Long Pips on both side, questions for LP gurus
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Topic: Long Pips on both side, questions for LP gurus
Posted By: Alqa
Subject: Long Pips on both side, questions for LP gurus
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 3:38pm
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I have sort of a weird set of equipment, Stiga classic offensive blade with Long Pips on both side, yes both side. One side with no sponge, and the other with 1mm sponge. I know the majority of ppl would find this setup sort of not right, but let's assume it's the only available option I have. A few questions, and your thoughts would be appreciated: 1- For serves, would you use the side with sponge, or the one without? and why? 1- what side you would have as a forehand ( sponge or no sponge )? 3- What side would possibly make more spin if any ? ( more spin reverse ) 4- I know it's hard to smash with LP, but if the ball is high enough, how would you smash an underpin and a topspin? in other word how are they differ in term of racket angel and the bat direction ( vertically, horizontally or 45 degree ... ) 5- How would you warm up with this setting? ( is it good idea to have inverted rubbers on another blade to warm up with, and is that legal ) ? Thank you, Alqa |
Replies:
Posted By: pingpongpaddy
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 4:10pm
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1. both. for variation 2. use the no sponge on your most defensive side. The sponge may be more use on your more aggressive wing. 3. spin from spin reversal comes from opponents shot.probably the no sponge side 4. start with near vertical racket face for both and go from there (learn as you go) 5.might be legal to warm up with a different racket 6. Please come to my club, I want to play you for money! I used to practice with someone with with this setup. He was a good player with his normal combo setup. With double LP everybody in the club just hit him off with ease once they new to not bother with spin good luck all the same  ------------- inactive dotec carbokev yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 4:12pm
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Bad idea all around, LP is not meant to be offensive. -------------  Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 4:13pm
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Maybe you should change LP on FH to MP or SP Bare in mind that SP and MP can be used for both defensive and offensive, but require higher skills compared to LP and inverted |
Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 4:19pm
A clubmate uses 1.8 med pips (FH) and OX LP (BH), gives everybody fits.  ------------- Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
ZApenholder wrote:Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 4:39pm
Does your clubmate twiddle too??  |
Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 4:41pm
Yes, and he's a PH!! ------------- Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 4:42pm
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It's such an unusual setup it would be hard to actually KNOW, and the best thing you could do is just see what works best for what you are trying to accomplish in TT. |
Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 4:44pm
You have to love to chop, on both sides!! ------------- Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 9:08pm
Agree with you on "LP is not meant to be offensive", because the attacks are very difficult to land on the table. If it should land on the table, then the opponent will have a harder time to return the ball relative to an attack from inverted. (This was mentioned earlier in another thread. That's my own experience which may not be correct.)
Question:
If you have attacked with LP many times before and you also have attacked with inverted many times before, which one gives your opponents more trouble?
(Just try to find out if my view on this subject is correct or not. I have this "view" for quite some time that LP attacks give my opponents a harder time. Does anyone else have the same experience?) ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 9:30pm
A weirdo setup like this is entirely dependent on your level. Pretty much anything can work before you get to a point where the topspin players are so consistent & strong that the advantages of "weirdness" disappears. OTOH there are LP virtuosos like: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=19025" rel="nofollow - http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=19025 , who wins large amateur tournaments in china despite very advanced age using xtreme trickery. ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: DDreamer
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 9:36pm
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The main problem is that all of your serves and pushes would have no spin and so you would be extremely vulnerable. You would be better to have SP on one side. ------------- I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 10:06pm
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[/QUOTE] AgentHEX A weirdo setup like this is entirely dependent on your level. Pretty much anything can work before you get to a point where the topspin players are so consistent & strong that the advantages of "weirdness" disappears. OTOH there are LP virtuosos like: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=19025" rel="nofollow - http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=19025 , who wins large amateur tournaments in china despite very advanced age using xtreme trickery. [/QUOTE] ============================================== The following very old post was posted by: ZingyDNA
Of course they're no where close to pro level. Anyway, skip wanted me to post the vid of Huang Jian Jiang (the older guy in his vid) vs. Li Zhi Ming, so here's the link:
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjQ0ODg4NTA0.html" rel="nofollow - http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjQ0ODg4NTA0.html Huang Jian Jiang (LP teacher & master in China) has problems playing another LP player, Li Zhi-Ming (a USA LP player, usatt rating is 2266 as of 7-28-2013). ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 10:14pm
As previous video indicates that Li Zhi-Ming plays only one side (penhold) that has LP, and has a USATT rating of 2266 (7-28-2013). His highest rating was 2352 as of 12/6/1997.
(I don't know how old is Li Zhi-Mig, but he can not be very young. Not sure anyone knows his age.) ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 10:26pm
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Sure, it's not pro, but quite high level amateur. I can assure you he's nowhere near 2200, despite being old (60's). In the vid, it's pretty obvious he was overly aggressive (and messing around w/ "no look" 360 shots) against a good LP def player. A lot of unforced errors to put on a show. Just look at end of 3rd set, getting points on command when playing safe. ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: Roger Stillabower
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 10:35pm
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There is a guy at the club that I play at that uses LP on his forhand and has the Seemiller grip,he attacks with this crap and instead of a top spin it acts like a back spin. I find it very difficult to counter, I have to open the blade to return it. Any one else experience this junk play ? ------------- Shifter |
Posted By: DDreamer
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 10:48pm
If you are good enough you can play at a reasonable level with anything however, this doesn't change the fact that LP on both sides leaves you vulnerable on serves and pushing. If you have a good flick you can overcome the pushing issue by flicking all short balls (often easier with penhold). Serving will still be a problem though - everything you serve will be no spin and subject to attack. Also you will be unable to get an advantage from serve as many players do. ------------- I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 10:58pm
LPs needs your spin to work. If you can return with no spin ball in the right place, you can start to setup for a better shot. ------------- Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
Posted By: tt4me
Date Posted: 08/23/2013 at 11:26pm
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Deng Yaping attacked with 755 and 1mm sponge. It isn't impossible although I found it difficult. I have a red and black 755 1mm that I have put on both sides of my Samonsov Alpha for kicks. It didn't work too well for me but I could barely manage 755 1mm on my BH. The two 755 1mm would go better on my Defplay. The point is that the blade makes a big difference. That is something I didn't know back when I put the 755 on the Samsonov Alpha. I think playing with LP on both sides is wrong for the same reason I like to play with LP on one side instead of playing with inverted on both sides. I have options with LP 0X on my BH and T25 on my FH. I have extreme options. Today I played with my Firewall Plus with T25 on the FH and Crop Circles 0X on the BH. I like the contrast between the two sides and I twiddle. No weak BH here. I loop and attack balls with my T25 on the BH when I get a chance. This is necessary, at lower levels I find that the opponents will simply try to bounce the ball back without spin. These no spin balls are hard to handle with LP 0X. However, they are easy to attack with T25. Also, LP 0X doesn't absorb much energy when the opponent is hitting a hard shot. I have found that it is easier to twiddle and block fast loops with the T25 than to block with the LP. The ball goes rocketing back and often the attacker is caught off guard admiring his last shot as the ball goes by. That happened at least twice today. Playing with LP on both sides limits your options but it could work. I don't see why you can't attack high balls and chop or block chop low balls but it takes time to learn how to do this consistently. I know when I first started playing with LPs I lost as many or more from being inexperience with LP as I won from my opponents inexperience playing against LP. In short. Put a very spinny and aggressive inverted rubber on your FH and learn to twiddle. Think in terms of contrasting rubbers with complementary capabilities. THe blade makes a difference. I like the Firewall Plus with a straight handle. I always buy straight handled blades now because I think it is easier to twiddle with straight handled blades. There is a video of a LP player that is hitting top spins I don't call this looping but one can hit the ball with some amount of top spin when playing with LPs with some grip like 755. Another option is that one can punch block a lot like the Russian cross court anti player. ------------- Samsonov Alpha+H3 Neo+802 1.5mm, the Ball Whacker is revived!<br />Samsonov Alpha+H3 Neo+802-40 1.8mm my back up<br />BCX5+H3+802-1 1.8mm New but promising.<br /> |
Posted By: Alqa
Date Posted: 08/24/2013 at 3:28pm
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It's amazing how TT have such enthusiastic fans, and yes as has been said before it's sort of a strange combination and today at my club everyone was giving me the "That's wrong" thing but hey I'm not gonna compete with Ma Long one day! For me it's a sport and not aiming to be athlete anyways. And I agree it might be better to have inverted on FH or at least a SP on FB, I might switch to this setup later. To my surprise I could actually sort of loop ( Probably should be called semi-loop or even counter hit ) and I could actually sort of smash the ball, I played a game with my coach who is a Chinese provincial top 10, and he had very hard time winning! even I only play TT for only less than 6 months! Yesterday I told him about my setup and he was saying I should not not play using it, today he said don't ever change this setup lol .. In fact when we were playing other ppl gather around the table to watch. I've a tournament in 3 days, I'm gonna play with this setup, keep in mind that I currently live in Guangzhou, China so all my opponents would be Chinese, but I"M POSITIVE I WILL WIN at least a game ( I never won any game at that club as the highest level of players in the city always take a part at this weekly tournament ) My only problem now is how to warm up before the matches, I tried today at my club and I could counter hit forehand and lefthand but my opponent will usually have the ball into the net after the 2nd or 3rh ball. I might need to warm uo with other racket or do some blocking/chopping etc. I will add some feedback here after the tournament here. |
Posted By: Alqa
Date Posted: 08/24/2013 at 3:34pm
| .. |
Posted By: DDreamer
Date Posted: 08/25/2013 at 7:10am
That's great that you are enjoying playing with your set-up but I find it very hard to believe that your coach was trying. Next time you play your coach ask him to try 100% and see how you go. A top 10 player in Guangzhou would be scary good and it's hard to imagine him being troubled by someone with LP both sides who has been playing for only 6 months - Im sorry. ------------- I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 08/25/2013 at 11:48am
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Alqa, Good luck. In the days of frictionless pips, your setup was more common, but without amazing touch with the pips, it's hard to consistently block loops close to the table with just long pips or to avoid a no-spin rally with your opponent dictating when he wants to attack. "Looping" heavy backspin is possible with any surface, but the ball you send across rarely has the properties of a true loop and is mostly dead. As for the warm up, it is your opponent's responsibility to arrive at the table ready to play and to practice the shots he is likely to use in the game - the two minute warm up is insufficient for any serious player. I know someone who warms up his backhand side using his long pips and says that he wants to practice the shots he will use in the game - I don't see a problem with that. One reason why some players don't warm up with their pips is that they don't want their opponent to see and get used to it. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 08/25/2013 at 11:54am
+1... He's a good actor. ------------- Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 08/25/2013 at 8:22pm
I read this a couple of times and no matter how I read it, is seems that you don't appear to be making this statement as some sort of strange joke. If it's not a joke it's pretty likely that you will not make very rapid progress in this sport. But it could be I am just missing your subtle humor. |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 08/26/2013 at 2:27am
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Pretty interesting how people who whine about insults act when the shoe's on the other foot. The guy's obvious a beginner and doesn't understand the sport well, so, why? ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: Alqa
Date Posted: 08/26/2013 at 4:49pm
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Haha, guys come down I smell the sarcasm before I even turn on the computer lol I probably should have elaborated, when I said he had hard time winning I was comparing his effort to win before I switched to LP to his effort after changing my setup. He's 24 years old, and started playing when he was 6 years old!! so DEFIANTLY he is gonna win!!! I've been training with him for about 4 months, and at the end of each session we will play a match and we would bet on a sport drink or juice from the club cafe if he won and kept me below 5!! I literally had played with him over 30 matches and got him over 30 sport drink or water etc! But it was not the case 2 days ago, he got me a sport drink, he won all 3 games but did not keep below 5! that was a big deal for me hahaha .. in fact I'm just back from the club, and he could not keep me below 5 and I got another drink, other 2 coaches came to watch at the club and tried my bat as well.. :D Half of my points were from him looping into the net, and the other half mostly hitting if his return is a bit high. For me, I like to play sport competitive and I still do! that is the main reason I switched to TT when I move to China as it's the best sport prob here. I was not bragging about my little success story I was delivering the message that some change in your setup might change your play level. I work 10 hours a day and flying at least twice a month, so I'm not trying to win Zhang Jike, I'm into the sport for the fitness/fun part of it. After all I'm playing in China, the whole world could not win them in TT, will I :D But if you guys happen to be in Guangzhou, let me know even that I'm only 6 moths in the sport, if you win I'm getting you a drink and an hour of practicing with my coach ... you got my Alqa's word.. :D I'm playing a tournament tomorrow , that should show me how TERRIBLE my setup is .. :) |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 08/26/2013 at 5:38pm
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Alqa has a valid point.
===============
I am an "on and off" LP player. Thus I am not a proficient LP user.
Using LP to play against players rated 200-300 points above me, I could get more points than using inverted.
Factors that why I got more points:
(1) The accuracy of my opponents' shots (attacks) took a nose-dive. (Went into the net, or flew off the table.)
(2) When I use LP to attack (% to land on the table is very low), if it lands, my opponents' successful return rates took a nose-dive - even when my LP attack is not a strong attack.
LP rubber is a strange animal.
------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: JacekGM
Date Posted: 08/26/2013 at 5:58pm
Interesting... ------------- (1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH. |
Posted By: Roger Stillabower
Date Posted: 08/26/2013 at 6:12pm
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My personal 0pinion of LP is it's a gimmick (junk) rubber, my opinion of short pips with sponge is for people who want to hit or slap the ball, and have no strokes, at least back in the old days of Hard Bat you had to learn strokes. Just my personal opinion and I'm entitle to have. ------------- Shifter |
Posted By: Alqa
Date Posted: 08/26/2013 at 6:51pm
I'm no expert by any mean in LP, nor even TT! BUT I think that's true, and was trying to say the same. For instance, when I played with my coach, it was not my TT skills that got me 6/7 points, it was him misreading the spin on the ball that lead to a ball into the net, out ,or a sort of poor return that allowed me to hit it with LP. And Yes, when I attack or even push the ball with vertical angle he will have harder time should it was by inverted rubber. Counterhit is easy when both are inverted players, but once there is a LP involved, the rhyme changes. The way I see it is that he plays everyday mostly with inverted, with specific racket angel when hitting/ smashing etc; The LP dynamic spin reversal makes things harder ( NOT HARD ) for him. So, that fact that there are no many LP players, lead to less practice with LP and therefore lower level should the opponent were another inverted player. With that being said, if I was playing TT professionally, I would probably choose to play with inverted. For now, I enjoy LP, and have no plans to change any time soon. It's funny my current LP setup cost a fraction of my inverted setup cost :D |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 08/26/2013 at 7:43pm
It's somewhat true at lower levels because low level player can't read spin. It's also the easiest way physically to make an opponent work for the point, which lower level players don't. ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 08/26/2013 at 7:58pm
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Well, I've always said that weird is sometimes good and it is a mistake to coach people out of some unorthodoxy if the strange stuff works. Eric Boggan, is the classc case in point. Odds are, this will limit your progress and the ceiling is pretty low, probably lower than it needs to be. The reason LP is usually paired with inverted is that it gives the opponent at least one side where they really have to fear the offense (this is tactically true at 1200 and in the world's top ten) and also it gives the largest possible contrast to the LP side. That is just more likely to get free points from your opponent due to timing and spin errors. But if you can generate some real offense with one side at least -- and Deng Yaping certainly did with LP -- well maybe this is one of those strange things people will look at and say, 'I don't know how he does it but it works'. |
Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 08/26/2013 at 10:05pm
Another exception, years ago, I played a chopper who had LP on both sides. He was playing 1900-2000 USATT rating. He would chop until you pushed then he would kill with sidespin and it was not returnable. I would just slow loop, to limit his attack, until I got a loose ball to hit. He almost never blocked. He said he played that style for exercise. He was in his early 50's and would visit from England 2-3 times a year. ------------- Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
Posted By: CraneStyle
Date Posted: 08/27/2013 at 6:35am
| Removed... |
Posted By: DDreamer
Date Posted: 08/27/2013 at 10:21am
Sorry, I don't mean to be rude but if your coach is top 10 player in Guangzhou there is no way you would get 6/7 points against him if he was trying. Also, he wouldn't misread the spin as LP is very predictable. I don't misread the spin from LP and I'm guessing I would struggle to get 5 points against a top 10 player in Guangzhou. It is very common that top players are slack when playing weaker players in practice. Despite this, it is good that you are enjoying playing with your set-up. ------------- I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: pingpongpaddy
Date Posted: 08/27/2013 at 11:32am
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this thread reminds me of Zach Wei maybe the mods can check the ip addresses ------------- inactive dotec carbokev yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 08/27/2013 at 1:00pm
PPP... Heck Yeah!!! Unless you are a former national team member... please do visit my club with a fat wallet ready for dinner bets and drink bets. You lose a lunch bet vs me and Ur wallet will be just a might lighter, but you will have awesome pics on Facebook to remember it all. Think of it as a fee for the good looking pics and memories. I LOVE and crave playing vs OX LP players. Unless they are two levels better than me, I will not be threatened. There are TONS of OX LP players here in Korea who are powerhouse OX LP punchblockers / FH power hitters. I play them every day and play with an OX scout bat every now and then to remember their techniques. Please do visit my club and give us some free chicken and beer for the fun memories. ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 08/27/2013 at 1:19pm
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There is a 70 yr old preacher who shows up at Uijeungbu Sky TTC for the monthly tourney who gives many an inverted attacking wannabe players fits to no end. He uses sponge LP on one side on OX LP on the other with a C-Pen grip! To further exasperate the attacking player's dilemma, this guy gets rated as div 5 and gets a 3 poiny handicap vs the Div 3 crowd and a 2 point handicap vs the Div 4 crowd, which is the average hotshot median Korean club attacking player average. He just gets the ball back, whether high or low, he doesn't care. he just focuses on getting it back and the opponent is ALWAYS too eager to try to BLAST the ball back to China... and usually pays for that with a miss. Reading spin and anticipating the ball are not easily taught skills that normally get developed by experience. This preacher preys off of players' inexperience and always advances to the round of 4 and wins *** tourney balls, always. (Thee tourneys cost under $10 to get into, so why the heck not???) When I play him, he puts on a happy face, but knows he is getting a one-way ticket to sit down and watch he rest of the tourney if I meet him in the knockout stages. Even with a 4 point handicap, I can serve and make him net it, or bump it long for a power finish, even if he brings it back, it is high and ripe for another smash. If he serves, I just bump it back or heavy loop it depending on whether I want to finish the point now or later. This guy doesn't make a lot of errors, unless you speed drive or heavy loop it. He will embarrass the average OFF player who does not understand spin and is too arrogant to stop blindly power-attacking everything long. Unless the player is several levels higher for obvious reasons of generally being way better, no one should have such problems vs such a setup. it is an invitation to an easy win and free lunch or after match chicken meals for the entire club if you decide to wager. By the Way, such wagers in a Korean club are very common and result in a match that is more fiercely contested than an actual city or regional tourney! ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 08/27/2013 at 2:45pm
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I have seen some pretty deadly bit innocuous looking LP penholders in China too. I was utterly annihilated by one at a tournament there, OX LP one side, some sort of very thin sponge MP on the other that he could hit with -- and serve well too. This guy was not old, maybe 35. The key was that he could attack when you messed up. |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 08/27/2013 at 3:56pm
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High level LP players are whole different sort than amateur club level blockers. LP is generally more difficult to master than inverted so you know those guys have put in the hours. ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: pingpongpaddy
Date Posted: 08/27/2013 at 5:05pm
I was offering to play against double LP not use it, but if Alqua is not the noobie he seemed to be, all bets are off your club in Korea sounds like fun------------- inactive dotec carbokev yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
Posted By: Alqa
Date Posted: 08/27/2013 at 7:11pm
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I don't recall mentioning he was a top 10 Guangzhou player, but according to him he was top 10 in his hometown province, some of those northern provinces that I don't remember. Nonetheless, he's def HIGHLY SKILLED, otherwise he would not be hired by the club owner who as I heard was in the national team, and playing with him for an hour will cost 500RMB ( $85 ) whereas the average cost for an hour of practice with any caoch would be $15 to $20 an hour. Couple weeks ago a guy from the French national time as I was told was training with him. But thanks I really enjoy playing this setup regardless. |
Posted By: Alqa
Date Posted: 08/27/2013 at 7:14pm
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Dear Witty Detective, I use something called VPN software ( Enable you to use an IP address from any country I want ) that I could browse Youtube, FB etc as they blocked in China. :) |
Posted By: Alqa
Date Posted: 08/27/2013 at 7:37pm
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There is a weekly tournament that always attract top players ( Local mid-level players will avoid playing in this tournament as it's considered to be highest weekly tournament in the city, which is every Tuesday in Tianhe Sport Center in case you wanna give it a try, defiantly worth the try for TT fans, especially those who look to improve their level ). I played their more than 20 times and never won a SINGLE MATCH, that was changed yesterday, I won a match, and lost 2-1 for other 2. I was satisfied with my performance lol .. quick take outs of last night: - I will changed my forehand setup to inverted or SP. - The game was a bit slow, I did not like this part as I'm into more actions for fitness reasons/ football winger here. - It's sort of game mind, some players looped to the net and started to lose their control and started using more power to hit the ball and sometime will end up sometime out of the table. - Hardest opponent was using one push and one loop, he kept me moving around. - I played with another lP penholder player, game was TOO SLOW and I started to hit a lot, I lost 2-1 - If Backhand HIT landed on Table, a VERY few times were returnable.. - opponents will check my setup and give me that look, " Really" :D - I twiddle and a few times before my opponents serve :D, and the expressions in their faces were priceless - I have a lot to improve regarding LP. After all, winning in that a club even for a single match was major milestone in my TT journey lol ... I had an awesome time and that what matters the most. :) |
Posted By: DDreamer
Date Posted: 08/27/2013 at 8:38pm
I'm sorry but it really doesn't matter which province he is from. If he is top 10 in any Chinese province and as good as you say you would not be able to get 6/7 points if he was trying. Also he would not misread the spin of the LP.
------------- I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: DDreamer
Date Posted: 08/27/2013 at 8:41pm
I thought you are using LP both sides - how would twiddling affect matters? I don't understand. Also, I presume you are using one black side and one red side anyway (?). ------------- I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 08/27/2013 at 9:19pm
In generally I don't think anyone of that skill level would ever be "trying" against a relative beginner. I'm more surprise Alqa can get that many higher level games, but I guess it's not high price to pay if the cold drinks are good. ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: Alqa
Date Posted: 08/29/2013 at 1:29pm
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Well, it's possible he was putting on some act, I don't know for sure! I played a match with him today and got 5/6 points, that's something I never was able to achieve with my old setup .. Also my other matches with my club mates got much much better .. What matters more for me is that my game is getting better/ more fun .. Twiddling the racket was a part of psychological game, on top of that hitting with the sponge side was much better.. |
Posted By: DDreamer
Date Posted: 08/29/2013 at 5:39pm
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He doesn't have to be putting on an act, rather he is just not trying 100%. I rarely try more than 60/70% against much weaker players. I still don't understand the psychological effect of your twiddling. Whether you hit with LP OX or LP with sponge will make virtually no difference to your opponent. Unless your opponents are beginners they would know this. ------------- I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 08/29/2013 at 6:25pm
Fun is the main thing. You should just experiment and see what works with this style you are developing. But if you are going to make progress, at least one side of your setup is going to have to allow you some measure of offense. |
Posted By: Alqa
Date Posted: 08/29/2013 at 7:49pm
If you familiar with LP, you will see that hitting is easier with sponge. Also, chopping with OX is harder/less accurate when i'm away from the table that I twiddle when I'm a bit far from the table. When close to the table, OX works better for me when blocking, that why I use it on my backhand when I'm near the table. On top of that, ox block seems to be more difficult to return, so I always try to have it on the hand where my opponent is likely serve to .. I also have the habit of twiddle when when waiting for the opponent to serve or bring the ball etc even when I play with Tenergy on both side before.. sort of keeping the wrist active lol And good for you man trying 60% against less experienced players .. |
Posted By: Alqa
Date Posted: 08/29/2013 at 7:52pm
| Defiantly, thanks .. I might be using SP on forehand now due my wrist injury, my DR suggested that I use the lightest set of equipment possible to reduce the wight on the wrist .. I might have a light inverted rubber .. will see .. |
Posted By: DDreamer
Date Posted: 08/29/2013 at 8:44pm
I understand the difference of OX vs sponge LP and how twiddling could make a difference to you. However I don't understand how your twiddling could have any psychological impact on your opponent and why your twiddling "a few times before my opponents serve :D, and the expressions in their faces were priceless" - twiddling with LP on both sides should not bother an opponent at all. I suggested that your coach may not be trying 100% so that you wouldn't get an incorrect reading of the effectiveness of your set-up. Most beginners try 100% in practice games and they assume everyone else is trying 100% as well but this is frequently not the case. A stronger player will often not go flat out against a much weaker player. This is not because of arrogance but rather so that the weaker player will have a decent hit. If I were to try 100% against a beginner there would be no rallies - very few serves would come back and usually the first return I got I would loop a winner. Your coach would be a much much better player than myself and there would be no way someone with your experience using LP on both sides could get 5 or more points against him. This is not being mean, it's just being realistic. Anyway, I think your suggestion to use SP or inverted on one side is a good one. In the long term I think it will give you more fun when you play. ------------- I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: Alqa
Date Posted: 09/01/2013 at 9:24am
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Retuning a fast top spin serve with sponge would return the ball out of the table more than an OX would, Amount of spin reversals are different between FH and BH, and therefore opponent would not be used for the same spin reversal rhythm and so on. My coach himself told me twiddle even with this setup is confusing because they are thought to notice where the "funny" rubber is before serving etc.. even in the tournament, they would double check the bat in the middle of the game.. and they would look at my bat every time before serving, not always though ... For me, it's more like a habit even when I use inverted on both side, but reasoning came up along the way while using LP. And yep I think I would be using Ultra Light Stiga rubber on forehand to keep my bat light due my wrist injury .. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/01/2013 at 9:37am
If you are having that problem with LP, whether or not you have sponge, you need to spend time working on your touch. |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 09/01/2013 at 10:34am
I wasn't challenging Paddy to come here to Korea and get some... I was applauding his comment about a combo LP/LP player coming to his club for easy money (for paddy) Now if you wanna see me in action in Korea, you had better come fast as I leave for good in a couple weeks. Paddy, it just isn't my club here in Korea. Just about EVERY club in Korea with 20 or so Over 40 or Over 50 lady players... there WILL be at least TEN, yes TEN of them, who sport a setup similar to... Blade: Schlager Carbon, Gergely, or any BTY OFF++ blade FH: Yasaka Extend HS or any control inverted rubber in 2.0 or max sponge BH: Grass D_Techs in OX You will see this setup a LOT in Korea and if anyone is not afraid to play vs it and learn it, one can do very well vs this style. The O40 ladies crowd does NOT loop. They will aggressively punchblock underspins for winners or pressure, they will push with OX LP to get opponent to mis-read the ball and pop it up, then if the ball is even ONE CM above net height, they will FH blast the ball through their opponent leaving a vapor trail. it is such a trip to see these innocent, frail looking older ladies flip the switch and go gorilla on athletic! haha. always a joy as when they win a point they are all happy and celebrating! I am a nightmare for them. Even with a handicap, they do not win vs me. Some of them take lessons specifically geared towards defeating me at me club, some train an extra 10 hours a week hardcore mutiball with their Div 1 husbands, but it doesn't matter, their husbands never hit like me. I use spin, no-spin, heavy topspin, heavy cut underspin, fake spins of all types, and can blast away at the ball as I know what is on it and where it is going. (Well most of the time, at least enough to comfortably win while giving away handicap points) When I leave Korea I am going to miss this kind of TT action and fun something fierce... ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 09/01/2013 at 10:38am
Quote of the week candidate! OX LP or Sponge LP, or SP or regular inverted, it doesn't matter... it is all about seeing the ball, reading the spin, break, placement, speed, height... getting into position, knowing what you want to do, (if it is a cut block short or barely 1/2 long then...) taking the ball early with a LOOSE grip and correct bat angle, AND finishing the stroke with good touch and feel. We can read about it on the forums, but we all have to put the effective training time in to get there. ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 09/01/2013 at 10:41am
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Alqa... You will be surprised at how many times I get those OX LP players to block my topspin serves long/out. There is an art to selling a serve to get them to read the ball wrong. You would also be surprised at how some of these same OX LP players can short chop block my extreme heavy/fast speed drives as well in a rally, simply unreal. They train that SO LONG as well as how to deal with no-spin balls. ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/01/2013 at 10:51am
| Alqa, make sure when you are returning serve, that you are not gripping the blade too tightly. |
Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 09/01/2013 at 11:16am
It's a paid act. ------------- Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
Posted By: Alqa
Date Posted: 09/02/2013 at 2:17am
Yep Thanks Ball, I see how the dynamic of holding the bat too tight might lead for more out return, it's just a habit and it's hard to change all the sudden, I think holding the racket too tightly contributed to my wrist injury, especially when I used to practice 3 hours a day awhile ago. |
Posted By: Alqa
Date Posted: 09/02/2013 at 2:20am
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Posted By: Alqa
Date Posted: 09/02/2013 at 2:22am
Thanks, there is a learning curve in TT, and we just started lol .. |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 09/02/2013 at 1:10pm
Like you described, it is easy to know HOW to make a short return, but doing it in practice, then in a match under pressure is another animal altogether. If you practice it a lot and can succeed, then LATER, like many months later, the success in matches doing this follows. In the meantime, match performance using that shot might be same or even worse. That is how it goes. If one can learn how to move to the incoming loop, get right next to the ball and use a very loose wrist, then later, it is much easier to learn how to push an underspin ball short. ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: Alqa
Date Posted: 09/03/2013 at 3:11pm
| Most defiantly, I would read stuff and watch video, but putting that into the real is totally different thing. Practice will make it better, that what TT masters say here. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/03/2013 at 6:19pm
Ha ha Alqa! I would be worried about the TT masters that would say that practice will make it worse! You would want to defy them! Take care of your wrist. It is possible that your grip contributes. |
Posted By: Alqa
Date Posted: 09/04/2013 at 7:10am
Haha Thanks Ball ... I only play once a week currently and putting extreme wrist support that restrict my hand motion a bit, like I can't return a severe using backhand flick etc .. My dr suggested so .. |