One of the guys was practising for a tournament and he said yes. His playing partner looked like he had been doing Sudoku on a unicycle and looked totally fried - He said that is takes a couple of hours to get used to your normal bat after paying Hardbat. So it sounds like it definitely works as a brain teaser that could improve sponge bat TT.

@Baal - Are suggesting that taking a break from your own set-up as a way of focusing the mind, giving your bat a rest, or just fun?

@Hopper - This is an interesting concept which may contribute to the new bat syndrome - Where the new bat works better because we focus more (probably because we want it to be better). I wonder if using two not too different bats would focus the mind and TT touch. ...?

@mhn007 - That's interesting... Both resting your best bat and testing yourself keeping focused whilst "playing" against players you could easily beat. So, doing this doesn't disrupt your normal game too much with your favourite bat. ...?


When I have searched the net to see what other players are doing I found nothing at all about Practise & Match Bat/ Blade, which is the reason I brought it to the forum. I'm sure lots of players are interested in this question even if the answer may be obvious to some.

When I'm training beating balls and feeling really good I sometimes think Wow! am I wearing out my rubbers in training sessions? I guess this is similar to what @W0LovePP was thinking. ...

I considered buying a duplicate blade, then the issue of variations of blades within a particular model comes up. Hummm... try and get the same weight... Could still be different, from what I have read...

Are there any other options available to using the same set-up 'till the rubbers are dead then changing? Even though its fair to say that most of the rubbers' life on the favourite set-up has been used Practising...?

Edited by CraneStyle - 09/10/2013 at 10:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2013 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by CraneStyle CraneStyle wrote:


@mhn007 - That's interesting... Both resting your best bat and testing yourself keeping focused whilst "playing" against players you could easily beat. So, doing this doesn't disrupt your normal game too much with your favourite bat. ...?

What do you mean resting? My best bat is my main bat, which I play all the time.  I only use the spared one enough to make sure there is no surprised, in case I need it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2013 at 4:12pm
@Mhn007 - I was thinking about minimising the use of your main bat when I said "resting".

Ok... I think understand what you mean now....

You keep comfortable with your main bat and a back-up bat so you can be familiar with your back-up bat if you need it. But you tend to get your back-up bat out when playing newbies when you don't need your A-game, which gives you the opportunity to keep familiar with your back-up bat. ..?

That makes a lot of sense... A real life multiple bat tip...


Thanks!


Originally I was thinking that my match bat would come out only for matches and tournaments. It would have its own case, I would open the case and like Pulp Fiction the choirs would sing and a golden glow would emit from the case...

Of course I'm dreaming... It seems my match bat will be used more often than just matches...


Any more ideas please...?

Edited by CraneStyle - 09/10/2013 at 4:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2013 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by CraneStyle CraneStyle wrote:

Very interesting ...

@Pingpongpaddy - I asked two top players only last week if playing Hardbat help their game. One of the guys was practising for a tournament and he said yes. His playing partner looked like he had been doing Sudoku on a unicycle and looked totally fried - He said that is takes a couple of hours to get used to your normal bat after paying Hardbat. So it sounds like it definitely works as a brain teaser that could improve sponge bat TT.


Exactly, playing hard bat forces you to try to win without extreme power or spin.
You'll learn to use just your touch and placement to win points and the value of hitting through inverted players spin serves- these things will give you ideas on shots to try with inverted as well, though of course the feeling of the inverted shots is much less than with hardbat

Edited by pingpongpaddy - 09/11/2013 at 4:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote frogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2013 at 5:51pm
Always carry a good hardbat in your bag. Always use a hardbat when you play table tennis on a cruise. If the competition is out on the deck a sponge bat will be worthless due to the salt air. Also hardbat is a fun break from your normal bat and helps keep your strokes honest. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2013 at 6:27pm
Ok... To satisfy the Hardbat option, I've got an TSP Balsa Fitter 5.5 that I will never use again. Can I water based glue some cheap OX rubbers to it to make a Hardbat..?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2013 at 8:52pm
Originally posted by CraneStyle CraneStyle wrote:



@Baal - Are suggesting that taking a break from your own set-up as a way of focusing the mind, giving your bat a rest, or just fun?


Sorry Crane.  I was actually making a sarcastic remark and I am just lucky that you were not offended by it.  Embarrassed  My remark about it being "an extra challenge" meant that I thought it was in general a terrible idea because it would make you more likely to lose when you played for real with your "competition"  blade which is not the one you have been practicing with.

I would never recommend taking a break from your normal setup at all if you are really serious about improving.  Practice with what you play with.  "If you don't practice like you play, you won't play like you practice" somebody once told me. 

But it is true that people list here quite a few different setups.  I suspect they use one of the most of the time and only use another one occasionally for fun -- and if not, I really don't understand it at all of they are seriously competitive.  It makes no sense to me, at least.  Of course, it is also true that some people are not that obsessed if they win or lose, enjoy playing different styles for the fun of it.  That makes sense to me.  You get good exercise either way.  And some people just like to see what other stuff feels like for a few minutes (that would be me, these days always with other people's blades).  Some people EJ desperately looking for something that will let them play better.  That was me once, but not for a long time.  I actually believe that once in awhile there are equipment changes that can help you a bit. More often you spend a lot of money and gain little, especially when the changes are pretty subtle..  

Hardbat is different though.  The feel of that and the way you hit the ball and the resulting tactics are so radically different that there is no real confusion that comes from playing that way too.  Just think of it as more or less an entirely different sport.  Not better or worse, different.  



Edited by Baal - 09/10/2013 at 8:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2013 at 12:50am
Another fun question is WHY we use crappy 1 star training balls for serious training, then go right around and use expensive 3 star balls for matches.
 
Answer is of course almost no one has the money to replace 144 expensive 3 star balls a month.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rolli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2013 at 7:38am
Hi CraneStyle,

I play 2 Bats in different Setups (Main-Bat OFF-, second All+, different rubbers, off course).
The OFF- for serious matches with well playing opponents and the All+ for training my students-team.

Since I re-entered the TT-Sport last year after 25 years not playing and playing a full season since I am a club-member (after 2 training-sessions) I am happy with my 2 Setups.

The ALL+ is a bit to slow for me now, but worth to use in training my students and other team-members.


Blade 1: Donic Burn aratox RS
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BH: Joola Maxxx max.
Weight: 171gr.

Blade 2: andro Super Core Cell All+
FH: Friendship 729 Higher 1.8
BH: Friendship 729 Higher 2.0
Weight: 182gr.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CraneStyle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2013 at 3:55pm
@Rolli - That's interesting... And your match bat is faster, though is sounds like you plan to up-rate it soon.

Doesn't sound like it has caused you any problems. Do you have to regularly keep in touch with your match bat or does it feel more natural than the bat you use to train students with so it's a more natural fit anyway, if you know what I mean...?


Thanks for the insight...

Edited by CraneStyle - 09/11/2013 at 3:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rolli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/15/2013 at 1:28pm
Hi there,

yup, my Main-Bat is much faster than my training-bat.

I could use both in training, but I decided to give the students-team-members a chance Wink

Nope, back to normal: I could use them both in training and in tournaments, the training-Bat is a good one to play against pimples, so easy to avoid cuts b/c its so slow Big smile.

But now I play only the Main-Bat for different reasons and use the other one only for training with the kids.

The Donic feels like a real natural extension of my arm. It's so stable and comfortable to hold even if I play very fast I can place my returns where I want to.
I've looked a lot around and played some very expensive Bats of my club-mates and this Donic Blade was the only one that impressed me that much from start to finish.

For the beginning season I've bought it and fitted it with the new Joola Maxxx-Rubbers that I was able to test-play at my local TT-Store.

Even when I play against opponents that are much more higher ranked than me now (~200-250 qTTR-Points more than me (it's equivalent of 260-320 Difference in Points in USA) and yup, we all play in the same league) almost every match I get very close now Clap.

After this season, I hope, I am way more better with this bat than in the last season I've played.

I hope that you do understand what I wrote, my schools-english is somehow not as well trained than my TT-skills.

Sincerely
Roland


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Weight: 171gr.

Blade 2: andro Super Core Cell All+
FH: Friendship 729 Higher 1.8
BH: Friendship 729 Higher 2.0
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/15/2013 at 2:14pm
Its all part of your strategy.
But as stated above, also depending on your level of play.

As we know, no 2 identical setup will be 100% the same. Because of different wood, or different glue job, or simply inconsistency in rubbers.
It is up to the player to adapt to his or her setup as quick as possible.
This same adaption also applies to ball, table, air, altitude, noise, lighting etc.

So if you want to practice with one and match with another - to me, it is silly, but not impossible.

I do know some people prefer specific setup to play against choppers. and will go back to their main setup for 2 wing players. so this is strategic decision.


Edited by ZApenholder - 09/15/2013 at 2:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rolli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/15/2013 at 2:50pm
Hello ZApenholder!

Originally posted by ZApenholder ZApenholder wrote:


So if you want to practice with one and match with another - to me, it is silly, but not impossible.


I practice only with my students with my 2nd setup.
For my own practicing I only use my Main-Bat.

Rolli
Blade 1: Donic Burn aratox RS
FH: Joola Maxxx 2.0
BH: Joola Maxxx max.
Weight: 171gr.

Blade 2: andro Super Core Cell All+
FH: Friendship 729 Higher 1.8
BH: Friendship 729 Higher 2.0
Weight: 182gr.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/15/2013 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by Hopper Hopper wrote:

A recent new training philosophy is named "differential training". It promotes deliberate variation of technique (also deliberate "wrong" technique / learning from mistakes), based on the assumption that the body/mind will learn more from variation compared to consistent training drills. Based on this, a change of frame could also contribute to a faster learning experience but of course this should all be exercised within a certain context. First of all I'm sure you need to be aware of the relation between different frames and playing style.  With that in mind you can start playing around with different frames, preferrably changing them during the trainingsession in order to learn by comparison. Considering the complexity, I assume this will only be usefull after a player has reached a certain level of play and understanding.
I have chosen to play&train with a certain type of frame, based on the playing style I want to master (e.g. a soft flexible frame during the time I want to improve my looping skills) and switch to another type of frame by the time I want to master a different technique.

This sounds like the EJs' charter.Big smile
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