it's such a bad idea to play with too fast equipment. being able to smash back and forth with U1600 doesn't mean they're ready for a high level blade. who recommended mj and vis w/ tenergy to this guy? $500 down the drain

But I agree - some beginners do over spend. Actually, most beginners do ....I did it when I started now I'm cheap! 

So U gotta beat them bad. Price will get cheaper. 

@jrscatman yea, he'd have trouble with beginner equipment also, but at least a better chance instead of relying on the equipment speed and ending up with a flat smacking technique. 

that he was smashing at me from the start when i fed the ball nice and easy, the smug arrogance, and that he was using fast blades including my precious Viscaria  that i decided to teach him a lesson. he was not just smashing, but smashing random, then intentionally trying a wide fh, bh down the line combo when he saw i was covering everything fh. then he started serving short and low on purpose for a change, as if to prevent me from attacking strong. we were practicing rallying so i don't take it nicely when someone tries to serve short, half-long all of a sudden w/o telling you. so i loop killed those a couple times in a row. that probably being the last thing he could attempt, i think i proved my pt. even vs a basic technique, he couldn't do anything. "let me change my racket" after missing? lol. as if it were the racket. 1000+ pts difference and no respect to the technique. r u kidding me 

I withdraw my objection - can't stand players who don't know the difference between match play and practice. Also players with the attitude.

So at one point I told him we are not trying to win a point here, we are doing warm up and drills. I guess he doesn't understand. The next time he asked me to play, I simply didn't spend too much warm up time with him and have him played a set with me and finish him off quickly 

Could not believe u practiced with this cartoon for an hour. Play games and let him earn only couple points. I would do very curvy mixed pendulum serve. See these toony scratch their heads is priceless.

(Anyway u would still be aggravated when he says this blade is new, too slow, not suitable to his style blah blah..... Sometimes u  could not wake them up. Let them be. Do like the Avallo said: Beat them and buy their gears cheap. )

when I said hard smash from this gentleman, it was more like random hard smash with no control or purpose.

That being said, Schlager carbon with normal hurricanes both sides was a silly idea. 

He may benefit from using something different, but he could also take great benefit from leaning to control powerful shots from a better player with a setup he has invested in. 

I was the same way in warm ups, trying to smash or win everything, before I started trying to get better, watching training videos and professional matches. It took me only a month or two of playing to realize the error of my ways. I was getting better faster than many of my peers who started at the same time, and had to explain to them how to warm up.

I asked them have you ever seen any of the top players warm up? They don't try to win points, or hit balls all over the table. hit forehand across court and then backhands. If you have more time you can do loops, pushes, drills, etc.

Even after this they still liked winning points when they got to the table. I insisted on a "professional warmup". This changed their attitude and it benefited everyone.

So i just lob the ball for him, he lost to everyone here.
He was kinda adorable 
after the match he said ,
MANNN I just tried, I ran here and you guys drain my energy.

I too condescendingly beat up on novice players because of their misguided equipment purchases.

 

That is exactly what that Pyungtaek TT president was doing the 3-5 minutes prior to that clip I posted a year or so ago. You try to place the ball easy to the Fh so they can keep rallying, but when they get that easy ball in the FH powerzone, it is power smash. Old dude can still smash pretty hard with J-Pen anywhere they want and smile with glee. I'm all for an older gent being happy, but in a game he has got to earn it not as easy as that. I was quickly losing patience with picking up the ball every 3rd ball. That match I was still taking it easy on him, not going all out attack, giving him balls he might like but are low percentage, allowing him to miss a lot and occasionally going on offense with spin or 1-2 loopkill or smash. That was enough to discourage him. I think some one convinced him he could smash the foreigner or the foreigner's spins were weak.

is the gene that allows them to see what's happening outside of their own little world

:)

It's not so much a price point, but more of the binary variable that is whether the equipment is made by Butterfly.

—

EDIT: Reading over what I wrote here, I realize it can be read sounding a bit "high horse-ish"... was really not intended that way.

"Remember. It's not the racket. And attitude!"

"Topspin. lives in everything i do ___... everything is topspin loop" 

1 - Beginners with expensive equipment. I will always think it's stupid, unnecessary & damaging to your technique to go out and spend 200-300 on your first blade but what do I care if they blow their money.

2 - As far as the coming right out and smashing thing, some people just don't know (in fact a lot of people as I think about it) how to warm up. Beginners at least have an excuse because they're new. They just need to either be taught how to warm up or need to watch professional matches and pay attention two the 2 minute warm-up before play starts. 

But there are several people at the club I attend where their idea of warm-up is like playing points. Most of the time I will just give half effort (I'm not going to go chasing balls) and if I feel like the practice is bad, I'll simply ask to start the match... Might as well if you're playing match like points anyways.

Shoot my best friend at the club is guilty of this. He never does counter-driving warm up. Everything turns into step away from the table and start going for monster loops.

SMH.

What can you do.

I had a similar encounter - since the player in question was good friend - I asked about this behaviour. I thought his answer might be useful for everyone to understand their side

He says to me. "At my age, it's very rare in matches I would get any chance to hit balls like that - so every time an opportunity presents itself - I'm gonna take it - practice or not!"

So now when we practice, I just try to set him up for some smashes - practice my retrieval skills. It's not too bad since I like playing defensive style. 

I like this idea 

In fact - I can offer a suggestion - when a person misses the table - we switch sides - so the person who hit the shot can go collect the ball and be on the side closest to the ball!

Yep agreed.

If you ever get the chance to warm up with Nathan or Quan, they're excellent warm-up partners for getting in a groove quickly.

The other player has proven to be less successful.  He doesn't take advice easily (from anyone), and is still stuck in beginner mode after all these years.  Still smacks every ball like he did when he first started playing,  and is always asking why he misses so many shots.  The answer is always the same, get a coach, practice proper technique, and practice some more.  His response is the same also, "I already know how to do it, just tell me why I miss so much!"

This second type player is the one that incites the venom you hear in the posts.  There are some players you just can't help  they already "know it all," and are looking for the "magic" that will make them better players. 

i like the idea of whoever misses picks up the ball, because the person then has to walk all the way behind me, and return to his side before we can start hitting again

you'd think they'd get tired of that, after a while.....

:)

Wow, very friendly, productive, and intelligent method. Kind of like wax on, wax off, but better.

debraj,

You got wrong impression here. Newbies' expensive gear does not bother good players much. It is the attitude toward playing. In this case 3 things happened. Read OP's opening thread.

== ================

1. What someone paid for their equipment is really none of my business. They most likely overpaid, but so does 80% of this forum, folks with EJ affliction in particular. May be they got bad advice, may be they don't consider it expensive, who cares - not your money.  

2. Not sure what's up with 'not my equal' and 'must teach a lesson' - this attitude rubs me the wrong way. You are both TT players and paying customers.

When I play 1600 player, I am 1900.

I don't think a lot higher level players  kill lower players with all over loops and feel fun.   They mostly let lower players exploit things, play to have fun but they still control the point.

 

But when there is a big air-head shows arrogant, and not respect their lot higher level skill. I think they should show the different in level.

 

I think TT is nice and humble already. What will happen if a beginner level talks trash, goes to the high level guys, acts cocky and asks for sparring match.    

 

==========================================

Do you even know how to loop? You make it sound like you make a choice but I have a feeling your game is much like pushblocker anyway.

Of course. 

Innershield ZLF is a BTY synthetic blade. Slow like a turtle, soft like cotton.

And the op sounds obnoxious to me. You must think you are really cool, you are the boss, for 'showing' that noob and 'teaching him a lesson'. Why didn't u just tell him friendly that YOU THINK his paddle is too fast? Fool..

Seems like there are 3 topics here-

 

 

If I encounter a player that likes to hit winners (worse, at my level or above my level) during practice I usually will try to return  the best I can for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes of me chasing the ball I just jump to, "it looks like you're ready let's play". Only a couple of times has someone said no.

 

If the person is significantly below my level plays a match with me, I'll usually will ask do you want me to give my best effort or do you want me to take it easy. I get about half that say give me your best and the other half says you can take it easy. So I will try to fulfill their wishes.

Doreamon,

So the question of whether OP actually spoke to the 1200 as opposed to just make the 1200 think that warming up harder against the OP was hard because the OP could warm up harder than the 1200 is important.  Assiduous is simply saying more directly what I said earlier that many people who warm up poorly should be talked to before being treated like jerks.   You can take the OP's approach as well, but do it knowing that you might be promoting the problem, not solving it.  On the other hand, practicing killing weaker balls consistently is important because the aggressive mindset is important when facing higher rated players - the OP can do that but only ideally if it is within his hitting pace and for a 1200 vs 2100+, it usually is.  It's one of the reasons why people mess up on the "Guess the Rating" competitions.  They identify many theoretically weaker balls that the opponent should be eating up, but people who don't kill weaker balls on a consistent basis don't eat those balls up!

Doreamon,

I agree with most of what you have written.  Players who refuse to warm up reasonably can be very annoying.  As I have gotten better, what I can tolerate during a warm up has expanded, but there is nothing I hate more than someone who won't produce some kind of rhythm to the warm-up.  However, the OP never said he spoke to the 1200.  And relooping a 1200 attack on a regular serve is not as hard as it sounds if you are 2000+ and know where the ball is going.  What is not clear is whether the 1200 was told that 1200 could choose a different warmup routine if 1200 asked.  

I was a tournament and during a break, a SP-LP combo player asked me to warm up during the break.  He was rated about 1500 or so on paper (I think he could have upset the right customer about 200 pts above him if he found that customer).  I agreed.  He then started blocking and smashing the ball randomly all over the table.  I simply asked him what he was trying to work on (I might have been more patient during a club match, but while I like spinning to pips anytime, I am not going to ruin my timing during a tournament).  He apologized and started to go into a more traditional crosscourt pattern with open play on mishits, saying that people almost never agree to warm up with him because he uses pips so he is not used to it.  He just changed from inverted so I didn't fully accept this explanation in my head, but at least, he started a pattern.  I didn't loop softly, but he didn't need to hold back on his hits and blocks as long as they followed the pattern.

I don't think experienced players should feed newbies nice easy balls during a warm-up (as opposed to lesson or tutorial).  We should feed them balls that are consistent with our warm up routine and which have a consistent pattern to the opponent.  If someone is lower rated and can't handle my hitting tempo, which is mostly a reflection of their pace, I'm not going to ruin my technique anymore to accommodate them (that's what I mean by Cobra Kai TT) unless they are paying me to coach, in which case I will do mostly multi-ball.  Higher rated players don't ruin their strokes to accommodate me during warm-ups.

the faster, stronger, spinnier, stiffer, highest, lowest - whatever "maxed" out terminology

will be best for their game

whereas, with veteran players - the search is for tinkering and tailoring (and spending) for the best combination of tendencies/qualities the equipment can do for their game - not always necessarily 'maxed' out equipment

:)

 

The better your strokes, the more reliably you can evaluate the effect of equipment on it.  It's easy to imagine what an MJ with T64 on both sides is doing for your shots, but if you don't have a consistent stroke and understand the real impact of microadjustments to it, you can believe the speed is good or bad for your overall play without having a clue.  The lower your level, the harder it is to even know how the equipment is impacting your stroke or the more complicated question of your overall game.

This aimed at me? I'm not one to look off constructive criticism. However I do have a consistent stroke, many people I play compliment me on it. Especially my backhand. I could understand better microadjustments to my stroke though, but I also haven't played in several years and this will come back with time. I have developed a high comfort level with my current setup, and I think changing to anything else would be detrimental to my game.

 

Disclaimer:  The examples were meant to be fictitious - any resemblance to actual events or persons is purely accidental.