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Effects of sponge hardness and thickness on throw

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Topic: Effects of sponge hardness and thickness on throw
Posted By: sweetstrike
Subject: Effects of sponge hardness and thickness on throw
Date Posted: 12/15/2010 at 2:27am
I just started using a sheet of Dawei 388A-4 Navigator GT with a 2.2mm 40°(claimed) sponge. I noticed right away a higher throw angle. I really like the topsheet as it is generating a lot of spin but wouldn't mind losing some spin and speed for a lower throw.

Given the same topsheet:

Would going to a harder sponge decrease the throw due to shorter contact time?

Would going to a thinner sponge decrease the throw?

I'm looking to get another sheet of the Navigator but am not sure what to get yet.



Replies:
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 12/15/2010 at 6:21am
Originally posted by sweetstrike sweetstrike wrote:

Given the same topsheet:

Would going to a harder sponge decrease the throw due to shorter contact time?

You would likely see a greater loss in control than in throw given the shorter dwell, which in turn requires a faster swing to produce the same spin as you would with a softer sponge, and a more refined technique to maintain the same consistency.

Quote Would going to a thinner sponge decrease the throw?

Likely some decrease in throw, but expect a substantial loss in spin and speed.

In contrast, the pip structure, pattern and thickness of the topsheet play the more prominent roles in throw.  Pips longer in length with a less tight pattern would give more dwell and a higher throw since the "voids" between lines of pips when compressed would act like gutters, providing more grip or traction that grabs on to the ball before projecting it out.  Popular rubbers like Tenergy 05 and Hurricane 3 (Old) have this structure and they throw (pretty) high.  Tenergy 25 and Hurricane 2 (Old), in comparison, have thicker topsheets, wider, shorter pips and are more tightly packed, giving a lower throw.  Both manufacturers "claim" both of their products have the same sponge and the only difference is in the topsheet, so there is some truth in that.


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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: sweetstrike
Date Posted: 12/15/2010 at 1:52pm
It sounds like there is always a compromise where if you want the most spin generated from the rubber itself, it will also increase the throw because it is affected more by incoming spin? Before Navigator, I was using Skyline TG3 with an orange sponge. It was tacky enough with lower throw but also the sponge felt more dead.

What are some of the spinniest tacky rubber / sponge combinations that have the least amount of throw? 


Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 12/15/2010 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by sweetstrike sweetstrike wrote:


What are some of the spinniest tacky rubber / sponge combinations that have the least amount of throw? 

The same force that causes throw causes spin.   You can't have one without the other.  If you are talking about the throw angle then that is also affect by the 'speed' or COR of the rubber.  The 'faster' the rubber the lower the throw angle so look for a 'fast' rubber with lots of spin.   If should be obvious that a rubber that returns the ball infinitely fast would have a throw angle of near 0 because the rise over run is low.  Basically throw angle=atan(verticle speed/horizontal speed).



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I TT therefore I am


Posted By: sweetstrike
Date Posted: 12/15/2010 at 4:13pm
I understand you can't have the best of both worlds. I'm searching for more of an optimum balance of spin, and low throw in a tacky rubber. I also want something in the 50g range uncut so a hard and fast, heavy sponge is not something I want. I've been looking through the rubber mass database:

http://mass.doingitwrong.net/ - http://mass.doingitwrong.net/

I'm looking for a FH tacky rubber that can produce a good amount of spin on serves but also has low throw so I can block and flat hit with control and still be able to create heavy topspin. Pretty much something a little more euro feel but tacky. Also it has to be less than $20.

I've tried these:

Dawei Inspirit 2.4mm - Great speed and low throw but not tacky enough for forehand, great for backhand, a little heavy and super fast

LKT Pro XP 2.2mm - Low throw but the sponge felt too mushy and would bottom out all the time on flat hits. Not tacky enough and rather slow. I don't speedglue.

Friendship Geospin 2.0mm - Very tacky and lightweight with medium/high throw on a softer sponge. Lots of spin on serves and pushes. Pretty good balance. Speed is average.

Friendship 729 Cream MRS 2.2mm - Not as much spin on serves as geospin with a slightly firmer sponge. Surprisingly low throw for being pretty tacky. I switched from this because the rubber didn't feel like it was gripping the ball enough. maybe throw was too low.

DHS Skyline TG3 2.2mm - Good spin on serves and medium throw. Best balance I've tried so far. Sponge feels a little dead but I can flat hit and loop well. Speed is good. On the heavier side.

Dawei Navigator GT 2.2mm - This is a wild rubber with high throw but it returns with a lot of spin. Good spin on serves. It is fast and spinny with a lively sponge but is hard for me to control.

I'm looking into the Hurricane 3 No. 19 sponge as a light weight tacky rubber that is firmer than LKT Pro XP and still light weight. I'm hoping the topsheet performs more like the TG3. I'm looking for more of a control rubber than an extreme spin rubber.





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Viscaria FL
FH: Tenergy 05 2.1
BH: Sword Scylla OX


Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 12/15/2010 at 10:03pm
I'm going to take a blind stab and say

Hurricane 2 at 1.8mm sponge? (available at dandoy-sports)

While it won't feel euro at all, it certainly meets all of your other criteria (tacky, throw, weight, serves, spin and shot selection); paired with right blade it should be "fast enough" for most players who already are taking big swings.




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http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42


Posted By: sweetstrike
Date Posted: 12/15/2010 at 10:40pm
Thanks for the recommendation. I definitely want to give H2 and H3 a try. I only have experience with Skyline TG3 right now and liked it a lot. Is the H2 topsheet heavier than H3? I have read that it is thicker.

I think most of the VOC dissipated from the Dawei Navigator GT currently on my blade. I played an hour today and was a lot more controllable and little slower. I'll stick with it for the time being.


-------------
Viscaria FL
FH: Tenergy 05 2.1
BH: Sword Scylla OX



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