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Category: Coaching & Tips
Forum Name: Coaching & Tips
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URL: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63123 Printed Date: 05/01/2024 at 7:00pm Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Extreme balancePosted By: andy.h
Subject: Extreme balance
Date Posted: 10/08/2013 at 6:58pm
I often go off balance during my "big" shots, so I was watching youtube videos and reading stuff on how to keep balance and went across this thing:
Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 10/09/2013 at 4:26am
I can think of this being so handy for those lazy kids, who don't want to put in the extra effort
Posted By: pingpongpaddy
Date Posted: 10/09/2013 at 7:07am
what happened to the coach saying in a loud voice "BEND YOUR KNEES" cheaper, and just as effective
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FH moristo sp AX MAX
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Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 10/09/2013 at 9:00am
pingpongpaddy wrote:
what happened to the coach saying in a loud voice "BEND YOUR KNEES" cheaper, and just as effective
I find it that certain cultures (compared to Chinese), kids are lazy and more spoilt and can't really take much hardship. Like in South Africa, some of them talk back, but I have my ways of handling it. The worse is the ones who walk so slow at any given time. Looks like the walking dead!
I chatted to many coaches in China which hosted foreign training camps, and they also say, they had hard time getting those kids to "behave". And most importantly, we (Chinese), dont need to use loud voice.
So I feel, for these type of problems, these "hand cuffs" are a great idea
Posted By: V-Griper
Date Posted: 10/09/2013 at 9:23am
I like it. I will have to McGuyver one. Seems pretty simple to make.
Thanks.
------------- DHS 301 Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH
Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 10/09/2013 at 9:36am
okay, I just saw the price now.....
Posted By: andy.h
Date Posted: 10/09/2013 at 11:18am
V-Griper wrote:
I like it. I will have to McGuyver one. Seems pretty simple to make.
Yeah, that's what I am thinking about too: should be pretty simple to make. May be not super-adjustable like the one they sell, but who cares - I'll adjust it for myself and never change afterwards.
Posted By: andy.h
Date Posted: 10/09/2013 at 11:21am
ZApenholder wrote:
I can think of this being so handy for those lazy kids, who don't want to put in the extra effort
I am not so sure about kids. Kids in our club seem to pick right strokes/postures/footwork/serves just by watching top players play.
I am talking about adults, who have bad habits, slow muscle memory, etc. I'm 35 and I forgot to keep my knees bent and bounce on the balls of my feet after my second stroke. First stroke is fine if I focus on it, second sends me off balance, on the third I am all lost and unbalanced.
Posted By: V-Griper
Date Posted: 10/09/2013 at 1:41pm
So technically - how low should one be to be in perfect balance? Almost to a sitting position? That doesn't seem right to me. (Not that I can get that low)
So technically - how low should one be to be in perfect balance? Almost to a sitting position? That doesn't seem right to me. (Not that I can get that low)
The sitting position makes the muscles stronger, but you are not that athletic, is not necessary. The trade off must be struck between geting low and lateral movement. Some people don't realize this but lateral movement is easier when standing straight.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 10/10/2013 at 10:23am
So technically - how low should one be to be in perfect balance? Almost to a sitting position? That doesn't seem right to me. (Not that I can get that low)
The sitting position makes the muscles stronger, but you are not that athletic, is not necessary. The trade off must be struck between geting low and lateral movement. Some people don't realize this but lateral movement is easier when standing straight.
I've certainly noticed it in myself. If I get down low on svc return like the pro's, my legs aren't strong enough to move in a crab fashion. I have to be more upright, get in position, then lower myself if I have time.
------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b
Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 10/10/2013 at 10:27am
Timo Boll is probably the top level player who has the widest stance as far as feet apart are concerned; then to keep his balance and comfortably bounce right and left he crouches: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=p_djGyH52tY#t=79" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=p_djGyH52tY#t=79
Forcing ourselves to increase the distance between our feet will increase our balance as a side effect. It is an easy way to achieve the OP's goal but it takes so much discipline; I keep trying but matches will make it go away. It is a long term goal and a matter of dedication; as strategic as "the base of everything" in our game.
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 10/10/2013 at 10:33am
So technically - how low should one be to be in perfect balance? Almost to a sitting position? That doesn't seem right to me. (Not that I can get that low)
The sitting position makes the muscles stronger, but you are not that athletic, is not necessary. The trade off must be struck between geting low and lateral movement. Some people don't realize this but lateral movement is easier when standing straight.
I've certainly noticed it in myself. If I get down low on svc return like the pro's, my legs aren't strong enough to move in a crab fashion. I have to be more upright, get in position, then lower myself if I have time.
Exactly - I have bad knees so it is even harder. When I said the sitting position is not necessary, I really meant that you can use it to improve how low you are comfortable staying (as an exercise), but when actually playing, one does not have to be that low/wide constantly unless you are really athletic.
Actually, WLQ, ZJK and some of the Chinese are lower than Timo Boll. It's just muscular table tennis. If you play that way, sure, but I am not Superman. It's not so much discipline as it is that you need to athletic preparation to get there.
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Posted By: V-Griper
Date Posted: 10/10/2013 at 1:08pm
So technically - how low should one be to be in perfect balance? Almost to a sitting position? That doesn't seem right to me. (Not that I can get that low)
A given persons balance is determined by their center of gravity not exceeding the area of stability. If you draw a line around your feet as they rest on the floor with your feet splayed slightly the shape will be a rough trapezoid. Now if you draw an imaginary line vertically through your center of gravity the dot on the floor would be within that trapezoid. If you lean too far in any given direction and that dot goes outside the border of that trapezoid you are will be unstable to the point of having to "recover" your balance. i.e. put the dot back inside the trapezoid.
Now You cannot change the length of your feet so the front to back distance that you have to work with is fixed. You can, however, spread your feet out increasing the side to side length of the trapezoid. The height of your CG is just an indicator of how easily that dot can be moved around. Lower harder to move, higher easier to move.
Basically it's about optimizing CG management for a particular action than being at a particular height.
What is more important is the ability to generate power and transfer it efficiently to the ball without loosing balance. That's the tricky bit.
What I tend to look at more is the acute angle formed by the shoulder, hips and knees. This is where the majority of the power is generated. It also seems to be very symmetrical in the better players. If you draw a horizontal line through the hip the angle of the leg is the mirror opposite of the torso angle. The opening, closing and rotating of that joint system is the primary source of power and control for any given shot imo. Especially the BH. Most important is that one does not have to be particularly low to use it. ML is a prime example.
------------- DHS 301 Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH
Posted By: jrscatman
Date Posted: 10/10/2013 at 3:29pm
V-Griper thanks for the detailed explanation - hard to visualize without diagram.
Here is Ma Long - doesn't look like he gets down too low
Yeah I thought of that after I posted. There have been a lot very technical posts in the last month or so.
Here is a very good non technical overview of balance as it relates to human movement. It's for animation students but does a very good job of explaining things.
Ma Long is a good example of not being incredibly low. Your example is of him doing a warm up counter hit which is not indicative of heavy training or match play. The thing to pay more attention too is what I referred too earlier with regard to the shoulder, hip, knee angle. Notice how this opens and closes in conjunction with a rotation around the vertical axis. This is something that most amateurs can't do well If they can do it at all. Most players use bits and pieces of that coordination but more often than not just use the shoulder muscles to execute their strokes.
To make a point their are allot of high level players who don't have good kinetic chains so having one is not in and of itself sufficient. You can reach a high level by stroking with your shoulder muscles if your timing is really good. Not to mention spin reading and a good serve. But it is big part of what separates the best from the rest imo.
Here is an example of getting low and this is mainly due to the fact that he is looping underspin.
------------- DHS 301 Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 10/11/2013 at 9:02am
Here are two recent posts Larry Hodges made on balance and a wider stance:
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...