Palatinus OSP Expert ALL+ Review
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Topic: Palatinus OSP Expert ALL+ Review
Posted By: icontek
Subject: Palatinus OSP Expert ALL+ Review
Date Posted: 05/06/2011 at 12:04am
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DISCLAIMER: I am a very satisfied OSP Virtuoso user. July will be the 1 year mark with the blade. After buying more than 30 blades in a 10 year span, I can't seem to EJ my way away from it. But several weeks ago, I was lucky enough to receive an Expert to review. It's an ALL+ looping blade, and having owned several blades in that category and having spent a year or two with the Avalox BT550 (a similar design) as my primary blade , I was curious to see what Palatinus brought to the table for a thinner 5 ply looping blade. SPECS: The blade I received was as follows: 5.42mm thickness (flexes with a big pop) 89.2g weight (feels lighter due to neutral balance) 160 x 151 (longer than average head) Square Straight handle (medium thickness, on the thinner side) Since then, I've had a chance to try it at several practices as well as in for fun matches. Knowing my own technique limitations, I've also allowed several, much more accomplished loopers (US1600 and US1700) to try it. It's a looping blade, so why not, right? I figured that it made more sense for me to block against it (because I am used to blocking their loops with their normal gear). This first draft of the review reflects my first week with it. 1st take Hurricane 3 Neo 2.1 FH, Mambo H 1.8mm BH -The short game and passive play and excellent feedback of the Virtuoso design are there. The blade makes placement on softer balls very easy. Pushing, blocking short, all very comfortable. Feels like an ALL blade. -As expected, it's easier to produce consistent, point winning topspin from both sides. Doing FH/FH and BH/BH topspin drills with this blade was a treat, as it balances very good control with a huge selection of gears. -But mid distance topspins are where this blade excels. On bigger strokes there is a strong sense that the blade "loads up" before kicking the ball out. Unlike the Avalox BT550 however, which seems to get a bit squirrely when flat hitting any further than the mid-table powerzone, the Expert seems to maintain a solid feel and is more predictable. And speed at mid distance feels more like an OFF- blade than ALL+. After spending an hour playing matches with it, I let a US1600 looper/fisher/lobber/allrounder (who normally uses a Stiga Allround with Juic Scramble, a Mark V clone) try it. He mixes brush loops with drives, and I noticed that his loopdrives were more powerful and packed significantly more "wallop". The topspin dive after the bounce was much, much more pronounced. And I was more likely to make errors blocking. The middle gear (somewhere between a drive and a brush) was what scared me though; his consistency and placement skyrocketed, while maintaining a good deal of the power of the drives. As might be expected, his brush loops were similar in spin to what he produces with his normal setup. Spinny, but not fast. He wanted the blade after just a few minutes of it. But this one is not for sale :) UPDATE: 2nd take (blade in the hands of a US1700+ 2 winged looper) This player usually uses a DONIC Epox OFF with Vario, a fairly stiff blade with softer rubbers. He plays 5-10 feet off the table, loops and counterloops from both wings and plays a control game. I put a set of Banda Rossa Soft 2.0mm on it. Comments were as follows: "As I long as I was aggressive, I controlled the point" "Attacking and counterattacking were good, plenty of power from mid distance" He didn't like the blade/combo for defense/passive play. Being used to a stiffer setup, the flex of the blade+soft rubbers caused consistency problems. Recap: If you like flexible 5 plies with limba outers, and want to be able to attack from mid distance, this is a very good blade. If you are used to stiff or hard feeling blades over the table, your control will suffer. ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Replies:
Posted By: Peter C
Date Posted: 05/06/2011 at 1:48pm
| I'll be interested to see what the two winged looper thinks of the blade. |
Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: 05/06/2011 at 2:31pm
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Icontek, now you see why I switched to this blade? ILya ------------- BTY Mazunov ST Dignics 05 |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 06/05/2011 at 10:39am
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Updated OP- Who is the next tester and I will send it on? ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Posted By: Tinykin_2
Date Posted: 06/05/2011 at 10:51am
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89.2g weight (feels lighter due to neutral balance)
That was a significant comment. I have tried several 'small-maker' blades over the years. Balance is what lets down the inexperienced guys.
------------- Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V |
Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 06/05/2011 at 12:19pm
The datasheet says [balance: head]  ------------- Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V |
Tinykin_2 wrote:Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 06/05/2011 at 6:20pm
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Otoh, balance is relative and also depends on the rubbers used for the test and the blades one is used to... ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: tomas.gt
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 3:12am
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Expert with T05 both sides: quite flexible, but not so much. I would rate is as off- blade with control of all+ blades. At the table, I felt it might go too far, but it never did. For allround and control offensive game, it acts predictible and nicely accelerates the ball. Good for every stroke. Feel is little bit harder(not soft), light vibration, but nothing crazy like stiga OC series have. Much much better then stiga blades (OC, AC) in all aspects, esp. feeling is soo much better. I found T05 quite hard for the expert, but still playable.
Larger head makes Expert look massive.
for me, OSP blades have the most amazing feel among all wooden blades. Too bad that thin blades does not suit my FH style. ------------- Kokutaku Bishu no.1 ST - H3N red , BTfly Spinart 2.1 black |
Posted By: TSuBaSa
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 4:01am
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Less vibration but better feel? Can you explain it? Because I hate tbs- alc kind of stuff because there is no vibration and I cant feel the ball. With Exert there is less vibration but more feeling? ------------- Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 4:59am
OhOh,  I've just ordered my second Virtuoso for some rubber testings. Very satisfied with it. But after all the comments about Expert I'm highly tempted to try it out. 
I know what he means. There are good vibrations and bad. I've played blades with very unpleasant vibrations. They were very disturbing and gave false information about the ball to the hand. You can imho not compare hard and stiff blades like ALC with flexible blades like Expert. Stiff blades do not vibrate as flexible blades. It is high craftmanship to eliminate the unpleasant vibrations and emphasize the good vibrations from a flexible blade. ------------- Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V |
Posted By: TSuBaSa
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 5:12am
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Well I'm playing with oc cr and there is no "bad" vibrations at all. I can feel the ball very well. I just wanted to understand why expert is so much better than oc series. ------------- Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
Posted By: barnie
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 5:18am
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From my experience If you play more on the table, the smaller headed Expert plays better. I have 2 Experts, sanded them to 157 x 150 and 158 x 150 and for me it improves noticeably. Stiffer and less head heavy. I play on the table and smaller head size suits me better. ------------- Yasaka Silver All Wood, ST FH - Rhyzm max BH - Tenergy 05 max |
Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 5:24am
Hmm, I think it's hard to describe. I have not played Expert, too. But I know why the Virtuoso is much better than other woods, for me. But it can be only experienced. ------------- Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 9:04am
Clearly the Expert was designed for rubbers like T05, but also pairs amazingly well with Hurricanes - the balance of the blade with heavy rubbers is still head heavy, but not overwhelmingly so. With light rubbers, it is more neutral.
As someone else described, the Expert's vibrations are clear feedback. The OC's give a lot of feedback, but some of it is "noise". Imagine the difference between speaking clearly in a quiet room (Expert) and someone yelling into your ear at a crowded pub (OC). In both cases, you can hear the message; but one is more distinct. The ALC blades and many other composites sound like people whispering in a windy forest.
If I were to compare the two, I would say that for mid distance play, the Expert is more powerful than OC due to increased flex/catapult. In play over the table, if can feel slower than OC on smaller strokes, closer to Stiga Allround Classic. If I weren't married to my Virtuoso, and I played more mid-distance I would buy the Expert in a heartbeat. ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Posted By: tomas.gt
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 9:13am
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arylate makes the blade dead. It unnaturally dampens vibrations of all kind.
for stiga - I suspect spruce layer to be responsible for all that crap. Playing with OC, OC oversize is annoying. Every hit is a pain. I came accross OC blades, that felt like metal plate. I admit that not all OC blades are the same. You may be the lucky one. ------------- Kokutaku Bishu no.1 ST - H3N red , BTfly Spinart 2.1 black |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 9:27am
| It's not the spruce because I've bought lots of spruce based blades lately and not all of them are vibrators like the OC in fact the only other one that's like it and may not even be made from spruce (but something very similar) is the HK. The YEO is crisp and tuned like the engine note of a V12 Ferrari :0, huge difference |
Posted By: TSuBaSa
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 9:56am
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Thank you all for so much information. They are really halping me. But its highly subjective right? You may think oc cr's vibrations are too much and an other guy may think there is not enough feedback while playing with virtuoso.
I should play with expert and virtuoso than I can make my mind... ------------- Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
Posted By: speaquinox
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 11:57am
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You can try both next week. Come to fbvtt one evening. Drinks one me LOL. Long time no see.
------------- Innerforce ALC, Glayzer / Rozena |
Posted By: TSuBaSa
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 3:13pm
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I have to go to Adana this week. I dont know when I can go to fbvtt but I'll call you when I can... ------------- Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 06/08/2011 at 9:04am
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Who is next in line to test this blade? ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Posted By: mmerkel
Date Posted: 06/08/2011 at 1:56pm
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Was there a list? Can I get my name on the end of that list?
------------- #1 RL Balance -Bluefire M2 -Acuda S2 #2 RL Avalanche#2 -Bluefire M2 -Sigma Europe #3 Primorac -Boost TP -Magna TC |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 06/23/2011 at 11:15pm
:) Mmerk - pm me your address and i'll send you the expert :) after you're done it goes to arg0. ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Posted By: Imago
Date Posted: 06/24/2011 at 1:29am
OCCR has good vibrations. Tulpe 702 has too much vibration for the feel to be called pleasant.
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Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 06/24/2011 at 1:43am
| Imago there is a chain of shops called good vibrations, but I never seen a OC CR in there |
Posted By: Imago
Date Posted: 06/24/2011 at 1:55am
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Then you have to try this Tulpe 702 |
Posted By: mmerkel
Date Posted: 06/24/2011 at 5:40am
PM Sent ------------- #1 RL Balance -Bluefire M2 -Acuda S2 #2 RL Avalanche#2 -Bluefire M2 -Sigma Europe #3 Primorac -Boost TP -Magna TC |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 06/24/2011 at 1:18pm
icontek.....a few quick questions: 1. Did you find that the Virtuoso L you have was more controllable with close table play compared to the Expert? 2. How was looping and lifting under spin ability between these 2 blades...any big difference? 3. Did you feel any difference in throw height between these 2 blades? I am almost ready to pull the trigger on one of these blades, figuring out head size for either one is also hard for me to decide on.....maybe a M in Expert and L in Virtuoso I am starting to think. Thanks for any further info besides what you have reported already. ------------- |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 06/24/2011 at 6:32pm
Answers: 1) They are very similar for close to table play. They both have awesome "low gears" for great push control (short/deep) and both play over the table topspins easily for openings. Because they are not super-fast with small strokes, you can often attack over the table without fear of the ball going long. The expert throws a little higher I think as it flexes a bit more (at least at the sizes I have - original virtuoso, which is now the L size I think). 2) I'd have to give lifting underspin to the flex of the Expert. Bigger, safer loops that you can make faster and faster by attacking more forward. However, for flat smashing balls that are 7" high and push or dead, you can't beat the Virtuoso... 3) Expert throws a little higher I think. Bear in mind that I didn't have the same rubber on each; but the Expert was fabulous with plain old H3, having both a slower gear and a faster mid distance loop gear than my Virtuoso with H3NP. I used Mambo H on the BH 1.8mm and absolutely loved it on that blade, reminded me of a much spinnier Mendo. Normally I prefer softer sponges (like Mendo Energy or Acuda S3/Donic F3) but this strange rubber paired really well with the Expert's flex. Not a fan of the straight handle, however; I think the Virtuoso in FL is actually more comfy than my 6.2mm clipper Legend handle from the 90's. ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Posted By: Klaus123
Date Posted: 06/24/2011 at 7:00pm
| Im interested in an OSP blade, and on the website, there is no name, no address, no e-mail, no tel. number. Before we are talking about "service" the least thing i expect is a name and contact address. Jeez. |
Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 06/25/2011 at 4:41am
You can contact Laszlo Peli via [email protected] ------------- Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V |
Posted By: mmerkel
Date Posted: 06/27/2011 at 7:58pm
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Good thing the Canada Post strike is over...would be a shame to have it sitting at a sorting station for weeks. ------------- #1 RL Balance -Bluefire M2 -Acuda S2 #2 RL Avalanche#2 -Bluefire M2 -Sigma Europe #3 Primorac -Boost TP -Magna TC |
Posted By: TSuBaSa
Date Posted: 06/29/2011 at 4:12pm
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Thanks to speaquinox I've played with expert today. Its faster than I thought. Faster than offensive cr and a bit slower than nittaku acoustic. Some members sad that its good for hardbat and now I know why. Block, hit or drive there is fantastic feedback. You know where the ball is going to land. That makes you confident. I'm very very impressed with that blade. Vibrations are short but clear. You feel the ball but blade it self doesnt vibrate much. Dwell time is good but not that long like offensive cr. And throw angle is medium I think. Trajectory is flatter than offensive cr for sure. The only downside of this blade is throw angle. I like long dwell time/high throw angle blades. And expert offers less dwell with medium throw angle. ( dont get me wrong its a flexible, long dwell time blade but not that flexible like offensive cr) But damn! ball feeling is superb! I really like the feedback. I'm going to play with virtouso and than I'll decide... ------------- Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 07/07/2011 at 10:29pm
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I would like to get on the list to try the OSP Expert test blade. Let me know, thanks.
------------- |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 07/08/2011 at 1:45am
| There is no need to test this blade ihmo, it's the best looping blade that exists for tesnors, just don't buy one yet because I'm waiting to get my own first |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 07/08/2011 at 1:53pm
I'm a little confused by your comments. You say to get one then you say to wait until you get yours? Also, where is the OSP Expert test blade now?  ------------- |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 07/08/2011 at 3:04pm
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Posted to Merkel last week. Should have it soon
------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 07/08/2011 at 3:29pm
| To those who have ordered from osp, what is the ordering experience like? Do they offer assistance with customizing the blade for your specific game? I ask because there are lots of handle options on the site, but can't order yet while everything is suspended. |
Posted By: speaquinox
Date Posted: 07/08/2011 at 5:10pm
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Customization is extra $. Though you can choose among many handle types, headsize (for Virtuoso and V+) and FH BH orientation for the standard price. ------------- Innerforce ALC, Glayzer / Rozena |
Posted By: mmerkel
Date Posted: 07/08/2011 at 5:51pm
Not here yet as of today....I will post in here as soon as I get it. ------------- #1 RL Balance -Bluefire M2 -Acuda S2 #2 RL Avalanche#2 -Bluefire M2 -Sigma Europe #3 Primorac -Boost TP -Magna TC |
Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 07/09/2011 at 8:11am
Laszlo will help you to get the best custom blade via mail contact. Wait 'til 25th July, than they'll be back. ------------- Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V |
Posted By: mmerkel
Date Posted: 07/12/2011 at 9:12pm
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Got the blade in the mail today. Tonight I will slap on some rubbers and I should be able to give it a first go this week. I will put on a Vega Pro on the fh....not sure about the bh yet, maybe a Mercury II 33*. ------------- #1 RL Balance -Bluefire M2 -Acuda S2 #2 RL Avalanche#2 -Bluefire M2 -Sigma Europe #3 Primorac -Boost TP -Magna TC |
Posted By: mmerkel
Date Posted: 07/14/2011 at 9:18pm
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My first hit last night with this blade. I really liked how it paired with the Mercury II on my bh, very well controlled, good bh loop, good feel, good speed when needed. However, since I play with XVE on my bh, I had some issue with popping up pushes. My only concern with the blade is the balance with the straight handle. For my taste it is too head heavy and the handle too thin. The forehand combination of Vega Pro did not fit as well for me. Everything was fine counter hitting, blocking, even pushing, but looping was not very good. My loops went three feet past the table on every hit. I can't believe that the throw of this combination is so much higher than my set up with Barracuda on Acro. My usual set up feels quite a bit faster in the low gears. Next time I will give it a more graduated approach and do a pure fh looping drill going from controlled slow loops to fast loop kills. There seems to be a point where the speed takes a big jump and for me becomes too fast for my liking. I had a similar experience with Virtuoso and Hexer+ on my fh...great up to middle gear and then the speed becomes too non-linear. More next week.... ------------- #1 RL Balance -Bluefire M2 -Acuda S2 #2 RL Avalanche#2 -Bluefire M2 -Sigma Europe #3 Primorac -Boost TP -Magna TC |
Posted By: doraemon
Date Posted: 07/15/2011 at 1:32am
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Well, this is always the case when you play with flexible blade. The low gear is slow, but as you step up, the speed steps up non-linearly (can't say exponentially). So with big swing, the speed can be very fast due to catapult effect. That's why slow flexible blade offers more dynamic compared to rigid carbon blade. |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 07/15/2011 at 1:45am
| Hurry up 25th already :/ |
Posted By: mmerkel
Date Posted: 07/15/2011 at 7:52am
Back to the topic. My main comparison right now are my two most recent blades, OSP Virtuoso and Xiom Acro (6ply all wood). Both of them have a flared handle. I will put the Expert on the scale with my current set up tonight and see if I can get some acceptable pictures. ------------- #1 RL Balance -Bluefire M2 -Acuda S2 #2 RL Avalanche#2 -Bluefire M2 -Sigma Europe #3 Primorac -Boost TP -Magna TC |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 6:44am
| Does anyone in the know have info on if the shop is going to be back online on the 25th? or not |
Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 9:51am
They are on vacation, why should they not come back? On Monday we'll know.
------------- Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 10:35am
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While I don't think I have very efficient mechanics (how much physical work I have to do to generate pace or spin, and how exhausted I get attacking) so I'm always shocked when I hear people call the Expert a slow blade. I have a couple of regular opponents who's forehand's have that smooth and efficient "whip effect" when they smash or drive - and believe me, the Expert was not a a slow blade in their hands... It's certainly slow for passive shots like blocking, pushing, lobbing and (my favorite) drop shots. However, for backhands, I can see how it might require big stroke - a more Kreanga-esque motion to get to that killing gear and engage the catapult. So forgive me if I've said this before, but the Expert's flex reminds me of classic 15-20 year old Avalox P500's (but even more pronounced) that have a good over the table game, and a wicked gear for drives and smashes. ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 12:04pm
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zzz, I see the custom blade section was closed because of health reasons so I thought maybe thats part of the reason for the break, anyway I hope everyone at osp is feeling well and rested after the break
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Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 07/23/2011 at 12:16pm
Yes, I saw it, too. But this message has been there longer before the one at ospblades.com. Hopefully Laszlo did only forget to remove it. Contact is possible via [email protected] ------------- Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V |
Posted By: mmerkel
Date Posted: 07/26/2011 at 9:56pm
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I had another session with the Expert and have to say this blade is NOT for me. Although I really like it in the low gears, I don't like the flexibility and the associated kick and whip effect. Service and short game The feeling and control of this blade in these two categories is exceptional. Pushes are easy to vary and place. Serves are spinny and controlled and easy to execute in variation. Counter hitting and blocking I liked the way it feels and performs here. Good directional stability and control. Fairly big sweet spot speed control. Paired well in this category with Vega Pro and Mercury II 35. Looping Worked well on spinny loops but was hard for me to control in power loops. Might be partly due to the head heavy feeling of the blade with the SQST handle that felt too thin and light for me. Overall it is a good blade that is just not for me…maybe with a flared handle that puts a bit more weight back towards the handle it would suite me better. So far I have not found a blade that fits my requirements of control and linearity in the All/All+ range better than the Xiom Acro. The blade is now on its way to Rich. Hope it fits you better than me. ------------- #1 RL Balance -Bluefire M2 -Acuda S2 #2 RL Avalanche#2 -Bluefire M2 -Sigma Europe #3 Primorac -Boost TP -Magna TC |
Posted By: TSuBaSa
Date Posted: 07/27/2011 at 1:54am
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Thats weird! Everybody says there is whip effect, head heaviness, flexybility etc. But I've played with an expert ( same head size with virtuoso which is like 157mmx 150mm) and it wasnt like that... Head size effects a lot of things I guess... ------------- Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
Posted By: Peter C
Date Posted: 07/27/2011 at 10:46am
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mmerkel What makes the Expert such a good blade; is the flexibilty inherent within its design. It allows a player with the necessary skills required, to put the blade face under various rates of torque and the subsequent whiplash action, when the torque is released; makes it easier to vary your spins and speed, once you've learnt how to control it. It's one of the reasons why good players playing with flexible blades; are capable of disrupting the game of players, whose game is based on rhythm; by getting them out of their comfort zone, with variations in spin, speed and placement. As a flexible blade behaves differently to a stiffer blade when under torque; it takes time and practice to develop the extra skills required, to play consistently and instinctively with this type of blade. Whilst flexible blades aren't the best choice for some players; I personally feel that it's still worth taking the time to learn how to play with a flexible blade, as it might help make you get a better understanding of how they work and how opponents can use that to their advantage. Having said that; some players will never develop the skills required to master a flexible blade and they are better off playing with a stiffer blade; which they find more predictable. |
Posted By: mmerkel
Date Posted: 07/27/2011 at 11:31am
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I wonder how much the handle adds to this effect. I find the handle to be very thin, thus creating a head heavy blade that seems to enhance the whip effect. Have you played with the Xiom Acro? It is by no means a stiff blade and I am perfectly capable of creating variations in spin and speed with that. Also, you seem to suggest that all players that prefer stiff blades possess less skill than players that use flexible blades...Really??? No words..... ------------- #1 RL Balance -Bluefire M2 -Acuda S2 #2 RL Avalanche#2 -Bluefire M2 -Sigma Europe #3 Primorac -Boost TP -Magna TC |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 07/27/2011 at 11:52am
| It's weird because for every reason you don't like the Expert mmerkel, those are the reasons it's the best blade I've used and I would say best by a very long way. I have almost 30 blades and I don't feel like any of them are more than 70% as good as the expert |
Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: 07/27/2011 at 12:10pm
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It is indeed an interesting observation. I found that the Expert and Virtuoso are probably the best European-style blades made in the open era (with Asian-style ones I really Darker hinoki blades). I originally tried Virtuoso and Expert in an attempt to find something modern that closely replicates the feel of those old Stiga Allround Bengtsson blades I like so much. I have to admit that they were very close. In the meantime, I was able to get my hands on a couple more old stigas, so I do not need the OSP blades any more (with three of those old Bengtsson blades I am set for a while). However, had I not found these, I would have likely happily stayed with the OSP Expert. ILya ------------- BTY Mazunov ST Dignics 05 |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 07/27/2011 at 12:18pm
| Ilya, when you are ready to sell that Expert just send me a message and I'll give you my email address and we can work something out |
Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: 07/27/2011 at 1:03pm
I am ready to sell it, but I keep on forgetting to snap a couple of pictures. I'll put a reminder for myself to do it tonight. ILya ------------- BTY Mazunov ST Dignics 05 |
Posted By: Peter C
Date Posted: 07/27/2011 at 1:57pm
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mmerkel You could be right about the straight handle playing it's part; as I remember playing with a straight handle n a Dawei Genote A, which was uncomfortable to play with and it did initially adversely affect my judgement of the blade. I solved the problem by putting a wrap on the blade and after that, it felt a lot more comfortable in the hand and just as importantly, I also realised it was a good blade too. Dawei subsequently amended the handle, after other customers complained it was uncomfortable. I have the anatomical handle on my two Experts and that's a really comfortable handle to play with. With regard to the Xiom Acro, I can't comment on that blade as I don't know anyone locally who has one; but i do think it's stablemate; the Fuga, is a good blade. Am I implying that players using stiff players are less skillful? No, definitely not. Learning to play consistently with any blade, requires you to learn a skill set that will help you get the best out of that blade. Different types of blades will require slightly varied skill sets, dependent on rubber choice too. My point was the skill set required for playing consistently with a stiff blade, will be slightly different to the skill set required to play consistently with a flexible blade; because of the way each blade plays. |
Posted By: mmerkel
Date Posted: 07/27/2011 at 3:18pm
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Thanks for the clarification Peter C. I own a Virtuoso and have that in a flared handle. The balance on the Expert is definitely shifted towards the head with the straight handle and I did not experience that with the Virtuoso (before the S and L versions etc.). I was looking for something a little slower than the Virtuoso, but can't say I found it in the Expert. The feel is there, the touch is there the kick/whip/flex seems to be greater in the Expert, so top end of the speed range, I don't find the Expert noticeably slower than the Virtuoso, but rather a bit faster. I still think that OSP makes great blades, but at this time just not for me. ------------- #1 RL Balance -Bluefire M2 -Acuda S2 #2 RL Avalanche#2 -Bluefire M2 -Sigma Europe #3 Primorac -Boost TP -Magna TC |
Posted By: Yason
Date Posted: 07/29/2011 at 12:27pm
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Can somebody compare Nexy Color with OSP Expert in terms of control and speed? Thanks!! ------------- Nexy Color, Palio Blitz(FH), TSP Triple Spin Chop (BH) |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 07/29/2011 at 12:39pm
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Yason, I will soon have the Test Expert to compare with the Test Color I am trying now. Both are ST handles. I will let you know later when I get the Expert and have a few hits with it. In the mean time, I'm sure several others here can answer your question now. ------------- |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 08/05/2011 at 3:02pm
OK.....I have the Expert now that mmerkle sent in the mail to me.  I will glue up some rubbers and have a test hit Sunday morning with a friend. I will be using Rakza 7 Soft max on both sides for first test rubbers. More soon.......------------- |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 08/05/2011 at 3:12pm
| Good luck! |
Posted By: TSuBaSa
Date Posted: 08/05/2011 at 5:20pm
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couple of days ago I have placed an order for a virtuoso st sq and I didn't get any reply from ospblades. Something wrong? ------------- Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 08/05/2011 at 6:03pm
They maybe backed up and too busy because they were on vacation. Give them some time I would think all is ok. ------------- |
Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 08/05/2011 at 7:52pm
Usually you'll get an answer within a day. Last Sunday I've ordered an Expert and the order confirmation came within an hour. ------------- Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 08/05/2011 at 11:02pm
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My email came within a day or two also. But not everyone that works their own business like to work or answer emails everyday since that is the whole point of doing things yourself in your own time. They will get back to you in a couple days I'm sure. If not then email again :). zzz, good to see you ordered a Expert! you'll have to let me know how you feel about it compared to the Virtuoso
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Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 08/06/2011 at 9:31am
Could not resist any longer. I'm very curious to compare.------------- Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V |
Posted By: Yason
Date Posted: 08/06/2011 at 3:14pm
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Very interesting...
------------- Nexy Color, Palio Blitz(FH), TSP Triple Spin Chop (BH) |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 08/08/2011 at 2:18pm
| Rich215, how are you doing with the expert? |
Posted By: Antispinner
Date Posted: 08/08/2011 at 2:26pm
| HI ZZZ I see you are from Germany, a friend who was there bought a unusual anti rubber called Tibhar ELLEN Anti Defensive. Could you please check how I make a purchased of this particular rubber from a TT shop in Germany thanks. |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 08/08/2011 at 2:34pm
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OK, I got to have a hit with it last night with my normal training partner for about 1.5 hours or so. I used Razka 7 soft max on both sides for this first test. Initial impression was that it looped very well with medium to higher swing speeds. Pushes were very spiny, but I had a hard time keeping them short. Slow or more passive blocks/loops were hard to control. They usually had too much throw angle height and tending to go long or not have much arc. But when you engage the ball with more speed and power, the arc was nice. It feels a little springy in this situation as the head feels very large with the ST SQ handle. (makes me wonder what it would feel like with a M size or S size head). While practice hitting/looping back and forth, it fees awesome. It does feel thin and whippy at times, but feel and control are very high. It feels like it has so much more touch and crispness than any other blade I have tried as many have mentioned. I must admit....after the first 40 mins of use, I wondered what the Virtuoso is like and thus deepened my desire to try the Virtuoso! I will be testing the blade next with Rakza 7 regular 2.0mm on wed night at my club. I will get to play several different people and have a better gauge on it with this rubber. Maybe the soft version of Rakza did not fit well with this blade? I shall find out the difference soon. With the seemingly large feeling head on this blade and how thin it is.....I may like the AN handle better I feel on this blade. So if I order a Virtuoso, I will get the M size head with either AN or ST handle. I would like the handle on this Expert to be wider and thicker because of the head size. It feels so head heavy because of the ST sq handle on it. More soon...... ------------- |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 08/08/2011 at 2:58pm
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It's mostly the touch and control, being able to put the ball anywhere you feel like you want it to go in your imagination that I like. Also the feel when you strike the ball, everything else about the throw and things like this are adjustable with rubber. The FL handle is a little unusual feeling compared to most commercial blades but since the blade feels so good I just say... well if that handle helps the blade work like this? then it must be a good thing. I'll look forward to how it goes with the normal Rakza and how you do playing matches with it
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Posted By: Yason
Date Posted: 08/09/2011 at 2:48am
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Hi, How it was in comparing to Color? Thanks, ------------- Nexy Color, Palio Blitz(FH), TSP Triple Spin Chop (BH) |
Posted By: albert19
Date Posted: 08/09/2011 at 3:52am
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Hi
Osp Expert have a high throw angle or low throw angle?
I tested Virtuoso and for me have a high Throw angle but I don´t tested Expert.
Thank´s
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Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 08/09/2011 at 10:28am
http://www.spinfactory.de/shop/tibhar-ellen-c-21_108_1268.html - http://www.spinfactory.de/shop/tibhar-ellen-c-21_108_1268.html ------------- Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 08/09/2011 at 10:30am
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Yason..... The Nexy Color feels dead in comparison while the Expert feels alive and energetic but not too fast. Sometimes the Expert feels like ALL+ and sometimes OFF-. Color is better balanced and lower throw, while the Expert with the SQ ST handle feels head heavy. Expert loops very well, Color does not loop good at all for me. I would easily pick the Expert over the Color. albert19....The Expert seems to have a higher throw than I expected with the soft Rakza 7. I now have the regular Rakza 7 on it and will hit with it against many different people tomorrow and will let you all know what I have experienced with the firmer sponge on it. ------------- |
Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 08/09/2011 at 10:32am
Maybe Elcon handle would fit. My preferred OSP handle. But yet not tried with Expert, so not sure. ------------- Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 08/09/2011 at 10:40am
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zzz After I used the Expert SQ.ST. for the first 30 mins....I was thinking just that! If I choose this blade to buy I will get the AN handle for sure. If I get a Virtuoso M, I would like the SQ.ST handle and request it to be at least 2mm wider side to side though. ------------- |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 08/09/2011 at 10:45am
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If your experience is like mine at all, you'll like the firmer rubber on it; I think it brings out the blade dynamics better. I really liked 39 degree 2.1mm H3 on the FH of the Expert and was pleased with the relatively firm 1.8mm Mambo H on the BH. With both of those rubbers, it was easy to make surgically precise short serves and drop shots, followed by spinny and safe openers or fast attacks. Something about firmer rubber seems to make engaging the Expert's heavier spin and speed gears a more smooth transition. ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 08/09/2011 at 10:54am
I saw at OSP blade order form that Palatinus offers a custom handle for just 8€ extra (is it new? I have not noticed before). So everybody should find his perfect handle if he knows what he wants. ------------- Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V |
Posted By: Yason
Date Posted: 08/09/2011 at 1:13pm
Thanks for the answer. I have ordered Expert yesterday, so I will soon compare them myself :-) ------------- Nexy Color, Palio Blitz(FH), TSP Triple Spin Chop (BH) |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 08/09/2011 at 3:12pm
Not new. It has been an option at least since last year. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 08/10/2011 at 10:33am
Oh, must have overlooked it. ------------- Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 08/11/2011 at 1:39pm
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Ok, quick update after using the Expert with Rakza 7 reg. 2.0mm at my club playing several people. I probably played better than any other time with this setup! But, a couple problems I had with a few shots were that of balls going long on some pushes and slower loops/hits. The blade def. has a higher throw compared to everything I have used prior. It is controllable when looping though. When you loop with medium to higher power, the arc is very huge and the ball drops quickly at the end of the arc. This caused several of my opponents to misjudge several shots as they thought the ball was going long but then hit the end of the table. My regular practice partner said when I used this setup, my shots had tons of spin and jump off the bounce compared to a couple other setups I normally use. I could generate tons of backspin on my pushes and a few other under spin shots. Service was very good as well in all regards for me. Hitting back off the table was incredibly fun and enjoyable! This setup also blocks very well too. I managed to place many more blocks and lobs on the table I would not normally have accomplished with my other setups. One of my tougher opponents whom is about 500 pts above me....commented on how much better I played with the Expert. OK, with that said......I think I will order a Virtuoso because of the throw height of the Expert and also because I do not like the large head on the Expert. I would think I can get more control with the Virtuoso than the Expert because of the flex and "whip" action the Expert has? I definitely do not need or want anything faster at all.....Expert felt ALL+ to OFF- like has been said many times. With the SQ/ST handle.....I just did not feel I had good control over the blade at times. I will order a AN handle and probably a M size Virtuoso. The handle on this Expert is just to skinny for the head size to me. The OSP Expert has so much feel and life to it!!! It is like playing with a blade that is ALIVE! what a great feeling structure of wood. I hope the Virtuoso will have the same feel, just more linear and lower throw as some have mentioned. ------------- |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 08/11/2011 at 1:44pm
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Oh, also I will let one of the better players at my club try the Expert next wed. He normally uses a Timo Boll alc i think with Calibra rubbers. He had used that blade with Tenergy 05 on both sides but switched to the Calibra. He just got a Blades by Charlie 7ply blade, 9-10-9 i believe. Beautiful blade for sure. But he did not like it much. He said it did not have a good range of gears and only felt like it had middle end gears that were sort of dead feeling with his Calibra rubbers. He did not have good control with it he said. He likes to brush loop heavily and has excellent footwork and shot selection. He also has very good serves. He is about 1700-1800 level. I have a feeling he is going to love the Expert with Rakza 7 2.0 on it! I will report back his opinions after he tests the setup too. ------------- |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 08/11/2011 at 2:07pm
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the virtuoso is the blade you seek! same alive wood, more medium throw, more linear.
and the weight balance should be more neutral. the expert, like the avalox p500 is simply not suited to most novice to low intermediate players and seems a better fit for the upper intermediate crowd. I suppose the virtuoso is easier to manage because of less whip effect. ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 08/11/2011 at 3:09pm
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That's great news Rich! I felt similarly, it's really a blade that can improve your play and rating just about instantly when you pick it up. It's the only time I've felt like that about a blade. I didn't have any problem with the high throw of the Expert but I did notice it, the FL handle feels a little odd because it's lower on the blade than usual but it's a good size. For me the best thing about the blade is the slowness on touch shots and the fast speed of the whip when it flexes. All the guys I know with one prefer the expert and decided the virtuoso was just a little too fast. But they are all over US2000 so maybe there's something in that theory. I might try a virtuoso myself one day but I would try the large head version because the whip and change up in speed when I want it is a good thing for me. Icontek is your virtuoso the medium head? or large head? When you order take a good look at the size in mm of all the handles, you can also get your custom one a little wider or different shape if that's what you need. It does sound like your friend will like it if he likes a more dynamic blade with lots of range
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Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 08/11/2011 at 4:28pm
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I would love to get on the wait list to review/try this blade for hardbat play. There has been some info that hardbat players may like this blade and I'd like to see if there might be some truth to that and see how this blade compares to some of the classic and modern blades I have. I play hardbat full time and have tried a lot of blades, so I hope my input will be useful. Of course my main objective is simply curiosity.
------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 08/11/2011 at 4:45pm
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@Jay, I am not sure if there is anyone after me on the list. I will send the Expert to you next if no one else is in line behind me. @bluebucket, I have a feeling my club mate will like this blade a lot. he was talking about trying a different rubber besides the Calibra again. He did try the Rakza 7 regular, but in Max, he might have a different feeling after trying it in 2.0 instead especially on the Expert......we shall see. ------------- |
Posted By: assiduous
Date Posted: 08/11/2011 at 5:33pm
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I have Virtuoso OFF-. Seems a bit too fast and handle is too big. Can I try this one as well? Where is the list? What do I need to do?
------------- puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: mmerkel
Date Posted: 08/11/2011 at 9:12pm
We skipped arg0 because he said he is busy until September. So I would think that after Rich it would go as requested...Jay then assiduous and then probably to arg0. ------------- #1 RL Balance -Bluefire M2 -Acuda S2 #2 RL Avalanche#2 -Bluefire M2 -Sigma Europe #3 Primorac -Boost TP -Magna TC |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 08/11/2011 at 10:03pm
OK. So I PMed Rich with my address info. I look forward to slapping some different hardbat rubbers on it. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: assiduous
Date Posted: 08/12/2011 at 12:31am
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nice! :) ------------- puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: assiduous
Date Posted: 08/12/2011 at 1:00am
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hardbat rubbers? Why would you rough up this beautiful blade? ------------- puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 08/12/2011 at 1:54am
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Yes, thanks, September would be great. I also need to get my Virtuoso back, so that I can compare them.
------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 08/12/2011 at 10:57am
I own two Virtuoso blades. One with S-size (157mm), one L-size (159mm). The difference in flex is minimal, but there is a difference. I like the L-size a tad more.
Afaik he has the original size, so it is large head. ------------- Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 08/12/2011 at 11:17am
Why would anybody muffle its fine qualities with layers of mushy sponge? :^) ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 08/12/2011 at 11:28am
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Correct. I have the original headsize; I haven't played with any other Virtuoso's, so I can't comment on how they play. But the Virtuoso was enough to end my EJ'ing; it even stopped me buying different rubbers. I estimate that buying the Virtuoso saved me at least $500 in the past year. The blade: 1 easy enough to use (a little bit more challenging than an allround blade) 2 feels great with the rubbers I picked (on the majority of shots i use) 3 is quality equipment that will last a solid 10 years (unless I start looping the table edge) 4 gives confidence that I will never "outgrow" it And even with H3NP 38/2.15 and Acuda S3/2.0mm, (two medium heavy rubbers) the balance is still pretty good. Maybe a a little head heavy, but not nearly as pronounced as some of my previous setups (H3 2.1 and Mendo 2.0 on the Avalox BT550 for example). However, I am wishing that H3NP was available in 38/2.0, and that I could find Acuda S3 1.8mm for less than $50 shipped. TTNPP's $33/2.0mm is hard to beat. ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |