RPB power and positioning.
Printed From: Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET
Category: Coaching & Tips
Forum Name: Coaching & Tips
Forum Description: Learn more about TT from the experts. Feel free to share your knowledge & experience.
Moderator: yogi_bear
Assistant Moderators: APW46, smackman
URL: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41007
Printed Date: 04/19/2024 at 9:44am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: RPB power and positioning.
Posted By: Rogson
Subject: RPB power and positioning.
Date Posted: 04/02/2011 at 9:34am
|
Is there any way to improve the RPB power? I recently started playing against people with a higher skill cap and I've found out about a big weakness of mine because I can't seem to generate enough power with my RPB to finish the point, All I can manage to do is produce a very spinny,low arc,medium speed semi-loop kill that my opponents can have a field day with. and flat hitting doesn't work either, its even weaker.... Also, does anyone else have the problem of automatically closing the racket when attempting to loop due to the grip? I've tried opening and closing the racket to suit the opponent's incoming spin but when I have to open the racket, I can't seen to generate enough power with my arm but then I resort to bend my wrist down, resulting in sinking the ball to the net all the times. And there is the positioning too, what is the best way to position for a RPB'er? I usually stand right in the middle of the left side but I've found out that I can't seem to cover my backhand well in there and I can't do a comfortable RPB loop in there, everytime I have to do a rpb, I have to lean a bit to the right side if my opponent loops it to the far left even though im the middle of the left side. even worse if the incoming loop is very low, I can't seem to hit rpb and 70%of the times I resort to do a traditional block... Thanks a lot in advance. and sorry about the wall of text.  ------------- Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive Forehand DHS Hurricane 3 Backhand DHS Hurricane 2 |
Replies:
Posted By: shaolinTT
Date Posted: 04/02/2011 at 12:14pm
| A non-tacky, Japanese / European style rubber would probably work better for RPB. It will lighten your set up too. : ) |
Posted By: Sallom89
Date Posted: 04/02/2011 at 2:20pm
|
I moved to Roundell Hard 2.1, this rubber gave me all I want on RPB.. speed and spin is killer.. obviously Hurricane 2 is hard to play with -.-! ------------- Member of Wang Hao fan club. Hurricane Hao III FH: Thors RPB: Omega Pro |
Posted By: Krantz
Date Posted: 04/02/2011 at 3:03pm
| For RPB power shots try to not use your wrist during a stroke – just let the racket follow your hand. It will result in a Kreanga style backhand and, with some additional body weight transfer, it really hits like a truck. (His instructions from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywG5kmOCfWE - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywG5kmOCfWE pretty much all apply..) |
Posted By: Sallom89
Date Posted: 04/02/2011 at 3:12pm
With penhold it doesn't feel normal.. you may injure your shoulder.. ------------- Member of Wang Hao fan club. Hurricane Hao III FH: Thors RPB: Omega Pro |
Krantz wrote:Posted By: Krantz
Date Posted: 04/02/2011 at 3:31pm
Well, I dont claim that it is a "proper" way of a penholder - it just works (and i dont know any better method atm, try it btw  ). It is a fluent stroke overall and you don't stress any muscless or bones any more than in your usual forehand swing. IMO there is a much bigger risk of injuring your wrist if you are using it in a strong rpb shot.. |
Posted By: rick_ys_ho
Date Posted: 04/02/2011 at 5:27pm
| Except the penholder grip, RPB is a technique almost the same as handshake backhand, no matter it is about looping or flat hitting using backhand. You can learn from a good handshake player about power generation and positioning when doing RPB stroke, IMHO. |
Posted By: Sallom89
Date Posted: 04/02/2011 at 7:32pm
My wrist was never injured or in pain.. but with RPB doing Krenga's technique your fingers will end up pointing to the ceiling, which 'locks' the shoulder! my coach (shakehander) was trying to teach me RPB with Kenga's technique then normal SH technique, he was giving instructions like you are doing right now.. "with out trying them", but he noticed that this is not the correct way and he ACCEPTED it. ------------- Member of Wang Hao fan club. Hurricane Hao III FH: Thors RPB: Omega Pro |
Posted By: Sallom89
Date Posted: 04/02/2011 at 7:35pm
NO :S I played with a EX Egyptian national team member and he insisted that he can do RPB with SH technique.. I swear that I almost played 10 balls and all of them hit the edge of the blade (center ply).. till he gave up. ------------- Member of Wang Hao fan club. Hurricane Hao III FH: Thors RPB: Omega Pro |
Posted By: Sallom89
Date Posted: 04/02/2011 at 7:44pm
|
Here is a match video of my self.. not the best technique ever, and I improved since that time.. Also having a harder rubber now, my blocking is better and my looping is more consistent. ------------- Member of Wang Hao fan club. Hurricane Hao III FH: Thors RPB: Omega Pro |
Posted By: Krantz
Date Posted: 04/02/2011 at 9:03pm
I would suggest that your trainer should immediately send a proper note to Wang Hao (this famous Chinese TT player) because he obviously doesn’t realize that he’s continually hurting his body (you can try to find differences between Kreanga and Hao backhand in this video btw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoHKvjVO0WY - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoHKvjVO0WY , I’am reffering to Hao’s strokes from 1:20 – and many others too obviously). It’s a shame that a member of a national team cannot use his backhand properly , but I assure you that I (granted that it is not only after few months of playing with penhold) am doing it without problems – and I was trying to explain HOW I’am doing it. |
Posted By: Sallom89
Date Posted: 04/02/2011 at 9:16pm
WHO ARE YOU?! are you better than Wang Hao? how dare you compare injuries to technique on the top level? ok then.. Ma Long technique is flawed because he got injured, Timo boll, Ma Lin.. who else? the list goes on.. those guys play ALOT, any sport at the highest level can make a player suffer from injury. If Wang Hao doesn't use his backhand properly then who does? please cut this silly conversation, it is obvious that you are misleading a guy who is seeking help.. shakehand technique for RPB.. next thing you'll say is very unpredictable I bet.. BTW, I miss seeing you on the top level.  And please show us HOW you are doing it on video, so we can benefit from you.. thanks in advance. ------------- Member of Wang Hao fan club. Hurricane Hao III FH: Thors RPB: Omega Pro |
Posted By: Sallom89
Date Posted: 04/02/2011 at 9:17pm
|
one last note my friend.. on the top level strokes need to be compact so you recover fast, using wrist is obviously faster to recover from. please use common sense.. ------------- Member of Wang Hao fan club. Hurricane Hao III FH: Thors RPB: Omega Pro |
Posted By: Krantz
Date Posted: 04/02/2011 at 9:26pm
|
My bad that i assumed that you can read since you make impression that you can write. And please dont try to teach anybody showing him your "technique".
Good luck in future endeavours.
|
Posted By: Sallom89
Date Posted: 04/02/2011 at 9:47pm
Ok Shakespeare  when you explain how you are doing it, then it does mean explaining your way and therefore teaching it.. at least English is my second language and I don't brag about it.. Pointless discussion, this obviously won't make me a better player.. so I'll step on it and climb to the next level. ------------- Member of Wang Hao fan club. Hurricane Hao III FH: Thors RPB: Omega Pro |
Posted By: rick_ys_ho
Date Posted: 04/02/2011 at 9:54pm
I did not say that a SH player can play RPB or teach RPB. I didn't mean that, because the grip is very different.
OP wants to know how to improve power in RPB stroke and positioning when doing the stroke. The power generation and positioning in RPB is fundamentally the same as SH backhand, that is what I tried to say.
|
Posted By: simon_xuan
Date Posted: 04/03/2011 at 12:01am
|
+1 to non-tacky jap or euro rubber on BH. Sriver is a good one to start with your YE. There are two BH loop variations: side loop like European players, or the underneath center style like Chinese players. See this coaching clip below: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTo8YO4Ckhc - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTo8YO4Ckhc . It talked about both Shakehand and RPB styles in Chinese. I personally think you can borrow from both variations, with more or less wrist movement of your liking. ------------- RPB Rocks! BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
Posted By: shaolinTT
Date Posted: 04/03/2011 at 1:12am
|
Nice instruction video, simon. Thanks. Here is Wang JJ demonstrating his RPB. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_fpbkzp-7o - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_fpbkzp-7o Rogson, you mention "RPB power", but the well "placement" of a RPB shot is important too, probably most important.  |
Posted By: zheyi
Date Posted: 04/03/2011 at 1:16am
|
interesting debates there! why not post both your videos side by side to show your differe nces?
challenge??? maybe i will post mine after yours :P
I know many uses shakehand techniques on rpb, but there's more in rpbs.. e.g. the backspin loops...
|
Posted By: Sallom89
Date Posted: 04/03/2011 at 8:34am
|
I've posted mine and would like to see your technique guys, would be intiresting to see Zheyi's! ------------- Member of Wang Hao fan club. Hurricane Hao III FH: Thors RPB: Omega Pro |
Posted By: zheyi
Date Posted: 04/03/2011 at 9:31am
| yeah.. i be having a double competition soon. will post it here.. so keep bumping this trend :p |
Posted By: Sallom89
Date Posted: 04/03/2011 at 12:11pm
|
hope that we will do :p ------------- Member of Wang Hao fan club. Hurricane Hao III FH: Thors RPB: Omega Pro |
Posted By: simon_xuan
Date Posted: 04/03/2011 at 3:29pm
|
Thanks ShaolinTT. I like the Wang, Jian Jun's new RPB stroke since he moved away from simulating Ryu's Jpen. He seems to be playing YEO as well, not a big swing for his newly developed RPB.
I put up a clip of mine during my practicing with my club mates. I recently practiced more on my strokes against top spin, and now working on more attacking agaist backspin. Of course, you know it's different when you are trying to do RPB during tournament. Anyhow, for your laugh, but also open for suggestions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isIxJV9r0oM - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isIxJV9r0oM ------------- RPB Rocks! BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
Posted By: zheyi
Date Posted: 04/04/2011 at 8:12am
very nice strokes u have! 
|
Posted By: simon_xuan
Date Posted: 04/04/2011 at 11:02pm
|
Thanks Zheyi. I am still working on it. But from EJ perspective, I did stick with Yasaka blades a lot. My recent favorite bh rubber is Donic Barracuda.
Oh, back to RPB power. I think it pays to notice the position you rip the ball back. Usually I feel more at control when returning loops at top of the bounce or a little bit earlier than the top, if that make sense. At this point, I can borrow whatever is coming toward me and double it with my forward stroke. At the point, I still use RPB to push the opponents to return weak balls and finish the point with my forehand. But that's more tactics than strokes. But I have to agree RPB for penhold, at least to me, if not as powerful as shakehander at the same level. Like ShaolinTT said, the placement is a art. ------------- RPB Rocks! BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
Posted By: Rogson
Date Posted: 04/05/2011 at 12:01am
|
Thanks for the videos, you got a nice form simon, I wonder whether I can use it as a guideline After digging and thinking fora bit, it looks like my lack of power comes from only using the wrist and a small part of the forehand or only using the wrist(most of the times).... Placement is very important as well but when my opponent extends the game into a rally I end up only lobbing or blocking if meh opponent goes BH happymode. ------------- Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive Forehand DHS Hurricane 3 Backhand DHS Hurricane 2 |
Posted By: simon_xuan
Date Posted: 04/05/2011 at 10:59am
|
H2 may not be the best rubber for you on the BH. You might have to hit it real hard to "hit through" the DHS sponge in order to generate enough spin. Plus the arc is low, and you may have difficulty to clear the net. It might be the reason you ended up resorting to lobbing and defense. Understanding the RPB weakness, I used more spinny and bouncy rubber on the BH. Please note, I am only talking about TT lover and amateur level. How professional do their trick is beyond the discussion. Have fun.
------------- RPB Rocks! BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
Posted By: chris.b40
Date Posted: 04/05/2011 at 11:13am
+1 ------------- AVALOX BLUE THUNDER |
Posted By: Rogson
Date Posted: 04/05/2011 at 12:20pm
|
According to reviews, H2 has a low-throw angle so this MAY be the reason I am scared of using RPB and resorting to block/lob. Will try twiddling my paddle to see how it works, I didn't really think equipment affected one's technique in a noticeable level.... and if it doesn't work, time to switch techniques (ugh) Thanks for that, will try it as soon as I am able to. ------------- Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive Forehand DHS Hurricane 3 Backhand DHS Hurricane 2 |
Posted By: simon_xuan
Date Posted: 04/05/2011 at 3:10pm
|
Trust me, the equipment makes the different. You need to mix and match until you found your gear is "tuned up" properly. Then you probably don't want change the setup, or you will break the balancing dynamics.
------------- RPB Rocks! BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
Posted By: Sallom89
Date Posted: 04/05/2011 at 6:22pm
|
Today I was Ripping some crazy RPB topspins, If I keep that form then I'll record it! ------------- Member of Wang Hao fan club. Hurricane Hao III FH: Thors RPB: Omega Pro |
Posted By: sweetstrike
Date Posted: 04/06/2011 at 7:31pm
|
Posted By: Penhold_Boy
Date Posted: 04/06/2011 at 10:39pm
|
Wow, there was some amazing RPB shots.
------------- ------------------ Current Setup: Grip - Penhold Blade: Ma Lin Extra Offensive FH: Adidas P7 BH: Nittaku Hammond Pro Beta Old Setup: FH: DHS Skyline 3 NEO BH: Butterfly Sriver G3 FX |
Posted By: simon_xuan
Date Posted: 04/06/2011 at 10:41pm
|
I tried Thor on the fh to replace my TG2 and H3 and really liked it. I do have to hit into the sponge more to generate the loop, but that's a good habit to build up anyway. I never tried Blitz at BH for RPB. Is it grippy only and half sticky/tacky?
------------- RPB Rocks! BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
Posted By: sweetstrike
Date Posted: 04/15/2011 at 3:54pm
| Blit'z is very grippy and it has a higher throw than Macro Era. The throw and spin generation is pretty close to T05. The sponge feels slightly softer and bouncier than T05 and the topsheet is more fragile. Never had a chance to use Thors so can't compare to that. |
Posted By: zikmir
Date Posted: 04/19/2012 at 7:36pm
| Hi, i mean no offence, but its hard to watch people with good equipment not playing or having the wrong technique ! Please if you must, bend lower, the whole point is to be at a level like a 10 year old kid, plus your foot work is just not there, u can watch some video of how to hop side ways or do cross work for reaching the corners of the table ! and may i suggest not using your wrist and keeping it locked. Im just saying all this to see people improve, i my self am a beginner, using Ma lin Extra off /DHs 3 hurricane neo 2.15/ and friendship all rounder 1.8 on back. |
Posted By: raphyelrosby
Date Posted: 04/19/2012 at 9:45pm
|
I think instead of arguing over differences, everyone should try to figure out what is best for their game. I use a lot of wrist for my RPB and it allows me to move around to initiate a forehand attack easier than a large arm movement. Also if you watch Xu Xin, he uses a lot of wrist action whereas Ma Long used more arm as he is one of those who helped develop the shot. I would bet that Xu Xin has a good shakehand backhand (as I do) because that's how I learned my backhand. I played shakehand for about 6 months, and hated the forehand, but it helped develop my backhand. There is good and bad to both techniques. Why not make it a real discussion instead of an argument. I swing more upwards when opening a rally on my forehand, but I can recover, so its not a hindrance, but most would say go forward. Its all about your comfort and your style. I have videos posted in the video section of my technique for RPB and honestly I think it is going to be a bigger challenge to loop backspin without the wrist snap.
------------- Xiom Hayabusa ZX, Sigma II pro on FH, Vega Elite BH. |
Posted By: Loop40mm
Date Posted: 04/20/2012 at 11:30am
|
I have played shakehand for eleven years and played RPB for 6 months. My RPB has gotten better than my shakehand backhand. Shakehand backhand has more power. To me, there is more finesse in RPB. Given the opportunity, when I use my left leg, rotate the body and snap the arm, I can still generate power. There seems to be more opportunities for finesse for me. I have two RPB top spins. 1. Bend low, paddle horizontal, elbow close to body so wrist is at 90 degrees. This is not powerful but it is a finesse stroke. 2. Similar to shakehand backhand. Wrist is used when I return serves to my middle. I consider this a finesse stroke. I have not gotten to the stage to generate enough power, but the spin of the ball generates enough velocity. ------------- Stiga Ebenholz NCT V FH Tenergy 05 BH DHS Tin Arc 3 |
Posted By: V-Griper
Date Posted: 04/20/2012 at 11:54am
You are right. We can have different solutions to the same problem. In general I like to use drive shots to overcome spins which usually involves more torso/shoulder rotation. I don't use a lifting motion, Which puts more spin on the ball, because I don't like the high arc and subsequent high bounce. It is also slower. The downside to this is that I have a smaller margin of error and thus miss a slightly higher percentage of my shots. The upside is that I either win the point outright or get a defensive return. It also has a "shock and awe" effect whereby opponents won't take the risk of hitting it to my backhand for fear of losing the point outright, even if my conversion rate is low. Xu Xin seems to entice people to hit his flip return so he can set up his attack so it definitely works this way as well. I use an unconventional grip but my bh is much more similar to a ph rpb than a sh bh.
|
Posted By: raphyelrosby
Date Posted: 04/20/2012 at 12:24pm
|
Yep!!!! I have that problem of missing my opening loops where the trajectory is very low. By lifting the ball athe backnahd is a little I am confident of getting it over the net. Also a lot of the top guys are tending to loop a little higher as well. I think the 40 mm ball and all rule changes have changed the way you have to approach the game. Back in the days of KTS and those guys, Waldner had a higher arc at that time. The big thing for me right now is not get too anxious to finish the point. We all wish we could finish the point with one hit, but the ball just doesn't go as fast as it used to. I think that's why RSM isn't winning like he used to, because he often ends up defending because he may not have the opportunity to step around, and his opponents force him to to do a weaker shot that can be manipulated easier. Anyways I have found Xu Xin's strategy to be very useful. I specifically cross the backhand loop with outturning spin, to force a return to my center-backhand, and step around and wait to attack. I can catch it right off the bounce down the line with ease, and many times its not contested. I have adopted this tactic and it works great. Another reason I use a higher arc is because it gives me an extra second to get in position, at which time I can attack the ball earlier on the bounce and use a less powerful safe shot that is difficult to block. That's what Ma Lin did so well, he would attack so quickly that he often hit the ball at medium speed and was not taking the risk of missing. ------------- Xiom Hayabusa ZX, Sigma II pro on FH, Vega Elite BH. |
Posted By: raphyelrosby
Date Posted: 04/20/2012 at 12:25pm
|
**Look at the first point** It is a very good strategy. ------------- Xiom Hayabusa ZX, Sigma II pro on FH, Vega Elite BH. |
Posted By: V-Griper
Date Posted: 04/20/2012 at 1:19pm
|
Hit the nail on the head the first time. I have noticed this a lot in his play. Here is an example of the more attacking rpb of Wang hao. Points 3 and 4 and bunch after that. |
Posted By: cherC
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 12:56pm
the positioning is the most important thing in TT, because if you are positioning the wrong way its more then likely to miss the shot. depending on where you are in and on the table. If your in the middleof your left table then you just have to stand towards your right more...... Because ping pong is a fast game you dont have time to turn your body for your RPB. and by the way sense RPB is slower you`ll just have to train. Or you can try blocking the ball for you to improve on your forehand. CHER  ------------- Name:Cher Lee Started playing Table tennis: Apirl 13-2011 Blade: Ma Lin Extra OFF Black Rubber: Hurricane 2 Red Rubber: Moon |
Posted By: Loop40mm
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 2:11pm
|
If you are having problem with positioning, it is a matter of how you do your RPB strokes. I have noticed many traditional penholders try to hit RPB from the left side. In the beginning, try learning to lower your stance, with the paddle in front of you. I actually suggest closer to your eye level in the beginning to block the ball back. I typically do this in warmups. Though I am only blocking, because of the angle of the paddle, top spins are generated. I have a tendency to keep my left foot back when I use RPB to loop. My coach told me that was not necessary in every situation. Having the left foot back is a bigger loop situation. I imagine you are trying a bigger loop so that’s why you need to lean slightly to the right. In many situations, I needed to keep my left foot slightly in front to hit with RPB, including looping. I have seen my coach doing the RPB off the bounce of the ball with the ball in front on the right center(My coach is left handed). Leaning is not needed. For us right handers, that should be left center. Practising blocking against loopers has greatly improved my RPB stroke. There is no time to lean but to put the paddle in front to block the ball with RPB. I then realized I could use the wrist to control the spin and the direction of the ball. The technique is such that the elbow is tight to the body, the paddle is horizontal with wrist at close to 90 degrees and the arm is moved forward to hit the ball. Gradually I learned to bend the wrist backward, while maintaining paddle in horizontal position, before hitting. I think this technique can be carried over to the similar stroke my coach used to loop the ball off the bounce. My coach has the quick arm snap to create the spin. Obviously the angle of the wrist is no longer 90 degrees. The stance is higher to allow space to snap the arm forward. ------------- Stiga Ebenholz NCT V FH Tenergy 05 BH DHS Tin Arc 3 |
Posted By: decoi
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 6:18pm
|
for power do what simon does.. forget about trying to generate spin. just have the needed angle and drive the ball the rest should be taken care of.. using a slow rubber and something soft'ish helps. i found it a lot easier to control the ball with 729 focus 3 Snipe than Haifu shark or stiga calibra lt. and what loop40 said practicing against heavy loopers helps. which is when you can start learning how to punch through the spin( like ma lin would do with TPB) and use that knowledge to moove your opponent around the table first loop send it to his bh then next one deep to Fh or deep into Fh on the first one if he stepped around for the first loop also helps when the ball is center of your body and you must play from the body or else its going to be weak and chance of missing the ball ------------- Blade: DHS Hurricane Hao FH: TG3 BS BH: Xiom Omega 4 Aisa Blade: Hurricane Hao 2 (656) Fh: Dhs Gold Arc 3 Bh: Stiga Tour H http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhee |
Posted By: Imago
Date Posted: 05/30/2012 at 3:32am
For SH, it is really not necessary or at least not essential. For RPB, however, opening the body angle is a great accessory to success.
|