(Video) Half-Long Serves
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Topic: (Video) Half-Long Serves
Posted By: JakiGosc
Subject: (Video) Half-Long Serves
Date Posted: 01/30/2011 at 5:08pm
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Here are some of my half-long serves, as well as several double-bounce serves. What do you think? I know I look very lazy serving, but it gets very tiring to stand on bended knees and jump into position after every serve, which is I am standing almost upright  .I don't stomp my foot because it is a dance floor (not very tough). As you can tell, it is very easy to read spin due to the acoustics in the room. Also, how do you like my backhand serve on 0:57  Thanks in advance for any feedback! |
Replies:
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 01/30/2011 at 5:20pm
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I like how crisp and sharp your serve motion is. In spite of the acceleration you get they seem very precise with the added bonus of of quick recovery. ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Posted By: JakiGosc
Date Posted: 01/30/2011 at 5:42pm
Thanks. I learn many serves from videos youtube. For example, Michael Maze on 0:14, Timo Boll on 0:22, Ma Lin hehe on 0:23, Chen Qi on 0:49, 3 Par Gerrels on 0:50 (he is shorter so his body motion looks much different than mine), and Dimitrij Propockov on 1:03.
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Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 01/30/2011 at 10:10pm
The best winning service of mine. (top/side spin with a high travelling velocity) Have learned this from a visiting senior guy some 30 years ago, and it still can get my opponents totally upset nowdays: due to the apparent prominence (up to 5 cm) the ball will go outwards the side line. Quite bizzare sight to the receiver's eye! To enhance the service's destructive effect, one should alternate the service directions occasionally as shown in red. |
Posted By: liang1983
Date Posted: 01/31/2011 at 4:21am
 ------------- Butterfly Photino Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: Imago
Date Posted: 01/31/2011 at 5:43am
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Perfect serves, and lot of diversification. Could you please name/label all serves you perform. Slomo version would also be a great asset to TT community. |
Posted By: dragon kid
Date Posted: 01/31/2011 at 8:24am
Nice.... great serves....  
------------- 'Nobody is Perfect. I am Nobody' |
Posted By: tabletenniscoach.net
Date Posted: 01/31/2011 at 8:31am
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Yeh. Very nice! I particularly like the 7th serve. A slightly bigger action but an awful lot of movement on the ball. Do you mind if I post the link on my website as a nice set of examples of a half long serve? Cheers. ------------- www.tabletenniscoach.net - for hints, tips and drills, free to download. |
Posted By: High_Arc
Date Posted: 01/31/2011 at 9:10am
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Your serves seem to be very good! Thanks for uploading. They seem to have a lot of spin and I often don't realize what type of spin you put on the ball until I see the trajectory. I would certainly have trouble returning them in a decent manner. However, I think your 'half-long' serves are actually long serves and can be attacked easily (of course only if you know the spin...). In my understanding, a half-long serve is a serve which bounces twice on the table, with the second bounce just before the end of the table, but there might be other definitions. |
Posted By: lecrivain
Date Posted: 01/31/2011 at 11:45am
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Hello, Many of your serves are illegal according to the ITTF rules. I'm not sure if you noticed lately but the Pro Tour umpires are really starting to enforce the ITTF rules especially as they pertain to the service. The service rules (and all the others) can be found here. http://www.ittf.com/ittf_handbook/ittf_hb.html Good Luck! |
Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 01/31/2011 at 12:03pm
If you referring to the fact that his arm goes across the trajectory of the ball, then look again - the ball itself is never (almost) obscured, and that is the only important thing. Couple of times it is debatable or perhaps illegal but most of his serves are legal. ------------- Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
lecrivain wrote:Posted By: lecrivain
Date Posted: 01/31/2011 at 12:07pm
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Hello, I was referring to how his toss starts in the middle of the table and he contacts the ball in the BH corner of the table. That is not a vertically tossed ball. According to the rules, that makes a serve illegal. |
Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 01/31/2011 at 12:39pm
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True. But unless his toss is more horizontal than vertical umpires do not really care much about that - this is one of the rules which are really hard to enforce and also it is not really that important (unless a guy tosses the ball horizontally onto the blade) See here (fresh from English Open 2011) the very first serve by Wang Hao (and many many others) - is it any different from JakiGosc's serves? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PwctnPVjws - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PwctnPVjws ------------- Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
Posted By: hbelton
Date Posted: 01/31/2011 at 2:17pm
I say JakiGosc's toss travels near twice as far horizonally as Wang Hao's. It starts in the middle of the table and is struck off the table of the BH corner. Would not be worth the risk to me to have someone call me on it during a match and have to get an official involved. ------------- Current setup: Donic Waldner Senso Ultra Carbon FH: Nittaku Hammond Pro B 1.9 BH: Nittaku Hammond Pro B 1.9 Glue: Free Chack |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 02/01/2011 at 3:03am
The ITTF has added some images and discussion to the 2010 Handbook for Match Officials that should help to clarify this a bit. Based on the sketches, my own sense of what "nearly vertical" means, and the fact that for a serve be legal it (according to the rules) must be clearly legal,I consider a number of the original poster's serves with lower tosses to be illegal. Whether I'd call them or not would depend on input and guidance from the tournament referee. While in a perfect world the serves would be called per the rule, this isn't a perfect world. Given that, I'm willing to settle for consistent interpretation between umpires.  ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 02/01/2011 at 3:20am
I'd say that the majority of Wang Hao's serves are legal but that there are four or five serves that are illegal. Though if viewed from eye level, I might change that opinion. I'm concerned that the high camera angle may be "squashing" the perception of the amount of vertical travel and making the toss angle seem less vertical. That said, I've seen much worse routinely allowed in ITTF matches. Though maybe with the revised handbook, the ITTF is trying to crack down on the horizontal tossing. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 02/01/2011 at 3:51am
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I don't think he'll get caught for his serves, as long as I can see the contact point clearly I'm not a complainer. By the way, that's some amazing variety of serves that you've mastered, kudos for that! By the way, some of the half-long serves are actually too long and quite attackable by skilled players, but the majority of them drop down to the edge of the table during the 2nd "bounce", which makes for a high quality half-long serve. Very hard to attack,hard to flick and hard to push short as well, perfect for a 3rd ball attack. It'll be good if you labelled each serve though... (the type of spin on the ball). It would be a very good learning resource for people. ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: lecrivain
Date Posted: 02/01/2011 at 7:55am
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Hello, The service information I provided was not meant to detract from his accomplishments. By no means. So if he is playing and gets faulted for his serves, would the umpire be considered a complainer? Instead of using Wang Hao as an excuse/example to develop potentially questionable serves, why not use someone else like Samsonov? Even when we were allowed to hide our serves, his service technique was beautiful and legal. Mr. JakiGosc, you've done well! But don't stop improving on the good. |
Posted By: Tinykin_2
Date Posted: 02/01/2011 at 9:57am
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To the players it's more a matter of what is generally allowed rather than the wording of the rule itself. A picky umpire could get him for not throwing with enough vertical. But most umpires would not fault those serves. I'd love to see a closeup of those serves. ------------- Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 02/01/2011 at 10:32am
Yes, from a professional player's point of view it will generally be a matter of what is allowed with the idea in mind that what is allowed defines what is legal. I do think, however, that it is unfortunate that the rule and what is allowed are sometimes not the same. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: dragon kid
Date Posted: 02/01/2011 at 11:23am
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I've given up telling people what they can or can't do with their serves.. They will only do it right for a few times then back to their old serves.. I just try to deal with whatever serves they throw at me... probably more than 90% of the grass root players have not read the rules anyway... ------------- 'Nobody is Perfect. I am Nobody' |
Posted By: Dagoboz
Date Posted: 02/01/2011 at 12:47pm
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As far as the rules go, your serves are in compliance with 2.6.1 Service shall start with the ball resting freely on the open palm of the server's stationary free hand. Of all the rules of serves this is the most violated by far. In fact I suspect most players are unaware of it. The key word here is "stationary" Definition: not moving; standing still Service in this game begins with a motionless ball on a motionless hand. Very rare to see outside of the professionals. ------------- Blade: Maze FH: Something BH: Something Else |
Posted By: JakiGosc
Date Posted: 02/02/2011 at 12:35pm
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I had to use a free video converter for this video, which is why the quality is terrible; it was recorded as HD at 60 fps. Regarding the legality of my service, I do see what you mean by not throwing the ball perfectly straight, but it feels very awkward to do that when serving closeto the body. I play tournaments regularly and have not been called for illegal service yet. However, i am practicing higher toss on every serve except the reverse pendulum (shoulder gets in the way for high toss) to shorten the amount of time opponent can look at my paddle, so in a few months i should be adept with those serves.
Igorponger, i do like to do that serve, but unfortunately too many players in Poland have strong backhand :) 80% of the time i will get strong drive around the net from my training partner. It works ok against 80% forehand players, but for me it is risky servewhich i would use maybe 2-3 times in a game. |
Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 02/02/2011 at 12:46pm
True that. However, advising someone to copy Samsonov's serves is tricky. I do some of those too, but a lot of players much prefer closer to the body execution and do not toss the ball high vertically. Telling them they'd better switch to Samsonov style serves is not a good advice and can be even considered patronizing. It's almost like telling someone "your FH topspin loops are not great, stop doing them at all, better just push or chop the ball from there" ------------- Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 02/02/2011 at 12:48pm
Notice however that nowhere in the rule it states that the ball must not touch the fingers. Some umpires think that the ball absolutely must be in the middle (cup of the palm). I got faulted at the Nationals for that which imho was incorrect umpire's interpretation of the rule. ------------- Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 02/02/2011 at 2:31pm
I think the umpire's interpretation is correct. Fingers are not part of the palm. I can't imagine how the ball could be touching a finger while resting freely on the open palm unless the ball is also resting on the fingers. The rule doesn't say that the ball must be at least partially resting on the open palm - which was apparently the case with your serve. That said, I'd probably call a let if the ball was straddling the border between your fingers and palm because there is some ambiguity in the way the rule is written. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |