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TIBHAR EVOLUTION SERIES REVIEW

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Topic: TIBHAR EVOLUTION SERIES REVIEW
Posted By: yogi_bear
Subject: TIBHAR EVOLUTION SERIES REVIEW
Date Posted: 03/02/2013 at 9:13am
Received the Tibhar Evolution rubbers directly from Germany last monday. I have been waiting for this rubbers for so long since I first saw the Evolution listed in the ITTF LARC. Tibhar wouldn't confirm to me if the rubbers that were listed 2 years ago are the same with the rubbers that have been released in the market today. I think this is a company secret. 


MX-P, 69 grams uncut


EL-P, 67 grams uncut


FX-P, 63 grams uncut

The 3 rubbers are way different compared to the Q series. The topsheet have a deep red color while the Q series have a light red color. The red sponge is often mistaken as a japanese sponge but it is an ESN Sponge. The MX-P and the EL-P were glued to the Adidas Avenger 5 blade and the FX-P was glued to a friend's Yinhe T9 with a 5Q at the other side. The FX-P was glued on to the side with a carbon layer. 

Sponge

top FX-P, mid - EL-P, Bottom - MX-P

The MX-P has the hardest sponge among the 3, I would rate it as medium hard, the fx-p though rated as soft, i would rate it as medium soft since when i compared it to a sponge sample of the Aurus sound which is soft, the FX-P felt harder. The MX-P felt like its in between the hardnes of 1Q and 1Qxd. The El-P was medium. It felt closer to the 5Q in terms of hardness. The MX-P had the biggest pores and strangely the EL-P has the smallest pores with the El-P in between. 

Here are other pics of the sponges:

EL-P top and MX-P bottom

FX-P top and MX-P bottom

Speed

The MX-P eventhough I glued it to a 5 ply all wood blade felt like a rocket. It is the fastest among the 3 and it is faster than the T64. It felt hard in terms of feel when hitting the ball with it. The ball has a long medium to high trajectory when hitting the ball like 5-6 feet away from the table. I felt it was really strong and the strength of my shots  didn't change even if im away from the table. The FX-P and EL-P have only a slim difference in speed with the El-P edging out in speed by a few notches. 

Spin

The EL-P was the easiest to create spin among the 3. Eventhough the MX-P spins greater, it requires a bit more effort and a bit higher of a level to fully utilize its power in terms of speed and spin combo on attacks. The FX-P is closer to the El-P in spin but on harder shots, the EL-P is better. If you stay away from the table, the MX-P when hit hard is very spinny but i found it too fast for my level and I would say its definitely a pro's rubber. On pushes and serves, I would still give it to the EL-P but surprisingly, the hardness of the MX-P made it easier to push and serve in a spinny way like using a hard chinese rubber but isnt tacky. 

Control and inside the table game

The MX-P was a bit challenging to use since its very fast. you have to adjust to its speed and it needs taming a little bit. It was bouncy receiving short serves and also using drop shots as return of serves. It was great pushing though. The FX-P and EL-P were both great inside the table in terms of drop shots and flicks.

Blocking

On blocking very strong shots, the FX-P was very good because it was softer. The El-P is also very controllable on passive blocks. The MX-P produced very fast blocks and i think punchblocking would be cool with it if you can control it.


Conclusion:

Overall, I am biased towards the EL-P, its the most balanced rubber among the 3. Think its like a 5Q or an M2 but spinnier and more lively. The FX-P was also good on loops but is limited near the table and would bottom out if you stay away from the table and hit hard. The FX-P makes an excellent backhand rubber though. Its a good blocking rubber at the same time doing controlled loops. The MX-P is a beast, its very fast, powerful and spinny when you have the right skills. If you want to always have a counterlooping or counter attacking game the MX-P is the right rubber but I wouldn't recommend it to lower level players with a max sponge. The EL-P is heaven Big smile. Whether you place this in an all wood or a carbon blade, its very controllable and spinny. I would say all the 3 evolution rubbers are offensive rubbers. Not one is slow. They just differ in levels of being fast and spinny. 





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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach



Replies:
Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 03/02/2013 at 12:10pm
Thank you for the review.

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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge


Posted By: Wyo
Date Posted: 03/02/2013 at 12:12pm
Great review and pictures!


Posted By: MindTrip
Date Posted: 03/02/2013 at 12:58pm
Reads like mx-p is simply unplayable unless one is using a defensive blade. Guess I was hoping more for a hard high-spin rubber with all gears. The search continues.

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Apolonia ZLC
Donic Z3
Andro R42


Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 03/02/2013 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by MindTrip MindTrip wrote:

Reads like mx-p is simply unplayable unless one is using a defensive blade. Guess I was hoping more for a hard high-spin rubber with all gears. The search continues.

Not true at all IMHO. It is easier to play with than the Tenergy or Bluefire series. In fact, most of the criticism (if any) at the Evolution series is that it is more of a control rubber than the Bluefire series.

It is easier to play with than T05 or M1.




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Posted By: p1ngp0ng3r
Date Posted: 03/02/2013 at 4:39pm
Thanks for your review yogi_bear! Clap


Posted By: jatienza930
Date Posted: 03/02/2013 at 4:40pm
Nice review and pics! Thumbs Up I use the el-p on my bh as I tend to use more of spin instead of speed. It has a nice click sound to it and is very spinny. I still prefer the rasant for my fh Wink

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T05
T64

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Posted By: barnie
Date Posted: 03/02/2013 at 5:19pm
Thanks Yogi. From review MX-P looks a bit similar to Rakza 7?

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Yasaka Silver All Wood, ST
FH - Rhyzm max
BH - Tenergy 05 max


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 03/02/2013 at 8:00pm
Maybe it depends on what you've been playing with.  If you are coming from T05, MX-P feels hard, fast, but very controlled.  Very spinny if you use a full stroke, and great for blocking. One can transition to MX-P from T05 with very little change in technique, although on my blade MX-P is a touch faster.


Posted By: Jeff(ATTC)
Date Posted: 03/02/2013 at 10:00pm
I switched to this rubber after playing with Bluefire M1 for a while.  Very little adjustment needed.  Excellent spin if you can take advantage of MX-P great dwell time.  Top sheet is tackier than M1, so service is also better.

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Bty Jun Mizutani ZLC
FH: D80
BH: D05


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/02/2013 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by MindTrip MindTrip wrote:

Reads like mx-p is simply unplayable unless one is using a defensive blade. Guess I was hoping more for a hard high-spin rubber with all gears. The search continues.

MX-P is very much playable, i was just use to using 5Q which is fast but at the same time controllable. 


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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/02/2013 at 10:56pm
Originally posted by barnie barnie wrote:

Thanks Yogi. From review MX-P looks a bit similar to Rakza 7?

nope its different and the rakza is a geenration older



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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/02/2013 at 11:02pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Maybe it depends on what you've been playing with.  If you are coming from T05, MX-P feels hard, fast, but very controlled.  Very spinny if you use a full stroke, and great for blocking. One can transition to MX-P from T05 with very little change in technique, although on my blade MX-P is a touch faster.

true, i have used 5Q before and its what i like so i preferred El_P. MX-P is without no doubt a very very good rubber it was just to fast for my playstyle. however it is ideal for all out attacking players because its ability top produce explosive attacks comes with little effort 


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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: GSOM_GSOM11
Date Posted: 03/03/2013 at 1:37pm
What about the throw in comparison to T05, T64?


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 03/03/2013 at 3:58pm
MX-P is lower throw than either by a considerable margin.


Posted By: GSOM_GSOM11
Date Posted: 03/03/2013 at 4:09pm
interesting
EL-P must be a good bh rubber for a powerlooper


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 03/03/2013 at 4:16pm
I am using MX-P on both sides and it is also good on BH, especially for power loop, although some people will prefer a touch softer.  (I've never tried El-P on either side).


Posted By: GSOM_GSOM11
Date Posted: 03/03/2013 at 6:11pm
what blade do you use with MX-P?


Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 03/03/2013 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by GSOM_GSOM11 GSOM_GSOM11 wrote:

what blade do you use with MX-P?

I think this mostly boils down to personal preference. Baal liked it on a Viscaria (presumably). Hence, when I tried it I bought a new TB-ALC to put it on. I thought the blade was too soft for MX-P (I've been using harder blades) despite it being similar Baal's blade.

When I can play again, I plan to try it on a TB-ZLC (my Qabod  is a low throw blade & hence a bad match for MX-P).


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Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 03/03/2013 at 7:28pm
Great review yogi! Clap

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Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX
http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=page&id=42" rel="nofollow - Tenergy Alternatives | http://tabletennis-reviews.com" rel="nofollow - My TT Articles


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 03/03/2013 at 8:41pm
I truly suggest trying new rubbers on a blade you know well and like, since it is only by changing one thing at a time that you can really tell what you like.


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/03/2013 at 8:49pm
thanks alex, maybe ill try the mx-p in a softer wood like limba instead of a walnut

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 03/03/2013 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by GSOM_GSOM11 GSOM_GSOM11 wrote:

what blade do you use with MX-P?

I think this mostly boils down to personal preference. Baal liked it on a Viscaria (presumably). Hence, when I tried it I bought a new TB-ALC to put it on. I thought the blade was too soft for MX-P (I've been using harder blades) despite it being similar Baal's blade.

When I can play again, I plan to try it on a TB-ZLC (my Qabod  is a low throw blade & hence a bad match for MX-P).

Did you try MX-P on your Qabod before arriving at this conclusion?


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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: Carryboy
Date Posted: 03/03/2013 at 9:28pm
I ordered a sheet of MX-P Red Max, I hope I can play with it. I am so used to Bluefire M1 and really have no problem with it. I guess I am just a bit curious to compare MX-P to the M1. However I will admit I kind of prefer M1 on wood blades. reading all the comments here I have a good feeling about MX-P.

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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max
Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max


Posted By: GSOM_GSOM11
Date Posted: 03/04/2013 at 1:12am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I truly suggest trying new rubbers on a blade you know well and like, since it is only by changing one thing at a time that you can really tell what you like.

I asked about your blade not in order to run to shop and buy a similar one, but only to create a mental model of how MX-P or EL-P plays on a blade with this or that kind of vibration.

I myself use Barwell, and T64 is jumpy, bouncy and totally uncontrollable on it even in 1.9 thickness: no dwell, no flat game, no bh loopdrive. It`s not about my skills, it`s about the combo, rubber catapult and blade flex resonance. Mark V HPS, for example, is perfectly controllable.

I try to figure out, will the MX-P be also uncontrollable either it is less 'crazy' on such kind of blade.


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 03/04/2013 at 9:24am
Wow.  I suspect that you would find MX-P to be similarly hard to use on a blade like that.  Anyway, I am using it on a Viscaria, a medium offensive Btfly ALC type blade, which feels reasonably "dwelly", at least as composite blades go.  It is not a blade that is particularly extreme in any of its properties.  MX-P is pretty hard, so conventional wisdom would be that softer and more flexible might be better.    (Viscaria is just a touch softer than most TB-ALC blades).  Still, in spite of conventional wisdom, I would give it a try first on the blade you use most, in case that wisdom is wrong.  To be honest, I am now thoroughly set in my ways as far as a blade goes, so I pretty much only judge rubbers by how they work on that one blade.


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/05/2013 at 12:48am
the mx-p was great in an all wood limba 5 ply blade. its more controllable this time

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: AndresFrz
Date Posted: 03/05/2013 at 6:52pm
thanks for that great review, you could compare the bluefire m2, el-p thibar evolution?
in terms of speed control and effect?
would greatly appreciate your respueta is to place on my DONIC Baum esprit
and also has the same smell as the bluefire m2 in the package?


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blade: Adidas c100-fl

FH: Andro Rasant turbo 2,1
BH: Andro Rasant turbo 2,1


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/06/2013 at 9:00am
only tried the m2 for a short time but i can say the el-p is spinnier and has a grippier topsheet. also, if the Q series rubbers are durable rubbers i would expect the evolution series to be durable also

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: assiduous
Date Posted: 03/06/2013 at 9:59am
Both my ELP and MXP look like crap after only a few sessions. Play the same, but the topsheet has all kinds of colors and marks from who knows what. I don't understand. No other rubber gets defaced so quickly. 

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Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/06/2013 at 7:21pm
hmm that is strange assidious, for almost 2 weeks now the ones i have don't have any discolorations, the el-p and fx-p of my friends didn't have a problem either. can you please post pics?

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: AndresFrz
Date Posted: 03/06/2013 at 7:59pm
and has the same smell of BioBOOST Dandoy, which brings bluefire m2?
and the feeling of the hardest-p is equal to or m2?
and which of the three do you think could replace tenergy 05?
tanks yogi bear


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blade: Adidas c100-fl

FH: Andro Rasant turbo 2,1
BH: Andro Rasant turbo 2,1


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 03/06/2013 at 10:10pm
Strange assiduous.  After a month, my MX-P still looks quite good on both sides.


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/07/2013 at 6:11am
Originally posted by AndresFrz AndresFrz wrote:

and has the same smell of BioBOOST Dandoy, which brings bluefire m2?
and the feeling of the hardest-p is equal to or m2?
and which of the three do you think could replace tenergy 05?
tanks yogi bear


non could replace tenergy but closer to performance would be mx-p, el-p is closer to m2, never paid attention to the smell sorry heehheLOL


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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: GoldenDragoon
Date Posted: 03/07/2013 at 6:30am
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

Both my ELP and MXP look like crap after only a few sessions. Play the same, but the topsheet has all kinds of colors and marks from who knows what. I don't understand. No other rubber gets defaced so quickly. 


Black or Red?

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Blade: Nexy Spartacus FL 84g
FH: Evolution FX-P Max Blk
BH: Evolution EL-P 1.9 Red


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 03/07/2013 at 9:32am
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Originally posted by AndresFrz AndresFrz wrote:

and has the same smell of BioBOOST Dandoy, which brings bluefire m2?
and the feeling of the hardest-p is equal to or m2?
and which of the three do you think could replace tenergy 05?
tanks yogi bear


non could replace tenergy but closer to performance would be mx-p, el-p is closer to m2, never paid attention to the smell sorry heehheLOL


MX-P has similar smell as M-2 but much much less strong.  MX-P is a reasonable T05 replacement.  I have not seen or tried the other Evolution versions.  MX-P has a quite different feel than T05, but it has a very good feel of it's own -- much harder, feeling of control.  Throws lower than T05 and it is a little faster than T05.  Still, you can switch to MX-P with out having to change the way you play very much.  I used T05 for years and don't think I will be going back.


Posted By: PingPongHolic10
Date Posted: 03/07/2013 at 3:37pm
Baal/Jeff(ATTC),
Which: MX-P or M1 or M2 is harder, dwell, weight?
I'm playing with M1 on BH, and it's very good at blocking & opening against underspin, but hard to rally probably cause sponge is too hard for my style.  according to Donic, M1 is 47.5, but I believe it's harder than that...  


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Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 03/07/2013 at 3:49pm
MX-P is about 47-48 degrees and has low catapult until you swing hard - you probably won't like it if you don't like M1.
 
And MX-P is heavy!


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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 03/07/2013 at 3:51pm
If M1 is bad for you then MX-P is probably also too hard for your BH.  I use MX-P for mine and like it but never liked soft rubber very much.  Not sure about weight comparison except that MX-P is pretty heavy, definitely more than M2.  Never had M1 on my own blade, so not sure about weight there.  


Posted By: MindTrip
Date Posted: 03/10/2013 at 6:37pm
I'm really surprised that no one is mentioning the sound of MX-P. I was really surprised that such a hard sponged rubber could sound so good when looping. It's not Sinus Sound or Xiom Omega Elite loud, but it's comparable to Ten05FX. Kind of a half muted click. Perhaps I am just overly excited about the sound, having used DHS rubbers for the past year. The sound reminds me of my days with uncontrollable catapult-like rubber. 
Besides the sound, I am loving this rubber. My back spin serves are shorter and spin back to the net with more force. My loops and drives hit the table more often. Hitting warm ups is a little faster than I am used to, but still controllable. 


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Apolonia ZLC
Donic Z3
Andro R42


Posted By: GoldenDragoon
Date Posted: 03/10/2013 at 7:02pm
You should tryFX-P in max... U almost need earplugs.

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Blade: Nexy Spartacus FL 84g
FH: Evolution FX-P Max Blk
BH: Evolution EL-P 1.9 Red


Posted By: MindTrip
Date Posted: 03/10/2013 at 10:24pm
Originally posted by GoldenDragoon GoldenDragoon wrote:

You should tryFX-P in max... U almost need earplugs.

I could imagine. Nimbus sound and Sinus sound were the most vocal I've used. I'd get accused of gluing and often times had opponents checking the ball for cracks during tournaments. Genius+Opt Sound didn't do so much for me. That was 2-3 years ago, so I can only imagine how loud the newer technology has allowed the rubbers to become.


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Apolonia ZLC
Donic Z3
Andro R42


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 03/10/2013 at 10:51pm
Have you tried Calibra LT Sound? Easily the best and most consistent noise of any rubber.

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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: MindTrip
Date Posted: 03/10/2013 at 11:43pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Have you tried Calibra LT Sound? Easily the best and most consistent noise of any rubber.

I have not owned any Stiga rubber, but I have hit with a friend's sheet on a Rosewood blade. Come to think of it, I'm not so sure it was the sound version. The calibra I hit with felt great and was very controllable, but I don't recall the sound on contact.


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Apolonia ZLC
Donic Z3
Andro R42


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 03/10/2013 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by MindTrip MindTrip wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Have you tried Calibra LT Sound? Easily the best and most consistent noise of any rubber.

I have not owned any Stiga rubber, but I have hit with a friend's sheet on a Rosewood blade. Come to think of it, I'm not so sure it was the sound version. The calibra I hit with felt great and was very controllable, but I don't recall the sound on contact.

You sound like a Speed Glue effect connoisseur, so it is unlikely you were using the Sound version.  The real name for that rubber should be Calibra soft or something like that, but the sound was probably too good for name it anything else.


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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 03/11/2013 at 12:19pm
MX-P definitely makes a nice "thock" when you hit it, even in max.  It is interesting because it is not at all a soft rubber.  It is actually quite hard.  Much much louder than Tenergy.


Posted By: AndresFrz
Date Posted: 03/11/2013 at 9:06pm
who is the best on control Evolution MX-P or Bluefire m2 
both on MAX sponge??


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blade: Adidas c100-fl

FH: Andro Rasant turbo 2,1
BH: Andro Rasant turbo 2,1


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/11/2013 at 9:09pm
i say M2 since its slower than MX-P

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: AndresFrz
Date Posted: 03/11/2013 at 9:14pm
but it is easy to control?
and the speed difference between m2 and mx-p is much? or minor adjustments can be used?
thanks¡


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blade: Adidas c100-fl

FH: Andro Rasant turbo 2,1
BH: Andro Rasant turbo 2,1


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/11/2013 at 9:29pm
you need some adjustments but yes its controllable, the difference in speed is really big though

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: AndresFrz
Date Posted: 03/11/2013 at 9:35pm
Thanks yogi,
I was thinking and it is wiser to EL-P change at similar or m2, MX-P or what you think you've already tested the tires and the tenergy 64 is really fast but still controllable for me
and then beyond that you know some of the DONIC Baum esprit for you comment me please


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blade: Adidas c100-fl

FH: Andro Rasant turbo 2,1
BH: Andro Rasant turbo 2,1


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/11/2013 at 10:05pm
imo, i think the el-p is better though if you want brute force that would be mx-p, havent tried the donic baum esprit sorry

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: AndresFrz
Date Posted: 03/11/2013 at 10:09pm
Thanks yogi by that time you spend on this forum the truth is very useful me.
and they will put my MX-P when fence to the Olympic Games, I will keep the rest of the EL-P.
which you prefer EL-P or m2 and why?


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blade: Adidas c100-fl

FH: Andro Rasant turbo 2,1
BH: Andro Rasant turbo 2,1


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/12/2013 at 7:26am
simply because i hate donic's durability issues

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: AndresFrz
Date Posted: 03/12/2013 at 12:13pm
and which of the two is heavier EL-P or m2?
and with that ends my series of questions LOL hahaha
by yogi


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blade: Adidas c100-fl

FH: Andro Rasant turbo 2,1
BH: Andro Rasant turbo 2,1


Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 03/12/2013 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

simply because i hate donic's durability issues

The bluefire series is very durable FWIW


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Trade feedback:
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Posted By: assiduous
Date Posted: 03/12/2013 at 12:23pm
Yogi, i find MX-P with better control than EL-p in absolutely all situations, on all blades and both on FH and BH. I cannot even play with EL-P on bh. 
EL-P is soft but too jumpy. And I love jumpy but this is not the good jumpy. MX-P is tighter sponge and very predictable trajectory and overall behavior. ELP sponge is too wiggly and the transition from slow to fast ball is out of control. When u dont engage the sponge its slow, and then when in dips in the sponge all of a sudden jumps 10 ft out. I just can't do control loop with ELP. I go for all out loop so the extra jump doesnt bother me. MXP despite being tighter sponge has very linear releationship between increase in power and increase of speed. 80% power (controlled loops) are very easy with MXP .

For me..


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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out


Posted By: gatorling
Date Posted: 03/12/2013 at 3:42pm
Can anyone comment on how MX-P or EL-P compare with Palio Thors, Xiom Vega China and Rakza 7?
I recently switched from Palio Thors and Vega China on my FH to Rakza 7 and really have enjoyed the boost in top spin and looping consistency.
Vega China and Thors required a perfect stroke and I came to the conclusion that I just don't have the will or time to bring my stroke to the level that Thors/China demand.
With Rakza 7 I was able to generate around the same amount of spin, slightly slower smashes but gained a lot of consistency. Short game and serve did not seem to suffer much either.

If MX-P or EL-P offer me the same ease of top spin and loop as Rakza 7 along with the control with added spin, power or both... I think I might give them a try.

I use a Yinhe W6 but am seriously considering giving Xiom Aria a try (My friend has Aria with Rakza 7 and it feels great..better than the W6)


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Forehand: Hurricane 3 Provincial #20 sponge
Backhand: Rakza 7 Max
Blade:    Xiom Aria


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/12/2013 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by AndresFrz AndresFrz wrote:

and which of the two is heavier EL-P or m2?
and with that ends my series of questions LOL hahaha
by yogi

i have not weighed both on a scale but their weight difference is very slim


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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/12/2013 at 8:17pm
i think thors is harder than mx-p and heavier. comparing the 2 to rakza 7 i say both are simply better in terms of speed and spin. also, rakza 7 doesnt last that long for me. .

assidious, i think we have different preferences and maybe different strokes. when i placed the mx-p on a 5 ply limba blade it was very good and was better than in a stiff walnut 5 ply blade though i still prefer the el-p


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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: V-Griper
Date Posted: 03/12/2013 at 8:59pm
Yogi
I am strongly considering trying the evolution rubbers. I would like to use them for both FH and BH. So my question is what combo would you recommend, or could I use same rubber on both sides(MX-P/EL-P). I loop drive on both sides. More likely to flip or flick serves than push. Arms length from the table is my usual distancing. Check my sig for blade. One of my concerns is that my blade would be a little on the fast side for these rubbers(labeled off but is closer to off+),  which i'm ok with if the rubber can generate the spin. 

Anyway I appreciate your reviews and recommendations .


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DHS 301
Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/13/2013 at 7:22am
i say try EL-P fh and FX-P bh, i have tried your blade and i know its very fast

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/13/2013 at 7:24am
or reverse it if its still too fast

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: gatorling
Date Posted: 03/13/2013 at 10:57am
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

i think thors is harder than mx-p and heavier. comparing the 2 to rakza 7 i say both are simply better in terms of speed and spin. also, rakza 7 doesnt last that long for me. .

assidious, i think we have different preferences and maybe different strokes. when i placed the mx-p on a 5 ply limba blade it was very good and was better than in a stiff walnut 5 ply blade though i still prefer the el-p

Thanks Yogi.

Would you say EL-P offers better control and ease of looping/top-spin vs MX-P or are they about equal?
At this point I think I'll gain the most from improved shot percentage and gears. 

Thanks!



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Forehand: Hurricane 3 Provincial #20 sponge
Backhand: Rakza 7 Max
Blade:    Xiom Aria


Posted By: V-Griper
Date Posted: 03/13/2013 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

i say try EL-P fh and FX-P bh, i have tried your blade and i know its very fast

Thanks.


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DHS 301
Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/14/2013 at 12:51am
gatorling, on stronger shots the mx-p spins better but the el-p is easier to spin

-------------
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 03/16/2013 at 10:59pm
Durability update:  MX-P

I put two new MX-P sheets on a Viscaria and compared it to the 5-week old MX-P sheets on my other Viscaria.  They have had pretty heavy use during this five week period.  The blades are basically identical.  I put new sheets on my other blade because I had the impression that my original sheets were starting to lose some or their outstanding performance (and also because I wanted both of my blade to be essentially the same).  The older sheets still smell a bit of factory tuning but the tackiness of the top sheet is slightly reduced, although they still look pretty good, no crumbling at all, just a little loss of shininess and tack.  Nevertheless, I felt like my shots were just a touch lacking last few times I played.  I wondered if it was all in  my head.  Anyway, to find out if this was in any way equipment-related, I tried two new rubber sheets which I bought from the same vendor as the originals (Dandoy).  No doubt about it, the new MX-Ps were performing distinctly better.  (I wasn't, but that's another story related mainly to legs refusal to follow my brain's orders Unhappy).  I'm not sure if it was the improved tack of the top sheet and/or the fresh factory tuning, but I had a return of that sense of speed and control that is unique about this rubber in my experience.  Also, much louder.  To find out if it is the loss of factory tuning (what I suspect), in the next day or two, I am going to put a layer of Dandoy Bioboost on the older sheets and then reattach them.  I can't do it right now because I have managed to run out of glue. 


Posted By: GoldenDragoon
Date Posted: 03/16/2013 at 11:14pm
My exp is Dandoy makes rubbers play funny. If Dandoy does not work for you then I suggest a single coat of Seamoon.

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Blade: Nexy Spartacus FL 84g
FH: Evolution FX-P Max Blk
BH: Evolution EL-P 1.9 Red


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 03/16/2013 at 11:32pm
Good to know.


Posted By: mrdoodzki
Date Posted: 03/17/2013 at 12:23am
how would you compare fx p and acuda s3? are they equally soft?

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Blade -- Stiga Clipper

FH -- DHS Hurricane 3

BH -- Japtec Experience


HAPPINESS is....sometimes no words, just the sound of a ball


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/17/2013 at 6:07am
s3 is a true soft rubber, fx-p is like medium soft only

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/17/2013 at 6:07am
Baal, how do you like the MX-P overall in terms of spin? we all agree its very fast

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: igszoctan
Date Posted: 03/17/2013 at 11:27am
Originally posted by GoldenDragoon GoldenDragoon wrote:

My exp is Dandoy makes rubbers play funny. If Dandoy does not work for you then I suggest a single coat of Seamoon.

How does it react to baby or paraffin oil, pls?
I mean , I refresh my Bf-s with some oil drops now and again and they perform quite well again nearly as new ones do for a week or two. It is not a big investment, is it?


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igszoctan
Fh: Rasant PowerGrip (2.1)
Blades: Appelgren Allplay
Bh: Rasant Powersponge(1.9)
Feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66928&PID=807706󅌚
Strength and honour


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 03/17/2013 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Baal, how do you like the MX-P overall in terms of spin? we all agree its very fast


Very spinny indeed, every bit as spinny as Tenergy, but different.  You have to commit to the stroke to get high spin, and then the spin is so intense sometimes the ball just doesn't come off the table.  The ball tends to stay fairly low, and slow loops are not easy to execute (which is different from Tenergy, where that is an easier shot).  By commit I simply mean there has to be at least some rotation around your waist.  You can't use just your arm and expect high spin, although you can get away with that a bit with Tenergy. 

I have not played with anything like MX-P.  It is much harder and louder than T05 and does not have the mushy feel of Tenergy at all.  It is almost rigid, when the ball hits the blade you feel it all the way up your arm.  When new (first month), it is very loud.  Oddly enough, in spite of the quite different throw, and very different feel, you can adjust to it from Tenergy very easily (unlike any Chinese rubber, where for me the adjustment is truly impossible).  So, in my opinion it is very spinny, very fast, and very controllable.  I am still learning to deal with the extra tack a bit on returns of serve, but hardness helps there.

I like it a lot.  More than Bluefire, as much as Tenergy 05, more than Tenergy 80.

One other thing.  Kenetix rubber restorer is absolutely useless on Tenergy, but does a pretty good job restoring the tack and shine of MX-P.


Posted By: AndresFrz
Date Posted: 03/17/2013 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Durability update:  MX-P

I put two new MX-P sheets on a Viscaria and compared it to the 5-week old MX-P sheets on my other Viscaria.  They have had pretty heavy use during this five week period.  The blades are basically identical.  I put new sheets on my other blade because I had the impression that my original sheets were starting to lose some or their outstanding performance (and also because I wanted both of my blade to be essentially the same).  The older sheets still smell a bit of factory tuning but the tackiness of the top sheet is slightly reduced, although they still look pretty good, no crumbling at all, just a little loss of shininess and tack.  Nevertheless, I felt like my shots were just a touch lacking last few times I played.  I wondered if it was all in  my head.  Anyway, to find out if this was in any way equipment-related, I tried two new rubber sheets which I bought from the same vendor as the originals (Dandoy).  No doubt about it, the new MX-Ps were performing distinctly better.  (I wasn't, but that's another story related mainly to legs refusal to follow my brain's orders Unhappy).  I'm not sure if it was the improved tack of the top sheet and/or the fresh factory tuning, but I had a return of that sense of speed and control that is unique about this rubber in my experience.  Also, much louder.  To find out if it is the loss of factory tuning (what I suspect), in the next day or two, I am going to put a layer of Dandoy Bioboost on the older sheets and then reattach them.  I can't do it right now because I have managed to run out of glue. 

and since it has frequently proven TIBHAR evolution, and the DONIC bluefire m2 (hope it's that).
I can ask these questions
which is better in durability, which is better in speed and spin and Control Which would you choose?


-------------
blade: Adidas c100-fl

FH: Andro Rasant turbo 2,1
BH: Andro Rasant turbo 2,1


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 03/17/2013 at 9:45pm
I thought M2 was just ok, I like MX-P a lot more.  I am not sure which is more durable.  I gave away my M2 after about a week because I was not liking its performance.


Posted By: TSuBaSa
Date Posted: 03/18/2013 at 4:44pm
Played with fx-p and I liked it.

There is not much to say with pushing, serving and opening topspins. It's a soft euro rubber after all...  spinnier than calibra though!

but when you dig the ball in to the sponge than the show begins!

It's a lot spinnier than calibra family but it's easy to play like calibra. Ball feeling, dwell time it's all great! and spin is there! unlike calibra that rubber bites the ball. 

speed: slower than tenergy 05 fx but faster than aurus sound or calibra sound.
spin: spinnier than calibra, baracuda, genius, smilar with aurus (thicker topsheet than aurus, feel is totaly different)

dwell... wow dwell is great! there is a lot of rubber offers you dwell but there is not much spin (calibra sound desto f1 big slam vs) and there is a lot of spinny rubbers (like m1 tenergy vs) but there not much dwell. That makes fx-p special. I think its the closest rubber to the speed glued sriver fx in modern era.

Overall: It's soft, dwelly, not that super bouncy, med fast, med throw, spinny and easy to play with.


Posted By: Jerem
Date Posted: 03/19/2013 at 7:16am
Sound as an upgraded S3 but not exactly what a m3 is(just close). Maybe it's worth trying. I will post later after purchasing.


Posted By: MindTrip
Date Posted: 03/19/2013 at 7:50am
Originally posted by Jerem Jerem wrote:

Sound as an upgraded S3 but not exactly what a m3 is(just close). Maybe it's worth trying. I will post later after purchasing.

I have concluded the same about the softer versions of Evolution after reading this thread. MX-P is where its at. 


-------------
Apolonia ZLC
Donic Z3
Andro R42


Posted By: Hans Regenkurt
Date Posted: 03/19/2013 at 6:24pm
It is a bit harder than BF3 and by far harder than S3. Better than both.


Posted By: gatorling
Date Posted: 03/20/2013 at 12:51pm
Can anyone comment on the hardness of MX-P?
I currently use Rakza 7 max and am quite comfortable with this hardness.
Would EL-P or MX-P be a better choice?

I come from using Thors and Vega China, both were a bit too hard and too difficult to loop or top spin without a huge motion.


-------------
Forehand: Hurricane 3 Provincial #20 sponge
Backhand: Rakza 7 Max
Blade:    Xiom Aria


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 03/20/2013 at 2:00pm
MX-P is distinctly harder than Rakza 7, but I don't think you should lot that stop you from trying it.  


Posted By: simon_xuan
Date Posted: 07/14/2014 at 12:22am
Yogi_Bear, as far as the durability is concerned, do you know if MXP needs to be heavily retuned 6 months later to revitalize the sponge? What about the top sheet, will it lose its grippiness over time and how to restore it, with oil or just falco? Thx in advance.

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RPB Rocks!

BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra

Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 07/14/2014 at 1:11am
so far i have seen mx-p last as long as 4-6 months for high level players. a touch of tuner will revitalize the rubber maybe 3-4 months after using? 

-------------
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: simon_xuan
Date Posted: 07/14/2014 at 10:25am
Thanks for the input. I bought a used MXP to try. I felt the top sheet is not holding the balls during push and drop shots. Top spin rallies are good. I uses it on TB ALC. Now I am tuning with Falco, and use D40 or Olive oil for top sheet.

-------------
RPB Rocks!

BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra

Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695


Posted By: manraid
Date Posted: 01/21/2015 at 9:38pm
what type of tuning can be used for revitalize the sponge and regain topsheet gripeness?


-------------
MJ SZLC ST

FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black
BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red





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