Fish scaled Viscaria???
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Topic: Fish scaled Viscaria???
Posted By: unstopabl3
Subject: Fish scaled Viscaria???
Date Posted: 07/03/2015 at 4:25pm
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Is it really worth paying extra for a fish scale wood design viscaria??? Does it play better than the simple one? Anybody has experience with the two types and can compare the performance please??? Here is a link: http://ttnpp.com/store/home/818-butterfly-viscaria--7.html#/weight-91_92g BTW is viscaria faster than TBS if two blades have same weight? Thanks |
Replies:
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 9:28am
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Any help guys??? |
Posted By: proSpin
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 9:31am
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Why dont u buy one to try and you will know? If it doesn't interest you, why bother finding out about its characteristics. Just buy! ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52684&KW=kenet&PID=649009&title=feedback-prospin#649009" rel="nofollow - My Feedbacks |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 9:34am
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Maybe because I don't have money to buy two just to TEST/Compare them, so better to ask if anybody has already done this. |
Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 9:41am
Are they serious? ------------- Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=page&id=42" rel="nofollow - Tenergy Alternatives | http://tabletennis-reviews.com" rel="nofollow - My TT Articles |
Wood surface with fish scale pattern are the best in quality. Less than 10% of the blades are having this wood pattern.Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 9:42am
That was also my question/concern lol |
Posted By: proSpin
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 10:09am
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Okay okay...... let me break it down for you..... Scaly koto differs from average koto in terms of feel. Just like how light colored limba feels different from dark and dense one. The grain determines the feeling most of the time. Scaly kotos are generally harder than the non-scaly ones. In my opinion too stiff and hard to give me the dwell i require in blades. Some players like it,some players dont. Collectors love it. Why is it more expensive is probably becos its not something u see everyday... I have specially bought scaly koto viscaria or tb series blades just to collect. Gameplay wise i myself prefer non scaly. Some people may doubt my theory abt scaly koto. But well, not everyone here has the same feel. ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52684&KW=kenet&PID=649009&title=feedback-prospin#649009" rel="nofollow - My Feedbacks |
Posted By: JohnnyChop
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 1:07pm
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somebody told me once that scales have to do with which part of the tree the wood comes from… suppose to be better but who knows The chinese people loves the scaled blades… ------------- 729 Battle 2 Yasaka Goibao 5 Nittaku Fastarc G1 Nittaku Fastarc G1 Butterfly Cypress Max |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 3:01pm
Thanks for breaking it down, stiffer means more speed correct? |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 3:02pm
Yeah that's what my perception is as well, but can anyone other than "prospin" confirm how it differs in playing? |
Posted By: OldSchool
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 4:54pm
You get fish scale pattern if the wood gets quartersawn, so no it's not a better piece of wood. This discussion was just up over at, TT Daily http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?10800-Fish-scales-pattern-Viscaria |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 5:01pm
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My best one ever has that appearance but my second best one did not. I have owned a bunch of these. I don't think it's altogether reliable. |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 5:16pm
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Wouldn't hurt to get it as it's only $10 more expensive :P |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 7:06pm
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Yes, for just 10 bucks more I would personally go for the fish scale. |
Posted By: mhnh007
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 7:12pm
| One thing I found is that the one that has the fish scale is impossible to get splinter. |
Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 7:21pm
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I would not bother... chances are most of us could not feel the difference, and even if we could, how do we know which one we'd like better? We've had discussions here on other ariations between blades already, and we know that there are many other variables that give the blade different properties apart from appearance differences in the outer ply, so I would not pay extra for something that someone claims is 'better'. ------------- Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=page&id=42" rel="nofollow - Tenergy Alternatives | http://tabletennis-reviews.com" rel="nofollow - My TT Articles |
Posted By: proSpin
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 10:31pm
 my stand is fishscale only if u like it. ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52684&KW=kenet&PID=649009&title=feedback-prospin#649009" rel="nofollow - My Feedbacks |
Posted By: asifgunz
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 10:37pm
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Just get a sanwei king of blue arylate carbon nd call it a day. You will be glad that you bought it. -------------  "I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
Posted By: MLfan
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 11:05pm
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lol fish scale is probably better, but I don't think anybody on this forum can feel the difference haha... I'd still say go for it though, simply because it's only 10 dollars more...
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Posted By: cgswss
Date Posted: 07/04/2015 at 11:54pm
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Th "fish scale" is the product of Quarter sawn wood. That means that if you were to look at the end grain, the grain would be perpendicular to the surface. Quarter sawn wood normally won't warp or cup. True "quarter sawn" wood would be cut from a tree like spokes from a wheel. That would waste a amount of wood. SO the way it is cut in the real world is you cut the tree into 4 quarters (so you have 4 pie shape pieces if you look at the end of the tree. How one would saw a board off one flat, then turn the log and saw a board off the the other flat.. You keep switching back an forth from one flat then the other. The first board cut from each "quarter" (flat) is the best and widest boards. In other other words you get 8 prine quarter sawn boards out of a tree. These boards will also be a hardest and most dense wood from that log. In addition, they will normally quarter saw the thickest part of the log, because there is so much "loss" to narrow wood when quarter sawing a long. The base of a tree is the most dense wood in the tree. So those quarter sawn boards are the most dense in the whole tree! You actually don't have to go to the trouble of quarter sawing a log to get quarter sawn wood. If you are flat sawing wood, when you get close to the center line of the tree you are getting quarter sawn wood (on each side of center) All that said, I believe the big paddle making companies use quarter sawn wood in their more expensive blades. Most outer plys are made from quarter sawn wood. All that said, remember that fish scale is only the outer ply. Thats about 1/40 of an inch! ------------- Ratt "ghost" (OS kiri, balsa, kiri) innova UL/ Tibhar Grass D.tecs Ratt "mouse" (mahogany, 3- kiri, mahogany) T05/ giant dragon talon Tibhar Furious/ juic 999/ Tibhar Grass D.Tecs Ross Leidy custom |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 6:21am
I can definitely feel the difference between my best two Viscarias and the other four that I currently have (and I have owned a lot of others over the years, having played mostly with Viscaria for about ten years now, including two incredible ones that were stolen). There is a lot that goes into any blade, and the question is how much does the orientation of the grain on the top ply matter to what you get? Or in other words, is the fish scale top ply the main reason why one blade feels better than another? I do not think it it is the only thing that matters (obviously weight matters a lot), but I think it might be part of what makes some blades special. The problem is that even though I have owned a lot of Viscarias, my own personal sample size is not big enough to say how important the outer ply orientation is. Maybe Dean would know more, he seems to own 90% of the vintage Viscarias on the planet.  Anyway I would pay 10 bucks extra to get one like that. I think it might be worth the risk. By the way, I am glad some of the other posters explained what causes some blades to look like that. One other thing. I have never owned a bad Viscaria. The question I am talking about is how good? It is like comparing different years of a Gevrey Chambertin (a very famous Burgundy wine). IMHO, there is never a bad one. Just great ones and really good ones. |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 7:21am
Baal what are the weights of your best and second best Viscarias??? Are they in flared handle? |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 7:27am
Baal thanks for sharing your experiences in detail and it's a shame your stuff keeps getting stolen, any chance someone is keeping an eye out for your goodies  From where do you order your Viscarias and what weights were your best ones??? |
Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 8:00am
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If fish scale Viscaria is the best, then ZJK and FZD would have it. ------------- There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market. Falco is not a booster |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 8:02am
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All this dogged questioning over a choice that will do no more than add 25 pts to your game at best. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 8:18am
I really need these 25 pts  |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 8:19am
Flared, both my current favorites are 91 g. All of the great ones I have owned have been between 88 and 92. Personally I don't like the new lighter ones as much. Actually, I only had blades stolen one time (my whole bag disappeared), but it had three absolutely fantastic blades in it. Traumatic. I spent a bunch of money trying to find replacements that were as good, finally succeeded. As to NL's comment, it is true, it is true that this is a really arcane discussion about minutiae and it is doubtful that in time I play any different with any of these particular blades, but people do have a preference. Musicians do the same thing. As for the comment that if fish scale blades were so good, then ZJK and others would use it etc. etc., I have never seen a picture of one of their blades without the rubber on it, so for all I know that is that they use. |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 8:23am
Took the words right out of my mouth :) Where did you purchase your best Viscarias from Baal? I'm planning to order it from TTNP, are they reliable in terms of quality and delivery times? |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 8:26am
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Everyone has a preference. Whether it is arrived at by obsessing over things that hardly matter as opposed to falling in love with something for tacit reasons is the issue at hand. In the end, OP will love the blade even though it is clearly not what suits his game. Anyone who spends so much time buying a blade has no time to do the real work of playing good table tennis. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 8:39am
No disrespect but since you are one of the most active forum members here should I assume the same for you? And according to you which blade would suit my style NL? |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 9:18am
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Well, you haven't posted any video of your play so I can't tell how you play or what would suit you. And I spend time posting about table tennis, not buying a blade. Big difference. That said, I have to cut back some time. The kids are going hungry and wifey is not happy... ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 9:24am
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My current best one is a black tag I bought on the for sale section here. My second best one (currently) I got in a trade with a clubmate (he and I like these blades but I prefer mine a bit slower than his). The two great ones I had that were stolen were bought from Megaspin and just randomly happened to be awesome. I have bought the various blades from various places and there is no way you can tell if you will get a great one or not without playing with it first. That is not an option unless you buy one used from a clubmate (or if you are a top professional). Best you can do is specify a weight, which was easier when they were not so popular (before ZJK). Now they tend to be back-ordered a lot, so it is harder to get heavier ones. I don't see a problem with someone trying to maximize their chances of getting a blade they will like. But in this case it is pretty hard to systematically guarantee that you will get the best possible example of the model and in any case, they are all pretty damned good, so don't sweat it too much. Like I said, though, I would pay 10 bucks extra for the fish scale, skip a meal if money is tight. |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 9:27am
Then what did you mean by this, seemed like you had a better suggestion or knew my game style from the OP. Yes you go ahead and spend time with your kids, better than posting here for sure  |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 9:30am
Thanks man, only TTNP seems to have the fish scale one, so I'll send them an email and see if they are responsive to get an idea of their reliability as I've only ever ordered from TT11 and they are great! |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 9:32am
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TTNPP may make you wait. Not sure how responsive they are to this kind of thing*. Good luck. * I also should make it clear that I am basing this on some threads here over the years, not on personal experience. Some people get great results with them. |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 9:37am
Yes I have read many such threads, especially a recent one in which NL and quite a few were satisfied as their orders were on time, but a few had bad experiences as well. Thus my enquiry :P They maybe slow at replying to emails or not reply at all, but I hope they send the products out quickly. What's your take on MegaSpin? |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 10:08am
People who spend a lot of time obsessing over these things on the internet can't/don't play. That's my experience. It's very different from testing equipment or changing equipment. Asking questions on the internet about equipment is something a good player would not obsessively do. That makes it likely that a blade like the Viscaria will help your game (it may not hurt it either, but that is another story). ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 10:25am
I just like to make an informed decision before spending $100+ on a blade, maybe you are too rich but not me. Plus it's always better to get feedback from our fellow players, that's what this forum is all about. Also I don't understand why you spend most of your time on these forums when you are clearly lecturing others to PLAY instead of spending time here. Anyways, not going to get in a useless argument, if you can't stay on topic please refrain from posting. |
Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 10:26am
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I'd rather pay 10 bucks more to buy a 5grs heavier Viscaria (~97gr)than a scaly koto outer one. But I'll pay 100 bucks more to buy a yellowish to amber grain koto Viscaria with many "termite bites" on its face. The fish scale is nothing to compare to that koto outer. ------------- There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market. Falco is not a booster |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 10:40am
All of my experiences with MegaSpin have been perfect. Once a blade got broken in transit and they replaced it for me no questions asked, telling me that they should have packed it better. |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 11:00am
I spend time on these forums because I love table tennis. I love watching it, playing it, coaching it and talking about it. And I am on topic. I am telling you that this level of time investment into table tennis equipment is not rewarded if you aren't actually testing it. The amount of standardization that goes into making TT equipment is relatively poor and almost no two blades are guaranteed to play the same unless you are ordering from a specialist manufacturer who uses the same wood to make the same blade twice on your request (and even that has limitations given the nature of wood). If the goal of all this is to be happy with your purchase, it is probably going to work if you don't confuse happiness with performance. Unless you play with a blade, you have no idea how it will play. If you have no one to borrow a Viscaria from, the best thing going for you is that it has decent resale value. But if you want to play good table tennis, you can play good table tennis with a blade half that price like the Stratus Powerwood or the Peterpan without losing any sleep. So if money is really a concern, which I doubt it is other than for rhetorical purposes, you should know that most people can play almost as well if not better with something far cheaper than what they currently use. You just have to spend time adapting to it. Ultimately, its a bad idea to buy something that you have never played with unless you have a plan B for when you don't like it. I actually found the Viscaria way too fast for what I like to do and I dislike the fact that you need to pay an arm and a leg to get the square handles I prefer (though there is the ZJK ALC if that was my main concern). But in any case, you are doing the right thing. Just in the wrong sport. In this sport, there is nothing like a test drive and even that is riskier than in other better standardized sports. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: Ray
Date Posted: 07/05/2015 at 11:02am
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Forget Megaspin, unless you're in the USA. Shipping overseas has been ridiculously expensive, 53usd for one Viscaria!? ------------- Life is too short for defensive play. https://twitter.com/spinnier_com" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/spinnier_com https://fb.me/spinnier" rel="nofollow - fb.me/spinnier |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/31/2015 at 9:19pm
Since I made a couple of posts about TTNPP and issues they had in the past, I should in all fairness mention that I have ordered some NP40+ balls from them recently, got an email acknowledging the order immediately, and received the balls about 9 days later (today) with no problems at all. Based on this, I would use them again. This has nothing to do with a fish scaled Viscara, but this is the thread where I disparaged TTNPP, so this seemed to be the right place to post this. I also had a great recent experience with Megaspin in which an item was damaged in shipping (a box of balls actually) and they replaced it. |
Posted By: siestakey
Date Posted: 08/01/2015 at 1:37pm
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Hi , TTnPP have really come on strong in the last 18 months or so , never had a problem , shipping is better than ever . Just ordered a fish scale myself ! ------------- Siesta Key W968 Omega Tour 7 i |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 08/01/2015 at 4:48pm
What's the usual delivery time to UK? And did you contact TTnPP about the blade weight and stuff before ordering or did you just rely on their website description for the order? The thing which I didn't like about TTnPP is that I sent them a few emails regarding the blade weight and never received a reply, it's been a month now. So I ordered from somewhere else, who actually replied to me and kept me updated. |
Posted By: siestakey
Date Posted: 08/02/2015 at 4:32am
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Delivery is 7-10 days but Viscaria I get from the USA and pick the heaviest , usually 86-89 . Or try Saletabletennis . Good luck. ------------- Siesta Key W968 Omega Tour 7 i |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 08/02/2015 at 5:52am
From where did you order the fish scaled viscaria? I thought you ordered from TTnPP  |
Posted By: siestakey
Date Posted: 08/02/2015 at 7:05am
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Yes , fish from TTnpp , normal from the Usa . ------------- Siesta Key W968 Omega Tour 7 i |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 08/02/2015 at 7:19am
Well let me know about the weight and playing characteristics when you get them :P |
Posted By: siestakey
Date Posted: 08/02/2015 at 1:33pm
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Will do ! ------------- Siesta Key W968 Omega Tour 7 i |