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Donic Waldner Legend Carbon

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Topic: Donic Waldner Legend Carbon
Posted By: right2niru
Subject: Donic Waldner Legend Carbon
Date Posted: 07/10/2012 at 11:18am
Has anybody tried this new donic blade and if so can add some reviews on it ? 
It is currently available in USA in megaspin.net - 

http://www.megaspin.net/store/default.asp?pid=d-wald-legend-c - http://www.megaspin.net/store/default.asp?pid=d-wald-legend-c


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ZJK SZLC |5Q+



Replies:
Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 07/10/2012 at 11:47am
I have one on order, Sadly the blade has not been released as yet. Just like the Bluefire M2 and M3 the Legend is being advertised or you see it on dealers stock list but it is just not available. Donic is a tease!!!!

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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 07/10/2012 at 11:55am
what do they mean by "soft inner"? balsa core maybe?
we can only read everywhere (americantabletennis, megaspin...) the same marketing that donic publishes on its http://www.donic.de/index.php?screen=dstore.item.view&TreeNodeID=19802 - website


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Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 07/10/2012 at 12:11pm
fatt, according to petermoo it may very well be balsa. He is trying to get confirmation on this.

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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 07/11/2012 at 6:35am
According to Schoeler-Micke and the labeling the WLC is a 3+2 blade and has Hinoki-Carbon-Kiri-Carbon-Hinoki.

http://schoeler-micke.tabletennis-shop.de/en/Blades/Donic-Waldner-Legend-Carbon.html - http://schoeler-micke.tabletennis-shop.de/en/Blades/Donic-Waldner-Legend-Carbon.html

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Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V


Posted By: petermoo
Date Posted: 07/11/2012 at 10:15am
Originally posted by Carryboy Carryboy wrote:

fatt, according to petermoo it may very well be balsa. He is trying to get confirmation on this.

I can confirm that the center ply is indeed Kiri


Petermoo


Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 07/11/2012 at 10:24am
wow kiri carbon hinoki... a light flexier amultart maybe? is it a 5+2 or 3+2 blade? 
if it is a 5+2,
do we have 2 outer plies with the carbon glued to the core or do we have the carbon between 2 outer plies? and, what is the wood used for the inner ply?


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Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 07/11/2012 at 10:27am
oops i read only pertermoo's post and overlooked zzz's post; sorry.

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Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 07/11/2012 at 1:22pm
translation:

Donic Waldner Carbon Legend

Newly developed by DONIC, which has it all!
 
Fast, relatively lightweight offensive blade that features a larger sweet spot with more feel.
 
The carefully coordinated selection of wood veneers - Hinoki outer veneer combined with carbon fibers and a soft inner core - get the wood its hardness and high ground speed.
 
Better suited to offensive players that operate around the table with a lot of pressure
 
Handle shapes: straight, concave
Weight: 85 gr
5 layers - Kiso Hinoki, Kiri + 2 carbon layers




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Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 07/11/2012 at 9:55pm
Then it has the same ply construction with Butterly's Schlager Carbon ?

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Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club
Virtuoso, Acuda Blue P1.
Virtuoso CRWI, Desto F2






Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 10/08/2012 at 5:53pm
I've just started using one of these.  It's really well-made - to a higher standard than Donic's usual (although there's nothing much wrong with Donic blades anyway).  The hinoki top is really nice, and everything is finished beautifully.  No sharp edges or splinters anywhere.  Handle really comfortable.  Only had the one session, but I'm very happy so far.
 
I got it from the World Cup in Liverpool.  The chap at the Topspin Sports stand was very helpful, and mentioned that this one was made in Japan with the direct intention of duplicting Butterfly specs.  Sounds like waffle, but I can see his point when looking at the finished product.


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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: tabten5
Date Posted: 10/08/2012 at 7:29pm
Thanks, AndySmith. Can I ask: what weight is yours? If it's under 85g, I'm going to have to pick one up.

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T05 2.1 | VISCARIA | T64 1.9


Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 10/09/2012 at 3:07am
Originally posted by tabten5 tabten5 wrote:

Thanks, AndySmith. Can I ask: what weight is yours? If it's under 85g, I'm going to have to pick one up.
 
Mine is 86g.  The average weight seems to come in at 85g, so you can probably ask for a slightly lighter one if you can find a helpful webshop.


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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: bryce_fx23
Date Posted: 10/09/2012 at 5:31am
I have ovtharow carbospeed in FS section with is thicker model of waldner legend carbon. Mine weights 85g, ST, like new condition


Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 10/20/2012 at 5:46pm
AndySmith, have you been playing with this blade much??? I got mine a week ago and planning on writing something about it as well as some pictures.

Great blade with good feel and just the right amount of flex. It feels like it was built for the Bluefire rubbers.


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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: tsanyc
Date Posted: 10/21/2012 at 12:34am
Carryboy
 
Please play with it quick and give us all a detail review:)


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Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 10/21/2012 at 3:36am
Originally posted by Carryboy Carryboy wrote:


AndySmith, have you been playing with this blade much??? I got mine a week ago and planning on writing something about it as well as some pictures.Great blade with good feel and just the right amount of flex. It feels like it was built for the Bluefire rubbers.




I've got two sheets of M3 on it, and I love it. Another clubmate was impressed too, and ordered the same setup from Tibi as well. I haven't used it for long enough to post a lot of info (testing other blades at the moment), but it seems like a great fit so far. Very smooth feel, and adds a touch of low speed spring to the bluefire, which I think it needs. A brilliant looping carbon setup.

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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: neon
Date Posted: 10/21/2012 at 4:19am

Hello friends,

can you share head size of these blades, thank you very much.



Posted By: Skyline
Date Posted: 10/21/2012 at 5:44am
This is a very nice blade, I tried with Bluefire M1 on both sides. Tremendous speed, great feel and very good spin!


Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 10/21/2012 at 10:53am
I received this blade about a week ago, maybe a bit longer. Inspecting the blade initially I would say the fit and finish is quite high with a very interesting color scheme used on the handle that really gives the blade a fun look. If we should use Butterfly blades as the benchmark then I would give the fit and finish of this particular blade 8.5 on a scale of 1 - 10. The materials used seem to be of very high quality with a nice hefty/thick Kiso Hinoki top ply evenly grained (really nice). As a matter of fact I would say that the quality of materials used would be a full 10.



Please be cautioned that I have not played any serious matches/games with this blade as yet. Used for the past week on my Robot and practice sessions with other players. So far this is my initial impressions and subject to change over the next two weeks which I will update as time goes on.

DONIC WALDNER LEGEND CARBON
Composition:    Kiso Hnoki/Carbon Fiber/Kiri/Carbon Fiber/Kiso Hinoki  5 Ply
Head Dimension: 155mm wide x 160mm high x 6mm thick
Handle Dimensions:  36mm wide x 24mm high x 100mm length
Weight:  79/80 grams  (My request due to the rubbers that would be used Bluefire)
Surface Feel:  Hard-
Blade elasticity: Stiff (However slight flex during power shots)
Blade Speed: OFF (True Off in every sense of the word)
Type of Play: Looping Purist ( A precision Looping Instrument)
Country of Manufacture: China



As I said these are my initial impressions and subject to change over time. I dressd the Waldner Legend Carbon with Donic Bluefire M2 Max forehand and Donic Coppa X3 Silver 2.0 backhand.



Initial bounce test I found the setup to be not overly bouncy on both sides which indicated in all probability good control and could be on the slow side (or so I thought). I may add that both rubbers are brand new so a bit of break in time was needed. Attachd Bluefire with a light coat of RC and Coppa X3 Silver with Donic Vario Clean and had it in the press on and off for over 48 hours (between playing time). Total setup weight with hand grip is 178 grams which kind of surprised me as I really did not expect the weight to be that heavy based on the blade weight. The blades head is oversized (a lot of real estate) at 155mm x 160mm and a cut sheet of M2  for this blade with a bit of over hang would be around 52 grams. The normal weight of this blade should average 85 grams so the same setup using a 85 gram example the weight would be 183 to 185 grams. The balance of the setup is more towards the head. The handle is very comfortable with the wings/throat  cut high like most Butterfly blades (The Gergely is a good example).



Short Game:  As I thought, very controlled as the setup is not overly bouncy. This is one aspect of this blade (setup) that bothered me at first but I got the hang of it after the fist few hours. You have to play every shot and in comparison to my Li Ping Kitex (Dimension of Kitex is 150mm wide x 155mm height x 6.75mm thick) and basically setup the same way (much more bouncy) a lot of rebound comes into play. I could actually load up the backspin on my short game without any nasty popups or the chance of going over the board unless I am not reading  properly what type of spin is coming back at me. In comparison to the Kitex, I had to adjust the push and touch angle a bit more horizontal in most instances with the Waldner Legend. Backhand and forehand flicks are easy and very controlled but not as spinny as I would like. I will see if it gets better in the coming weeks, probably a little change in technique. The blade has excellent feel and touch with slight vibration. It has a unique feel that is hard to explain, kind of a dryish feel (Kiso Hinoki) and a short quick vibration and pitch with a very sharp feel. Its as if the blade speaks to you letting you know exactly what is happening, a bad shot you know right away. In Comparison to the Kitex the Waldner Legend has more control in the short game but you have to be more active in the short game with the Waldner Legend (short game control very similar to the Nexy Spartacus with a sharper precise feel).



Attacking Shots: The Waldner Legend is a very fast, linear blade with many gears. Together with the Bluefire M2, it is as if both rubber and blade were built to compliment each other. Paired together this becomes one hell of a looping machine. There is a slight amount of flex (6mm) thick plus over sized head (155 x 160mm) plus M2 Max and a dash of that unique feel equals you are in looping territory, a consistent controlled looping instrument. The spin is just ridiculous!!! In comparison to the Kitex the Waldner Legend is more linear and controlled in attacks.  Loop drives borders on Insanity!! Counter loops are good but you have to keep a more horizontal stroke for this shot. However I find the Kitex a bit better at counter looping in this regard and that is probably due to the Kitex being .75mm thicker and less flexier.  Flat hits are fast and hammering and is just as fast as the Kitex. On the backhand side the Coppa X3 Silver while very good in the touch game plays very well on this blade on attacking strokes. While my backhand is weaker than my forehand I was able to loop on that side with good spin and backhand drives were very fast. As I said before the Waldner Legend does not have as much rebound as the Kitex so I was able to really unload with my backhand to finish the point or a beautiful high return and a easy put away.

I will add one more note to power shots. The Waldner Legend Carbon has another upper gear (Super Charged) or so it would seem to me. I will not say much about this aspect of the blade until I can get confirmation from another player here on the forum.



Blocks: I found blocking quite easy with this blade. You will find active blocking quite controlled for placement, if of course you have the time to do this. I am no expert at punch blocking but I did punch block a few back on the board when my training partner erroneously put some weak loose loops my way. I found with this blade/setup, I was putting a lot of balls back on the table, much more than usual which caused my opponents to make a lot of errors.

Serves: Quite good and as I said before due to the low rebound you can serve quite short or load up on some really fast serves.



In summary a quick comparison between the Waldner Legend, Li Ping Kitex, Nexy Spartacus and Nexy Calix;

Speed: WL=LPK>NC>NS
Spin: WL=NS=LPK>NC
Control: WL=NS>LPK>NC
Flex: NC>NS>WL>LPK
Vibration: NS>NC>WL>LPK
Value for Money: WL=LPK>NS>NC

I have have been playing with this blade over the last two weeks after coming off of the Li Ping Kitex before that. With the Waldner Legend I have lost a few games and I have won a lot, and I have had fun during both loosing and winning. The Donic Waldner Legend Carbon is the most linear blade I have ever used. For the money this blade is a must try, for value two thumbs up. At around US$70 I am hard pressed to name any blade at twice the price that I can think of that is truly much better than the Waldner Legend Carbon. As you can see from the pictures shown this blade looks like a fun blade especially with both rubbers used, the color scheme really attracts a lot of stares. Everyone is curious about the Bluefire M2 and the Waldner Legend Carbon, and even the almost antique Coppa X3 Silver has gotten a lot of admiration. I have been using Bluefire M2 for near two months now on my Kitex and no one ever noticed or gave it a second glance. The first minute on the Waldner Legend Carbon and it was in Hollywood, WOW!!!






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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 10/21/2012 at 3:26pm
My post is updated!!

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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: neon
Date Posted: 10/22/2012 at 12:21am

Originally posted by bryce_fx23 bryce_fx23 wrote:

I have ovtharow carbospeed in FS section with is thicker model of waldner legend carbon. Mine weights 85g, ST, like new condition


Hello friends,

bryce_fx23 can you measured head size of ovtcharov carbospeed and share with us? Thank you very much.



Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 10/22/2012 at 4:03am
Originally posted by Carryboy Carryboy wrote:

My post is updated!!
 
Great info, thanks.  Agree with everything you say, but I'd say it was softer than hard-.  Feel is subjective, etc etc.
 
It's a great blade, and amazing value for money.  The equivalent BTY blade would be 3x the price.
 
I'd love an 80g one...


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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 10/22/2012 at 4:26am
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

The chap at the Topspin Sports stand was very helpful, and mentioned that this one was made in Japan with the direct intention of duplicting Butterfly specs.  Sounds like waffle, but I can see his point when looking at the finished product.

Not so sure it's made in Japan... I've seen other blades from that series, and I don't think it mentioned on there where they were made, so I'm pretty sure they're made in China. They do seem of good quality though... China can make some very high quality blades.


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Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 10/22/2012 at 4:34am
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

The chap at the Topspin Sports stand was very helpful, and mentioned that this one was made in Japan with the direct intention of duplicting Butterfly specs.  Sounds like waffle, but I can see his point when looking at the finished product.

Not so sure it's made in Japan... I've seen other blades from that series, and I don't think it mentioned on there where they were made, so I'm pretty sure they're made in China. They do seem of good quality though... China can make some very high quality blades.
 
Yes, I have my doubts about it too.  It comes in a totally generic Donic box, which gives no indication of where it was made (or even which blade was in there).  Nothing on the blade itself either.  From the price alone, it probably isn't made in Japan, so probably salesman nonsense.


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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 10/22/2012 at 6:11am
Yes I think you're right... I've got the Ovtcharov Carbospeed which also come in a generic box. This is quite a similar blade. Reminded me of a Primorac Carbon which has similar construction too.




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Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX
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Posted By: neon
Date Posted: 10/22/2012 at 6:16am
Haggisv, forgive me, do you know head size of ovtcharov carbospeed. Thank you very much.


Posted By: bryce_fx23
Date Posted: 10/22/2012 at 6:25am
head size of mine ovtharow 161-153


Posted By: ttping85
Date Posted: 10/22/2012 at 6:28am
Same for my ovtcharov


Posted By: tayyabsaeedkhan
Date Posted: 10/22/2012 at 7:54am
Can you please compare Waldner Legend carbon and Ovtcharov carbospeed to any BTY carbon blades. That would be very kind of you .

Regards


Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 10/22/2012 at 9:14am
Originally posted by tayyabsaeedkhan tayyabsaeedkhan wrote:

Can you please compare Waldner Legend carbon and Ovtcharov carbospeed to any BTY carbon blades. That would be very kind of you .

Regards
 
I would say the closest to both is the Amultart, but I think the Waldner Legend is a bit softer and more controlled.  Not sure about the Carbospeed.


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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: ttping85
Date Posted: 10/22/2012 at 9:18am
Carbospeed also plays softer than Amultart. But maybe the Sardius is closer because the Amultart has zylon which gives it a very specific feel compared to other hinoki-carbon blades. 


Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 10/22/2012 at 9:22am
Originally posted by ttping85 ttping85 wrote:

Carbospeed also plays softer than Amultart. But maybe the Sardius is closer because the Amultart has zylon which gives it a very specific feel compared to other hinoki-carbon blades. 
 
Ah, yes good point.  I've never used a Sardius - difficult to get them now.  Reading the reviews, it looks to be heavier (on average) and faster, but the regular carbon is going to be closer in feel than the Amultart's ZLC.


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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: tayyabsaeedkhan
Date Posted: 10/25/2012 at 3:59pm
Well thanks for your input.
Going to order one and will test it.


Posted By: Big Looper
Date Posted: 10/26/2012 at 9:29am
Does anybody know if you can get the blade with an anatomic handle?
How does it compare to the Carbotox as thats what i am currently using.
thanksSmile


Posted By: tsanyc
Date Posted: 10/26/2012 at 9:49am
so do you guys like it better than BTY blades?

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http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27730&title=feedback-tsanyc - My Feedback


Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 10/26/2012 at 6:26pm
UPDATED!!! With pictures

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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 10/26/2012 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by Carryboy Carryboy wrote:

UPDATED!!! With pictures

you mean in your http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51570&PID=667316&title=donic-waldner-legend-carbon#667316 - previous post right http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51570&PID=667316&title=donic-waldner-legend-carbon#667316 - there correct? Tongue


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Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 10/26/2012 at 8:35pm
Great review and pictures Carryboy!Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Up

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Posted By: ttping85
Date Posted: 10/28/2012 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by Big Looper Big Looper wrote:

Does anybody know if you can get the blade with an anatomic handle?
How does it compare to the Carbotox as thats what i am currently using.
thanksSmile

Are you asking for the Waldner or the Ovtcharov blade? 


Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 10/28/2012 at 9:47pm
Come on guys - any reviews on the Ovtcharov blade??  I would love a comparison between the Waldner Legend and the Ovtcharov Carbon!!!!!

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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: Big Looper
Date Posted: 10/29/2012 at 7:27am
I am asking about the new waldner blade.
I am currently using the donic carbotox and would like to know how it compares to the new waldner blade if anybody has had the two blades.
From what i have read about the difference between the waldner legend and the new ovtcharov is the centre ply is slightly thicker on the ovtcharov  not 100% sure though.


Posted By: ttping85
Date Posted: 10/30/2012 at 5:55am
I will get the Waldner blade soon and will try to make a comparison with the Ovtcharov. 


Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 10/30/2012 at 6:20am
Originally posted by ttping85 ttping85 wrote:

I will get the Waldner blade soon and will try to make a comparison with the Ovtcharov. 
 
I'm going the other way - hope to get a Carbospeed soon.


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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 11/09/2012 at 11:01am
Hokay, so I got a Carbospeed today. Comparing the plies to the Legend, the core is a lot thicker, but the hinoki outers look thinner to me. So the overall thickness is a little bigger, but not as much as I was expecting.

Short robot session gives me the impression that the Carbospeed feels more solid on punch shots, has no vibration (Legend has a bit), very little flex (if any), harder overall feel. Using M3 and comparing back-to-back, I could get a bigger arc on FH loops with the Legend, but hitting flat and driving on the BH was more consistent with the Carbospeed. Ideally, I want to chop these blades in half and glue then together to get the best of both worlds, but in the absence of that I'll use a couple of training sessions to see what fits best. My instinct tells me to go with the Carbospeed and tone down my FH a bit, but I will miss the Legend's crazy FH looping...

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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 11/09/2012 at 2:24pm
Andy what is the weight of your Carbospeed?? When you refer to toning down the forehand do you mean something slower than M3, assuming that you are using M3 on your forehand.



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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 11/09/2012 at 2:26pm
I also have a Carbospeed on order and was thinking of the M3 for forehand.

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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 11/10/2012 at 3:45am
It's 87g. The M3 is excellent on the forehand. When I mentioned calming it down, I just meant slowing myself down a bit. Fewer wild swings. Can't see myself changing from M3 on the forehand for a while.

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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: GoldenDragoon
Date Posted: 11/10/2012 at 3:53am
+1 M3 is a great FH rubber. Sounds like the Waldner Legend is quite the blade, pity they don't make it with a real handle.

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Blade: Nexy Spartacus FL 84g
FH: Evolution FX-P Max Blk
BH: Evolution EL-P 1.9 Red


Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 11/10/2012 at 1:46pm
Thanks for letting me know andysith, will order a sheet of M3 for forehand. What are you using for backhand? Also how would you describe the throw of the carbo speed in comparison to the legend? Lower??


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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 11/10/2012 at 2:35pm
I really, really wanted to use M3 on the BH as well, but I just couldn't get it to work for me. So I'm deciding between Acuda S3 and Sigma Europe.

Yeah, Carbospeed is slightly lower throw than Legend.

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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: Big Looper
Date Posted: 11/11/2012 at 11:23pm
My Waldner is on the way will let you guys know what i think of it when it arrives.


Posted By: GoldenDragoon
Date Posted: 11/12/2012 at 5:40am
You putting M3/H3 on it or two BF's?

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Blade: Nexy Spartacus FL 84g
FH: Evolution FX-P Max Blk
BH: Evolution EL-P 1.9 Red


Posted By: Big Looper
Date Posted: 11/12/2012 at 6:39am
Prolly BF and tenergy 05. 


Posted By: GoldenDragoon
Date Posted: 11/13/2012 at 1:21am
For M or for A? I thought the blade was for M?

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Blade: Nexy Spartacus FL 84g
FH: Evolution FX-P Max Blk
BH: Evolution EL-P 1.9 Red


Posted By: duanrao
Date Posted: 11/14/2012 at 2:16am
Well thanks for your input.
Going to order one and will test it.

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http://www.safegw2gold.com/ - Guild wars 2 gold


Posted By: tsanyc
Date Posted: 11/15/2012 at 12:42am
so how is the new waldner?

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Posted By: tayyabsaeedkhan
Date Posted: 12/19/2012 at 6:56am
Can anyone post Ovtcharov carbospeed's in detail review ???


Posted By: stefashka
Date Posted: 12/19/2012 at 7:13am
What is the thickness of Donic Waldner Legend Carbon?  I could not find it anywhere...

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Yasaka Synergy CP - Yasaka Rising Dragon FH, Vega Japan BH


Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 12/19/2012 at 7:50am
Originally posted by stefashka stefashka wrote:

What is the thickness of Donic Waldner Legend Carbon?  I could not find it anywhere...


6.3mm I think. It's printed on the face of the shakehand blade:

http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/tt-blade-donic-waldner-legend-carbon

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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: tayyabsaeedkhan
Date Posted: 12/19/2012 at 1:33pm
Donic waldner legend carbon + Bluefire m1 max both sides would be head heavy ???
Or is it a balanced setup with a little bit weight towards the head.

What are your thoughts . . .


Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 12/19/2012 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by tayyabsaeedkhan tayyabsaeedkhan wrote:

Donic waldner legend carbon + Bluefire m1 max both sides would be head heavy ???Or is it a balanced setup with a little bit weight towards the head.What are your thoughts . . .


The legend does have a larger than average head size, and M1 is heavy, so I think this would be a bit head heavy, yes. That might suit you though, it's down to personal preferences.

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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 12/19/2012 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by stefashka stefashka wrote:

What is the thickness of Donic Waldner Legend Carbon?  I could not find it anywhere...


6mm, you can see my specifications and review on this blade on the first page. However the review does need a bit of updating.


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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 12/19/2012 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by tayyabsaeedkhan tayyabsaeedkhan wrote:

Donic waldner legend carbon + Bluefire m1 max both sides would be head heavy ???
Or is it a balanced setup with a little bit weight towards the head.

What are your thoughts . . .


Very heavy with a lot of weight towards the head!!! But if that is your cup of tea then go for it.


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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 12/19/2012 at 7:55pm
I feel like no player under 2k usatt can justify getting thicker/faster/spinnier/harder than M2 2.0mm and that's why I switched to that for the fh. Of course there are people that level and under with a monstrous fh loop who can handle M1 max because they go super fast 100% all the time on all FH shots but they are exceptions imo; other people just fool themselves thinking the points they wins by going from M2 2.0 to M1 max are more than compensating the ones they lose in the switch. 
That's why on any blade including the Waldner Legend Carbon (that I did not try yet) I'd recommend m2 2.0 Wink over m1 2.0/max.


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Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 12/19/2012 at 8:15pm
I find M2 Max quite controllable on this blade. For some reason I just could not warm up to M1 on this blade. The problem was the short game with the M1 felt a little out of control and lacked a little feeling as compared to the M2. 

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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: tayyabsaeedkhan
Date Posted: 12/20/2012 at 8:46am
In past I have used YEO with H3 and sonex jp on bh.
My second setup was Tibhar grip S and Sonex jp gold with Stiga clipper CR wrb.
I have used Rosewood 7 with rakza 9 and acuda S1 turbo.

Now they are heavy setups. I want the speed of the setup equal to rosewood 7 or more so I dont have to put alot of effort from away to the table.
Now tell me please I am very keen to have a new setup and I would rate myself USATT 2200-2300.
I am not from US but I have played with US 1800 and I have seen some forum members videos who are rated in US. My rating is based on these thoughts. Maybe I am wrong Tongue

Thanks in advance


Posted By: tayyabsaeedkhan
Date Posted: 12/20/2012 at 8:50am
And yeah I had beaten the 1800 player in straight sets easily under 5-6 points without putting much effort .
Hope this helps


Posted By: Skyline
Date Posted: 12/20/2012 at 9:09am
This blade is very popular among the people I train with. I tried it a few times and I really liked it. I just could not resist the temptation to buy one!


Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 12/20/2012 at 10:31am
It's an excellent blade. Easily the best value for money carbon/hinoki blade out there at the moment.

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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 12/20/2012 at 11:11am
Because all the major brands Carbon Hinoki's are almost identical you may as well go with the cheaper one. tayyabseedkhan no chance in the world you will control a carbon hinoki and M1 at 1800 level, no chance at 2500 level either. Consider it at 2900


Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 12/20/2012 at 11:47am
The blade is very good. I have just recently purchased a second one at around the same weight 79.9 grams as a backup. January I will set about getting some rubbers for it.

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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: tayyabsaeedkhan
Date Posted: 12/20/2012 at 12:44pm
Bluebucket Thanks for your feedback. Appreciate it but I can not resist my urge to buy one with M1 max Wink

God helps with the Ejing thingy Clap


Posted By: jfkearney
Date Posted: 04/18/2013 at 9:00am
Just got my Donic Waldner Legend Carbon blade yesterday and had my first hit session.  I was using Friendship and YinHe blades before ordering this one.  I ordered the Legend with Tin Arc DHS rubber on the forehand and Friendship 729-08ES on the backhand.  The TinArc was amazing, accenting the incredible looping power of the Legend.  The 729-08ES however, just didn't allow for my attacking style on my backhand.  It seemed tha the rubber didn't have the aggressive arc I wanted.  I switched to the SST cross by Friendship which is a softer rubber allowing more dwell time and my backhand came alive.  I have read that many players feel a slight vibration with the legend but I however, felt none at all which is exactly what I like in a blade.  Possibly because of the chinese style rubber i use as opposed to the donic M3, etc. I have seen used in most of the posts here.  One unique quality with the legend I liked was the ease at which I could vary my loops.  Slow loops had extreme spin and I could transition to a fast loop with ease.  this was an invaluable weapon against the attacking blocker players in my club.  They struggled controlling the ball with all the variations I used while looping. Drives were great and actually had a second gear when smashing or attacking with quick flips on both sides.  I really enjoyed the speed glue sound that it has which many at my club accused me of using so much I had to show them my glue to verify I wasn't speed glueing...lol.  I compared this blade to the Yinhe T-10 and the Andro Super Core Cell Off+ as these are the fast blades I was using and it was a different league.  Although the T-10 was thicker yet lighter, I felt that it didn't have near the looping power of the legend and it was very big and bulky with its thick balsa center compared to the legend which, although heavier felt more like a weapon then the T-10.  The Andro Super cell off+ which was a fast blade to me before the Legend seemed very sluggish after using the legend for a hour.  I had to switch to speed rubber such as Friendship Focus III Sniper and 729-08ES in order to even play with it.  In short the legend is exactly what I was looking for and I have to say that megaspin's speed rating is very accurate and I appreciate that.  Using spin chinese style rubber adds dwell time which adds control to this explosive blade.  there is no blade better then this in its price range.


Posted By: Hans Regenkurt
Date Posted: 05/11/2013 at 7:54am
I have tried the Ovtcharov Carbospeed, my conclusion is that it is a lot softer than TBS, Primorac Carbon and of course, Schlager Carbon. It is also a bit softer than Yinhe T-2, speedwise it is almost the same, but the materials used are visibly different.

Compared to PC, the center ply is a little thicker but the top plies are a little thinner. The FL handle is very nice, it is bigger than Yinhe handles but not as large as a Stiga Legend. Weight distribution is also very good. It is very good for all out attacking, very stable.

It is not a substitute for BTY carbon blades and I have a hunch it is China made but do not get me wrong, it is a very good blade. It does not vibrate at all and contrary to belief, I would only rate it as OFF.


Posted By: ttping85
Date Posted: 05/11/2013 at 7:58am
+1 but off in the high range 

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Posted By: right2niru
Date Posted: 03/19/2014 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by Carryboy Carryboy wrote:

I received this blade about a week ago, maybe a bit longer. Inspecting the blade initially I would say the fit and finish is quite high with a very interesting color scheme used on the handle that really gives the blade a fun look. If we should use Butterfly blades as the benchmark then I would give the fit and finish of this particular blade 8.5 on a scale of 1 - 10. The materials used seem to be of very high quality with a nice hefty/thick Kiso Hinoki top ply evenly grained (really nice). As a matter of fact I would say that the quality of materials used would be a full 10.



Please be cautioned that I have not played any serious matches/games with this blade as yet. Used for the past week on my Robot and practice sessions with other players. So far this is my initial impressions and subject to change over the next two weeks which I will update as time goes on.

DONIC WALDNER LEGEND CARBON
Composition:    Kiso Hnoki/Carbon Fiber/Kiri/Carbon Fiber/Kiso Hinoki  5 Ply
Head Dimension: 155mm wide x 160mm high x 6mm thick
Handle Dimensions:  36mm wide x 24mm high x 100mm length
Weight:  79/80 grams  (My request due to the rubbers that would be used Bluefire)
Surface Feel:  Hard-
Blade elasticity: Stiff (However slight flex during power shots)
Blade Speed: OFF (True Off in every sense of the word)
Type of Play: Looping Purist ( A precision Looping Instrument)
Country of Manufacture: China



As I said these are my initial impressions and subject to change over time. I dressd the Waldner Legend Carbon with Donic Bluefire M2 Max forehand and Donic Coppa X3 Silver 2.0 backhand.



Initial bounce test I found the setup to be not overly bouncy on both sides which indicated in all probability good control and could be on the slow side (or so I thought). I may add that both rubbers are brand new so a bit of break in time was needed. Attachd Bluefire with a light coat of RC and Coppa X3 Silver with Donic Vario Clean and had it in the press on and off for over 48 hours (between playing time). Total setup weight with hand grip is 178 grams which kind of surprised me as I really did not expect the weight to be that heavy based on the blade weight. The blades head is oversized (a lot of real estate) at 155mm x 160mm and a cut sheet of M2  for this blade with a bit of over hang would be around 52 grams. The normal weight of this blade should average 85 grams so the same setup using a 85 gram example the weight would be 183 to 185 grams. The balance of the setup is more towards the head. The handle is very comfortable with the wings/throat  cut high like most Butterfly blades (The Gergely is a good example).



Short Game:  As I thought, very controlled as the setup is not overly bouncy. This is one aspect of this blade (setup) that bothered me at first but I got the hang of it after the fist few hours. You have to play every shot and in comparison to my Li Ping Kitex (Dimension of Kitex is 150mm wide x 155mm height x 6.75mm thick) and basically setup the same way (much more bouncy) a lot of rebound comes into play. I could actually load up the backspin on my short game without any nasty popups or the chance of going over the board unless I am not reading  properly what type of spin is coming back at me. In comparison to the Kitex, I had to adjust the push and touch angle a bit more horizontal in most instances with the Waldner Legend. Backhand and forehand flicks are easy and very controlled but not as spinny as I would like. I will see if it gets better in the coming weeks, probably a little change in technique. The blade has excellent feel and touch with slight vibration. It has a unique feel that is hard to explain, kind of a dryish feel (Kiso Hinoki) and a short quick vibration and pitch with a very sharp feel. Its as if the blade speaks to you letting you know exactly what is happening, a bad shot you know right away. In Comparison to the Kitex the Waldner Legend has more control in the short game but you have to be more active in the short game with the Waldner Legend (short game control very similar to the Nexy Spartacus with a sharper precise feel).



Attacking Shots: The Waldner Legend is a very fast, linear blade with many gears. Together with the Bluefire M2, it is as if both rubber and blade were built to compliment each other. Paired together this becomes one hell of a looping machine. There is a slight amount of flex (6mm) thick plus over sized head (155 x 160mm) plus M2 Max and a dash of that unique feel equals you are in looping territory, a consistent controlled looping instrument. The spin is just ridiculous!!! In comparison to the Kitex the Waldner Legend is more linear and controlled in attacks.  Loop drives borders on Insanity!! Counter loops are good but you have to keep a more horizontal stroke for this shot. However I find the Kitex a bit better at counter looping in this regard and that is probably due to the Kitex being .75mm thicker and less flexier.  Flat hits are fast and hammering and is just as fast as the Kitex. On the backhand side the Coppa X3 Silver while very good in the touch game plays very well on this blade on attacking strokes. While my backhand is weaker than my forehand I was able to loop on that side with good spin and backhand drives were very fast. As I said before the Waldner Legend does not have as much rebound as the Kitex so I was able to really unload with my backhand to finish the point or a beautiful high return and a easy put away.

I will add one more note to power shots. The Waldner Legend Carbon has another upper gear (Super Charged) or so it would seem to me. I will not say much about this aspect of the blade until I can get confirmation from another player here on the forum.



Blocks: I found blocking quite easy with this blade. You will find active blocking quite controlled for placement, if of course you have the time to do this. I am no expert at punch blocking but I did punch block a few back on the board when my training partner erroneously put some weak loose loops my way. I found with this blade/setup, I was putting a lot of balls back on the table, much more than usual which caused my opponents to make a lot of errors.

Serves: Quite good and as I said before due to the low rebound you can serve quite short or load up on some really fast serves.



In summary a quick comparison between the Waldner Legend, Li Ping Kitex, Nexy Spartacus and Nexy Calix;

Speed: WL=LPK>NC>NS
Spin: WL=NS=LPK>NC
Control: WL=NS>LPK>NC
Flex: NC>NS>WL>LPK
Vibration: NS>NC>WL>LPK
Value for Money: WL=LPK>NS>NC

I have have been playing with this blade over the last two weeks after coming off of the Li Ping Kitex before that. With the Waldner Legend I have lost a few games and I have won a lot, and I have had fun during both loosing and winning. The Donic Waldner Legend Carbon is the most linear blade I have ever used. For the money this blade is a must try, for value two thumbs up. At around US$70 I am hard pressed to name any blade at twice the price that I can think of that is truly much better than the Waldner Legend Carbon. As you can see from the pictures shown this blade looks like a fun blade especially with both rubbers used, the color scheme really attracts a lot of stares. Everyone is curious about the Bluefire M2 and the Waldner Legend Carbon, and even the almost antique Coppa X3 Silver has gotten a lot of admiration. I have been using Bluefire M2 for near two months now on my Kitex and no one ever noticed or gave it a second glance. The first minute on the Waldner Legend Carbon and it was in Hollywood, WOW!!!





My pictures here - 


 
Most of what @carryboy mentioned above are very accurate as far as this blade's characteristics is concerned and in my impression coming from a "pure wood" to "composite " blade i was kinda debating if i would miss the feeling , close to the table game as well as short game ; however this blade proved me wrong and i feel i could control all gears in the blade very well possibly because it is very linear which i like a lot in a blade. 
It took me a few days/ about a week to actually get used to the feel of this blade and am still learning the response of the blade but all it has been is a very joyful experience and it really brought out a different beast out of me Tongue during game plays. 
In the past even though i have tried few carbon / arylate carbon didn't like any of those not sure if it was because they were 7 ply's composite ( not 5 ply like this one ) or perhaps they have more of a kick effect due to top layer being thin however in this blade the top layers of kiso hinoki are really thick which i really like a lot . It helps a lot for my drop shots as well as pushes and on drives the carbon kicks in and really add's the Oomph... 
All in all it has been a great 3 week ride with this blade and have been enjoying every bit of it . The quality and the finish for this priced a blade is stunning. The top ply(kiso hinoki) simply looks and feels amazing.

My 2 cents to anybody looking to try out carbon blade moving on from 5 ply all wood this is definitely something one shouldn't miss before investing into expensive one's in the market. 


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ZJK SZLC |5Q+


Posted By: puppy412
Date Posted: 03/20/2014 at 12:01am
it would be nice if you compared with butterfly's primorac carbon.


Posted By: right2niru
Date Posted: 03/20/2014 at 1:13am
Originally posted by puppy412 puppy412 wrote:

it would be nice if you compared with butterfly's primorac carbon.
Only Carbon / composite i have played with for sometime were Butterfly Michael Maze (Arylate / Carbon) and Donic wander senso carbon. I haven't played with very many carbon blades from butterfly and not specifically the one's you have mentioned here. 


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ZJK SZLC |5Q+


Posted By: Believer
Date Posted: 04/26/2014 at 7:54am
Folks,

Can someone compare the waldner legend with 729 v6 aramid carbon please? Thanks


Posted By: Bran
Date Posted: 01/29/2015 at 12:17pm
Hi guys, and AndySmith in particular, what are this blade's strengths and weaknesses relative to the Rossi Emotion?

I could infer: greater speed, stiffer, more power, but I'm not so sure about the shortcomings. How good is it in the short game, for looping, for blocking? Is it much bouncier for touch shots?

Is it very carbon-y, or relatively woody?

Does the oversize head make it very head heavy, and how is it balanced? I'm a bit worried about this.

I'm fairly happy with the Emotion, which is a wonderful do-it-all blade. Can't flaw it, yet I can't help but want to expand my blade knowledge… for example, I don't know much about hinoki, and I don't think the Emotion plays or feel like a typical hinoki blade due to the thin layer, so I'm still curious as to how hinoki feels.


Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 01/30/2015 at 3:38pm
Bran, see my review!! I am now on my second Donic Waldner Legend Carbon. Great Blade!!!


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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: patrickhrdlicka
Date Posted: 01/30/2015 at 3:40pm
Ha Bran - what a coincidence!

I will be testing these two blades at today's practice !! I'll post a quick comparative review tomorrow.


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Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69419&title=feedback-patrickhrdlicka

USATT rating: 2k+


Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 01/30/2015 at 4:07pm
right2niru, I am not seeing your pictures loading, is it still there??


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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: right2niru
Date Posted: 01/31/2015 at 1:32am
I am not sure , possibly removed due to space . I can send you a PM of the same if you need to look at . 

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ZJK SZLC |5Q+


Posted By: Bran
Date Posted: 02/06/2015 at 2:07am
Thank you Carryboy, I have made up my mind thanks to the replies I was given in the Rossi Emotion thread – and of course to your initial review. I haven't ordered it yet but I will.

I'll post a review once I've played it. I may wait till the end of the season for this, don't wanna mess around till then.


Posted By: Bran
Date Posted: 02/22/2015 at 7:10am
I tested the WLC for 30 min. I think it's pretty much in line with what was described.

The blade quality was OK, handle was a bit rough, which I don't mind, but the hinoki plies on FH and BH looked like they split vertically prior to gluing and still were glued side-by-side.

Compared to the Joola Rossi Emotion (RE), its bigger head size means it's not as easy to move around. It's probably a matter of habit. I put on new sheets of T05 and JP02.

The carbon layer and the hinoki are thicker than the RE's, and so the blade feels number, softer, and the hinoki effect is more pronounced. I generally like a touch more hardness and more vibes, because I mostly loop-drive on my FH (normal loop on the BH) and like hitting as well. For this, the RE is better, though at full power the WLC actually manages pretty well in flat hitting, thanks to the thick carbon layer.

It is faster, bouncier and more powerful. It's also stiffer, but it's hidden by the softness until you start hitting really hard, and this is where you can feel the blade's power. At medium gear, the speed doesn't feel that much more than the RE's. It feels fuller and more stable in the high gear.

The throw is a tad higher than the RE, so medium-high. Makes it great for looping mid-distance. Flicking I found good as well. The short game was good but I haven't grasped yet at what input strength the blade starts becoming bouncy. Dwell is good but I could feel my loops weren't as spinny – this doesn't say anything about the blade's abilities, just that I'm not yet used to it.

I think the main grips I have with it are the head size and the numbness. My loops weren't as spinny and it was hard knowing what to adjust given the lack of feedback. It's quite usual to have to adjust a bit your timing and stroke with a new blade, but numbness makes it harder.

I'll need to play more with it to make up my mind about this blade. It has undeniable qualities, but I'm worried it will just magnify my game, with its strengths and weaknesses. I may choose to revert to a slower blade to improve my consistency, at the cost of some power and direct kills, before going back to a more powerful blade once I've developed a "feel" for that consistency.


Posted By: gronkus
Date Posted: 02/23/2015 at 3:24pm
I'm definitely considering this blade with either Bluefire M3 or Bluefire JP 03 rubber. Has anyone played with both on this blade and could offer their impressions on the differences in how each would play on the Legend?


Posted By: NoRema
Date Posted: 02/23/2015 at 3:26pm
M3. Friend uses tenergy on it but he tried m3 rakza7 and jp03 first. The large pores of m3 helped the control enough to make such a fast blade justifiable.

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http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70289&title=feedback-norema" rel="nofollow">

Click the picture for feedback ^


Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 02/24/2015 at 10:51am
Bran, I tried a Tenergy 05 max on the legend the other day and after two weeks I pretty much took it off. I found what you described (numbness) in feel with that combination. In addition I found the WLC with 05 slow and lumbering. However It feels more medium to medium plus to me but then again feel is subjective.

As I had stated earlier you have to be mindful of the rubber combination as the setup can become quite head heavy. Grip tape does help with the head heaviness!!


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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: Bran
Date Posted: 02/24/2015 at 1:37pm
Thanks Carryboy.

Bit reluctant to change my FH rubber, T05 has been my constant for a while and I don't want to start thinking about it. The rubber issue did occur to me, I did turn and feel the JP02 was crisper, though I didn't like the feel initially.

As for grip tape, I also don't like using one, so this limits my options.


Posted By: ahsq
Date Posted: 06/16/2015 at 1:22pm
any updates on the performances on the Waldner Legend or the Carbospeed?

Have you guys also played Xiom Axelo to compare the Donic blades??


-------------
FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped
Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped



Posted By: ahsq
Date Posted: 10/01/2015 at 4:00pm
Its been months by now, have you guys any updates on the Waldner Legend or the Carbospeed? I am seeing positive reviews on both blades and I dont know what one to pick. 

-------------
FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped
Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped



Posted By: Bran
Date Posted: 10/01/2015 at 6:00pm
I didn't stay with the WLC. It was quite fast, but I didn't like the feel and couldn't feel I was getting enough spin with it with my T05, at least not with my natural stroke. The JP02 felt better in comparison, and back then I had no intention to start testing different FH rubbers, I wanted a blade which worked directly with the T05.

Overall I still didn't like it. Not enough dwell, too stiff, and it made me realise I don't like hinoki, or at least not hinoki carbon blades, my current Rossi Emotion being the exception.


Posted By: amitmnagarwal
Date Posted: 12/13/2016 at 12:35pm
Any new updates to Donic Waldner Legend blade. 

Any new user f/b. ?


-------------
Amit Agarwal

India,Mumbai

Blade : Michael Maze

FH : Acuda S3 2.0 mm
BH : Rakza 7 Soft max


Posted By: Wolf
Date Posted: 12/17/2016 at 4:41am
We tried it at the club when it came out as a new Donic W.L.C. I agree that Tenergy 05 on it worked very well , indeed hardly at all . Far better it played with Tenergy 64 2.1 , not bad at all . Now not long ago, I had it on one night, borrowed from a friend and that there has on the front side of the Blue Fire M1-max ,on the back side of the Victas Stiff 2.0 and it played even better than I remember playing from last time with the tenergy . Blue Fire M1 provides sufficient control for good income , good spin and feel for a strong ending . The total dweel I would say is just right . Victas Stiff on the rear side is, for me, harder than I like , personally, I'd vote for Limber ,but it plays also very well mainly for the sharp chop and a great block . Overall, a good combo for aggressive players .
W.


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Donic Crest Off
FH-Donic Acuda S2 Max
BH-Tibhar ELP 1.9

Donic Crest AR+
FH-Joola Maxxxp 2.0
BH-Joola Rhyzm Tech 2.0



Posted By: jonytdm
Date Posted: 06/09/2018 at 1:18pm
hi how is that compared to donic waldned legend and tsp hino carbon power?



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