Most players still swear by Tenergy, but this could easily come down to force of habit, marketing, reluctance to try something new, hype.

There are several players who have spoken highly and switched to the Tibhar Evolution series (which is possibly Tenergy's main rival).

Donic Bluefire (M series and JP series) also have gathered good following as do XIOM Omega and Sigma series.  Yasaka Rakza series has to be considered too. Joola MAXXX and Rasant maybe but I think Rasant is not as good (don't know about Joola Maxxx)

So what's your take, which of the alternatives do you like and do you prefer any rubber to a Tenergy (omitting price concerns) ?

Depends on the individual , and in my personal opinion there are are variety of rubbers similar or better quality than Tenergies as long as you can find the right sponge density and feel. 

Agreed, and which would they be for you? As I said for me Adidas P7 is better than Tenergy and I would never switch, Rassant Stiga Calibra or XIOM Vega for example are NOT.

Lets put it this way , i find it hard to play anything but tenergy 64 / 64FX on my BH and i like Calibra /Evolution MXP / Rhyzm 48 all equally good on my FH . 

Petermoo

I believe Tibhar, Donic, Joola, Xiom and Andro specify what characteristics they would like to see in their rubbers Sponge hardness, color etc.

I believe ESN presents them with technological innovations and the companies decide how to market that technology. SO to answer you directly, i believe they share ONE group of rubber scientist.

We have seen how much difference there is between the Tenergies (which is basically just one rubber formulation) same sponge,same hardness,  same rubber just different pip spacings and sizes and I think this explains why among the ESN's there is infinitely more variation different sponges, different hardnesses, different rubbers, different pip spacings and sizes.

Now a question for you.

Which two ESN rubbers have you found to be exactly identical?

Petermoo

I don't know about surpassing, and it depends on personal preference, but one thing is 100% sure: you remove Tenergy from the market, and there will be a big hole. No, there are no clones yet, nothing feels like tenergy. 

Rhyzm, Tenzone, Evolution, Bluefire are all great rubbers, in all of their million flavors. But you can remove any of them and nobody will notice. Please.. they all so the same. 

XIOM is one level lower than the above list, and without lower price i don't think anyone would buy them. Their sponges are deader than ESN, but livelier than Chinese.

Chinese rubbers.. without tuning are a tough challenge. Unless you are a chinese and are used to this masochism :)

This is in fact what I use on my BH and again - despite 12 or so hrs of Tenergy practice / match play - I stuck to Rakza 7. It does everything the tenergy could do, possibly gives more spin on heavy pushes and blocks much much better... opening, aggressive spin, placement etc....are all superb so I cannot point out any weakness of R7 on the BH.

Spin?  Speed?  Feel?

All these rubbers are similar enough so they can all generate the same impulse that will generate identical trajectories.  It will take a different stroke for each rubber to generate an identical trajectory. Mostly it comes to preference due to feel and style.

I can't believe that the best rubbers made by ESN for each of the major TT vendors are that different.

I have had 4 sheets of T05 and 2 sheets of T25.  T05 and T25 are completely different even though they have the same sponge.  The T25's bigger pips seem to change the rubber from T05 a lot.

I have hit with it .. on top of Xiom Zetro Quad blade. Its not slow, good control, but very typical XIOM feeling.. something between Euro and Chinese. All xiom rubbers have the same xiom feel.. its really curious why that is so. Like all tenergies have same feeling. Xiom sponge is just not elastic. No catapult. This is not necessarily bad, and I personally know very good players who tell me they hate the catapult effect of tenergy. Just saying... don't browse through the XIOM catalog looking for a cheaper euro rubber. The don't feel the same.

Hey, i never said what rubber is good or bad for who. Those 2600 that came to our tournament played with Chinese H3 on FH so.. I personally own a lot of blades and rubbers, but don't use tenergy at all. Its not expensive, it is just too jumpy for my taste. But I can still recognize and appreciate the completely unique contact with the ball. Elasticity of the sponge is Tenergy> Germans> Korean>Chinese. That is for sure, no matter what you like better.

Then tt brands come over and spec the final product in terms of sponge hardness, pip geometry, the amount of boost etc. That's where you get the variations, and naturally some of these configurations will be better balanced/tuned than others.

Every now and then ESN's r&d team gets a breakthrough (or a leap forward at least) and that's how you get the next generation of rubbers.

I'm back on tenergy both sides at the moment, occasionally M2 on the backhand although I wouldn't go as far as to say Tenergy is best. There are a large number of rubbers coming from ESN across all manufacturers and amongst those I'm sure there will be a couple that suit my game just as well as Tenergy. I just don't have the inclination to try everything that comes new on the market. The ones that I tried I would call them 'playable' (which is sometimes good enough), but for some reason or another short of optimal on advanced game where the gear starts to matter a lot in statistical terms (rate of success). 

On top of that, every blade has a rubber combo that works best with it. Even the glue can make a big difference. There are the inert ones (non-elastic like turbofix etc.), soft-elastic (finezip, dianchi) and hard-elastic (revolution no.3) and they can all yield different results on the same blade and rubbers.

I play with Xiom but i definitely don't feel i am at a disadvantage against someone with Tenergy! But that being said I respect the R&D and the marketing team at BTY for Tenergy, it didn't dominate the market and continues to do for no reason! 

That's why I always say tenergy is the best of the expensive rubbers.

+1

The pros keep on using tenergies..........

No need to look for another evidence.

P7 is great, razka are not bad, xiom omega are good ones but.......tenergies are better.

So are you saying that, in comparison to MX-P, Omega V Tour, Rakza X, Tenergy is like a tuned chinese rubber and that those 3 ESN variants tend to pop and float the ball on pushes?

but i do agree with others, i've been playing with Omega V euro for about 2 months now and it doesnt "feel" the same as tenergy, where as other ESN rubbers feel similar to omega V euro (like bluefire, JP series, etc.)

Have you tried rakza 7 soft or rakza 9 on either hands???

What would you guys recommend on a weaker backhand for mostly blocks and pushes??? Rakza 7, Rakza 7 soft or Rakza 9???

I currently have rakza 7 soft on my forehand and I find it to be a bit slower, although it's control is good. So thinking to switch it to my weaker backhand and add Rakza 7 on my stronger FH.

On topic: 

So you are saying Tenergy is the most consistent and controlled rubber once you get used to it???

And amongst the Tenergies, which one is the most consistent and controlled??? Tenergy 05???

Needs to and wants to are two different things.

unstopabl3 wrote: I've only ever tried Rakza and Mark V sheets, I don't think anybody below 2000 really needs to spend more than this.

So you do not know what to put on your backhand and you only ever tried Rakza and Mark V, yet you are telling us we do not need Tenergy?!

Did I say that or even imply that? Don't know why people like to start an argument and try to prove their superiority.

I simply stated my opinion, you either agree with it or you don't. You purchase and use whatever the heck you want bro.

I'm saying what little I've tried tenergy, it's more linear and predictable than the esn counterparts.  I tried acuda not long ago and it was good and linear, but not as bouncy or fast...didn't have the kick.

As to types, I couldn't generate enough spin on serves with the 06 (that's the harder kind right).  The second time I tried the softer 05 (is that right?), I found it still predictable in it's deformation, but a lot easier to serve with.  That was an excellent rubber, imo.

Rasant 2.0 FH/BH  nice rubbers, blade weight Plus cut rubbers 185

MX-P    2.0 FH/Rakza X BH, blade weight plus cut rubbers         180

P7        2.0 FH Rasant Grip BH, blade weight plus cut rubbers    175

Best set up to date is the P7/RGrip:

1.  RGrip way better then Rakza X, 

2.  P7, best serve spin, reverse pendulum serve has unreal spin and movement, right hand pendulum had low bounce tight spacing, great backspin & sidespin, loops I need to adjust racket angle not as easy to lift BS but topspin drives were strong, excellent control.   

3.  All three set ups have a similar feel but the P7/Grip setup is the most dynamic 

4.  Cost difference between P7 setup and Tenergy: $48.00

06??

So, cole_ely, what new-generation ESN rubbers have you tried playing with (that you base your assertion on)?

Also, when are the 38deg Big Dippers coming? :)

>For me it's not even the speed per se, but the second derivative - that is, acceleration. The catapult effect in ESN tensors comes on, usually, so abruptly and often unexpected... that really bugs me, especially in over-the-table play, shorter placement shots etc.

The evident difference in the material itself is that Tenergy has quite a bit of "stick" for a non-chinese rubber, same as you get with Yinhe's or such after a bit. There's that gummy-ish feel if you dig a finger into the topsheet and work it around. In a way Tenergy is basically faster version of those rubbers & vice versa.

This property seems to help increase the "margin for acceptable shots" and in a sense make your play appear to have bit more finesse than it might. It's not so much ESN are unpredictable, just punish more for execution outside its comfortable range; ie bit less versatile if you will. If your play tends to be in that range already then it matters less.

My guess is he was talking about 64 and 05.

I used Tenergy 05 for quite a while, then switched over to Bluefire M2, and have been quite happy.  Recently I've been in EJ mode.  Tried Big Dipper, Rasant Grip, Razka X, and EL-P, oh and Tenergy 80.

I could play with any of these after a short adjustment period, but none of them have anything to make me want to replace my Bluefire.  It simply works well for my strokes, and I'm comfortable using it, even twiddling and using it on the backhand is easy.  

Each of these has it's own strengths, and if I couldn't get the M2 anymore, I would just pick up one of these and move forward.  If I were only going to loop everything I'd probably choose 05 or Big Dipper.  As I've gotten older this is less advantageous for me (I'm slower and don't get into position like I used to).  So these other rubbers bring other options to the table and for me are simply more forgiving on a lot of shots.

Well said, same holds for me.  I have tried the Calibras, Acudas, Magna, IQ, 5Q, Killerspin, 05 and 05FX. I found Andro Hexer HD just right for my strokes.

this is correct

i tried razka not long ago...that counts right?  I tried a xiom or two, but that's japanese made, right?

You touch Tenergy and it is like a fabric . All the other rubbers are like paper , domed  or under-domed etc.

Yeah, but which Rakza? which Xiom? There's a marked difference in the grippiness & short game play of the new gen rubbers (RX, OVT, MX-P) vs the older ones. The new gen 47.5 deg rubbers are more chinese-like than Tenergy for sure.

Not my area of expertise, obviously.  I knew xiom was a Korean brand, but I didn't know who was making it.

Paddle Palace gives Vega Europe very similar speed/spin ratings to Tenergy 05.  Of course that doesn't at all mean they have the same feel, but considering how well Vega Europe plays and its durability, I'd say its one of the best performance per dollar ones out there.  I beat lots of people using Tenergy all the time!  

I found the durability of VE to be particularly bad though I did initially liked how it played. After about 8 weeks balls suddenly started to slip off the rubber (and fall into the net) when I tried to loop over the table. I switched to T05 and never looked back. Besides the feel that I like (which is a subjective thing)  it is more durable than the ESN rubbers I tried and in particular it does not seem to go bad overnight (like the VE) but it is more of a gradual decline. The T05 can be revived after a few month with a couple of layers of booster and you can plat it again for another 4-6 weeks. Whereas with ESN rubbers the topsheet wears out and then you can throw it in the trash.

Xiom Omega V Europe.

The sponge is exactly the same hardness as T05 (I'm not basing this on reading somewhere - I actually compared 2 new sheets of T05 & XVE last night). However, the topsheet is softer (typical Xiom) giving it a distinctly softer feel.

So, in a way, it is like Tenergy 64 (in that it is a 45 deg sponge but plays softer than T05 due to the topsheet) but with better spin. I like it's soft topsheet feel for BH.

It's throw is similar to T64 & it spins better at the table though I like T64 slightly better for hitting / punching. The big difference is that on slow strokes, it isn't jumpy (like T64 is) and is better in the short game.

It is not jumpy like the Bluefire M series and IMHO, has a better topsheet than the JP series.

Not sure of durability but I'll update in a few months.

TT Japan US dollar pricing: Shipping Air mail Registered tracking insured:  $39.43 PLUS SHIPPING $5.

PADDLE PALACE:  TENERGY:  $67.99

Tenzone TT Japan:  40.15 plus shipping

Both rubbers significantly cheaper then Tenergy....

Tenergy is fixed at what....60+ USD?

big difference in price, 

but price is not part of this argument - the point is.... to discuss whether other rubbers have surpassed it's properties or improved upon it, or whether another rubber with different properties may be better now.

JimT wrote: JimT wrote: patrickhrdlicka wrote: I am fully in the P7 camp. Fantastic rubber. I will soon be testing Tenzone Ultra SF, which I have very high expectations for. It is indeed a very good rubber but very heavy - about 49-50-51 g weight of the cut sheet. That's way too much, if you ask me. But for some players, who are OK with heavier setups, it would be OK. Also - as far as I recall - P7 is at least as expensive as Tenergy, sometimes (in some stores, I mean) even more expensive. Where is the point then, really?

Looks like too many Adiddas fan trying to derail the actual topic of concern - " Has tenergy been surpassed"   - Not really much in their prices 

ANDRO Rasant been one of the rubber I've really enjoyed playing with it. The Evolution series from TIBHAR is very good and even CORNILLEAU has some very good  rubbers , quite underrated brand, imo. 

 completely agree with that.

Furthermore, I actually recently tested out the Andro Rasant Turbo rubber that a friend from my club had been wielding. I was utterly shocked when I discovered how weak the shots were and how dead the rubber seemed, even though it was only a few weeks old. With that being said, I think Rasant is a quality rubber, and the Razka 7 and Hurricane Neo series are comparable as well. However, saying that Tenergy has been surpassed seems like an erroneous statement at this point in time. 

 Modest.com.pl has it at $37.

http://asztalitenisz-pingpong.hu/ 

Well, please note that I never said the rubber in totality was "weak." I am simply saying that in terms of power, some of the counter drives are not nearly as powerful as Tenergy's. I believe that Rasant and similar rubbers are very strong in certain regards, juts not strong enough to surpass Tenergy. 

So are you using Tenergy because it gives you consistency or because it is popular among the pros? Because your last statement somewhat contradicts the second last.

so if the pro's start all using rakza 7, then you'll use that?

I have now had a chance to test the Adidas Tenzone Ultra SF (~8h). If you are used to P7, you will be able to adjust to this rubber quite easily. Compared to P7 it is less tacky, and has slightly less spin and slightly lower throw. It is 10% faster, lighter, and has a louder sound when looping (due to the slightly softer sponge??).

In conclusion - if you have been playing with P7 and wishing for a tad more speed, without sacrificing (much) control and spin, this is your rubber.      

Agreed - I've tried finding all sorts of alternatives for T05 for RPB and used MX-P for a good period of time, but after a while I found myself constantly doubting the rubber's consistency against high amounts of spin.  I think if Tenergy will ever be surpassed, it will be as an entirely different class of rubber rather than imitations of the grippy topsheet + porous springy sponge formula.

1. They feel it's the best for their style/needs.

2. They're sponsored.

3. They moved to it just after it was released and it was clearly better at that time, and nothing on the market is significantly better so the adjustment time for a switch can't be justified.

There is a LOT more ESN/Stiga being used these days at the pro level, and you can apply some of the same provisos above to that too.  But at my average amateur level the differences in performance between recent ESN and Tenergy are very small.  And going back to the OP...

Totally agree with NL. It's very hard to top out Tenergy, it redlines at 1000. While some tensors I've used redline at 100, and you get wacky flying balls, only can flat hit back.

What work do you do? AgentHex knows more about it than you do. What colored undergarments did you wear today? Ask AgentHex.

By the way, for all fellow Tenergy fanboys, I have a trade:

I have a brand new, unsealed T05 2.1 (red) that I'd be willing to trade with 2 of your new MX-P / M1 Turbo / OVT (the 1:2 ratio is based on current prices).

Please PM me if interested.