Tenergy 64 - The experts review
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Topic: Tenergy 64 - The experts review
Posted By: petermoo
Subject: Tenergy 64 - The experts review
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 12:31am
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So we have been reading all the multiple reviews of Butterfly's Tenergy series in all the forums and we have heard about T64 which is supposed to be the drivers rubber and the fastest of the series yaddah yaddah yaah yaah. So we combed the far corners of the earth for a couple of sheets of the holy grail of TT , from Iru to Dandoy to Teesports in the Uk to Megaspin to Butterfly USA. Everywhere we searched, the answer was the same "No T64 available, maybe next month maybe next month" Whoever are the owners of Butterfly in Japan they must be rolling in the dollars and thanking thier lucky stars they were able to get speedglue banned. The demand for this stuff is amazing, where can I buy some of that Tamasu stock again? So finally I got my sheets from Butterfly USA and I cut the somewhat lighter than T05 sheet to my trusted Gergely blade. The sheet with 2.1 sponge looked somewhat a little thinner than 4mm total and it definitley made my setup overall lighter than before. The topsheet feels softer than T05 whcih is probably because the pips seem a little wider apart altough bigger. So today I took out the holy grail for a twirl and heres what I found. My loops were like with T05 very spinny, the throw is a little lower than the exaggerated high arcing Timo boll loops T05 produced for me but still were too high. The dwell time is still too pronounced, just like T05 the ball seems to stick in the sponge and then shoot out. My practice partner told me my loops were spinny but much slower than usual. My back was beginning to hurt tring to produce my usually more penetrating drives while the guy blocking to me looked bored dealing with my lolipop loops. The rubber produced a real nice glue sound all the time which I liked but seriously I was dissapointed with the lack of penetration. I noticed a serious non linearness to the T64's performance, sometimes when I backed off and counterlooped I would produce a frighteningly powerful drive which seemed out of proportion to the modest swing I made and at other times I would underhit. I think this sponge is just too soft and springy to control reliably. T64 produced real nice spinny serves. i got good bite on my backspins but I could not make put away drives because of the high throw. I had the same problem with T05 and I was hoping the T64 would be more of a power rubber but really it is not. Blocking for me was even worse. It was way too springy to control, I was blocking off everything that was spun hard. And then, I tore it off. Sorry to dissapoint, but to me this Tenergy 64 is a bunch of steaming crap. Butterfly you can go ahead and enjoy my $100, congratulations on a brilliant marketing strategy and best wishes to the poor EJ's who will continue to line up for and try all the Tenergys yet to come from T29, T88 and the best Tenergy of all T77. I think this rubber will best be enjoyed by beginners and intermediate players , maybe females, but I dont think many advanced male players will like it. Petermoo |
Replies:
Posted By: le xex
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 1:01am
nice ploy to stop ppl from buying off all the t64's 
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Posted By: rossicarbon
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 1:02am
| too fast !!! very hard to control...... |
Posted By: kenneyy88
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 1:07am
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reminds me of that brian pace said about the rubber.
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24640&PID=292910#292910 - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24640&PID=292910#292910 |
Posted By: pokerpete
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 1:18am
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i know more ppl disappointed by 05 and 64, then ppl who liked it, myself included i think 05 may have been designed around timo's game....so if you dont play like him or close to his level.....forget it ------------- Blade:Stiga Sense 7.6/ Timo ZLC FH: Tenergy 05FX BH: Tibhar Q5 Sound |
Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 1:48am
I didnt see this before. I consider Brian Pace an expert on Butterfly rubbers. Petermoo |
kenneyy88 wrote:Posted By: metalone
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 2:03am
Maybe you two mis-understood that Brian liked T05 and T64, but not T25. ------------- Gave up listing, too many changes. Blade - Yes BH - Rubber Red FH - Rubber Black |
Posted By: kenneyy88
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 2:13am
Yea nice catch, too many "tenergy plus random numbers for me" :\ |
Posted By: scottymang
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 5:19am
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I don't know what blade you used it on.On a normal all or off blade there is a nice arc coming from the T64 but on faster blades the this arc is almost gone.So I think 05 is for the faster blades.
But if your not really able to control the rubber did you ever use speedglue before?petermoo.
------------- Timo Boll ALC + 2x Rakza7 max = Scottymang |
Posted By: lilactime031
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 7:38am
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petermoo
the review is good but i don't find Tenergy so bad .
If you read other topics you'll sea that i allways say that Boost TC is better rubber than any Tenergy but i think you must compare Tenergy products with rubbers as Nimbus, Roxon, Pryde and others.
If you compare Tenergy with the made in German Tensors (and even Yasaka and Nittaku produce their new technology rubber in Germany) then the distance is giant in terms of playing characteristics and durability.
I agree that Bty products are often overrated, due to the fact Bty pays big money for contracts of too many players and coaches. But because of this Bty can have these high prices and so big popularity. ------------- e-pingpongshop |
Posted By: stoic
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 8:10am
Exactly, I'm not sure what you're comparing 64 too, but your review is the complete opposite to my experience. T64 is one of the fastest speed glue effect rubbers, the only thing faster being speed glued rubbers!
I would suggest that your technique needs adjusting to take advantage of this rubber.
------------- http://www.static-sounds.com - http://www.static-sounds.com Check out our tunes! |
Posted By: Stavros
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 10:22am
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I use T64 for one month. I agree with Petermoo about the non-linearity to the T64's performance. I experience this non-linearity especially during passive strokes. ------------- InfinityVPS - D80 - D05 |
Posted By: LOOPMEISTER
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 11:09am
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Decent review until the end when you started going overboard with the steaming crap stuff. Ok, so you don't like high throw rubbers! Point made. Its no secret all the tenergy's have high throw compared to other rubbers. Use Bryce Speed or another brand if you want more speed. Forum user Speedy can probably suggest some really fast rubbers for driving the ball with speed and the control of a lower throw than tenergy. |
Posted By: Recanter
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 11:22am
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Petermoo.
I felt the same about Ten64 when I first started, but all it really needs is an adjustment of the blade angle. Once you understand which blade angle produces the right arc, its fine. Do an exercise like this: Let the ball bounce once on the table and loop it off the table to hit the far wall on the full. This will give you an idea of the top spin/arc trajectory "at your maximum power"! Keep doing this until you feel you can predict the curve. Now try again, this time looping onto the table. I hope it helps. Give it another go, too expensive a rubber to waste hehe ------------- Timo Boll ALC ST FH: BTY Tenergy 64 2.1 BH: BTY EJ Max |
Posted By: Tinykin_2
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 11:49am
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The most common thing I hear from players who use Tenergy is that, 'It takes time to get used to' In other words its a very good rubber but you have to adjust your technique. ------------- Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V |
Posted By: Hans Regenkurt
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 2:11pm
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I give credit to Petermoos words, I can sense that he is a high level player.
Here a quite a few players have tried T64 and the majority found the same as Petermoo. The penetration is still not there, and what is more, it lacks spin. By the way, in the country where I am living everybody except the players of the highest two leagues are gluing just as before. |
Posted By: dragon kid
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 2:49pm
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Good player? he should be, He is the Jamaican national champion.. I bet he can beat 99.9 % forum members, I probably won't score a single point against him if I don't get an edge or a net  ------------- 'Nobody is Perfect. I am Nobody' |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 03/31/2009 at 10:00pm
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Hey Peter, your discovery isn't exactly in line with what BTY Korea felt, eh? Well, that review guy has to make a living pimping rubber somehow and I don't blame him. ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: bozbrisvegas
Date Posted: 04/01/2009 at 8:31am
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Im not questioning this guys ability, but It seems like he got overhyped about something. Like me going to a movie and realising I have seen all the good parts.
Honestly his review sounded similar to mine except I feel I gave it more time before condeming it, actually I sold every 64 I got because I thought 05 was better. In the mean time my backhand has never been this good with any other rubber than with the 64.
Its faster because its better at punching
its better than most other rubbers because it catches the ball more consistantly
its also got catapult "bounce" what high tension tensor jargon you want to say
So would be very interested to see what petermoo has to say about the rubber he thinks is better.
I find so many people come in with a new rubber and just bag it because it doesnt play automatically the way there old rubber did. Common you have to expect adjustment, and even the 10 players in the world will not go into the next championship after using something for a few weeks.
t64 has really grown on me ------------- Grubba Variant ALL fh: Hurricane 38 degrees MAX bh: tensor MAX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQgNPkpILsg&list=PL9V-XUSPJgk-loYl2zRhQZ29lsAK7tdLX" rel="nofollow - Watch me playing TT |
Posted By: patrick1v
Date Posted: 04/01/2009 at 11:33pm
| some rubbers do not play well with some blades he matched it up with the gergly blade i believe he said. sometimes this is the reason |
Posted By: bozbrisvegas
Date Posted: 04/02/2009 at 3:15am
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It ought to be good with that although I havent tried it. The non linear thing he talks about is actually what some people would say is good, others find it hard to control. I always found bryce speed glued as the most extreme non linear rubber but just loved it. I found it very similar to 64 in its fling (as close as you can come to speed glue without).
Adjusting to the fling and finding exact right distance from which the rubber works best is the key, I believe butterfly actually got this one very right.
First I prefered 05 on backhand at any distance but now after months of play have totally been rewarded by trying to perfect my backhand with 64, 64 is much more dynamic in my mind. You just have to have a bit more open face at the table.
I still keep wondering about 05 and 64 when looping... which one kicks the ball forward more? sometimes I think its 05 and then 64.
64 when close to the table loops sometimes short sometimes less or more spin
05 is more consistant spin - no real suprises once you get used to it, a longer loop but sometimes diving down to early from a distance...
so 05 closer to the table 64 further.
when you make an error and get pushed back - most people will hammer your backhand so therefore 64 makes sense there
------------- Grubba Variant ALL fh: Hurricane 38 degrees MAX bh: tensor MAX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQgNPkpILsg&list=PL9V-XUSPJgk-loYl2zRhQZ29lsAK7tdLX" rel="nofollow - Watch me playing TT |
Posted By: Axio
Date Posted: 08/29/2009 at 8:38am
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dude...may I ask how many top pro players are using Tenergy 64...and they don't complain about it hhahaha
------------- "Member of Single Ply Hinoki Club" BTY Special 10mm 84g + HEXER HD BTY Special 10mm 84g + HEXER HD BTY Kim Taek Soo Special 10mm 88g + HEXER HD |
Posted By: satthu
Date Posted: 08/29/2009 at 12:35pm
Some freaking dumb/sexist comments ------------- Darker 5P-2A ST Banda Sigma Stiga Mendo MP |
Posted By: figgie
Date Posted: 08/29/2009 at 12:51pm
Hmm. I got used to it in about 1hour. Ask Bull_Harrier. Hell to me T05 plays a bit slower than untuned BW2. my main problem with T05 (and it is not a deficiency) is if I do not put any energy forward. Ball goes into the net without fall. Hell, that is my first indication that I am starting to faulter on footwork. ------------- Speed glue, booster, tuner free since 2006!!! |
Posted By: GBtabletennis
Date Posted: 08/29/2009 at 1:17pm
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I play now with T64 on my backhand before I used BryceSPeedFX. BsFX has less feeling, throw angle is much lower. My ball feeling gets better and now my topspins becomes to killer loops. Punching gets better to because T64 is more control able. For the Forehand, If you like Tenergy, but you punch and counter many times, use the 64 version, the 05 version you wouldn't fits you. ------------- 
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Posted By: Mdman
Date Posted: 08/29/2009 at 2:34pm
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I am using Tenergy 64 on my FH and Bryce speed FX on backhand, T64 is really the best looping rubber and I am very happy with that, but the Bryce Fx does not feel right somehow, I wanted to change my backhand to T64 but because my blade is Amultart I think it would become a heavy set up and I don't want that.
I put T25 on my backhand and it became too heavy and uncomfortable, what do you think I should do? |
Posted By: Stavros
Date Posted: 08/29/2009 at 2:52pm
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In Greece many top players play T64 on f/h and Bryce Speed FX(boosted) on b/h. I hope it helps. ------------- InfinityVPS - D80 - D05 |
Posted By: LOOPMEISTER
Date Posted: 08/29/2009 at 2:53pm
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UGHH. Why resurrect this thread?
NEWSFLASH: If you are a power hitter and you don't like expensive, spinny rubbers, don't buy Tenergy! |
Posted By: Blade
Date Posted: 08/29/2009 at 5:48pm
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I have played with Joola EGP for a couple of years and I tried out t64 Looking for something with a slightly harder feel for my forehand, which t64 has. I like the feel of T64 very much and the spin it creates, however my flat hitting with it was much slower and more difficult to achieve as compared to the EGP. I tried it on 4-5 blades ranging from flexy all+ types to stiff off types, but it never allowed me to smash well . So my experience was similar to Petermoo's. I have decided just to stick with the EGP even though it feels a little soft, because I know what will happen when I hit/loop the ball and I can put it away easily on high balls( not with T64). One other factor about EGP that I find to be reallypleasing, is that It keeps similar (liner)playing characteristics on different types of blades. Just my two cents/ $46 on T64  |
Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 08/29/2009 at 7:13pm
How dare you! You are an idiot if you think that its dumb or sexist to think that a rubber is better suited to females than males or a particular level of player. Its an empirical fact that the female game is different to the male game and the material requirements are different as is the fact that lower level players have different requirements. I am prepared to put my table tennis qualifications up against yours anytime so tell me your pedigree as a player and academically and lets have an intellectual discussion on this point. Otherwise I might think its just a dumb comment. Petermoo |
Posted By: Axio
Date Posted: 08/29/2009 at 10:16pm
Chill out bro...each of you just have different points of view...  ------------- "Member of Single Ply Hinoki Club" BTY Special 10mm 84g + HEXER HD BTY Special 10mm 84g + HEXER HD BTY Kim Taek Soo Special 10mm 88g + HEXER HD |
Posted By: alphapong
Date Posted: 08/29/2009 at 10:30pm
Just wondering. Do you have to use a snorkel to breath? Most people who have their head where yours is would suffocate.
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Posted By: BeaverMD
Date Posted: 08/30/2009 at 3:05pm
Hi Peter,
First, I don't believe you meant anything sexist about your comments. However, let me comment on why some might construe it as such.
In the early 90's ('92 or '93 I think), I watched the U.S. Team Competition in Detroit (this has been duely replaced by the NA Teams in Baltimore). One top competitor there was Chen Jing. She had great credentials with her 1988 Olympic WS Gold and she would be the 1993 Worlds WS Finalist losing only to Hyun Jung Hwa. Among the players she faced was Wang Tao. Not surprisingly, she could not handle his loops and would block most of them long or pop them up straight in the air. What surprised me though was she did this as well when facing some loops from U.S. competition. Here she is, probably the top 5 woman in the world and she's popping up loops from someone who's not even in the top 400 of the world. Such was the case back then as you may know.
Let's fast forward to today. The majority of women still have the counter-hitting/blocking game but it's now much refined. They are able to hang with strong male loopers. Example, the 2007 NA Teams winner in Baltimore was the ECU (East China U.) Women's Team beating top Canadian loopers such as Wilson Zhang and Peter Paul Praedeeban. In March, Zhang Yining played in a Killerspin tournament beating both top U.S player Mark Hazinski, Lupulesku and Lucjan Blaszcyk (sp). There are a few reasons why women are now blocking/countering stronger against loop. Perhaps with the rise of many good female loopers ex. Tamara Boros, Lin Ling, Toth, Struse, Silbereisen etc., they think that they need to practice against strong male loopers thus making them stronger in competition. Also, maybe the glue ban has reduced the spin enough that the ball is not so "hot" and they can block it and counter softer loops. As a matter of fact, when I work on my BH block and countering, I use Zhang Yining as an example (except I suck more
 ) because she's so sharp. So although I think you didn't mean anything with the "female" comment, you can see why saying something along the lines of "Tenergy 64 sucks so it maybe only good for females" it can ruffle some feathers. Women have worked hard in the past two decades to adapt against strong loopers i.e. men. Perhaps it would be better to say "Tenergy 64 sucks for the all out looping game but could be better for counter-driving/hitting, such as preferred by the top females." I do understand you're a player and not a politician (you're not are you?).
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Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 08/30/2009 at 5:54pm
When i review a rubber, I always try to be as sincere and truthful as possible. I actually get sent a few rubbers from time to time and I put up my findings as a way of sharing the information with people who I consider to be my peers.
Its not likely we will all agreee on any one thing at any time thats too much to ask.
I actually welcome differing points of view to my own as I have realised that even the most highly educated minds can come to opposite conclusions when faced with the same facts.
I find that in the USA especially people are somewhat overburdened by the need to be politically correct all the time. Thats fine but sometimes it prevents people from saying what they honestlt feel.
I remember a couple of years back while training with my national team, the chinese coach took a hit with my bat. Hammond , F2 on Gergeleyand said to me.
"Too easy! too easy! like womans bat!"
They insisted that I try to switch to standard chinese issue H3, Sriver and I tried it out.
For a few weeks I trained with this setup doing multiball and other drills with the team.
It nearly killed me.
I remember one time a television crew came in and filmed me collapsing on the floor from the intense training!
And then I decided to switch back to my womens bat!
I watched with great interest the match with Mark Hazinsky and Zhang Yining a few months back but my memories of the match are not the same as yours.
I noticed that when Haz powered up his drives Zhang would block off the few good shots Haz made but Zhang just seemed so good at keeping him off balance that she never really had to put out any effort to beat him.
She just seemed so unperturbed and relaxed that the outcome was never in doubt.
My point is not that the womans game is lower,its just different.
Higher/lower depends on the players level not the gender.
Petermoo
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Posted By: BeaverMD
Date Posted: 08/31/2009 at 2:11pm
Peter, you know your reviews are always welcome and well-respected in this forum. And if top players like you (and Brian Pace) consider all the clowns in here (including me) your peers, well that's just freakin' awesome.
Yes, political correctness can often get out of hand here in the U.S. It was quite ridiculous maybe a decade ago but things have improved. I think as long as people are respectful in voicing their opinions, there hasn't been any major problems.
That's quite a funny and interesting story about your Chinese coach. Since I don't use H3, I guess he would call my racket a "women's bat" as well. Fine by me
Regarding Haz vs. Zhang YN, I actually didn't share my thoughts but here they are after watching the match again on youtube. I think the first game really affected Mark when he lost after being ahead 10-6 or something like that. This game actually reminded me of when a top woman in the world vs. a top player in the U.S. (usually in the hundreds in world ranking) faced each other. Lots of loops blocked long or popping straight up the ceiling. So, it still happens even though women block much better now. Despite getting powered through in some points, Zhang did a good job and maintained composure in winning the game.
2nd game - Mark appeared more focused at the start to make up for the first game mental lapse. But in his desire to power through Zhang, he misses lots of backhand loops (one of his best shots) by misreading lots of her pushes. Zhang wins quickly.
3rd game - Mark actually got off to a good start 4-0 but Zhang responds with 5 points in a row. They were tied at 8-8 but Mark was a bit careless with a couple of serve returns and Zhang closed it out.
Overall, I think Zhang took advantage with better short game (pushes, serves and serve returns) and Mark wasn't able to just power through her. Mark did well except for the second game despite losing 3-0. But you're right, he had good enough power to penetrate her defense. She just had better control and placement.
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Posted By: bozbrisvegas
Date Posted: 02/14/2010 at 12:11am
Quite a bit of this expert review seemed focussed on the cost of the rubber. Now that the rubber has become available much cheaper and almost the same price as the top of the range Andro or European rubbers, do you still think it's that bad?
------------- Grubba Variant ALL fh: Hurricane 38 degrees MAX bh: tensor MAX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQgNPkpILsg&list=PL9V-XUSPJgk-loYl2zRhQZ29lsAK7tdLX" rel="nofollow - Watch me playing TT |
Posted By: debraj
Date Posted: 02/14/2010 at 12:35am
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haha... good find boz. are you a lawyer by any chance...
but this proves our perceptions change at any level, as we get to explore a rubber and discover its strengths and weaknesses and adapt to that. ------------- 729-F1||Rhyzm-P(FH)|| Rasant Grip orRhyzm-P max(BH) http://youtu.be/y9y9nE9g778" rel="nofollow - vid1 http://youtu.be/xqNy786yGOs" rel="nofollow - Vid 2 |
Posted By: bozbrisvegas
Date Posted: 02/14/2010 at 1:08am
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I am honestly curious Debraj. I think Peter Moo is an excellent player just from the results. Proof is in the pudding. I am not trying to start anything here. I want answers to questions about equipment. This review really suprised me and I thought it was the most interesting review of tenergy 64 we ever got because it came directly to us at our forum from someone who is the best player in their country.I want final answers about what professionals think. I am currently sifting through the truth in Jun Mizutani's graphs which have just come out saying the complete opposite. His graphs however come via butterfly and I don't trust any company or sponsored player.
In particular I would like to know about
Blocking with tenergy 64
Peter moo said it was terrible. Jun Mizutani said it was the best tenergy.
I totally agree with Peter about driving the ball and just wanting that kind of forward trajectory with speed. But I really think both t64 and hexer are not made for that at the table.
He also said the spin on serves was great. Mizutani believes t64 is the worst of the tenergy for serves.
Anyway I am interested in assisting trying to get some more accurate answers about what pros feel about tenergy 64 - Peter Moo is the closest pro that we mortals have a little access to ask questions. ------------- Grubba Variant ALL fh: Hurricane 38 degrees MAX bh: tensor MAX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQgNPkpILsg&list=PL9V-XUSPJgk-loYl2zRhQZ29lsAK7tdLX" rel="nofollow - Watch me playing TT |
Posted By: hungga
Date Posted: 02/14/2010 at 1:31am
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Aye, my experience with T64 was rather a mixed bag. I must admit that I'm not as good as everyone here but a shot or two made with T64 got approval from guys at the club, up to a point where they never give me a mid distance return. It's out of the world shot once a while like petermoo said but non linearity is there. The ball dipped after landing on the table. Can we count how many point scoring return of Ma Long's BH to justify this rubber as the best driver? ------------- :: EJ level 1 :: |
Posted By: bozbrisvegas
Date Posted: 02/14/2010 at 1:34am
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hold on what does non linear mean?
------------- Grubba Variant ALL fh: Hurricane 38 degrees MAX bh: tensor MAX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQgNPkpILsg&list=PL9V-XUSPJgk-loYl2zRhQZ29lsAK7tdLX" rel="nofollow - Watch me playing TT |
Posted By: hungga
Date Posted: 02/14/2010 at 1:40am
Unstable output. Same stroke but different behavior of the ball in term of speed and spin. ------------- :: EJ level 1 :: |
Posted By: bozbrisvegas
Date Posted: 02/26/2010 at 10:05pm
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Peter Moo,
do you think tenergy topsheet red has more spin than black? Because of the composition of the rubber - I mean the ingredients in the rubber or because red is softer or what?
Does this apply to all the tenergy and what is your prediction for colour related to the butterfly spin art coming out very soon, since it is meant to be tacky ------------- Grubba Variant ALL fh: Hurricane 38 degrees MAX bh: tensor MAX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQgNPkpILsg&list=PL9V-XUSPJgk-loYl2zRhQZ29lsAK7tdLX" rel="nofollow - Watch me playing TT |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 9:50am
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I think it is pretty obvioius since this thread first appeared that T05 and T64 are popular for players at a really wide range of levels. And not just women and intermediate players. |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 10:42am
a friend tried the TO5 nat version and is really diferent
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Posted By: Jolan
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 10:50am
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I have T64 red and black on Oscar and can't feel any difference. ------------- Joola Wyzaryz Freeze Vega pro 2.0mm Vega intro 2.0mm Blade collection : https://photos.app.goo.gl/PrgCu5ib5RnhVXTn9" rel="nofollow - https://photos.app.goo.gl/PrgCu5ib5RnhVXTn9 |
Posted By: ejmaster
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 1:29pm
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peter moo needs to have another blade. i show several good players using gergely that they can improve with another blade. Maybe at his local level he does not need more control but he will need it getting the road further. gergely is a good blade to train as a second blade.
i know gergely is a lot of fun and in some local level can even use long serves to third ball attack but this just works to a playing level.
gergely is a difficult blade to test rubbers.
good player does not mean good equipment advisor. -------------  EJ Club. MM T05(fh)/Srvfx(bh);  InfVps,LSW,Viscaria,RwV,TBAlc,PG7,yextsc,yeo. EJmaster wood.
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Posted By: chris.b40
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 5:01pm
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I have t64 on HK655 and it is one mean machine probably the best rubber suited to this blade since Bryce speed FX. ------------- AVALOX BLUE THUNDER |
Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 6:06pm
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Hello Bob,
Let me define what I mean when I refer to linearity.
If you graph bat speed versus resultant ball speed for a linear setup you would show them to be in direct proportion i.e (a straight line) a slow shot produces a slow ball, a swing twice as fast produces a ball exactly twice as fast etc.
Non linearity occurs when the resultant ball speed is non intuitive and does not exactly match the effort put into making the stroke.
This is not the same as unstable or unpredictable because over time and with practice with a particular setup, a player gets used to its peculiarites and may even extract advantages from using it.
Petermoo
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Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 6:19pm
I have found many other players at many international championships I have played in using the same blade as myself .
I held Schlagers blade a few years ago and it felt quite similar to mine!
I dont feel that the Gergely blade is particularly difficult for anything and as a matter of fact I have acquired a few trophies in my time (not just local ones) to attest to that.
If a good player is not a good equipment advisor do you think a mediocre player will make a good advisor?
Petermoo
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Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 6:27pm
This is just my opinion.
I have been playing with Butterfly equipment for many years.
For most Butterfly rubbers the red is the more dynamic and mechanically grippier. You would have observed over the years most Butterfly contarct players (Klampar, Jonyer. Douglas, Grubba, Boll, Kreanga) would have used the red on thier forehand.
The problem with the Tenergies is that they are so grippy that the red has an enormously exagerated high throw. Players have disovered that the black, being slighly less grippy has a slighly more manageable lower throw and therefore Timo and many others are using the black tenergy on thier forehand.
Disclaimers: I said most Butterfly rubbers not all, there are exceptions.
Petermoo
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Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 6:43pm
Hello Bob,
I just finished testing T25 and will share my opinion on that soon.
I just want to clear up a few points you raise here.
All the tenergies serve well because of the highly grippy surface. The topsheet is the same material throughout, just the pimple construcions are different. T25 has the best bite , T05 and 64 are almost identical and are therefore also great serving rubbers.
I think the dificulty I have with blocking with the rubber is due to its non-linear response to incoming speed and spin. I think that its just a characteristic of the spring sponge and yes, I agree that with practice these problems can be overcome, But then, why should you have to?
My brain, after so many years of training works in a certain way, Particularly my reflex actions.
I angle my bat a certain amount for a ball coming in at medium speed and everythings fine. My opponent sends in a slighly faster loop and 'whoa!' the ball flies off because it went into the sponge a little bit deeper than my conditioned response tells me to adjust for.
Petermoo
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Posted By: ejmaster
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 6:59pm
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there are a lot of good players playing with whatever they like from he zhi wen playing with a piece of wood blade to machado somedays with moonbeam then primorac carbon and etc. But it does not mean those blades were the best to play with. And for sure gergely is not a good blade to test Tenergy64.
conclusions about testing tenergy64 with gergely are just to gergely. I believe chris saying tenergy64 plays awsome in hk655 because it is a softer tenergy matching well with the hard feeling of hk. And the blade changes absolutely the feeling of the rubber.
gergely is carbon with a mid feeling between hard and midsoft being stiff not very clear to match. i played gergely and i have seen players with sriver, markv, mark v gps, etc. probably better with tenergy05.
peter is playing with gergely but no one in the top 20 is playing with gergely. so following the logic of being succesful players right one should quit gergely. of course not.
i am not telling you to quit gergely. I am telling to have another blade.
there is no need to be wang liquin to see how much points players in the highest level miss because lack of precision.
up to 2,300-2,400 around gergely and schlager carbon are good. In the top 50 there will be some trouble. try to keep a short game with gergely in that level.
i know schlager plays sc but this is not the easiest path to go.
trying a lot of stuff around a blade usually means feeling something that can be improved. sometimes that something is the blade.
------------- EJ Club. MM T05(fh)/Srvfx(bh); InfVps,LSW,Viscaria,RwV,TBAlc,PG7,yextsc,yeo. EJmaster wood.
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Posted By: chris.b40
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 7:18pm
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ejmaster QUOTE
And for sure gergely is not a good blade to test Tenergy64.
conclusions about testing tenergy64 with gergely are just to gergely. I believe chris saying tenergy64 plays awsome in hk655 because it is a softer tenergy matching well with the hard feeling of hk. And the blade changes absolutely the feeling of the rubber.
gergely is carbon with a mid feeling between hard and midsoft being stiff not very clear to match. i played gergely and i have seen players with sriver, markv, mark v gps, etc. probably better with tenergy05.
peter is playing with gergely but no one in the top 20 is playing with gergely. so following the logic of being right succesful players you should quit gergely. of course not.
i am not telling you to quit your gergely. I am telling you to have another blade.
there is no need to be wang liquin to see how much points players in the highest level miss because lack of precision.
up to 2,300-2,400 around gergely and schlager carbon are good. In the top 50 there will be some trouble. try to keep a short game with gergely in that level.
i know schlager plays sc but this is not the easiest path to go.
trying a lot of stuff around a blade usually means feeling something that can be improved. sometimes that something is the blade.
+! ------------- AVALOX BLUE THUNDER |
Posted By: ejmaster
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 7:36pm
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well chris, i am a mediocre player but really an expert in equipment. peter moo is better player than me but he is not as expert as i am in equipment. and the thread was the experts review. so that is why i get in. lol.
About the blade, I recommend EJm off.
------------- EJ Club. MM T05(fh)/Srvfx(bh); InfVps,LSW,Viscaria,RwV,TBAlc,PG7,yextsc,yeo. EJmaster wood.
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Posted By: chris.b40
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 7:39pm
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Strange enough ej I was going to send you a pm asking you to respond to this thread (expert) ------------- AVALOX BLUE THUNDER |
Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 7:42pm
Petermoo
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Posted By: bozbrisvegas
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 8:06pm
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Moo am I Bob?
Please Change to Boz next quote thanks if you are referring to me or else I will call you
Pee or something like that.
joking
Peter would you please answer 1 question, which rubber did you win your last few tournaments with? ------------- Grubba Variant ALL fh: Hurricane 38 degrees MAX bh: tensor MAX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQgNPkpILsg&list=PL9V-XUSPJgk-loYl2zRhQZ29lsAK7tdLX" rel="nofollow - Watch me playing TT |
Posted By: chris.b40
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 8:21pm
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Tenergy 64 does everything well loops well chops well drives well blocks well ....need i go any further It excells at all the above as well Ha.. HA !!! ------------- AVALOX BLUE THUNDER |
Posted By: chris.b40
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 8:53pm
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Can any one here tell me about the FX version of Tenergy ? has it been released and if so would you share your findings please. ------------- AVALOX BLUE THUNDER |
Posted By: ejmaster
Date Posted: 02/27/2010 at 9:03pm
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going further with the thread, to handle tenergy it is key the technique. most people have more trouble with tenergy in fh than in bh. this is because the blade angle. with tenergy have to hit more perpendicular to the ball so the blade angle must be more open, and let the rubber do the job.
One can realize with the bh the wrist can be opened 90 degrees but with the fh more or less 45�. to open the blade angle with the fh we can open the hand wrist or just open the blade angle in the hand the same timo boll does keeping the wrist straight forwarding. have to adapt the stroke technique to use Tenergy. otherwise there is trouble.
------------- EJ Club. MM T05(fh)/Srvfx(bh); InfVps,LSW,Viscaria,RwV,TBAlc,PG7,yextsc,yeo. EJmaster wood.
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Posted By: bozbrisvegas
Date Posted: 08/05/2010 at 11:08pm
fx is out and it sucks ------------- Grubba Variant ALL fh: Hurricane 38 degrees MAX bh: tensor MAX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQgNPkpILsg&list=PL9V-XUSPJgk-loYl2zRhQZ29lsAK7tdLX" rel="nofollow - Watch me playing TT |
Posted By: bozbrisvegas
Date Posted: 08/05/2010 at 11:11pm
disagree totally, if anything most people will have trouble being ready for spinny serves or any incoming spin weirdness. just as most people would put short pips on their backhand contrasted to their fh inverted they would also put the spinnier rubber on the fh and the others on the backhand. ------------- Grubba Variant ALL fh: Hurricane 38 degrees MAX bh: tensor MAX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQgNPkpILsg&list=PL9V-XUSPJgk-loYl2zRhQZ29lsAK7tdLX" rel="nofollow - Watch me playing TT |
Posted By: Fruit loop
Date Posted: 08/05/2010 at 11:30pm
+1 agreed. ------------- Timo Boll Spirit FL Dr Evil ox both sides. |
Posted By: ejmaster
Date Posted: 08/06/2010 at 5:14am
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at the beginning when one has not the technique to play tenergy, the tenergy fh gets more difficult to adapt. it needs to open the blade angle. the fh wrist goes to 45º around, the bh wrist 90º around. have to adapt the fh more to play in a similar result than before with classic rubbers. afterwards, when having the right fh tecnique, the bh gets more difficult. as most of the times with classic rubbers. the bh usually gets more difficult to develop.
i was talking about adapting technique to play tenergy. if the bh is ones weak side this is not supposed to change with tenergy.
at the beginning, it took me lot more time to get the technique to play tenergy in the fh than in the bh. at the end, i improve playing level in the fh but not the same in the bh. Because my bh is a weaker side.
------------- EJ Club. MM T05(fh)/Srvfx(bh); InfVps,LSW,Viscaria,RwV,TBAlc,PG7,yextsc,yeo. EJmaster wood.
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Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 08/06/2010 at 7:36am
15 months down the line, I bet you wish you never said that..... ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 08/06/2010 at 9:21am
Actually no. It was wrong of me to say the rubber is crap (even if I really did think so, and I was disappointed because of my elevated expectations of T64) The fact that T64 is popular and selling well does not contradict what i said 15 months ago, it enhances it. Who do you think is actually buying all this rubber? I still think the high bounciness at low speeds and the lack of predictability (non linearity) at high speeds make this more of a beginner, intermediate, female ideal (no issues of bottoming out) rubber or at least a backhand close to the table rubber. 15 months later, I see a few of the butterfly pros use this rubber for their fishing nudging blocking games (Kenta? Miz?). Oh yeah and Ma Long uses it for his over the table BH loop but so what? I know its not politically correct to say something is suited for females or beginners but I'm not running for office, I'm just reviewing a rubber! My chinese coach used to say the same thing of the hammond i was using for years ('too easy! too easy!), he knew what he was talking about and as my forehand got better, I naturally gravitated towards the harder rubbers. Petermoo
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Posted By: Fruit loop
Date Posted: 08/06/2010 at 9:42am
>implying a rubber is bad because of copious amounts of non professional players are buying lots of it. I would agree with half of what you say for forehand but tenergy64 is almost flawless when it comes to backhand. I don't know how far you like to stand from the table or what blade you like to use but if it's bottoming out, you're doing it wrong. ------------- Timo Boll Spirit FL Dr Evil ox both sides. |
Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 08/06/2010 at 11:40am
Who said the rubber is bad because lots of non pros use it? Was that supposed to be me or someone else in the thread? I'm saying it's a good rubber for those people who are buying it and there are lots of such people. Just not me. In any forum there are going to be people who have different opinions on various things. Whenever I tour, I always talk equipment with international players most of them full time professionals and quite a few of them share my opinion (or more exactly help to form my opinion) on the need for harder rubbers especially in the mens forehand game. You could be right that if I am bottoming out the T64 then my technique is wrong. It cant be the Tenergy! Thats the holy grail! Except that, for me, I manage quite well same stroke with Bryce, BSpeed, Hammond, Platin , Coppa Speed,HPB and H3 no issues, so, given the choice, I'd rather change the rubber than change the technique. It would be helpful if you could point to me any players on the world stage who are playing a power driving game with this rubber so I could observe their technique. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 1:24am
| Ma Long uses it. So does Kenta. (Also Jun Mitzutani, Oh Sang Eun, Seiya Kishikawa). But it's only for women and beginners? Did I actually read this? (Goes back to re-read). Why yes I did. To my utter stupefaction. |
Posted By: Fruit loop
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 4:25am
You stated that tenergy 64 is a "bunch of steaming crap." You then proceeded to defend your statement by implying that your opinion was enhanced by the copious amounts of sales butterfly have made from this rubber, thus assuming (most likely rightly) that majority of those sales were by non-professional/female players. I never said that you said that the rubber was bad because lots of non pro's use it, I said your words implied or conveyed that message. ------------- Timo Boll Spirit FL Dr Evil ox both sides. |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 5:09am
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All sales of all rubbers are by non professionals, but as far as high level players go, we have many in the UK of a comparable and greater standard than petermoo, and quite a few use T64 on their f/hands, oh yes, they are of the male variety too.... ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 8:25am
You need to reread again. At no point did I say the rubber is only for women and beginners. Maybe the stupefaction came first  Petermoo |
Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 8:31am
I'm sure you are right. But for my own information and so I can see the proper technique, just name one. Petermoo |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 8:31am
------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 8:37am
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I think Baal has named enough to prove a point really.... and I can't for the life of me understand the 'non linear' comment, I've played with a lot of different kit over 30 yrs, mostly sp/glued, I play a controlled looping game, and I find T64 to be one of the most stable rubbers I've ever played with, further, T05 is more suited to close to the table play, 64 is a mid distance looping rubber. ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 9:16am
Yo Fruitloop I can see why you are not understanding stuff. I know its tenergy man but you gotta keep your cool and read carefully. Let me break it down. whether by implication or stated directly, my approval or disapproval of the rubber performance has absolutely nothing to do with the sales of the rubber. Can I be more clear? If I go further, trying carefully not to confuse, I think its actually an easy rubber for most to play with. By contrast, I think Hurricane3 is not an easy rubber to play with. My main reason for replying to you is your use of the word 'because' . If I had used that word in that statement, it would have been very faulty reasoning and I'm glad I didn't. You are the one who is setting up an argument that because so and so is selling well it must be bad. I dont ever reason like that. |
Posted By: Stavros
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 10:14am
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T64's speed glue effect lasts more than T05's or any other rubber. As for T64's non linearity, I think that it's performance is not so linear as T05 but more linear than all the other (ESN) rubbers that feel "plastic" to me. T64 is the only rubber that performs like the superb speed glued Sriver EL. ------------- InfinityVPS - D80 - D05 |
Posted By: Fruit loop
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 10:43am
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Peter, the only issue i have is the irony in your statements. You back up your argument that a certain rubber is bad because it's a high selling rubber.????
------------- Timo Boll Spirit FL Dr Evil ox both sides. |
Posted By: pingpongrob
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 11:11am
Stavros, How can you even say this. Tenergy 64 is so similar to Roxon 450 its not funny. A statment that ESN rubbers feel plastic is so unfair and untrue. To clarify your linear statement, if a rubber is linear, to me it sounds like the has a flat trajectory, whereas Tenergy 05, Hexer, Baracuda all have a very non linear trajectory, Rubbers like Roxon 450, Tenergy 64, Desto's, Platin's & Plasma, also have a Non Linear Trajectory but no where near as Arcy. Its all about the Spin to Speed ratio, The Top players need to boost their tenergy 05 to get the right ratio. If all other brands except BTY would cease to manufacture, then Tenergy 64 would be my preferance as the best rubber - of course without Boosters. ------------- Distributor for Andro, XIOM, Tibhar, Joola, Dr Neubauer, Donic, DHS, AIR, Dawei, 729 & Yinhe http://www.affordablett.com.au" rel="nofollow - http://www.affordablett.com.au |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 11:41am
------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: Stavros
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 11:50am
When I say that ESN rubbers feel plasic, I mean that the topsheet is not elastic enough. With your two hands Try to pull a topsheet from the edges with your two hands . A german topsheet will crack after a little effort. This topsheet is like plastic. If you do the same thing having a Tenergy topsheet you will see that it is very elastic, doesn't crack easily. It expands its length many times without cracking. As for the linear statement what I mean is. When I try 5 Newton force power and the rubber's reaction is a speed let's say X, then if I try 10 Newton force power the rubber's reaction is a speed 2X. Rob, i'm NOT saying that ESN rubbers are rubbish but unfortunately they are not as good as Tenergy 64, for me at least. I wish a TT manufacturer makes a Tenergy like rubber that will cost lower than 57€ (current price of T64). I thing that only Stiga can make an equivalent rubber, maybe Calibra LT Sound? ------------- InfinityVPS - D80 - D05 |
Posted By: Speedplay
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 11:53am
Rob, I might be wrong on this one, but to me, linear is that a rubber gives back what you put in. If you put in 50% in your stroke, then 50% is what you will get. I'm not sure about T 64 as I haven't used it, but in this sense, T 05 is very linear, while Roxon 450 isn't, because with R 450 (as with every other Tensor I have used) there seems to be some sort of in-build speed, or bounciness, which makes them none linear. As for Peter's statement about the T 64, he says it isn't a rubber suited for the top male players game, but well suited for the average players or female players. The big sales indicates that he is right, since most of us don't belong in the top male category. ------------- The holy grail |
Posted By: Speedplay
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 11:55am
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Stavros beat me to the punch on this one, but I guess we at least agree on what linear is =)
As I've stated several times before, Tenergy might not be better then Tensors, but it is different, which is why it is so hard to find a cheaper replacement for it. ------------- The holy grail |
Posted By: Stavros
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 12:10pm
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For those who say that T64 is not used by many top males, bear in mind that: Mizutani, Jun (JPN) Oh San Eun (KOR) Duran, Marc (ESP) Machado, Carlos (ESP) Smirnov, Alexei (RUS) Kuzmin (RUS) All the above male players use T64 both sides. ------------- InfinityVPS - D80 - D05 |
Posted By: bozbrisvegas
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 2:00pm
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woke up a sleeping dragon :) ------------- Grubba Variant ALL fh: Hurricane 38 degrees MAX bh: tensor MAX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQgNPkpILsg&list=PL9V-XUSPJgk-loYl2zRhQZ29lsAK7tdLX" rel="nofollow - Watch me playing TT |
Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 2:33pm
And this is the list Stavros? Are you leaving off some of the big names on purpose? Wheres Ma Long? I really dont know the two spanish guys at all. Are there any powerdrive players who use T64? I for one have never said 'T64 is not used by many top males' ,but based on your list , its beginning to look like that. Petermoo
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Posted By: LOOPMEISTER
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 2:43pm
I don't even know what this thread is about any more, but linear has a different meaning than linear trajectory on this forum. Linear response is that you get back exactly what you put in, for the most part. If you graph a blade or rubber on a X and Y, X being the input--your stroke speed/effort, Y being the speed the ball comes off, linear will be a straight line. If its non linear the graph will be curved... Old school Bryce is a good example of non-linear. Its has only a few gears. Fast. Hit it soft or hard and it will be relatively fast no matter what. Or rubbers that have a consistent feel on most shots but then surprise you at a certain gear could be called non linear. Its not an exact science but good to give a general description of a rubber or blade's characteristics... There are rubbers that are as fast as Bryce in the top speed, but at the same time can go slower at the slow speed game. They would have a more linear response than Bryce. |
Posted By: Stavros
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 2:54pm
OK, if someone here thinks, that he is better than Carlos Machado (No 64, ITTF ranking), it will be very nice to introduce himself. ------------- InfinityVPS - D80 - D05 |
Posted By: LOOPMEISTER
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 3:03pm
Its fair to say that as a high level powerdrive player you don't like T64. But I think there are enough top players using T64 compared to other rubbers, that proves its not just a fringe rubber or "girl's" rubber. And I think Ma Long has enough success with T64 looping away from the table not just right off the bounce. I've seen enough videos lately to know this. He can hit bomb loops with his backhand from way off the table. BTW, Peter can you give an example of a world top 100 player you consider a powerdrive player like you? |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 3:51pm
------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 5:58pm
I have never described myself as a high level powerdrive player but if you think I am, great!!! Powerdrive players (like me): Chen Qi Maichael Maze Werner Schlager Ma Lin Wang Liqin Ryu Sung Min Xu Xin Ma Long Wang Hao Dimitri Ovtcharov Michael Maze Persson Basically the term describes almost every modern offensive player who plays to set up and end the point with a powerful forehand drive. On the Ma Long backhand, its funny you should bring that up as I consider his away from the table backhand loop his lowest percentage shot. You will notice I did not call it his weakest shot, no one can question the power of it, but quite often his opponents try to get him to play this shot away from the table as its his most likely shot to miss. Certainly his away from the table forehand is several times more reliable and therefore potent than his away from the table backhand. Now before some idiot jumps in and says I'm comparing myself to Ma Long let me state that I am not comparing myself to Ma Long. Petermoo |
Posted By: Anton Chigurh
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 6:04pm
Ha ha!!! Petermoo is comparing himself to Ma Long!!! Ha ha!!! Oh, wait... (Sorry, I couldn't resist. Being obnoxious is what I do best.) |
Posted By: bozbrisvegas
Date Posted: 08/07/2010 at 10:45pm
Rob do you have proof that top players need to boost tenergy 05? ------------- Grubba Variant ALL fh: Hurricane 38 degrees MAX bh: tensor MAX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQgNPkpILsg&list=PL9V-XUSPJgk-loYl2zRhQZ29lsAK7tdLX" rel="nofollow - Watch me playing TT |
Posted By: pingpongrob
Date Posted: 08/08/2010 at 8:39am
I have no problems playing slow soft shots with rubbers like bryce, its all in the training - to me Tenergy 05 is Slower than lets say Roxon 500, I'm sure I could play both softly or as you would say - Fastly. ------------- Distributor for Andro, XIOM, Tibhar, Joola, Dr Neubauer, Donic, DHS, AIR, Dawei, 729 & Yinhe http://www.affordablett.com.au" rel="nofollow - http://www.affordablett.com.au |
Posted By: pingpongrob
Date Posted: 08/08/2010 at 8:49am
The question might also look something like this - John do you have proof that they dont boost ? What I will state is that I have not seen them actually boost - but the comments from our elite players coming home from the last Worlds was that nearly all the players at the worlds were boosting, now this bring me to another statement - if most of the pro's are using Tenergy, then this leads me to the conclusion that Tenergy users at the worlds BOOST. Now I'm sure that William didn't need a boosted T05 to beat you in Brisbane, but last time his Rubber was measured it was over 4.0mm, Now how does a 2.1mm T05 that measure's 3.7-3.8mm get to be over 4mm - Answer this one John. Why do the Pro's carry multiple bats, and when one fails they grab another one. Tenergy was developed after the speedglue ban, but before the banning of boosters - its sponge was specially developed for boosting, and thats what it does real well. John, do you have any info or facts that can disprove my theory. ------------- Distributor for Andro, XIOM, Tibhar, Joola, Dr Neubauer, Donic, DHS, AIR, Dawei, 729 & Yinhe http://www.affordablett.com.au" rel="nofollow - http://www.affordablett.com.au |
Posted By: ejmaster
Date Posted: 08/08/2010 at 9:36am
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The statement would have been better saying, I think and I heard that .... but I am not sure.
------------- EJ Club. MM T05(fh)/Srvfx(bh); InfVps,LSW,Viscaria,RwV,TBAlc,PG7,yextsc,yeo. EJmaster wood.
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Posted By: Speedplay
Date Posted: 08/08/2010 at 3:25pm
I disagree, there are differences in rubbers and they require different actions to get the same result. Of course you can play any given shot with either one of the rubbers, but this doesn't change the fact that the rubbers behaves differently. To me, all Tensor rubbers reassembles of each other, but the Tenergy is completely different. This is not the same as saying Tenergy is better then Tensors, cause this depends on the hands (and preferences) of the player. To give you an example, if I hold my bat stationary against a loop, the rebound speed from the Roxon 450 is a lot higher then that of the Tenergy 05, but when I counter attack instead, I get roughly the same speed from both of them. If I want to get the same reaction with R 450 that I get from the T 05, I have to make a pull back block, which is possible, just like I can block with a forward motion, using the T 05 to get the same speed as I get from the passive block with R 450. Some people want it one way, others want it the other way, that's just preferences. ------------- The holy grail |
Posted By: bozbrisvegas
Date Posted: 08/08/2010 at 7:49pm
Not sure the about the tone of your reply and why my English name has been put in bold so many times. The reasoning is good, I was looking for an honest answer and just heard from a little birdy that Pinky also said everyone was boosting. Now having said all this I feel a little bit of a misleading false dichotomy. (is that a word?) Tenergy 05 needs to be boosted seemed like the conclusion but it is far from the truth. I see it more like, players who want the maximum looping set up will choose the tenergy PLUS they will try to even increase that chemicals which expand that maximum to higher level again. ------------- Grubba Variant ALL fh: Hurricane 38 degrees MAX bh: tensor MAX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQgNPkpILsg&list=PL9V-XUSPJgk-loYl2zRhQZ29lsAK7tdLX" rel="nofollow - Watch me playing TT |
Posted By: Kolev
Date Posted: 08/08/2010 at 9:03pm
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I know personally some top-pro players . All the T05 they use have been boosted somehow.
------------- Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x3) FH: D05/G1/RX BH: Z2/D64/Ω7Pro |
Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 08/08/2010 at 9:54pm
I can not speak for the very top echelon of players (100 and above) , but I can confirm that below that boosting is common whatever the rubber. I am not going to be drawn into a Tenergy argument specifically as I do not want to upset the people for whom this rubber has taken on religious proportions but Tenergy is actually commonly boosted and sounds and performs great! I dont however buy the argument that Tenergy was designed to be boosted as its one of the few non-ESN rubbers that comes out of the package with a really good catapult effect. Petermoo
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