Korbel Speed vs P500
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Topic: Korbel Speed vs P500
Posted By: Pongz
Subject: Korbel Speed vs P500
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 12:25am
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Anyone has tried Korbel Speed and P500? I am interested of how these two blades compared. Are they similar? Which one is more flexible? better for blocking? Smashing? Loop? Thanks ------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Replies:
Posted By: doraemon
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 1:01am
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They are different. P500 is like Offensive Classic, but with koto as outer ply. It is koto - spruce - ayous - spruce - koto. It is about 0.2 mm thicker than OC. Thus it is faster and still retains the catapult effect (compared to ordinary OC). Korbel Speed is like ordinary Korbel, but again, with koto outer ply. It is koto - limba - ayous - limba - koto. It is about 0.2 mm thinner than Korbel. It is faster and oddly (despite thinner) stiffer compared to Korbel. It is pretty linear though (does not have catapult effect). Now, comparing Korbel Speed vs P500. In term of speed, Korbel Speed is faster than P500. It is more stable for blocking and hitting, although it is still good for looping. P500 is a more a looping blade, although it's not too bad for blocking or hitting. I would say that Korbel Speed is over priced. Better get ordinary Korbel. |
Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 1:47am
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wow thanks doraemon.. this is exactly kind of information I am looking for... I love my P500 for its trampoline looping effect and not too bad for smashing.. it doesn't feel mushy... But I am having trouble while blocking... maybe because P500 being a flexible blade.. I have tried many limba outer ply.. and I don't like it... I really like koto outer ply.. It feels alive... From your answer, Korbel Speed is probably what I am looking for.. My question is do I lose a lot of looping capability if I switch to Korbel Speed? Do I lose the trampoline effect? I play more P500 and OC like blades.. but never try Petr Korbel... thanks... ------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: doraemon
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 2:42am
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OK. You will gain more speed with Korbel Speed during slow and medium shot, but during fast shot (big swing), it does not have the trampoline effect that P500 has (because as far as I remember, Korbel Speed is rather stiff, but not carbon stiff). Thus on fast shot, P500 is probably a bit faster. But Korbel Speed is rather linear, so during fast shot, if you swing big, it will be fast also. Regarding looping, I remember Korbel Speed loops as easily as ordinary Korbel, but with more speed. So it is still a good looping blade, but does not have distinct trampoline effect like P500 has. |
Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 2:48am
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Thanks... I think I should try Petr Korbel like blades since I never try them... to know why so many people like Korbel over OC like blades....
------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: doraemon
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 2:50am
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I need to add one important thing: Weight does have effect on speed. My OC is 83 grams, my P500 is 88 grams. So given the same parameter, P500 must be faster due to bigger momentum. Besides, OC is only 5.5 - 5.6mm while P500 is around 5.7 - 5.8 mm. My Korbel is 89 grams (around 5.9 mm) , but my Korbel speed is 96 grams (around 5.7 mm)!!! Now, back to your problem (it is everybody's problem): You want a good looping blade (usually either soft or flexible), then usually it is not too good for blocking. You want a good blocking blade (usually stiff and can be soft / hard), then usually it is not too good for looping. You want the medium of medium (good for almost anything, but does not excel in anything). According to Chinese Article that was translated by Gekogark, the neutral blades are: Butterfly Petr Korbel and Donic Persson Powerplay. Now, Petr Korbel is head heavy because the handle is so small. So even I like Petr Korbel, I end up not using it because I hate the handle (I have 2: one is FL and one is Conic). I have hold the AN version, it is quite alright but still small. ST is better but BTY only makes Korbel FL now. The minimum weight lately is around 93 grams and most are around 95 grams. Donic Persson Powerplay is OK, but you need to get the 83 - 85 grams copy, because you can get up to 97 grams Powerplay. I know because I weighed few of them. It is 7-ply but you can only see 5-ply because they use thin foil (no one knows what it is), and the thickness is only 5.8 mm. Korbel Speed is a good blade, I just don't think want to spend so much money on it. I got it when it was still cheap. It's not cheap now. |
Posted By: doraemon
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 2:57am
| By the way, if you like P500 and OC, why you don't try Stiga Offensive Wood NCT. It is faster and stiffer (good for blocking) and yet it loops equally well. So you retains similar characteristics of your current blade. |
Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 5:02am
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I have stiga offensive wood nct.. I have used it about a year.. It is quite light.. But I still like koto outer ply.. With P500 I feel that the ball produced kind of wild making it difficult for my opponent to block.. Are you saying korbel speed is similar to offensive wood nct? ------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 5:07am
Yes this is exactly my problem... How to have the best of both world... Maybe I am dreaming... Another option is probably to make a custom blade.. OSP Virtuoso with koto outer ply? ------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
doraemon wrote:Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 5:31am
You could give OSP Expert a try. Reminded me a lot of P500, only better. ------------- Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V |
Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 5:51am
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Hi zzz, I actually just bought OSP expert...Even though it is good close table an mid distance, I think I miss my koto feel.. And when I smash lob I lose a lot of power.. The ball seem dies off rather quick... Doraemon, I have one more question.. Do you have the dimension for the korbel speed (face not handle)? Cheers ------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: Brainstorm69
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 8:42am
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According to Butterfly online, Korbel Speed info Blade Feel Class Plies Weight Blade Face Thickness Handle Dimensions (FL, ST) Korbel Speed Medium Off 5W 89 158 x 152 5.6 100X24 100X22 |
Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 8:23pm
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Thanks Brainstorm69...
------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 05/21/2012 at 8:31pm
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The black limba on the OSP Expert is just as hard or even harder than Koto, it's not a soft blade. Comparing back to back the Expert is similar but much better than a P500. Overall the plies on the Expert are harder. Virtuoso with Koto would be an interesting blade........ I like this thread, this style of blade are really the elite of the elite in looping blades.
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Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/22/2012 at 12:14am
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bluebucket... I feel OSP Expert is softer than P500... I don't know is that because Koto is harder than black limba.. or is it because they have different other core plies? Modified Virtuoso: Koto - Limba - Samba - Limba - Koto Korbel Speed: Koto - Limba - Ayous - Limba - Koto The middle ply is different i.e. Samba vs Ayous... Maybe we can know roughly the difference of this modified combo by comparing Butterfly Petr Korbel vs OSP Virtuoso... because that is the difference between them.. right? I'll have to search first the forum... Also, imho, Koto is not only harder than normal limba but also give much more 'explosive'/'alive' experience.. e.g. I put Outlaw/Tensor/Tenergy rubbers on MMaze/OC CR and TBS/P500.. consistently, the combo felt much more alive, explosive, more click on koto outer ply than limba outer ply.. that gives me a lot of confidence... ------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: doraemon
Date Posted: 05/22/2012 at 12:22am
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Samba = Abachi = Ayous......Same wood, different names
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Posted By: doraemon
Date Posted: 05/22/2012 at 12:24am
| Actually my Persson Powerplay has koto as the outer ply. However, compared to OC-CR with limba outerply (I also add 1 more layer of varnish), Powerplay feels kind of mushy. OC-CR has this kind of sharp feeling, while powerplay feels muted. |
Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/22/2012 at 12:25am
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wow.. ok... so they are the same...
------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 05/22/2012 at 12:32am
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I really like Koto as a top ply myself, I have a custom blade with construction Koto-Limba-Ayous which plays very VERY well. Samba is just another name for Ayous, Samba/Ayous/Obeche/Abachi are all the same wood. The P500 is Koto-Spruce-Ayous, the same as a Hurricane King or an old Stiga OC, I also have a hand made blade with this construction. These blades play similar to the Expert Limba-Limba-Ayous which is the same thickness and roughly the same headsize. The main difference in feel between these two similar popular constructions is that the Koto-Spruce version has a distinct extra bounce from the Spruce. You can feel it just as the ball leaves the blade while you are playing. Perhaps that is the feeling you enjoy more from the Koto-Spruce blades. In that case you wont enjoy a Koto-Limba-Ayous blade quite as much which I'm guessing is what the Korbel speed is, I think what you are missing is the Spruce not the Koto. For me playing two near identical blades the Expert with the hard Black Limba-Limba-Ayous and the Koto-Limba-Ayous blade the Koto blade is definitely better on the backhand side but overall I can't separate the two blades on outright performance. Both have good and bad points, on the other hand they are the two best blades I own. If I preferred the extra kick Spruce gives then the Hurricane King might be my favourite. If you were looking for a faster stiffer version of the P500 then Hurricane King 656 might be the blade you want?
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Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 05/22/2012 at 12:37am
| I forgot one thing, the Koto-Spruce blades don't kick quite as hard as the Limba-Limba or Koto-Limba blades in the same thickness because spruce doesn't seem to rebound as hard from the flex, the Spruce blades make up for the kick from the flex with the bounce out of the Spruce, I hope you can understand what I'm trying to get across :)? |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 05/22/2012 at 12:40am
| Pongz, could I also ask what rubbers you are using on your Expert? the Expert plays best with a heavy rubber on the backhand |
Posted By: emihet
Date Posted: 05/22/2012 at 1:07am
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I PREFER THE P500 OVERALL IN ALL COMPARTMENTS ------------- Viscaria, Ma Long 5, Old Clippers, BTY Ovtcharov and Various Custom blades |
Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/22/2012 at 1:58am
I use Tenergy 25 FH on P500 whereas I use Galaxy Sun FH on OSP Expert... To be fair, I'll try Tenergy 25 FH on OSP expert... Now I have to digest what you have written before... Cheers ------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 05/22/2012 at 2:07am
| Ok that sounds fair, The Galaxy rubbers are ok for an intermediate player but they are worlds behind Tenergy or the Tensors as fair as high performance rubbers go. T25 should be something nice on it |
Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/22/2012 at 2:33am
bluebucket, can you decipher this again? I am a bit slow here... :) Also hurricane 656, isn't that very expensive blade?... Is it the same as Hurricane Hao? ------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 05/22/2012 at 2:48am
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Yes it's very expensive, it's not the same as the Hurricane Hao. I just though it might be about the composition you are looking for. Spruce is a kind of soft and bouncy wood, like Balsa except not quite that much. When you hit with those blades that have Spruce in the 2nd ply the ball bounces out of the Spruce, it's a springy wood (springs back from compression). If you have Limba in the 2nd play you don't feel that extra bounce. Also because Spruce is a softer wood those blades don't hold has much power when they are flexed as the Limba blades. If you could imagine a branch of softwood flexed and then let go in your face.. it wouldn't hit you has hard as a wood with more torque flexed the same amount. I'm talking about a difference that is small but still clearly noticeable to me when I'm playing, if you discount the difference in feel both types of blades have similar performance. For me Expert vs P500 with the same rubbers the Expert is more powerful far from the table because of the stronger kick on flex, the P500 maybe slightly better or more consistent at the table. Try a good rubber on the Expert first and see how you feel about the blade then. After that you might know more about the exact qualities you want in a blade. When you have some good and heavy rubbers on the Expert you should feel it kick in your hand after each loop, especially after it's been used for while to loosen it up
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Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/22/2012 at 3:40am
wow.. I got you.. where do all you people learn all these kind of stuff?  When I smash lob with OSP Expert, the ball dies off very quickly after the first bounce... Could it be because of the rubber? It does feel soft... I use Tenergy 25 on the backhand... I just haven't flip it and try it on forehand... P500 feels solid when smashing lob... but TBS is even better I think.. the ball goes sort of accelerating after first bounce.. That's why I like koto.. but you reckon it is the spruce that gives the extra kick... ------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 05/22/2012 at 3:58am
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Well lets not get into the TBS that's a whole other story and kind of blade. Try T25 on the forehand of the Expert. The Expert wont ever smash as well as a TBS and not really as well as a P500 either since it's more flexible and flexible blades are not happy while smashing. What it should do is out loop either of them easily, especially the TBS. You only learn these things from trying a lot of blades and paying attention to the ball feeling and yes it's definitely the Spruce that gives the extra bounce out of the wood, all Spruce 2nd ply blades have that feeling, try bouncing a ball on a bare YEO one time |
Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/22/2012 at 7:57pm
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ok I'll try Tenergy 25 with OSP Expert tomorrow... Yesterday I was thinking... like what Doraemon had said... yes, I want the blade that able to loop well like P500 but at the same time hit/blocking like 7 plies (I haven't tried Petr Korbel like blades).. But to be precised, I was actually looking for more stable block on my backhand... My fh block is acceptable (of course it is better if I use 7 plies)... so I am thinking, why don't I make a customized dual speed blade for example... 1. Koto - spruce - ayous - Limba - Koto 2. Koto - spruce - ayous - Limba - Limba 3. Koto - Limba - ayous - Limba - Limba What do you think guys? is it silly? will it work? which one of the three do you think will work? Thanks ------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: garwor
Date Posted: 05/23/2012 at 2:44am
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you actually want perfect blade (stiff and flexy, soft and hard, depends of shot you want to make ) :D But, if it is so easy to make it, dont you think it would exist already and everyone would already play with it? ------------- http://stonitenis.rs/equipmentreviews" rel="nofollow - Equipment database Yinhe MC-2 FL fh: Xiom Vega pro bh: Xiom Vega pro Boycott Marcos Freitas for hidden services! |
Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/23/2012 at 3:33am
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well there could be no one blade best for everyone... but there could be one blade best for me... :)
------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 05/23/2012 at 11:41am
+2, and the ST grip is outstanding! P500 is like comfort food in bladedom. Does everything right except a tad different for blocking but nothing terrible. Construction is spot on....I love that blade. ------------- Wood Paddle Red side Black side. |
Posted By: king_pong
Date Posted: 05/23/2012 at 7:22pm
(these are great back-to-back posts, btw, Blue bucket) I think I get what you are saying. Do you mean that Spruce doesn't "trampoline" as well as koto_limba, but it "drum-kicks" better?? I hope I get you right, cause I like the comparisons. Thank you. |
Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/23/2012 at 8:22pm
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I do understand this... at the moment, P500 is still the best blade for me all-around... I play close to the table.. open with loop or drive and then follow with variety of drive or smash... that's why I need all-around blade that enables me to loop as well as smash.. I will test tonight OSP Expert with T25... ------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: mikepong
Date Posted: 05/23/2012 at 8:44pm
how is p500 with T05? is it a looping set up, i have tried t05 with different blades but i must admit i havent tried it with p500 ------------- Viscaria FH: Tenergy 05 black BH: Tenergy 05 red |
Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/24/2012 at 10:44am
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mikepong, I like 5 ply over 7 ply.. and among 5 ply I like P500 the best until tonight... P500 has koto outer ply that give you a lot of feeling for during drive or smashing... if your type of play is mainly looping.. you may prefer other softer blade such OC, OSP Expert.. you may think P500 a bit too hard... but if you play like me who normally open with loop, then drive... then smash... then variety of shots depending how high/low the ball return.. there is a chance you may like it.. the problem that I have with P500 is the blocking... it is fine when I attack.. but then when I defense, I am not comfortable... I can't really do passive block to take the pace of the ball... So, P500 with T05 is great in my opinion.. not too hard for my like... it is good for looping but work quite well also for other attacking shots... mind you I don't like soft or mush feeling.. Tonight, I played OSP Expert with T25, Galaxy Sun for awhile then I tried Korbel Speed which came today also with the same rubbers... Though OSP expert combo is quite good, Korbel Speed combo is really what I have been dreaming to get... This is it... My Korbel Speed is 96gr.. so the total combo is about 205gr.... head heavy... Luckily I am used to head heavy blade... as expected.. compare to OSP expert 86gr or P500 81gr... the Korbel speed is much faster... loop is as easy as P500 but more linear... the ball from P500 sometimes jump.. but Korbel Speed is linear.. but just fast... when I really power up, then I can feel a gentle flex and the ball slight jump.... but nothing to get excited... Compared to OSP, korbel speed loop is flatter.. which I like... but not as flat as some 7 ply blade.... As expected, the drive or smash Korbel Speed is better than those two... so it fits my style nicely... In the blocking area.. I was so satisfied with Korbel Speed.... I played for 1 year using 7ply.. mainly Yasaka Extra Special (YES), Clipper CR.. Block that I used to get from 7 ply blade... it all comeback to me... it enables me to play close table left right quickly like women type of game.. Like many of you, I also have tried many blades. I know the initial feeling that wear off sometimes... I don't have that over excited feeling... like doraemon and bluebucket said... it is a blade that is not excel in one area but good enough in all areas... I think I find the blade that fits me... I satisfied with my buy... Thank to all people who have given me so much input.. Cheers
------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/28/2012 at 12:11am
Play again with the same combo.. beat a defensive player who I have never been able to beat for years... beat him 5-2...  For my style, Korbel Speed suits me better than P500... And yes, it is worthwhile to get equipments that suit your own style.. ------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: doraemon
Date Posted: 05/28/2012 at 10:31am
| I am glad that you like Korbel Speed..... Good for you.... |
Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/28/2012 at 8:15pm
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Thanks... King_Pong, clear your inbox... ------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: mr-francais
Date Posted: 05/30/2012 at 6:08pm
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so u say u found looping being quite easy with the korbel speed? i'm just asking because i used to play with the blade for quite a long time and i just could't find the right rubbers to loop aiganinst underspin, the blade seems to be quite hard in this area. otherwise i agree great blade for powerlooping smash combination. outstanding control for ist speed. ------------- Viscaria Tenergy 25 fx Tenergy 64 |
Posted By: Pongz
Date Posted: 05/30/2012 at 7:52pm
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Underspin? I think it depends on your technique.. some people like soft/mushy blade to lift underspin... for some reason the dwell time is good for them... On the other hand, I don't like it.. for me it is easier to lift underspin / initiate attack using blades 'hard' like Korbel Speed and P500... Korbel Speed is good for me because it allows the best of both worlds (5 ply vs 7 ply)... ------------- Butterfly Sardius FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
Posted By: doraemon
Date Posted: 05/31/2012 at 3:52am
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Using stiff blade, you must brush more and using flexy blade, you can just "hit+brush" to create good spin. So I say that flexy blades facilitate looping better as it is more forgiving (you don't have to be too precise in brushing), BUT stiff blades facilitate smashing better as it is more forgiving (you don't have to hit right at the sweet spot, which is rather small for flexy blades). SO it is not which one is better, but which technique you are accustomed to. |