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ERKE GERMAN OPEN 2008

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Topic: ERKE GERMAN OPEN 2008
Posted By: SoWhySoSerious
Subject: ERKE GERMAN OPEN 2008
Date Posted: 11/19/2008 at 7:11am
Anybody knows which TV program show matches from this Pro Tour?


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Don't lose yourself in table tennis, whatever it means to you.




Replies:
Posted By: varghesep
Date Posted: 11/20/2008 at 4:35pm
The ttlive.tv is telecasting the live score. Waldner blogging also. I can't see the video though.

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Posted By: TTNoobie
Date Posted: 11/21/2008 at 1:38am
yeah I can't seem to find vids either, but there is some "live blog"  that says it will start at friday 10 CET, so maybe that's the live feed?
http://go2008.ttlive.tv

Would love to see videos, so if anyone knows live feeds or could post some vids,  would appreciate itClap


Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 11/21/2008 at 10:59pm
Toriola destroyed Ovtcharov 4:2!! Go, Segun! ... he is on fire this year!

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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member

Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please...


Posted By: theman
Date Posted: 11/21/2008 at 11:37pm
thats frigging amazing, he upset saive in the olympics, almost beat oh sang eun, lets c what he can do in the spotlight

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i lost my racquet

Schlager u beast

http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy



Posted By: manluski
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 1:09am
that is very good news. after all this years, he finally got some sponsorship to play in the ittf protour. his ranking will improve. these are some of the obstacles and firewalls facing players from poor developing countries despite their talents.
this is good news for the sport. thanks jimT.

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manluski


Posted By: TTNoobie
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 6:48am
Crisan just beat Boll in 7 sets!


Posted By: naijachief
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 7:21am
Jiang Tianyi just beat Toriola 4-2. Unhappy

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who no know go know


Posted By: GorgeousGordy
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 7:43am
WHAT THE HELL?? Crisan just beat Boll 4.3 but now the website says walkover for Boll???????

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chiseling since the 1980s


Posted By: elcapitan_thfc
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 7:43am
Originally posted by TTNoobie TTNoobie wrote:

Crisan just beat Boll in 7 sets!
 
You're right...but it appears that Crisan's bat failed the test as the results say Boll received a 4-0 walkover!!!


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Stiga Ebenholz NCT V
Boost TX Forehand
Boost TC Backahnd


Posted By: liXiao
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 7:46am
^That is SO stupid. Boll shouldnt be let through since he lost. Stupid ittf. But now Timo must over come the might of YOSHIDA KAII!

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Gewo Aruna Hinoki Carbon
Gewo Nexxus EL Pro 53 SuperSelect
Yinhe Qing


Posted By: GorgeousGordy
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 7:46am
WOW that's crazy!!!! Do you know if it was the thickness test or the VOC test??
 
thanks for the info elcapitan Thumbs%20Up


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chiseling since the 1980s


Posted By: Mark 5
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 7:54am
Crisans rubbers where after the Match thicker than the allowed 4mm. Befor the match he passed the Test. It seems, that he has changed the racket betweeen test no. 1 and the match


Posted By: elcapitan_thfc
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 7:54am
Originally posted by liXiao liXiao wrote:

^That is SO stupid. Boll shouldnt be let through since he lost. Stupid ittf. But now Timo must over come the might of YOSHIDA KAII!
 
On the contrary, Crisan shouldn't be let through as his bat didn't meet the rules and he may have cheated...who knows?
The ITTF have the rules and Crisan is the one who has kept his side of the bargain.
I find it unbelievable that professional players cannot make sure their racket meets the requirements before they play....
 
As for Kai Yoshida, Boll can use his right hand and still win 4-0 :)
 
I heard its the thickness Gorgeous!


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Stiga Ebenholz NCT V
Boost TX Forehand
Boost TC Backahnd


Posted By: naijachief
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 7:57am
Crisan is known for funny stuff like that, even before the new restrictions were in effect. I remember his match against Patrick Baum at the U.S. Open earlier this year where he purposely destroyed his paddle in order to exchange it with a spare one. He was disqualified there also.

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who no know go know


Posted By: theman
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 8:00am
there was a video on butterflyonline, where crisan deliberately screwed his raquet so he can change to  a new one. patrick baum complained and crisan was disqualified, hes got bad sportsmanship.

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i lost my racquet

Schlager u beast

http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy



Posted By: Kalin
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 8:01am
It seems he changed his bat before the game began.

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Setup:

Blade:BTY Viscaria
FH:Andro Rasant (1,9 mm Blk)BH:Soulspin P12(1,8 mm Red)


Posted By: liXiao
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 8:29am
Hes a dumbass. He should have had it checked during so that way he could switch back.

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Gewo Aruna Hinoki Carbon
Gewo Nexxus EL Pro 53 SuperSelect
Yinhe Qing


Posted By: theman
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 8:32am
so TECHNICALLY, boll has yet to lose a set in this tournament?

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i lost my racquet

Schlager u beast

http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy



Posted By: naijachief
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 8:38am
technically....yes......lol. I wonder what blade and rubber Crisan uses.

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who no know go know


Posted By: elcapitan_thfc
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 9:04am
Originally posted by naijachief naijachief wrote:

technically....yes......lol. I wonder what blade and rubber Crisan uses.
 
Yeh...I wonder which Booster he is using as well


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Stiga Ebenholz NCT V
Boost TX Forehand
Boost TC Backahnd


Posted By: Jolan
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 9:37am
Originally posted by elcapitan_thfc elcapitan_thfc wrote:

Originally posted by naijachief naijachief wrote:

technically....yes......lol. I wonder what blade and rubber Crisan uses.
 
Yeh...I wonder which Booster he is using as well
 
Yes, I wonder too. What kind of booster enables the sponge to get thicker DURING the match ? His blade was controlled before and after and stayed in the game area, right ? Before was OK, after wasn't...Weird, isn't ?
 
Actually, what I find the weirdest is that Adrian Crisan was considered as a great champion and one of the most talented european player 12 weeks ago and now, he's just a cheater...THAT is weird !
 
The only good news is that Timo will win the German open and the sponsors will be happy, and the German fans too. I'm not sure Timo will enjoyed his victory as much as he should have...
 


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Joola Wyzaryz Freeze
Vega pro 2.0mm
Vega intro 2.0mm
Blade collection : https://photos.app.goo.gl/PrgCu5ib5RnhVXTn9" rel="nofollow - https://photos.app.goo.gl/PrgCu5ib5RnhVXTn9


Posted By: varghesep
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 9:44am
Originally posted by manluski manluski wrote:

that is very good news. after all this years, he finally got some sponsorship to play in the ittf protour. his ranking will improve. these are some of the obstacles and firewalls facing players from poor developing countries despite their talents.
this is good news for the sport. thanks jimT.
 
He is one of my favorite players. Next comes the West Indies cricket players.


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Posted By: crs2
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 10:17am
Originally posted by jcdi jcdi wrote:

[
Actually, what I find the weirdest is that Adrian Crisan was considered as a great champion and one of the most talented european player 12 weeks ago and now, he's just a cheater...THAT is weird !
 
 
Yes. Overnight all those who refused to accept the new rules (regarding boosters) became cheaters. This category includes the chinese. I would rather watch "cheaters" than pro players struggling to adjust to the ITTF whims.
 
BTW: CRISAN DID NOT CHANGE HIS RAQUET! IF he did, he has a bright career in magic ahead of him.


Posted By: mdjenders
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 10:21am
i'm not going to crucify the guy because there are more than a few players trying to boost their way through the difficult rule change, but crisan needs to stop cheating.  he didn't get away with it at the us open, but obviously he didn't learn his lesson.  it's sad, cause he is a fun player to watch and obviously really talented.


Posted By: crs2
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 10:25am
Originally posted by mdjenders mdjenders wrote:

i'm not going to crucify the guy because there are more than a few players trying to boost their way through the difficult rule change, but crisan needs to stop cheating.  he didn't get away with it at the us open, but obviously he didn't learn his lesson.  it's sad, cause he is a fun player to watch and obviously really talented.
 
How do you think he cheated?


Posted By: manluski
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 10:29am
that is kind of funny. if he was allowed to play that means his bat was checked before the match. then he played and won. then his bat was checked after the match. then it failed. that means he changed his bat during the game. any video evidence to prove this? how many players racket are checked after a match.
 
this is very funny. i think germany is trying to safe bolls ass. it is disgusting. think of the player who is the victim of this bs.
 
i do not think boll deserve this help to advance his career. period.


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manluski


Posted By: Kalin
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 10:34am
Adrian Crisan had taken his racket to the officials before the match started, the racket passed the test and then he used another racket for the match. After the match and the referee discovered that the racket covering was too thick. So according to me: or A) Crisan did take another bat
B) The referee did not messure the racket covering good enough ( it should never have passed the first test)


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Setup:

Blade:BTY Viscaria
FH:Andro Rasant (1,9 mm Blk)BH:Soulspin P12(1,8 mm Red)


Posted By: crs2
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 10:36am
His raquet was kept by the officials 2 hours before the match, then returned to him before the match and then tested again after. When did he exchange it? 3000 people watching, all on video. Magic.


Posted By: manluski
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 10:47am

hi kalin

who told you he changed his racket for the match. if the procedure is not without error. the procedure should be improved and not punish the player. as a scientist this happens all the time. and this is why procedures are being improved.

 

shame on germany and ittf. shame on timo boll. although timo boll is shameless.

the players union should rise up against ittf and germany decision. a boycott of the next german open will be a first step.



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manluski


Posted By: Marian023
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 10:49am
Originally posted by Kalin Kalin wrote:

Adrian Crisan had taken his racket to�the officials before the match started, the racket passed the test and then he used another racket for the match.

From where do you know he used another racket for the match? Do u saw him change it?
so..tolk when u have some prove!



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Blade: Tibhar Samsonov Alpha FL
--
Rubber:FH-Xiom Omega 2 euro version
BH-Xiom Omega 1 max euro ver
Glue: Xiom i-Bond


Posted By: Marian023
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 10:55am
a user from the other forum in romanian language spoken with Crisan and he say was the same rocket.

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Blade: Tibhar Samsonov Alpha FL
--
Rubber:FH-Xiom Omega 2 euro version
BH-Xiom Omega 1 max euro ver
Glue: Xiom i-Bond


Posted By: Marian023
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 11:11am
Originally posted by Kalin Kalin wrote:

Adrian Crisan had taken his racket to�the officials before the match started, the racket passed the test and then he used another racket for the match. After the match and�the referee�discovered that the racket covering was too thick. So according to me: or A) Crisan did take another bat
B) The referee did not messure the racket covering good enough ( it should never have passed the first test)


B) The referee did messure the racket on a day before too and told was OK when was a match in team event, Crisan told that to user on that forum when spoken with him.

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Blade: Tibhar Samsonov Alpha FL
--
Rubber:FH-Xiom Omega 2 euro version
BH-Xiom Omega 1 max euro ver
Glue: Xiom i-Bond


Posted By: Kalin
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 11:14am
http://www.ittf.com/_front_page/ittf_full_story1.asp?ID=16740&Competition_ID=1730 - http://www.ittf.com/_front_page/ittf_full_story1.asp?ID=16740&Competition_ID=1730 &
 
@ manluski : Timo Boll is not to blame here.


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Setup:

Blade:BTY Viscaria
FH:Andro Rasant (1,9 mm Blk)BH:Soulspin P12(1,8 mm Red)


Posted By: manluski
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 12:22pm

kalin

so, who is to blame? the official ?
this is german conspiracy, remember ocharov is out. so if timo is out no other german has any chance?
 
when has timos paddle been tested after winning a match?
 
i call for a players boycott of german competition. period. this is racism, favoritism or discrimination in sports. 


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manluski


Posted By: crs2
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 12:24pm
we're not blaming Boll, why would we? Officials measured the raquet before the match and said it was3.88mm. After the match it was over 4.


Posted By: le xex
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 1:05pm
here is the video of crisan clearly cheating at the US Open 2008 http://www.butterflyonline.com/2008/USOMSR164.asp


Posted By: Mark 5
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 1:17pm
Boll said in an interview at tischtennis.de (in german, link see below), that he knew before the match that Crisan would play with an illegal racket. Otherwise Crisan would not start into the match, without his standard racket. This was signaled to Boll by Crisan before the match. Here is the Link:
http://www.tischtennis.de/aktuelles/details.php?id=8095


Posted By: manluski
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 1:19pm
that is a stupid analogy!
 
is us open the same as german open? we did not ask for this video. we are not comparing oranges and apple.
 
where is the video for this german open 2008,


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manluski


Posted By: crs2
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 1:47pm

People close to Crisan said that his raquet was measured 4.04 and Boll's measured 4.02. Officials said that Boll's raquet was in the error margin. At 4.04 Crisan's was not. Unbelivable how biased those judges were.



Posted By: grubbafan
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 1:49pm
man, what makes he think that he can get away with cheating? First with Patrick Baum, and now this? When will he ever learn? Sigh!



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Blade : Butterfly Andrzej Grubba FL
FH : Butterfly Sriver
BH : Butterfly Sriver


Posted By: Ciprian
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 2:47pm
How much do you think 0.02 helped him to beat Boll?How much is the error margin?

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Xi Enting
FH-Aurus Sound
BH- Pryde 30


Posted By: grubbafan
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 2:51pm
If it doesn't help him much, why did he need to do it anyway? Doesn't it make him look silly on his part?



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Blade : Butterfly Andrzej Grubba FL
FH : Butterfly Sriver
BH : Butterfly Sriver


Posted By: Mark 5
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 2:59pm
It�s not about 0.02 (if this is an correct information). If the rubber ist tuned (and the enlargement of the rubber is an evidence for tuning!) it supports a complete different feeling an opportunities to play.


Posted By: Ciprian
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 3:08pm
You  probably are right ,but don't you think something is strange in this story?(From 3.88 to 4.04 ).Nobody saw when he changed the blade,if he really changed it?C'mon!

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Xi Enting
FH-Aurus Sound
BH- Pryde 30


Posted By: varghesep
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 3:09pm
Does anyone know what rubber Crisan was using?

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http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16429 - Feedback


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by crs2 crs2 wrote:

People close to Crisan said that his raquet was measured 4.04 and Boll's measured 4.02. Officials said that Boll's raquet was in the error margin. At 4.04 Crisan's was not. Unbelivable how biased those judges were.



Since you seem to have some info from Romania, perhaps you can help us make sense of the situation. So far it all seems very confusing! Was the 4.04 the result of the pre-match test or the post-match test?

Here's how things may have happened:
- Crisan's primary racket failed the pre-match test; he then submitted another paddle (apparently Cioti's?), which passed the test. This second racket was cleared for use in the match (and brought to the table by the umpire??).
- Crisan told Boll that he would rather default the match than play it with Cioti's racket
- Crisan then reglued his primary racket, took off the old glue layers to bring the thickness down. Did he then also have this racket retested, and it came out as 3.88mm?? But do the rules allow a player to reglue a racket that has failed a test?
- Somehow Crisan managed to play with his primary racket (the one he reglued) instead of the one that the umpires had initially approved (Cioti's apparently). Boll was aware of this but just went ahead and played the match anyway. But why was the switch not noticed by the umpire?
- After the match Crisan's racket (the one he used during the match) was tested and turned out to be illegal.

Some of the above is based on a statement on the Donic website:
http://donicext.dbap.de/index.php?id=24&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=103&tx_ttnews[backPid]=14&cHash=fb93b7037c
But what Crisan says seems to contradict the referees' version, so someone must be lying.

As for the US Open incident, it does show that earlier this year Crisan did try to circumvent the rules when he was unhappy with his equipment. That's certainly not something that speaks in his favor.

After the match Boll had already left the arena and was about to drive home when he got the phone call telling him about the disqualification.


Posted By: crs2
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 4:42pm

Boll said he knew about the fact that Crisan will play with an illegal raquet. How, I don't know. Crisan says he played with the raquet the umpire brought back. Raquet before match 3,88 after the match 4.04. He glued with a thin layer of legal glue before testing. Maybe that was the culprit. Since he glued before the first test, the sponge might have expanded 0.5 during the match. Who knows. But the fact that he may be innocent and we are discussing 0.5 mm changes in thickness instead of the match itself  is proof that things aren't going the right way.



Posted By: crs2
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

-
- Crisan told Boll that he would rather default the match than play it with Cioti's racket
 
Not likely.  Even if true, His raquet came back OK and he used it during the match.
 
 
Why on earth was Crisan's raquet tested again?
Have you ever heard of such thing? It is clear the officials either had something against Crisan or simply wouldn't let Boll lose. The later is a bit far fetched, I know.
Boll knew about the illegal raquet but he'd rather lose than denounce Crisan???? In the German Open??? Come on people.


Posted By: elcapitan_thfc
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by jcdi jcdi wrote:

Originally posted by elcapitan_thfc elcapitan_thfc wrote:

Originally posted by naijachief naijachief wrote:

technically....yes......lol. I wonder what blade and rubber Crisan uses.
 
Yeh...I wonder which Booster he is using as well
 
Yes, I wonder too. What kind of booster enables the sponge to get thicker DURING the match ? His blade was controlled before and after and stayed in the game area, right ? Before was OK, after wasn't...Weird, isn't ?
 
Actually, what I find the weirdest is that Adrian Crisan was considered as a great champion and one of the most talented european player 12 weeks ago and now, he's just a cheater...THAT is weird !
 
 
Well it doesn't make any difference to his talent he is til a great player but obviously not good enough that he can't win without breaking the rules and cheating.
As far as I am aware someone who cheats is indeed a cheater so that is what Crisan is if he used Booster!
 
It is annoying the way that everyone is blaming the ITTF, the rules have been layed down and are the same for everyone, and it has become clear that no-one other than Crisan is at fault - he is the one who has not complied to the rules. The ITTF have not changed them to screw him personally over.
 
In the report on ITTF it says he tested a racket and then brought a different one to the table which then failed the test post match.
 


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Stiga Ebenholz NCT V
Boost TX Forehand
Boost TC Backahnd


Posted By: crs2
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by elcapitan_thfc elcapitan_thfc wrote:

 
In the report on ITTF it says he tested a racket and then brought a different one to the table which then failed the test post match.
 
 
The report is wrong. By the way there are other opinions on this matter, read the news on the Donic site.


Posted By: TTNoobie
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 5:25pm
Is it normal procedure to test the racket after the match is completed

Is it clear that Crisan did not change his racket during play?  There should obviously be video proof if he did or not.

The ref allowed him to play with this racket.  It sure raises eyebrows when the golden boy of German tabletennis is eliminated in the German open.... hmmmmmmm


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 5:51pm
@crs2:
Could you be a bit more precise in relaying what you have heard? Please answer these questions:
- Crisan's personal racket first failed the pre-match test, right or wrong?
- Crisan submitted Cioti's racket as his second racket in the pre-match test, right or wrong?
- Was the 3.88mm the result of a second test done after Crisan reglued the rubbers on his personal racket? (That seems to be what he's saying on the Donic website.)
- How much time elapsed between the test and the match (you wrote "2 hours" but that seems way too long), and where was Crisan's personal racket during this time?
- When was Boll's racket tested as 4.02mm: before or after the match?
- Why is it "not likely" that Crisan told people (including Boll perhaps) that he would refuse to play if his personal racket is not approved? Carneros did the same thing yesterday, defaulting the match when he had to go to a backup paddle. Crisan basically did the same at the US Open.

There may have been some confusion among the umpires about which racket had passed the pre-match test, and when they noticed this they went ahead with the post-match test to make sure the racket actually used in the match was legal.


Posted By: Thot
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 5:53pm
I would really like to see this match and a psychically evidence (video), if there is one, of Crisan changing the blade.

Boll was using 4.02mm, Crisan - 4.04mm why they aren't both disqualified???
I agree with member_profile.asp?PF=16745&FID=14 - elcapitan_thfc here, the rules are everyone, including Boll. Big%20smile

Quote from http://www.ittf.com/ITTF_Hand_Book/2_Handbook.pdf

2.4.3 A side of the blade used for striking the ball shall be covered with either
ordinary pimpled rubber, with pimples outwards having a total thickness
including adhesive of not more than 2mm, or sandwich rubber, with pimples
inwards or outwards, having a total thickness including adhesive of not more
than 4mm.

I couldn't find anything related to an "error margin".


Posted By: Mark 5
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 6:07pm
Well, the Info of the values came only from crs2. Very vague infos i think!  There are no official values about the thickness of the rubbers of both players. So why speculate with such vague infos?
Fact is, that crisans racket was not compliant with the rules. And it was obviously not the first time, that crisan tryes to win with unsportsmanlike acting


Posted By: Kalin
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 6:18pm
I think if Boll would have played with a racket covering which was too thick, he also would have been disqualified. One has to assume that a  referee is impartial @ crs2 Do you have inside information regarding the thickness of the sponge of Timo Boll blade?

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Setup:

Blade:BTY Viscaria
FH:Andro Rasant (1,9 mm Blk)BH:Soulspin P12(1,8 mm Red)


Posted By: liXiao
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 6:20pm
Chuang Chih Yuan FTW.

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Gewo Aruna Hinoki Carbon
Gewo Nexxus EL Pro 53 SuperSelect
Yinhe Qing


Posted By: Cyrilix
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 6:45pm
I, for one, would like to see some real evidence and clarification from either side. It seems like that's seriously missing (or we just don't know about it) in this matter. This wouldn't be so controversial if it weren't for the fact that Boll lost, and now he gets a free ride. Also, I'm not sure if the ittf linked news article is any proof. It doesn't seem to be written in a very clear and serious manner. Rather, it seems to be written like any blog would be written (as with most ittf articles), with claims but no substance.


Posted By: 77g33k
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 10:55pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:


...

Since you seem to have some info from Romania, perhaps you can help us make sense of the situation. So far it all seems very confusing! Was the 4.04 the result of the pre-match test or the post-match test?

Here's how things may have happened:
- Crisan's primary racket failed the pre-match test; he then submitted another paddle (apparently Cioti's?), which passed the test. This second racket was cleared for use in the match (and brought to the table by the umpire??).
- Crisan told Boll that he would rather default the match than play it with Cioti's racket
- Crisan then reglued his primary racket, took off the old glue layers to bring the thickness down. Did he then also have this racket retested, and it came out as 3.88mm?? But do the rules allow a player to reglue a racket that has failed a test?
- Somehow Crisan managed to play with his primary racket (the one he reglued) instead of the one that the umpires had initially approved (Cioti's apparently). Boll was aware of this but just went ahead and played the match anyway. But why was the switch not noticed by the umpire?
- After the match Crisan's racket (the one he used during the match) was tested and turned out to be illegal.


...



This chain of event could never happen. There are so many parts in the chain that is very unlikely to happen and could have been easily verified if it occurred but none came to light so far.


-------------
Messing opponents with their own spins.
----------------------------------------------------
Main:
Sunflex Pro
Rubbers:Focus III/Nitakku Express

Back-up:
Globe Whirlwind
Rubbers:Palio CJ8000/DHS 652


Posted By: varghesep
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 11:05pm
These guys keep many paddles in their bag. I have seen they can't organize well between matches - they just run between buildings to buildings and table to tables. They rush and sometimes comes late to the table. It may be one of those cases where the player has picked up a wrong paddle in a hurry.
 
What happened at the US Open is not something acceptable.


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http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16429 - Feedback


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 11/22/2008 at 11:45pm
Originally posted by 77g33k 77g33k wrote:



This chain of event could never happen. There are so many parts in the chain that is very unlikely to happen and could have been easily verified if it occurred but none came to light so far.


I didn't make any of these "parts" up - it is all based on various statements that appeared today on www.tischtennis.de, www.ittf.com/de.ittf.com, and the Donic website. What's confusing is that there is some contradiction between the various sources.


Posted By: sprite
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 12:02am
Originally posted by Cyrilix Cyrilix wrote:


I, for one, would like to see some real evidence and clarification from either side. It seems like that's seriously missing (or we just don't know about it) in this matter. This wouldn't be so controversial if it weren't for the fact that Boll lost, and now he gets a free ride. Also, I'm not sure if the ittf linked news article is any proof. It doesn't seem to be written in a very clear and serious manner. Rather, it seems to be written like any blog would be written (as with most ittf articles), with claims but no substance.


There is only one side, the officials' side.
Should the guy who used an illegal racket advance? Should no one advance?
Then what is controversial?



-------------
YEO

Boost TP


Posted By: varghesep
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 12:23am
Originally posted by sprite sprite wrote:



There is only one side, the officials' side.
Should the guy who used an illegal racket advance? Should no one advance?
Then what is controversial?

 
And they don't have to show any evidence to the outside world.
 
Timo gets $50,000 Thumbs%20Up.


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http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16429 - Feedback


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 1:42am
So far he only got $5,000... if he wins the title he'll get $20,000.


Posted By: Cyrilix
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 1:53am
Originally posted by sprite sprite wrote:

There is only one side, the officials' side.
Should the guy who used an illegal racket advance? Should no one advance?
Then what is controversial?


What I'm saying is, we have to be very clear on what has happened, and I think spectators deserve to know. At least, there should be an official statement somewhere, since this is no small thing. If the official statement exists, and this matter has been well looked into, and we have a definite answer (which all of this confusion is not leading me to believing <-- key point), then the decision is clear:

-if the circumstances were indeed Crisan's fault, then Boll advances
-if not, Crisan advances

So, given all of this, could we please get the official word? (hah, like any official would bother to read this forum)

Also, what is controversial is...

-we're deciding which one of the two gets through, if the loser used an illegal racket, no one would care
-it's Boll we're talking about, whether or not he gets past will have a significant effect on the final outcome of the German Open


Posted By: Mark 5
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 4:22am
Here is something official:

"Regarding the �CRISAN case� referees board gives the information: "Adrian CRISAN did use a different racket for his individual match (22.11.08, 11.30) than the one officially tested according to the procedures for racket control. Therefore a racket control after the match has been requested. The result of the racket control after the match has shown, that the thickness of both sides (red and black) is more than 4 mm. As prescribed in the general information, Adrian CRISAN has been disqualified for the individual tournament.""


http://www.ettu.org/news_view.php?id=943 - http://www.ettu.org/news_view.php?id=943


Posted By: SoWhySoSerious
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 4:27am
In the other side...here is some highlights from ERKE GERMAN OPEN:
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=_g0Z8VZfbR0
Timo Boll-Yoshida Kaii
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=gGE36i_bx-Q
Nikoleta Stefanova-Tamara Boros



-------------
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Don't lose yourself in table tennis, whatever it means to you.



Posted By: crs2
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 4:35am
Originally posted by Mark 5 Mark 5 wrote:

Well, the Info of the values came only from crs2. Very vague infos i think! 
 
The info came from Crisan and his manager.


Posted By: 77g33k
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 4:40am
I have read the ERKE German Open articles at the ITTF website and it seems so amateurish. Can't the ITTF hire a somewhat better writer with a journalism/mass comm. degree or if not trained on news writing.? The articles writer doesn't seem to know the difference between news writing which stating a fact and an opinion piece wherein you would offer your own views upon a newsworthy item.


-------------
Messing opponents with their own spins.
----------------------------------------------------
Main:
Sunflex Pro
Rubbers:Focus III/Nitakku Express

Back-up:
Globe Whirlwind
Rubbers:Palio CJ8000/DHS 652


Posted By: Mark 5
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 4:46am
Even if the information came from crisan and his manager (what i have to question), it is not really a neutral information.


Posted By: elcapitan_thfc
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 4:46am
Originally posted by crs2 crs2 wrote:

Originally posted by Mark 5 Mark 5 wrote:

Well, the Info of the values came only from crs2. Very vague infos i think! 
 
The info came from Crisan and his manager.
 
I for one would believe the official statements who for the record are impartial (It is a pro tour event - so they are not German they must be of impartial nationality and the tournament is run by the ITTF), rather than the biased account of the 'guilty' party.
 
If Crisan thought their decision was unfair or that Boll's racket was also illegal we would hear a lot more about it.........


-------------
Stiga Ebenholz NCT V
Boost TX Forehand
Boost TC Backahnd


Posted By: crs2
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 4:46am
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

@crs2:
Could you be a bit more precise in relaying what you have heard? Please answer these questions:
- Crisan's personal racket first failed the pre-match test, right or wrong?
I don't know.

- Crisan submitted Cioti's racket as his second racket in the pre-match test, right or wrong?
 
Yes. After that, 2 hrs before the match he gave the referees HIS OWN raquet for testing and it came back OK, 3.88mm.

- Was the 3.88mm the result of a second test done after Crisan reglued the rubbers on his personal racket? (That seems to be what he's saying on the Donic website.)
 
Yes. That is correct, this test was done also before the start of the match.

- How much time elapsed between the test and the match (you wrote "2 hours" but that seems way too long), and where was Crisan's personal racket during this time?
 
Crisan gave the referees his raquet for testing at 9 AM, the match started at 11:30. He got back his raquet at the table.

- When was Boll's racket tested as 4.02mm: before or after the match?
I don't know, it could have been tested after, toghether with Crisan's.

- Why is it "not likely" that Crisan told people (including Boll perhaps) that he would refuse to play if his personal racket is not approved? Carneros did the same thing yesterday, defaulting the match when he had to go to a backup paddle. Crisan basically did the same at the US Open.
 
Crisan has said that he won't play the match with Cioti's raquet. He would have played one point and then gave up the match. But that wasn't the case since his raquet was OK. This is what Boll heard and assumed that Crisan was going to use an illegal raquet.

There may have been some confusion among the umpires about which racket had passed the pre-match test, and when they noticed this they went ahead with the post-match test to make sure the racket actually used in the match was legal.
 
I don't know. Usually, after the first test the raquet is marked but I don't know if Crisan's was. That is how the testers ensure the players don't change raquets.


Posted By: crs2
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 4:52am
Originally posted by elcapitan_thfc elcapitan_thfc wrote:

 
I for one would believe the official statements who for the record are impartial (It is a pro tour event - so they are not German they must be of impartial nationality and the tournament is run by the ITTF), rather than the biased account of the 'guilty' party.
 
If Crisan thought their decision was unfair or that Boll's racket was also illegal we would hear a lot more about it.........
 
Not as impartial as you would think. But it is easier to accept whatever officials feed you than trying to find out what happened.  Maybe we will hear something about this.


Posted By: elcapitan_thfc
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 4:56am
Originally posted by crs2 crs2 wrote:

Originally posted by elcapitan_thfc elcapitan_thfc wrote:

 
I for one would believe the official statements who for the record are impartial (It is a pro tour event - so they are not German they must be of impartial nationality and the tournament is run by the ITTF), rather than the biased account of the 'guilty' party.
 
If Crisan thought their decision was unfair or that Boll's racket was also illegal we would hear a lot more about it.........
 
Not as impartial as you would think. But it is easier to accept whatever officials feed you than trying to find out what happened.  Maybe we will hear something about this.
 
Still 10 times more impartial than Crisan :) There is no way he is going to come out and say "Yes I cheated". So for now the official report is exactly that - an official report.
 
I hope all sides involved produce statements and we find out the reaL truth of the matter as this is a massive issue following the glue
bans of September!


-------------
Stiga Ebenholz NCT V
Boost TX Forehand
Boost TC Backahnd


Posted By: 77g33k
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 5:05am
Can't they test the racket right beside the playing table?

Is it really that difficult to test players racket? I have read somewhere(one of TT forums) that it would take around 5 to 10 minutes(VOC tests, thickness tests, uniformity tests).


-------------
Messing opponents with their own spins.
----------------------------------------------------
Main:
Sunflex Pro
Rubbers:Focus III/Nitakku Express

Back-up:
Globe Whirlwind
Rubbers:Palio CJ8000/DHS 652


Posted By: crs2
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 5:14am
Originally posted by elcapitan_thfc elcapitan_thfc wrote:

Originally posted by crs2 crs2 wrote:

Originally posted by elcapitan_thfc elcapitan_thfc wrote:

 
I for one would believe the official statements who for the record are impartial (It is a pro tour event - so they are not German they must be of impartial nationality and the tournament is run by the ITTF), rather than the biased account of the 'guilty' party.
 
If Crisan thought their decision was unfair or that Boll's racket was also illegal we would hear a lot more about it.........
 
Not as impartial as you would think. But it is easier to accept whatever officials feed you than trying to find out what happened.  Maybe we will hear something about this.
 
Still 10 times more impartial than Crisan :) There is no way he is going to come out and say "Yes I cheated". So for now the official report is exactly that - an official report.
 
I hope all sides involved produce statements and we find out the reaL truth of the matter as this is a massive issue following the glue
bans of September!
 
I agree 100%! There has to be a chemical test to show if boosters were used.


Posted By: theman
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 7:50am
CHUAN! DONT CHOKE!

-------------
i lost my racquet

Schlager u beast

http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy



Posted By: sprite
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 7:58am
Originally posted by Cyrilix Cyrilix wrote:





What I'm saying is, we have to be very clear on what has happened, and I think spectators deserve to know. At least, there should be an official statement somewhere, since this is no small thing. If the official statement exists, and this matter has been well looked into, and we have a definite answer (which all of this confusion is not leading me to believing <-- key point), then the decision is clear:-if the circumstances were indeed Crisan's fault, then Boll advances-if not, Crisan advancesSo, given all of this, could we please get the official word? (hah, like any official would bother to read this forum)Also, what is controversial is...-we're deciding which one of the two gets through, if the loser used an illegal racket, no one would care-it's Boll we're talking about, whether or not he gets past will have a significant effect on the final outcome of the German Open[/QUOTE]

It is official, the matter is as well looked into as is required for a decision to be made by tournament officials, it's Crisan's fault and Boll advances. Only the officials need to be very clear about what has happened

As far as the people involved go, the only controversy is that players are still using illegal rackets or the officials are incompetent, either way Boll advances. The tournament outcome is thus affected, Crisan has no chance to win, Boll does.

Nothing said on this forum bears any weight, the course has been set. The official word will come in due time, no amount of speculation on some forum will alter that.
The only thing that could be considered controversial on the forum is that people are speculating about what may have happened, without really knowing. Nothing really controversial there, it is what many people like to do.



-------------
YEO

Boost TP


Posted By: F.Z.
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 10:32am
do we have any video's?

-------------
BTY Timo Boll Spirit ST
FH: tenergy 05 2.1(B)
BH: tenergy 64 2.1 (R)


Posted By: Cyrilix
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 11:01am
Originally posted by sprite sprite wrote:

It is official, the matter is as well looked into as is required for a decision to be made by tournament officials, it's Crisan's fault and Boll advances. Only the officials need to be very clear about what has happened


Practically, I'll have to agree with that.

Quote As far as the people involved go, the only controversy is that players are still using illegal rackets or the officials are incompetent, either way Boll advances. The tournament outcome is thus affected, Crisan has no chance to win, Boll does.

Nothing said on this forum bears any weight, the course has been set. The official word will come in due time, no amount of speculation on some forum will alter that.
The only thing that could be considered controversial on the forum is that people are speculating about what may have happened, without really knowing. Nothing really controversial there, it is what many people like to do.


I don't know why you choose to keep on arguing semantics with me. Controversy is proportional to the amount of discussion generated. As such, there is forum controversy. It does not have to be a global crisis. Also, what I mean is, if it were two not well known players in the round of 64, people probably wouldn't give two sh*ts. Sure, there is the controversy of illegal rackets, but this only becomes a controversial issue when compounded with other things. Think about it... who do you think hears of that when player A at local league is disqualified after playing player B? Regardless of what you consider a controversy, this thread is the proof.


Posted By: Cyrilix
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 11:05am
Originally posted by Mark 5 Mark 5 wrote:

Here is something official:

"Regarding the �CRISAN case� referees board gives the information: "Adrian CRISAN did use a different racket for his individual match (22.11.08, 11.30) than the one officially tested according to the procedures for racket control. Therefore a racket control after the match has been requested. The result of the racket control after the match has shown, that the thickness of both sides (red and black) is more than 4 mm. As prescribed in the general information, Adrian CRISAN has been disqualified for the individual tournament.""


http://www.ettu.org/news_view.php?id=943 - http://www.ettu.org/news_view.php?id=943


I think we have a winner here, guys!

Quote I have read the ERKE German Open articles at the ITTF website and it seems so amateurish. Can't the ITTF hire a somewhat better writer with a journalism/mass comm. degree or if not trained on news writing.? The articles writer doesn't seem to know the difference between news writing which stating a fact and an opinion piece wherein you would offer your own views upon a newsworthy item.


Totally agree. I sort of like their sensationalist style for certain things, but this situation is different.


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 11:41am
There is a new article explaining that there was a "misunderstanding" between Crisan and the umpires before the match:
http://www.tischtennis.de/aktuelles/details.php?id=8105

It goes like this:
- 30 minutes before the match, Crisan and Boll had their paddles tested by the ITTF racket control (a Japanese official)
- Crisan's paddle failed the thickness test (more than 4mm on both sides); he didn't have a backup and submitted Cioti's instead
- Cioti's paddle passed the test and was cleared for the match
- Crisan and his coach hinted that he would rather default the match than play with Cioti's paddle (which has different rubbers and blade)
- here comes the "misunderstanding": before the match Crisan was handed his own paddle (and not Cioti's) and told that it was ok for the match after all; but this should actually have applied to Cioti's paddle; Crisan took his own paddle and returned Cioti's
- at the same time the umpires indicated that there would be an official post-match test.

Note that this is not an official statement but the reconstruction by the press people from the German federation (not totally impartial, that is). They caution that it may be impossible to understand exactly the course of events that led to this "misunderstanding"... In any case, it does seem that the racket controllers/umpires are also to blame and that maybe Crisan wasn't knowingly "cheating" by surreptitiously using an illegal paddle. On the other hand, the fact remains that the racket he played with failed the post-match test, which in the end is the only thing that really matters (especially since Crisan had no backup to play with anyway).

Anything new on the Romanian forum today? (I mean facts or statements, not conspiracy theories...)



Posted By: Marian023
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 2:09pm
That user who tolk with Crisan say: Crisan after clean his blade and reglued, he give to umpires and they say is OK with Crisan was his coach and manager from his Ochsenhausen team, the chief from donic and others and umpire give the blade at the table when they start the game.
Was more players at this tournamet where umpires don't let to play if the balde was not OK before the game , but no one after the game... w.o.

-------------
Blade: Tibhar Samsonov Alpha FL
--
Rubber:FH-Xiom Omega 2 euro version
BH-Xiom Omega 1 max euro ver
Glue: Xiom i-Bond


Posted By: sprite
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by Cyrilix Cyrilix wrote:


I don't know why you choose to keep on arguing semantics with me. Controversy is proportional to the amount of discussion generated. As such, there is forum controversy.
 
Sorry my communication is so poor, I didn't really mean to argue semantics.
 
 


Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 3:16pm
I dont get it....at this level......the players should be 100% responsible for having a back up in case of problems.  Its his own fault.  Seems that a player would automatically check the blade for thickness after any glueing.  If he uses max thinkness...this should be a worry all the time about passing the max thickness test. 
 
 


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Posted By: GorgeousGordy
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 5:58pm
Boll "won" it but in my opinion lost..

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chiseling since the 1980s


Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 6:44pm
Thanks to these new set of rules table tennis has now become a joke sport.
A real fiasco.
The real laughs will come with the 44 ball and the 8 inch net.
Petermoo


Posted By: manluski
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 7:03pm

germany and the judge/officials must be made to pay for this unforgivable act. this is a devious act of injustice and must not go unpunished.

for one ittf should immediately ban these officials for life from being involved in any ittf events and competition.

two, germany must be made to pay at least ten times the value of the prize money money for the competition. a ban on all german made tt equipment will be a first start in addition to future german open tt competition.



-------------
manluski


Posted By: Andy Kante
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 7:07pm
Thx SoWhySoSerious for your YouTube Videos!


Posted By: mcd0nald
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 7:37pm
+1
 
Originally posted by GorgeousGordy GorgeousGordy wrote:

Boll "won" it but in my opinion lost..


-------------
Timo Boll Spirit
FH: NEO H3 Prov 38 degree (BLACK)
BH: XIOM Vega Asia (RED)


Posted By: SoWhySoSerious
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 7:48pm
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=RwAqiSVsT6s
Timo Boll-Chuan Chih Yuan Final
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=BFjhmSqRtaY
Timo Boll-Cheung Yuk
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=_g0Z8VZfbR0
Timo Boll-Yoshida Kaii
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=gGE36i_bx-Q
Nikoleta Stefanova-Tamara Boros




-------------
http://www.youtube.com/ttCountenance" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/ttCountenance

Don't lose yourself in table tennis, whatever it means to you.



Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 9:39pm
The Donic website now has what seems to be the fullest account of the "misunderstanding", and it's all starting to make sense:
http://donicext.dbap.de

- Crisan's paddle failed the pre-match test because the rubber thickness exceeded 4mm
- he did not have a second paddle at hand and submitted Cioti's paddle as a backup, which passed the test
- he and his coach indicated (to Boll and others) that he would rather default the match than play with Cioti's paddle (different rubber/blades/sponsor)
- the tournament director Rainer Kruschel became nervous, took Crisan's paddle, and went (along with assistant referee Carlos Zapata) to the racket control room to check whether Crisan's paddle had indeed failed the test. They asked the official in charge of racket control (Nobuyiki Shirakawa, member of the ITTF's equipment committee) for the test report for Crisan's paddle. Shirakawa showed them mistakenly the test report for Cioti's paddle, which had passed the test. Kruschel asked whether that was indeed the test report for Crisan's paddle, which they had taken with them to the room; Shirakawa said yes. Kruschel then went back to Crisan and told him his paddle was legal.

Quote from DONIC: "Undoubtedly Adrian Crisan played with an illegal paddle, and considering this his disqualification is justified. But he acted in good faith and did not knowingly do anything forbidden. ... There was definitely no sleight-of-hand by which he switched paddles, as the umpires and ITTF had suggested. Only a chain of unfortunate events, at the end of which there were only many losers."

[By the way, manluski, DONIC is a German company...]


Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by SoWhySoSerious SoWhySoSerious wrote:

http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=RwAqiSVsT6s
Timo Boll-Chuan Chih Yuan Final
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=BFjhmSqRtaY
Timo Boll-Cheung Yuk
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=_g0Z8VZfbR0
Timo Boll-Yoshida Kaii
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=gGE36i_bx-Q
Nikoleta Stefanova-Tamara Boros



If you have real videos - AVI, MPEG, MP4 or ASF files, could you please (please!) upload them somewhere accessible - like megaupload.com ? That is really easy and we will be eternally grateful!

Thank you very much!


-------------
Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member

Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please...


Posted By: manluski
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 9:47pm
donic, addidas, joola,  etc are all part of the german conspiracy and should be boycotted. no more addidas shoes for me.
 
when timo wins all this tourments, the players he defeated are less perfect. was timo bolls paddle checked.
 
i hope nazism is not reemerging in tt. 150,000usd x10 = 1.5million usd, or x20 = 3.0million usd and x100 = 15million usd.
 
germany will pay for this. no way out.


-------------
manluski


Posted By: varghesep
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by manluski manluski wrote:

donic, addidas, joola,  etc are all part of the german conspiracy and should be boycotted. no more addidas shoes for me.
 
when timo wins all this tourments, the players he defeated are less perfect. was timo bolls paddle checked.
 
i hope nazism is not reemerging in tt. 150,000usd x10 = 1.5million usd, or x20 = 3.0million usd and x100 = 15million usd.
 
germany will pay for this. no way out.
 
You're on fire Pinch.


-------------
http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16429 - Feedback


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 10:02pm
Originally posted by varghesep varghesep wrote:

 
You're on fire Pinch.


I think he's on something else...

The "conspiracy" obviously includes Japan (racket control official), so no more Asics, Nittaku, Butterfly... Also Spain (Zapata), Canada (Sharara), all those in favor of the booster ban, everyone will have to "pay"! manluski, what's your account number?






Posted By: TTNoobie
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

The Donic website now has what seems to be the fullest account of the "misunderstanding", and it's all starting to make sense:
http://donicext.dbap.de

- Crisan's paddle failed the pre-match test because the rubber thickness exceeded 4mm
- he did not have a second paddle at hand and submitted Cioti's paddle as a backup, which passed the test
- he and his coach indicated (to Boll and others) that he would rather default the match than play with Cioti's paddle (different rubber/blades/sponsor)
- the tournament director Rainer Kruschel became nervous, took Crisan's paddle, and went (along with assistant referee Carlos Zapata) to the racket control room to check whether Crisan's paddle had indeed failed the test. They asked the official in charge of racket control (Nobuyiki Shirakawa, member of the ITTF's equipment committee) for the test report for Crisan's paddle. Shirakawa showed them mistakenly the test report for Cioti's paddle, which had passed the test. Kruschel asked whether that was indeed the test report for Crisan's paddle, which they had taken with them to the room; Shirakawa said yes. Kruschel then went back to Crisan and told him his paddle was legal.

Quote from DONIC: "Undoubtedly Adrian Crisan played with an illegal paddle, and considering this his disqualification is justified. But he acted in good faith and did not knowingly do anything forbidden. ... There was definitely no sleight-of-hand by which he switched paddles, as the umpires and ITTF had suggested. Only a chain of unfortunate events, at the end of which there were only many losers."

[By the way, manluski, DONIC is a German company...]


So the key event was the "miscommunication" between the tournament director, Kruschel and the Japanese official, Shirakawa.   That's pretty lame and it got their golden boy to the finals, and eventual title.  I would not be surprised if the "miscommunication" was deliberate.  I remember reading someone mention  that Crisan always gave Boll trouble.  Either way Crisan was screwed!


Posted By: amateur
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 10:20pm
Originally posted by TTNoobie TTNoobie wrote:


So the key event was the "miscommunication" between the tournament director, Kruschel and the Japanese official, Shirakawa.   That's pretty lame and it got their golden boy to the finals, and eventual title.  I would not be surprised if the "miscommunication" was deliberate.  I remember reading someone mention  that Crisan always gave Boll trouble.  Either way Crisan was screwed!


No, regardless of the "miscommunication" Boll would have made it to the next round:
- Crisan's paddle was illegal, both in the pre-match test and in the post-match test
- Crisan did not have a backup paddle and would have had to play with Cioti's paddle: he would have either defaulted, or (probably) lost easily.
This was Crisan's fault and not anyone else's: he did not have a legal paddle to play with, period.

The "miscommunication" only had one consequence, namely that Crisan was allowed to play with his own paddle instead of Cioti's. Boll did not obtain any advantage from the situation.

There is only one scenario in which Crisan would have advanced: if the referee had decided not to have a post-match test because they had told  Crisan before the match that his paddle was legal.


Posted By: varghesep
Date Posted: 11/23/2008 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by TTNoobie TTNoobie wrote:



So the key event was the "miscommunication" between the tournament director, Kruschel and the Japanese official, Shirakawa.   That's pretty lame and it got their golden boy to the finals, and eventual title.  I would not be surprised if the "miscommunication" was deliberate.  I remember reading someone mention  that Crisan always gave Boll trouble.  Either way Crisan was screwed!
 
What's the language they use to communicate there? German, Japanese or something else?


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Posted By: TTNoobie
Date Posted: 11/24/2008 at 12:04am
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by TTNoobie TTNoobie wrote:


So the key event was the "miscommunication" between the tournament director, Kruschel and the Japanese official, Shirakawa.   That's pretty lame and it got their golden boy to the finals, and eventual title.  I would not be surprised if the "miscommunication" was deliberate.  I remember reading someone mention  that Crisan always gave Boll trouble.  Either way Crisan was screwed!


No, regardless of the "miscommunication" Boll would have made it to the next round:
- Crisan's paddle was illegal, both in the pre-match test and in the post-match test
- Crisan did not have a backup paddle and would have had to play with Cioti's paddle: he would have either defaulted, or (probably) lost easily.
This was Crisan's fault and not anyone else's: he did not have a legal paddle to play with, period.

The "miscommunication" only had one consequence, namely that Crisan was allowed to play with his own paddle instead of Cioti's. Boll did not obtain any advantage from the situation.

There is only one scenario in which Crisan would have advanced: if the referee had decided not to have a post-match test because they had told  Crisan before the match that his paddle was legal.


Did Crisan use the same paddle throughout the tournament?  If so why did they not call it illegal during his earlier matches and disqualify him?  A pass in the early stages is perfectly acceptable, but later in the rounds and involving the German golden boy in the German Open, seems a bit fishy to me.    Unless of course Crisan pulled out his "special" paddle to face Boll Tongue




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