Best 1-ply Hinoki Blade
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Topic: Best 1-ply Hinoki Blade
Posted By: -3db
Subject: Best 1-ply Hinoki Blade
Date Posted: 03/15/2006 at 9:01pm
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Hi guys, since 1-ply hinoki is such a hot topic in this forum, can anyone give me some comments on each of these blades? 1) Butterfly KTS 2) Darker Speed90 10mm 3) Nittaku Rorin 4) Kokutaku �����I ���BNo.1D100 I plan to invest on one of these, but not sure which one to get... Many thanks!!! ------------- ========================= Nittaku Violin C Haifu BW II National Version 37deg Sriver FX |
Replies:
Posted By: Sabito
Date Posted: 03/15/2006 at 9:13pm
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If i was you, I would get for sure the butterfly kts, if you cant afford it then the darker speed 90 10mm. Good Luck maybe ryno, aeoliah, and stigafly can advice you with good info |
Posted By: -3db
Date Posted: 03/15/2006 at 9:21pm
Why did you say you would get KTS? any particular reasons?
------------- ========================= Nittaku Violin C Haifu BW II National Version 37deg Sriver FX |
Sabito wrote:Posted By: ryno
Date Posted: 03/15/2006 at 9:50pm
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KTS and darker speed 90 10mm are on the same level ,good luck finding either right now .The rorin is good just a cheaper version grade it just below the cypress s.If you like nittaku look at the cho blade never tried the kokutaku but i think it is similiar to the nittaku cho blade.If you loop and play mid distance the kts,darker 90 are you best choices.You must pick a blade for your style ------------- Red Label Kim Taek Soo (83g) Almana Sound Synergy Tech (max) |
Posted By: Sabito
Date Posted: 03/15/2006 at 10:01pm
| yup, thats what these guys have taught me, darker speed 90 and kts are the best, I would choose kts because I trust a lot in butterfly's jap penhold products, and I've heard the best comments of the KTS. |
Posted By: -3db
Date Posted: 03/15/2006 at 11:00pm
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Thanks for your comments guys!
Any comments on whether I should choose a light or heavy weight? how will it be different in terms of speed and control? ------------- ========================= Nittaku Violin C Haifu BW II National Version 37deg Sriver FX |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 03/15/2006 at 11:33pm
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-3db, when I changed from Aeolus to Cypress, I felt the difference in thickness on my grip, although the difference is only 0,3 mm. For this reason I am hesitating to buy 10 mm thick blade.
Ryno, Please tell me what is the background of your statement that KTS has the same quality with Darker Speed 90 10 mm, because I am thinking to buy one with 10 mm thickness but I am afraid that it will be uneasy for me to hold. Then, what is your opinion about KTS and Speed 70 10 mm ? ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: DatSuKid
Date Posted: 03/16/2006 at 12:39am
Hmm i think i've tried a japanese one ply hinoki but it had no control. Im not very fond of Hinoki i'd go with something with a balsa core. ------------- Hard work and self-determination will surpass talent. Blade-Homemade BirchBalsaBullet (3B JSX) FH - DHS G666 BH - LKT PRO XT |
Posted By: -3db
Date Posted: 03/16/2006 at 11:29am
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Hey Aeoliah, have you seen how KTS and RSM sand their blades? may be you have to do the same.. ------------- ========================= Nittaku Violin C Haifu BW II National Version 37deg Sriver FX |
Posted By: Ikaros21
Date Posted: 03/16/2006 at 12:18pm
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If you are buying KTS o darker speed 90 that means that you must be a very good player with a superior footwork than us and a winning forehand. I know you guys have gone a little exited about all the post regarding 1 ply j-pen lately but it would be better if you check and improve your game instead of buying a faster blade with less control. I am telling you because I played with cypress and bryce and it was superb fast and uncontrolabe. if you are a penholder with poor footwork and have bad habits stick with c-pen and do RPB. ------------- I'm going up 1986 NooB Blade: Galaxy T4 FH: Globe 999 BH: Butterfly Cermet I'm not re-gluing anymore |
Posted By: ottoyuen
Date Posted: 03/16/2006 at 1:19pm
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Yes, 3db is a very strong & fast player, I played with him before, got skunked totally |
Posted By: leeyong
Date Posted: 03/16/2006 at 1:39pm
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Ikaros21, I am in my 30's, I like hinoki for it's forehand strength and topspin game. My traditional backhand is better than my partners, never try RPB, too old to learn new tricks. push and blocks are o.k. BUT backspin and chop is where I suck when using hinoki. I just push or flick instead. My footwork sucks as well, however my backhand aren't too bad, I get away with it. and yes, I use sriver, I think most people would agree BRYCE is deadly for amatuers like me in combination with hinoki (I play 3-4 times a month only, recreationally). deadly meaning I cannot control it. did you try cypress with sriver instead? Ottoyuen, I think it is the "kimochi" of KTS, is like having senkoh-1 (20years ago), cypress (10years ago), and KTS (now). pyscology has to have some effect. ------------- BTY SC ST BH: Bryce FX 2.1 FH: Sriver L 2.1 Stiga CL cpen FH: Globe 999T on saviga 2.2 BH: Yasaka Mark V soft Others: KTS, Darker speed 90, 30 (10mm) Jpen, Nittaku Septear ST, DHS 032 CS |
Posted By: ottoyuen
Date Posted: 03/16/2006 at 1:49pm
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leeyong, So you believe it's just a "kimochi" of KTS for nowadays? It could be. Ok, regardless the "kimochi" of KTS, in terms of the wood quality, how do you find the difference between Darker Speed90 and KTS? |
Posted By: jake_my
Date Posted: 03/16/2006 at 3:20pm
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For those of you who can't handle the speed of Bryce then go for the Bryce fx. Its a little friendlier and should be treated a completely different rubber if you play it to the max. Its much more manageable and a good hinoki blade should go well with it.
Ottoyuen, I seriously think there is little perceptible difference in the "quality of the wood" between the brands. Its more between different batches of blades. Unless you are able to choose your blades there is little you can do about the quality. There is some quality control by the company to differentiate its products against those that are vastly inferior, but I do think that the top end products are comparable. Other factors include size and balance of the blades, handle shape and so on. If you can afford it just go for the KTS and never ask this question again. |
Posted By: leeyong
Date Posted: 03/16/2006 at 3:53pm
 ------------- BTY SC ST BH: Bryce FX 2.1 FH: Sriver L 2.1 Stiga CL cpen FH: Globe 999T on saviga 2.2 BH: Yasaka Mark V soft Others: KTS, Darker speed 90, 30 (10mm) Jpen, Nittaku Septear ST, DHS 032 CS |
Posted By: Sabito
Date Posted: 03/16/2006 at 4:42pm
ohh, looks sooo delicius ...
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Posted By: jc48573
Date Posted: 03/16/2006 at 5:01pm
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one thing about hinoki wood is that it provides w/ a lot of speed and power, which makes u loose the feel between the ball and blade, but really if u want to something fast then go for hinoki. ------------- Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra, Primorac 2000 CS (traditional only) FH: Globe 999/999T BH: Sriver-D13-L, Sriver EL (RPB) |
Posted By: StigaFly
Date Posted: 03/16/2006 at 5:05pm
Sounds like you never try a hinoki blade. ------------- StigaFly - Mixed with the Best |
Posted By: jc48573
Date Posted: 03/16/2006 at 5:07pm
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i've tried hinoki j pen blade before and it really lacks "feel" ------------- Blade: Yasaka Gatien Extra, Primorac 2000 CS (traditional only) FH: Globe 999/999T BH: Sriver-D13-L, Sriver EL (RPB) |
Posted By: -3db
Date Posted: 03/16/2006 at 10:30pm
Thanks for your complements ottoyuen! I find the problem with my game (probably same to many 1-ply jpen players) is that once you are on fire that day, no one could stop you, but otherwise your backhand is still a clear weakness to your opponent. but anyway, that doesn't stop me from playing this style. Hmm, i have now made up my mind about which blades to get. They are: 1) Darker speed90 (for its low price and quality) 2) Xiom Athena Platinum Special (simply because of RSM) what do you guys think? ------------- ========================= Nittaku Violin C Haifu BW II National Version 37deg Sriver FX |
Posted By: jake_my
Date Posted: 03/17/2006 at 2:39pm
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3db
good choice! save money on the KTS and get two blades for the price of one. |
Posted By: -3db
Date Posted: 03/17/2006 at 3:18pm
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Thanks jake_my! But I am in a little doubt about the quality of the XIOM blade since nobody really talks about it... ------------- ========================= Nittaku Violin C Haifu BW II National Version 37deg Sriver FX |
Posted By: jake_my
Date Posted: 03/18/2006 at 12:23am
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3db
You are a pioneer. It looks as good the best of them. Do let us know how it plays. I expect the blades to defer only marginally. Would appreciate some pictures once you get them. |
Posted By: 7homuz
Date Posted: 03/18/2006 at 2:19am
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the craftsmanship should be great on the Xiom blades, its just that it doesn't have much international marketing so no one really played with one yet. Its big in Korea though... i feel they are expensive though, and you might get a better deal with a darker blade. ------------- Blade:Darker 7P-2A Forehand: Donic Bluefire M2 MAX Backhand: Palio CK531A 0.6 |
Posted By: PingPongPang
Date Posted: 03/18/2006 at 10:03pm
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I think the term "feel" is quite personal. Some like the Chinese feel, some like European feel.
lol..my friend is so busy in Korea after getting a job. She can't have time to do that for me. I don't want to bother her much either since she's that far. Suck that I can't try one of them blades. Their blades look good with all the packaging and stuff. Not sure the packaging stuff would make it deceiving. I agree to a lot of you say that go for Darker. It's a better/safer/easier get. At least if I would get the exact same one that I have now if mine got stolen. Is Kim Taek Soo still playing in any Korean local events? Man, I would like to see him play. I don't see Ryu Seung Min that much in the last few international events. Looks like he's struggling to find his winning rhythm. Chiang Peng Lung is now even not in the top20. 
------------- Explorer kinetic SC 729 Higher Sriver EL |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 03/19/2006 at 5:39am
Spinning wheel, what goes up must come down some time, replaced by new ones. That's life, we have to take it as it comes ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: Adib
Date Posted: 04/03/2006 at 6:00am
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Hey everybody, I had the KTS Blade, when 1st time I buying it I'm feel more passion to used it but after 2 or 3 times trainning, I feel it very powerful and mostly I feel give up when I train the strokes because I can't control the ball. The most sadly is my friends asking me throw this blade in to rubbish. Ever I'm used the Sriver-D13 rubber but I can't win several friendly game which I looks it more to easily to me. Since that situation, I feel give to used it and I use back the Butterfly Cypress and Super Senkoh-95. For information, I have 2 blades of Butterfly Super Senkoh-95 because I love it cause its less 0.5mm than KTS and I'm trying to sold up my KTS to Jake_my and others. However my coach advise me to stick back this blade due my footwork really fast(not fast like pro player) and playing more aggresive topspin. Start from that I using back the KTS and I more tranning my self to the strokes also trying control the feeling of the blade. Nowadays, I more feel comfortable using the KTS ever lots people saying this blade can make me lost of the control. |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 04/03/2006 at 9:45am
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I would say either you keep the KTS for future use when you are ready for it, or use a slow rubber to compensate the speed of the KTS, but if I were you I would not sell it. ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: Adib
Date Posted: 04/03/2006 at 9:51am
| Thanks aeoliah, I would not sell to anybody since I bought this blade at Main Butterfly Factory and that day its my lucking day which I got Kim Taek Soo sign on my blade. I'm really pround by using my blade. |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 04/04/2006 at 2:24am
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However I am still curious about the speed. According to the rating from Butterfly, the speed is 10, which is the same with Aeolus (which I have), but I don't think that Aeolus has much difference in speed compared to my Cypress or 9 mm Darker Speed 90.
Congratulations on your new blade!  ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/07/2006 at 11:24am
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This is my first post and I have been living and working in Japan for about 2 years now. I have joined a table tennis club and there are many good J-Pen players in my club. Many of the players in my club favor Kiso Hinoki J-pen rackets made by Kokutaku, Nittaku, and Darker. When I first joined the club I had never heard of Kokutaku, but as I started to try out some of their Kokutaku rackets I realized that the Kiso Hinoki quality and build was often better than those of Butterfly and other J-pen rackets. I found out from my table tennis coach who owns a Pro Table Tennis shop that the reason why Kokutaku rackets are often better in quality and build is because they have a good stock of high quality Kiso Hinoki wood that is between 230 to 250 years old and in the process of making their J-pen rackets they dry the Kiso Hinoki for 6 years as opposed to many other companies that only dry their Kiso Hinoki for 1 or sometimes 3 years. I have several Kokutaku rackets and I believe that they are very good and I would recommend people to try one if they want to. Sorry for the long post. :) ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 05/08/2006 at 12:49am
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And what are their comments on Darker blades ? ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/08/2006 at 1:59am
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Many people in my club really like their Darker blades due to the quality and price. I have a Darker Speed 90 and I think it is nice and worth the money as opposed to Butterfly's J-pens. Butterfly blades are sometimes a little on the heavy side due to the drying process which is often only 1 year because they want to mass produce their blades quickly. Overall Darker is great and actually from what I have seen and heard, more people in Japan prefer Darker, Kokutaku, and Nittaku Kiso Hinoki rackets as opposed to Butterfly's Kiso Hinoki rackets. ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 05/08/2006 at 5:21am
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What do they prefer (percentage wise), Darker or Kokutaku ? ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/08/2006 at 10:52am
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I would say that it is about 50 50 in my club and when it is time to change blades, most people in my club are kind of brand loyal and try to get the same model again. But some of the older members of my club often say they like Kokutaku a little more because the blades are a bit lighter than some Darker blades and they don't mind paying 2000 or 3000 yen for a blade they will use for probably another 5 or 6 years. I hope this information helps. ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/08/2006 at 12:41pm
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I think one of the cool things about playing and buying table tennis in Japan is actually going to the pro table tennis shops and picking out the racket, especially the J-pen you want. I think I am in a unique situation because my coach who is also a former champion of Japan has a close relationship with the president of Kokutaku. Every year he and the Kokutaku president get together and they negotiate a price and quantity of special Kokutaku Kiso Hinoki J-pens. My coach owns a pro table tennis shop called Hero Sports and every year Kokutaku makes 20 special J-pens called the Hero Special and it is actually much higher in quality and weighs less the average 10mm J-pen. I got mine from his shop and my J-pen is 10.15mm, but it is only 81 grams which is quite rare for such a think J-pen. Since I use to have a Butterfly Kim Taek, I think for the money and quality Kokutaku, Darker, and Nittaku are often better in quality and price than Butterlfy's J-pens. ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 05/08/2006 at 8:01pm
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Wow ! You are very lucky to be in such favourable situation. May I have one more question ?
I would like very much to know which type of Carbon J-pen is popular in Japan (especially Darker or Kokutaku). Thanks. ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/08/2006 at 9:46pm
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Actually from what I have seen Carbon J-pen's are not as popular as as 1 ply Kiso Hinoki blades. But I have seen some people use the Butterfly Lendido, which is a Arylate Carbon racket. I have looked at many new table tennis cataloges and think their is a reemphasis on thicker 1 Ply Kiso Hinoki rackets now because the seems to be a shortage of really high quality Kiso Hinoki now. It is illegal to cut down a Kiso Hinoki tree that is 300 years old and older in Japan. The best Kiso Hinoki wood you can buy is now about 230 to 250 years old and Kokutaku currently has the best stock of this old Kiso Hinoki wood. I hope this information is helpful. ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/08/2006 at 9:59pm
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I think Kokutaku's J-pen Laser Drive is quite good because it has a high quality Kiso Hinoki with fiberglass and carbon in the middle. I have the Kokutaku Laser Carbon shake hand which is the J-pen Laser Drive equivilant. I would honestly have to say I think the Laser Carbon shakehand has better control, more feel, lighter and is softer than the Butterfly's Timo Ball Spirit. I think Darker does not make carbon J-pen's because the tradition of their company is in making 1 ply Hinoki J-pens, but they do have carbon shake hand rackets. I hope this information helps. ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: silvalis
Date Posted: 05/08/2006 at 10:26pm
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Has anyone tried that Darker Tanpan 1ply Hinoki shakehand blade? ------------- Potato Face |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 05/09/2006 at 12:13am
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Thanks for your information Malvin. ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/09/2006 at 5:52am
No problem aeoliah, please ask me more questions because I am very happy to answer them. ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 05/09/2006 at 8:33am
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Haha, in that case I have two more questions: Can you ask your coach what is the difference between 9 mm and 10 mm single ply Hinoki J-pen blade in performance? I have already one blade 9 mm, is it worth it to buy another one with 10 mm thickness? ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 05/09/2006 at 9:10am
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Sorry Malvin, where can I get Kokutaku Hinoki 10 mm ? At iruiru there is only 9 mm thick.
If I can get Darker 10 mm weighing 81 gram, would you classify it as higher quality also, or do you still say Kokutaku is better ? That sums up to 4 questions. ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/09/2006 at 9:57am
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I think quality of a Kiso Hinoki is merited from how straight the lines are are, how dense the lines are and how long it has been dried (weight). In my new Kokutaku catalogue it advertises a new 10mm Super Cho 1D100 model. The advertised price of this racket is 20,000 yen before tax, but I think iruiru gives you 20% discount on that so it would be like 16,000 yen. My coach just got his new Kokutaku goods in last week, so iruiru might not have recieved their new Kokutaku goods yet. About weight, it is often better to get a lighter Kiso Hinoki J-pen because your rubber might be heavy, but maybe not. The reason why older Kiso Hinoki is more expensive is because their is often higher grain density and the wood is often dried for a longer period of time, thus reducing the weight of the racket. I think a good way to maybe get a good 10mm Kokutaku or Darker racket is by emailing iruiru about the availiablity of the racket and if they get a batch of them, ask them to weigh them out and ask them to look for the one with the straightest lines. The most important thing is that all the lines are pointing in the same direction and personally I like my 10mm J-pens 85 grams or less. But actually finding a 10mm Kokutaku or Darker under 85 grams is pretty difficult because even in a batch of 10mm J-pens, the range can go from 78 to 108 grams. In th batch of Kokutaku Hero Special rackets their was a range from 79 to 97 grams. The reason I did not select the 78 gram one was because the lines were not as straight and pointing in the same direction as the one I got that is 81 grams. Overall 2 or 3 grams really does not make that big of a difference, but anything over 5 usually makes a difference. So in selecting a 10mm J-pen whether it is Kokutaku or Darker, try to find one that 1.) has really straight lines and the lines are densely packed together and 2.) try not to get one that is too heavy. I truthfully like Kokutaku J-pens a little more, but I also have a Darker Speed 90 and think that it is an excellent racket also. So depending on your budget for 10mm Kiso Hinoki J-pens, you can go with either Darker or Kokutaku. If you have any more questions please ask because I am more than happy to share what I know. ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/09/2006 at 10:10am
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About whether to go with a 9mm or 10mm Kiso Hinoki racket, I think it really depends on your style of game. Both the 9mm and 10mm are great for looping if you have the technique down, but the 9mm usually provides more control for more technical shots and for easier net play as opposed to a 10mm Kiso Hinoki racket which is often more powerful, but control is sacrificed. If you play like Ryu Seung Min, then 10mm is the way to go, but if you play more like Chiang Peng Lung, then 9mm is the way to go. I talked to my coach today and asked him what table tennis companies get the best Kiso Hinoki and he said 1. Kokutaku, 2. Nittaku, 3. Darker, and 4. Butterfly. I also have a Nittaku Cho Takusen A racket which is 9mm and it is very very good and great for a control game, but enough power when needed. But another option to consider is a 9.5mm racket. You can ask iruiru to call Kokutaku and have them make you a custom Super Cho 1D100 Kiso Hinoki J-pen for you that is 9.5mm if you are willing to pay 20,000 yen for this racket. Please post more questions if you have any more and I will do my best to answer them. ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 05/09/2006 at 11:34pm
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If 10 mm will have more speed but less control, then it is not for me because I am not that good. If I buy another good quality Kokutaku 9 mm, what do you think the difference will be compared to my Darker Speed 90 with thickness 9 mm?
Perhaps I will try to get one below 80 grams. At iruiru there is only Super Cho Tokusen Bishu No.1D100 with thickness 9 mm, price Yen.9.600,- which is actually cheaper than Darker Speed 90 which costs Yen.10.400,- (9 mm thick). Is this the new type you are referring (maybe not because it is much cheaper)? The more I ask, the more I am getting confused.  ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/10/2006 at 12:52am
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The 10mm Super Cho Kiso Hinoki blade from Kokutaku is not availiable on iruiru yet. It is interesting because not all stores get or carry Kokutaku rackets. For example I went to a table tennis pro shop in Sendai yesterday and they did not carry any Kokutaku products. But between choosing between the Darker Speed 90 9mm and Kokutaku 9mm, I would ask iruiru to look for the straightness and density of the lines first, then weigh the rackets out. If you are looking into a 9mm, try to find one that is between 78 to 85 grams, otherwise it can get heavy when you put rubber on it. 1 ply Kiso Hinoki blades really vary from blade to blade, so based on iruiru's inventory of Kokutaku and Darker blades, ask for a racket which has straight lines that are pointing up in the same direction and that the lines are densely packed together. I honestly think if you can spend a little extra money, get the 9mm blade that has the best straight line and weight ratio. But really you actually can not go wrong with either blade, so email iruiru what you want and ask if they have that or those rackets in stock. Please ask more questions because I like to help you out. ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 05/10/2006 at 2:01am
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Maybe I should ask iruiru to contact Kokutaku for the Super Cho 1D100 Kiso Hinoki in 9 mm. Thank you for your fast reply and your patience with me. ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/10/2006 at 5:07am
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I think it usually takes about 1 week or 10 business days for a company to restock a certain product. I think if you want to get a quality 1 ply Kisp Hinoki racket, the process can be quite long and the questions can be many. I was a J-pen player for 12 years, but I switched to shakehand a few years ago. I still love playing with J-pen and I teach kids in my local table tennis club on Sunday nights. Over the years I learned many things about Kiso Hinoki rackets and I am very happy to share with you what I know. ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: touch
Date Posted: 05/10/2006 at 10:14pm
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Hi Malvin
How about the quality of Juic 1 ply kisohinoki blade compare to Kokutaku or Darker? (Only Juic is available here in Thailand). best regards, |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/10/2006 at 10:34pm
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I am not sure about JUIC 1 ply Kiso Hinoki J-pens because I have never seen it in a store and I have only seen them in catalogues. I have seen the JUIC 1 ply shake hand and it is really heavy (about 95 to 105 grams) for the racket alone. This happens because JUIC only dries tries Kiso Hinoki 1 Plys for a short period of time. In comparison to Darker or Kokutaku, go with Kokutaku or Darker all the way because of they have better quality Kiso Hinoki. ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: touch
Date Posted: 05/11/2006 at 4:37am
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I'm now using Juic Kisohinoki shakehand blade for about 4 weeks.My Juic weight about 88 gram. I love to play 1 ply blade because I would like to have one when I was teenager but I don't have enough money to buy it.In that time there were only 2 brand that had 1 ply blade , one was Nittaku and the other was YSP.But now Nittaku are not produce a 1 ply shakehand blade and YSP brand is no longer exist. When I decided to buy new blade I only find that Juic and Galaxy have 1 ply blade.Quite sad to know Kokutaku and Darker too late.
Now I'm interested in buying another carbon blade.In fact I plan to buy Bty Timo Boll Spirit but Malvin recommend Kokutaku Laser Carbon. Could you please write a minireview? |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/11/2006 at 5:41am
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Hello Touch,
The Kokutaku Laser Carbon weighs between 78 to 82 grams (light), has outstanding control (even more than the Timo Boll Spirit), and has enough speed to hit winners. The head of the racket is smaller than most rackets. This racket is for players who like OFF rackets. This is not a OFF+ racket. The most surprising thing about this racket is the ball touch and good net play of this racket. It is great feel and all the people that own this racket, including me have nothing but good things to say about this racket. It has it all basically, but this is an underrated racket because it does not get the same marketing as the Bty TBS. Everyone I know who has compared this racket to TBS says this racket is superior in all categories and I agree with them completely. It is a little pricey at 8,000 yen at iruiru, but it is a fantastic racket. I hope this information helps you. ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: touch
Date Posted: 05/12/2006 at 10:58pm
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Thank you Malvin!
I've already ordered Laser Carbon from iruiru.com . I plan to use Mark Vxs and Stiga inova ultralight on it. About 1 ply hinoki of Darker Tanpan and Juic , the picture (esp. on handle) are almost identical . I'm afraid that I'll have 2 identical blade if I buy Darker Tanpan in future. The Juic picture - www.juic.co.jp/product/racket/kisohinoki.html |
Posted By: Adib
Date Posted: 05/12/2006 at 11:08pm
| Malvin, Whats is different the BTY Super Senkoh-95 and Cypress? I decided to buying Darker 90. |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 05/12/2006 at 11:11pm
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Good choice Adib, Darker is more comfortable to hold than Cypress (I have both). ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: Adib
Date Posted: 05/12/2006 at 11:33pm
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Thanks aeoliah, ever I have the KTS but I would try the Darker Speed 90 but what is different 10mm and 9mm? |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/13/2006 at 5:41am
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Hello Adib,
The difference between Cypress and Bty Senkoh 95 is that the Senkoh 95 is 9.5mm and the Kiso Hinoki is actually not that soft at all. The kiso hinoki quality for the Senkoh 95 is actally not that good, but definately not the worst I have seen. Bty Cypress is 9mm and the quality of the blade is much better than Senkoh 95. But for the money and quality go with Kokutaku, Nittaku, or Darker for 1 ply Kiso Hinoki blades. I hope this information is helpful.
Malvin ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: Adib
Date Posted: 05/13/2006 at 7:27am
| Thanks Malvin, however my frenz have few question to before there get own blade. How much different hardness of Super Senkoh-95 between Cypress? I'm understand that Malaysia just 1 shops selling Kokutaku. |
Posted By: Adib
Date Posted: 05/13/2006 at 7:33am
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For malvin: Sorry I asking you others question but I need know the Xiom blade. I never heard it before. So could you comment this 1-ply hinoki blade and where its come from. THANKS
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Posted By: Adib
Date Posted: 05/13/2006 at 7:37am
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At the back of the blade:
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Posted By: ryno
Date Posted: 05/13/2006 at 8:41am
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I actually have a xiom jpen i just got it this week.The blade is one of the best i have tried.It have the rsm platinum that looks like the vulcan.The biggest difference i have noticed with my xiom blade is the control and feel.The only thing is they are kinda expensive but all the highest grade hinoki j pens are.My xiom plays kinda like my old kts with more control.I have some pics if you want me to email them to you just pm me.Oh also i don't think they come with the case anymore.I ordered mine directly from champion ------------- Red Label Kim Taek Soo (83g) Almana Sound Synergy Tech (max) |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/13/2006 at 10:19am
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Yes I am in complete agreement with ryno. If you want a top grade 1 ply Kiso Hinoki blade, there is a price correlation with the quality of the blade. My Hero Special cost me 20,000 yen and it is the best J-pen I have ever tried. The power, feel, and control are unmatched even to other J-pens that are about 10,000 yen. The Xiom Ryu Seung Min Platnium is a top grade racket and therefore there is a high price tag with it. My Hero Special is actually better than my old KTS because it has equal power, it lighter, more feel, and definately more control. ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 05/13/2006 at 9:28pm
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Malvin, how is Darker Speed 90 (in 9 or 10 mm) compared to KTS ? ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 05/13/2006 at 10:15pm
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Sorry Malvin, I want to ask about your Kokutaku Laser Carbon (shake hand), how does it feel, soft, medium or
hard ? Normally you get a "report" from the blade to your hand when you hit the ball, but this is very suppressed when the carbon is mixed with arylate (like Timo Boll Spirit for example). What is the situation with this Laser Carbon ? ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/13/2006 at 10:38pm
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Hello aeoliah,
The Darker Speed 90 in 9mm and 10mm is generally about the same in quality, but Darker Speed 90 is cheaper and more often than not, lighter. Both blades are good, but if it was me, I would go for the Darker Speed 90, but I have seen some really good KTSs but those are the ones that came out long ago from Butterfly and costed only 13,000 yen. The current offerings of the KTS are not of the same quality as the older models of KTS and I only know collectors who have this older model of KTS. But Darker Speed 90 is medium soft in my opinion and with good control and power. About the Kokutaku Laser Carbon. The Laser Carbon has more control and is lighter than the Bty Timo Boll Spirit because there is also fiberglass mixed in with the carbon, which gives the racket a better balance of stability and control than the Bty TBS. The Laser Carbon weighs between 78 to 82 grams and the average TBS is between 85 to 91 grams. Since there is carbon in the Laser Carbon, their is that "pink" sound that comes when hitting the ball on the racket. Both the Laser Carbon and TBS are medium soft, but the Laser Carbon is softer than the TBS. I get more feel from the Laser Carbon than with the TBS. Overall I think the Laser Carbon is much better than TBS, even though TBS is a good racket. I hope this information is helpful. ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: hip66
Date Posted: 05/13/2006 at 10:53pm
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Malvin, Great information. I am currently using a 27 year old 3 ply Hinoki Yakaka Leopard (total of about 5 years of total use, I took many years off) which weighs in around 100 grams. Some tt forums have reviewed this blade as super fast/ uncontrollable etc., I don't know b/c it's all I've used in my life with the exception of some brief time with 5 ply/ 5 ply carbon blades that I felt did not have the feel of my Hinoki Leopard and felt slower and less response. I see that the Leopard is still offered as "Super Leopard" after visiting Yasaka's website and Iruiru's website, both have different ratings for it (Yasaka- power 10 speed, Iruiru- allround) Anyway, here's my questions for you: - How long will a Hinoki blade last before "played out", or do they ever wear out? - Should I consider my Leopard played out? - Based on some responses from you and aeoliah on other topic strings, I am considering buying a new Darker Tanpan or a new Leopard from iruiru. How do they compare- 3 ply vs 1 ply Hinoki blades? I am probably the only person left in the world using a Leopard, from what I have seen posted! Your thoughts/ comparisons/ contrasts on both would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again, Matt |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/13/2006 at 11:42pm
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Hello hip66,
I is strange that I often see many people say that a blade is uncontrollable and worthless because usually that player has not put in enough time into getting use to the blade, or they may have bad technique, or the blade does not fit their play style. I always say that with enough time, patience, and practice many blades can be good for you. So I think you assessment of your Yasaka Leopard is good and if you can control a fast blade, then that blade is for you. I do not think your Leopard is played out or most rackets will wear out unless you are a pro that practices 6 or 7 hours a day or your blade has warped or cracked, your blade is okay and in playable condition. My father played with his blade for 20 years and his blade is still in playable condition. About the 3 ply or 1 ply blade, many table tennis companies make only 1, 5, or 7 ply blades these days. I reccommend based on some of the blades Please tell me if you like all wood rackets or composite rackets and I and others on this forum will do our best to give you our opinions on blades we have hopefully used and their evaluations. I hope this information is helpful. ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 05/14/2006 at 12:22am
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Hi Malvin, I am correct if I say that Kokutaku Laser Carbon is comparable to blades with arylate carbon from Butterfly like TBS, Iolite, Aspyte etc and cannot be compared with carbon blade like Schlager Carbon, Sardius and Gergely ?
My understanding is arylate carbon has soft or medium feel, whilst carbon has hard feel. ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/14/2006 at 2:47am
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Hello aeoliah,
You are correct. Blades which are classified as pure carbon rackets are Schlager Carbon, Sardius, and Gergely, all of which I think are quality blades. The arylate in AC blades give the blade a different and often a medium soft feeling because of the shock absorbtion quality of arylate. I personally like softer blades, but I have seen many good players us hard carbon blades and soft rubber which is a nice combination. ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 05/14/2006 at 5:19am
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And where does the Kokutaku Laser Carbon belongs ? To the Arylate Carbon? ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/14/2006 at 8:30am
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Hello aeoliah,
If I had to categorize the Laser Carbon, it would be in the same class of Arylate Carbon rackets, due to shock absorbtion of arylate or in the Laser Carbon's case fiberglass. And all these racket have carbon in them, so I would say they belong in the same class of rackets. Malvin ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 05/14/2006 at 10:17am
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Hi Malvin, I wonder if you can post a picture of a hinoki blade having lines that is not straight, because I want to know what is your definition by "straight" which could differ to mine, because I think all the single ply Hinoki that I have seen have straight lines. ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/14/2006 at 10:28am
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Hello aeoliah,
I am sorry I actually do not have any pictures of Kiso Hinoki blades that are not straight. It is actually pretty easy to see because if you look at the face of your blade that the lines are swerving in either left or right then that is not straight. Truthfully most Butterlfy Kiso Hinoki blades except for the KTS do not have straight lines. And if you look on the top of your blade and some lines are pointing in different directions, then your lines are not straight. Most blades that see under 10,000 yen are usually not the best Kiso Hinoki because the lines are swerving and pointing in different directions or the growth lines are inconsistant and then are big and small gaps between the lines that indicate that the Kiso Hinoki wood did not grow evenly each year. Truthfully I do not believe Butterlfy has great Kiso Hinoki, but Kokutaku, Nittaku, and Darker have the best stock. If you compare these brands to any other Butterfly Kiso Hinoki racket that is not KTS, you will see what I mean. I hope this information is helpful. Malvin ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: hip66
Date Posted: 05/14/2006 at 12:50pm
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Malvin, As a starter for comparison of blades, what could I expect in the Darker Tanpan (1 ply) vs the Yasaka Leopard (3 ply)? Feel, weight, speed? Also, does anyone speed glue Hinoki 1 ply blades? Thanks |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/14/2006 at 1:22pm
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Hello hip66,
Most peole I know that play with 1 ply Hinoki blades speed glue like me. I am not too familiar with the Yasaka Leopard, so I am not sure if I can give an assessment of the blade because I have never seen one in person. I do play with a 1 ply Kiso Hinoki shakehand blade and it is 7mm. I speed glue and if the Darker Tanpan is anything like my blade then you are getting a very stable blade with excellent ball touch and feel. My blade has a good balance of power, ball control, and feel and it is also very light at 75 grams. But my blade was a custom order so I am not sure the weight of the Darker Tanpan because 1 ply Hinoki blades all differ in weight, feel, and power. I have been experimenting with Chinese rubber which is sometimes a little heavy, but can produce a lot of spin. I am not sure how thick the Darker Tanpan is so I think as long as the blade is not 10mm then you should probably expect a well balanced racket that is not an OFF+ blade, but more of a OFF- or OFF blade. I hope this information helps because I will never tell anyone something about a blade I have never tried. Malvin ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 05/14/2006 at 11:28pm
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Hi Malvin, sorry, one thing is still not clear to me. When you hit with your Laser Carbon, do you feel the "report" to your hand and is the sound more or less the same like you hit with your one ply Hinoki blade ?
I am not very fond of the feel on arylate carbon from Butterfly because the feel when I hit the ball is very very light, and also the sound is very subdued. ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 05/15/2006 at 2:52am
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Hello aeoliah,
The Laser Carbon has a the feel of an Arylate Carbon blade. The "pink" sound is there when the ball strikes the racket. The sound is not like hitting against an all wood, especially all Hinoki blade. If you are not fond of the arylate carbon feel then this is probably not a blade you are looking for. I think if you are more fond of the all wood racket, but don't want the AC feel, then it is probably better to stick with all wood blades. I hope this information is helpful. Malvin ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: stefanusj
Date Posted: 06/23/2006 at 4:21am
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Malvin,
I would like to ask a few question about Darker Tanpan or other single ply Hinoki shakehands blade: 1. did it cause your hand "vibrate" when hit the ball. Right now I'm using Schlager Carbon, and it doesn't vibrate my hand. I like it. 2. in other posts, someone mention about the Darker tanpan speed that has 95% speed of Schlager Carbon. Is it really true? This is my first post, maybe you could help me, because i'm really interest in "kiso hinoki" blade... |
Posted By: superloop
Date Posted: 06/23/2006 at 6:14am
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Hello stefanusj...I am the one that said that the Darker Tanpan was 95% as fast as the Schlager Carbon. Like you, I read all of the posts about Kiso Hinoki and I wanted to see what it was all about. I just got my Darker Tanpan about a week ago. I have been using the Schlager Carbon for about 2 years and I love the speed but it can be tough to control at times. I have been trying to find a blade with better control but compared to the Schlager Carbon, they all seemed really slow. I was very disappointed in the Timo Boll Spirit, for example. Like the other blades I tried, I did not expect the Tanpan to be even close to the Schlager Carbon in terms of speed. The Schlager Carbon might be the fastest of any blade, but the Tanpan comes really close. The Hinoki feel is alot different than the Schlager's though. When you block or push, it has a very soft feel. But when you loop or smash, it really supplies the power. To me, the Tanpan feels slow on touch shots but fast on power shots. This is the exact combination that I was looking for. I don't think that the Hinoki vibrates more but it does provide more feedback for the soft touch shots. superloop |
Posted By: ryu seungminfan
Date Posted: 06/23/2006 at 6:41am
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kokutaku is quite good. man i want to have a xiom blade
------------- blade:kokutaku super rubber:xiom omega 3 right hander nothing without labour |
Posted By: Shalashashka
Date Posted: 06/23/2006 at 8:58am
Is this considered to be good consistant grain, malvin? ------------- Extra Rorin. |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 06/23/2006 at 9:54am
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Hello Shalashashka,
From looking at the pics of your racket, it looks like a quality racket. I believe that Nittaku has a good reputation for making good 1 plu Kiso Hinoki blades and they have a good stock of Kiso Hinoki wood. The Rorin series rackets are suppose to be a little harder for more speed. I think the Nittaku Cho Takusen A is also a top grade Kiso Hinoki blade. But I think you have a good and quality blade there. Malvin ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: Shalashashka
Date Posted: 06/23/2006 at 5:20pm
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nice, thats what i wanted to hear thanks alot. ------------- Extra Rorin. |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 06/23/2006 at 9:06pm
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Good, then everybody is happy.
Malvin, have you ever tried single ply hinoki in C-pen ? How do you compare it with single ply hinoki J-pen ? I am considering to buy J-speed 90 (C-pen) because there is the possibility to get light blade around 70 - 75 grams, but the thickness is only 8,5 mm. Please comment. ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: stefanusj
Date Posted: 06/23/2006 at 10:00pm
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Thanks Superloop for your prompt answer.
Again, do you know any other brand that has good quality of "single ply kiso hinoki" blades? Because I have try to search for Darker blade in Indonesia, and didn't find one. I have already mailed iruiru, but until now they didn't reply me. This blade is very tempting.... have to try it myself... Stefanus |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 06/23/2006 at 10:16pm
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Hi, Stefanusj, to which address did you send your e-mail ?
Try this : [email protected] Usually Miss Suzuki replies very fast. Do you play shakehand or penhold ? If you play penhold you can get Cypress or Kim Taek Soo from Butterfly, but I find that Darker is more comfortable to hold. If you play shakehand maybe you can try Ranking Sports in Singapore, I heard they intended to stock some Darker blades months ago. ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 06/23/2006 at 10:37pm
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Sorry, I see that you were inquiring the Tanpan, which means that you play shake hand. So far that I know, only Darker makes single ply Hinoki. ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: Shalashashka
Date Posted: 06/23/2006 at 10:46pm
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Juic makes a single ply shakehand as well. ------------- Extra Rorin. |
Posted By: ttman
Date Posted: 06/23/2006 at 10:52pm
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Why are shakehand one ply hinokis not popular? Does the normal handle instead of cork change the feeling? ------------- |
Posted By: Shalashashka
Date Posted: 06/23/2006 at 11:12pm
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There may be several reasons....
Hinoki is expensive and rare. You need a thick cut in order to generate speed. It is much cheaper to make thinner and therefore lighter multiply blades with composites such as carbon inbetween to generate the speed. Hinoki is heavy for the most part and the thicker the blade, the heavier. This is usually not suited to the shakehand or cpen rpb style since 2 pieces of rubber are used. ------------- Extra Rorin. |
Posted By: superloop
Date Posted: 06/23/2006 at 11:46pm
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Hello Stefanusj...There are not many single-ply Hinoki shakehand blades available. I'm not sure why. Maybe like Shalashashka said, the thick ply with 2 rubbers might be too heavy for many people. The Tanpan that I have weighs 92g and my Schlager Carbon weighs 95g, so the weights are comparable. I found the following single-ply Hinoki shakehand blades...I chose the 9mm Darker Tanpan from iruiru.com. There was a 9.3mm Butterfly Cypress-Shake Pro that I saw on a Taiwan site. I wanted to get this one but I couldn't figure out how to order it. Like Shalashashka said, Juic makes a Hinoki One Ply that you can get from Paddle Palace. Armstrong has 2 models, Kasuterian and Asshuku 5Gou, that you can get from iruiru.com. I also found 2 Kokutaku models, the 2008 Gold and 3008 Benz but these were pretty expensive. I found out alot about Kokutaku from Malvin. He actually has a 7mm Kokutaku Hero Shakehand Limited blade that his coach had specially made. superloop |
Posted By: GenomicsKnight
Date Posted: 06/24/2006 at 2:33am
Hi Malvin, Thanks for providing so much valuable information on Kiso Hinoki wood. I learned a lot. I have a few questions to ask you too as well. I got a collection of 1-ply Hinoki Jpen blades. I noticed some uneven color on the face of of my TSP Dynam and Nittaku Rorin. Basically some part of the blade is more reddish than the rest. Do you think this nonuniformity in color will have any effect on the blade performance? Also I see that the spacing between the wood grain lines on Rorin is much denser compared to the Dynam. The lines on Rorin are about 0.5mm apart and just under 1mm on Dynam. My question here is that the blade should have a softer feel if the lines are packed denser or it's the other way around? Thanks in advance, ------------- CEO, Single Ply Hinoki Club TSP Dynam 10.5mm and other fine 1-ply Kiso Hinoki blades |
Posted By: stefanusj
Date Posted: 06/24/2006 at 6:35am
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To Aeoliah
Tx, i,ve already mailed Miss Suzuki. Hopefully she will reply it. And I will search in the web about ranking store. To superloop Tx for your infos buddys. I think I will choose darker blade. Because I want the speed/power from schlager and the control from an all round blades. I considered myself as an "very amateur" tennis table player and i'm already to old to learn new tricks (just like an old dog, lol). I like to chop, smash and block, with schlager, I think my chop is very hard to control. I have to try this kiso hinoki then... |
Posted By: stefanusj
Date Posted: 06/24/2006 at 6:49am
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I think we can say that this forum has already spread 2 kinds of virus:
1. Borko's virus 2. Hinoki's virus. hahahaha... Tx, stefanus |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 06/24/2006 at 7:04am
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Stefanusj, I may be older than you ..... ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: malvin
Date Posted: 06/24/2006 at 7:31am
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Hi GenomicsKnight,
I think the discoloration of a Kiso Hinoki racket is nothing to worry about. In the drying process, it sometimes happens and it does not affect the performance of your racket, but cosmetically it is not as cool looking. About the density of lines. The higher the density of lines together, the better then racket is. But you also want the growth lines to have equal distance between each other because it shows that there was steady and even growth each year. The top blades are nice densely pack lines that have an equal amount of space between each line to indicate that the Kiso Hinoki tree grew evenly each year. It is interesting because I have sampled Kiso Hinoki blades that have a high density of lines that are closely packed together and blades where the lines are not as close together. About how this effects the softness or hardness of the racket really varies from racket to racket. Each racket is uniquely different and some rackets that have densely packed lines are a little harder, while some are a little softer. Each blade is unique and the softness and hardness of the racket is also based on personal preferance. Malvin ------------- Racket: Kokutaku Hero Special Shake Hand Limited FH: Bryce 2.1 BH: Bryce Hard 2.1 Nittaku Tremendous FH: Xtend Max BH: Xtend Max |
Posted By: superloop
Date Posted: 06/24/2006 at 9:11am
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After choosing my Darker Tanpan single-ply Hinoki blade, my comments on this forum have caused the spread of the "Hinoki virus"...just kidding! I don't know why more shakehand players don't try single-ply Hinoki. It is a different feel but you should try it out to see if it is for you. superloop |
Posted By: hip66
Date Posted: 06/24/2006 at 10:09am
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Hinoki enthusiasts: I recently switched from my 8.3mm 3 ply Hinoki Yasaka Leopard (weighs 99 grams) to the one ply Hinoki 9mm Darker Tanpan (weighs 85 grams). I have found it is a little slower but provides better touch and great feel on all shots. It is a great blade- I bought it from iruiru.com based on feedback from Malvin and others. Good price and excellent quality- tight, consistent grain. My opinion: As to why the one ply hinoki shakehand blades are not as popular as others- purely marketing related. It's a lot easier for companies to advertise and hype space age materials and manufacturing processes to the majority of players (shakehand) and get a solid return vs rolling the dice and spending marketing $ on traditional type blades (one ply hinoki) to the majority of players. ------------- Yasaka Leopard Tornado 2.0 FH & BH Tibhar Rapid Clean 2 layers |