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Penhold technique Xu Xin 240/120fps slow motion)

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Printed Date: 01/21/2018 at 3:26am


Topic: Penhold technique Xu Xin 240/120fps slow motion)
Posted By: and-
Subject: Penhold technique Xu Xin 240/120fps slow motion)
Date Posted: 12/18/2016 at 2:47pm
Hi guys.

I shot several short videos at Swedish Open 2015. What makes all of them slightly special is the fact that they were shot at 120fps or even 240fps in Full HD. This makes it easy to analyze various techniques.

This time I put together a short video with various technical elements performed by Xu Xin. You can see serves, FH and BH loops, FH flip, short return with a cool "fake overspin" movement, and, most importantly, his incredible footwork.Shocked

The music in the video was originally composed for a table tennis tournament in China. I hope you'll find the video useful or, at least, you will like it. Smile







Replies:
Posted By: suds79
Date Posted: 12/18/2016 at 4:17pm
pretty awesome. nice work.

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Lefty Penholder.
Check out my blog at
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Posted By: fatt
Date Posted: 12/18/2016 at 4:52pm
great stuff; totally mesmerizing; thanks.

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Posted By: dmoney
Date Posted: 12/18/2016 at 8:42pm
Thank you! At times the penholders get forgotten about sometimes. It's no wonder he has so much power, he starts his forward swing from so far back. I'll be watching this very closely.  

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Thanks!


Posted By: and-
Date Posted: 12/19/2016 at 7:47pm
suds79, fatt, dmoney
Thank you guys!

dmoney
I agree, the back swing is huge. Also, he manages to perform a large amplitude forehand loop even when attacking an incoming topspin - even standing close to the table!


Posted By: qpskfec
Date Posted: 12/19/2016 at 10:07pm
Very nice video.

It also shows how XX can serve legal and borderline legal/illegal on demand.

Serve at 2:11, high toss, looks pretty legal.

Serve at 2:39, ball tossed to the side and backwards, XX has his body turned much more and the contact point is much further back from his head. Head/body hiding contact or very close.

I did a screen grab of both and put them side by side, the difference is very obvious.


Posted By: mickd
Date Posted: 12/19/2016 at 11:10pm
Very good video. Thanks so much for putting it together for us.

By the way, what did you use to record it?


Posted By: el luchador
Date Posted: 12/20/2016 at 10:52am
Amazing video. Thanks a bunch. Im going to watch this one several times.

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Do or do not, there is no try- Yoda


Posted By: and-
Date Posted: 12/21/2016 at 1:20pm
qpskfec, mickd, el luchador
Thank you guys. Really, very nice to see that my work is appreciated.

qpskfec
I think that most players break the serve rules. For example, the rules say that once the ball has been projected upwards, no part of the body or clothing should cover it from the receiver. However, if the server is leaning forward during a forehand serve, the ball would go behind his/her head. It does not always cause difficulties in receiving but, formally, the rule is broken. Another example: one of the rules says that as soon as the ball has been projected upwards, the free arm should be removed from the space between the ball and the net. First of all, the moment, when the ball has been projected upwards, is not defined in the rules. Is it the highest point of the toss? Secondly, the space between the ball and the net is defined for the net infinitely extended up and down. Essentially it means, that the space is defined by two vertical walls going through the net posts and crossing at the ball. There are really many players who do not move the free arm out of this space soon enough or at all. Again, if the free arm does not cover the ball, it's not a problem for the receiver but, formally, the rule is broken. I think that these rules are really badly written for the purpose, and impossible to control from the umpires' seats.

mickd
I used Sony RX100 IV. When shooting at 240fps, it has 2sec limit. IT's good enough for capturing the technique of an element, unless it's a high toss serve LOL.


Posted By: TTslurp
Date Posted: 12/21/2016 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by and- and- wrote:

suds79, fatt, dmoney
Thank you guys!

dmoney
I agree, the back swing is huge. Also, he manages to perform a large amplitude forehand loop even when attacking an incoming topspin - even standing close to the table!

I can hardly see any substantial forehand wrist motion - which should be one of the main advantages with penhold. I wonder if his playing style (huge backswing and large playing space behind the table) would have been the same if he had chosen skakehand? And in that case, would he have been even better?  


Posted By: sandiway
Date Posted: 12/21/2016 at 10:04pm
It is a great and smooth slow-mo video; thank you for sharing. What kind of camera do you use that can shoot 240fps full HD?

I wish you can let the ball linger a bit longer on the serves so we can see exactly how much spin there is after it contacts Karlsson's paddle.




Posted By: and-
Date Posted: 12/27/2016 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by TTslurp TTslurp wrote:

I can hardly see any substantial forehand wrist motion - which should be one of the main advantages with penhold. I wonder if his playing style (huge backswing and large playing space behind the table) would have been the same if he had chosen skakehand? And in that case, would he have been even better?  
I think that a large amplitude wrist motion when playing a large amplitude forehand is actually not optimal. Ideally, the movement should be there but it should be barely noticeable even in slow motion. Larger wrist movements IMO were typical for old style penholders who played with short pimples. Also, wrist movement can compensate when the player is not in position - then the wrist movement contributes to the power of a stroke because the body/hips/legs cannot contribute properly. When playing a large amplitude forehand loop with proper technique the wrist movement should be subtle IMO.


Posted By: and-
Date Posted: 12/27/2016 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by sandiway sandiway wrote:

It is a great and smooth slow-mo video; thank you for sharing. What kind of camera do you use that can shoot 240fps full HD?
Thanks! I used Sony RX100IV.

Originally posted by sandiway sandiway wrote:

I wish you can let the ball linger a bit longer on the serves so we can see exactly how much spin there is after it contacts Karlsson's paddle.
That would have been another video. :) The point of this one was to show what Xu Xin is able to do. Nevertheless, thanks for drawing my attention to this. I just noticed how small amplitude Karlsson is using when he is serving. I guess this makes it difficult for the receiver to see the spin, but it would be interesting to see how much spin he actually manages to impart with so short movement. I'll try to take a look sometime. Thank you.


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 12/27/2016 at 1:44pm
That was an amazing video.  Will you be posting any other videos? I'm think FZD and Ovtcharov would both be great to watch.  Or did you just focus on XX?

You'll have to visit more pro tournaments in the future.  Official MYTT video correspondent. Wink


Posted By: and-
Date Posted: 12/28/2016 at 1:32pm
benfb
Thank you very much for your kind words. :) I do have quite a few similar videos with Fan Zhendong. I'm planning to compose a new music piece and make a similar video - hopefully similarly amazing video. Wink

I'd love to travel to more tournaments, but, being an unofficial correspondent, I may not get a good angle for shooting video. Swedish Open is very good in this respect: players are close to the audience, and there are many available seats.


Posted By: sandiway
Date Posted: 12/29/2016 at 9:40pm
Originally posted by and- and- wrote:

Originally posted by sandiway sandiway wrote:

It is a great and smooth slow-mo video; thank you for sharing. What kind of camera do you use that can shoot 240fps full HD?
Thanks! I used Sony RX100IV.
Thanks, I looked that camera up on dpreview. It is small, but has a 1" sensor with quite amazing specs. I'm surprised it doesn't overheat when recording video.

It's the first I've heard mentioned with 1080p at 240fps. But actually, 1080p it can do 120fps - until 29 mins 59 secs ?, which is great. But at 240fps (and beyond), it is limited to 2 or 4 secs max at a lower than full HD resolution, but the camera scales it up to 1080p. Still, it's amazing.

EDIT: I've noticed Sony releases a new RX100 version every year, so it's up to RX100V now, which I haven't read about yet...


Posted By: and-
Date Posted: 12/31/2016 at 10:17pm
sandiway
Unfortunately, it does overheat when recording Full HD video at 120fps: you can shoot for ~5-7min. At 60fps it's manageable but still may overheat. Lifting the screen on the back of the camera helps somewhat.

At 120fps it seems to read out the entire sensor, because sharpness-wise the image looks amazing. At 240fps it skips lines, so there are some image artifacts related to that. Also, it doesn't quite manage to read all 1080 lines - it's something like 1020, I think, resized to the standard 1920x1080 full hd frame. Still, close enough to Full HD with really useful framerate for table tennis.

At higher framerates (480fps and 960fps) even more lines are being skipped. Although, the video is still upscaled internally to the standard full hd frame, such a video no longer has the "nearly full hd" quality and clarity. Still very fun to use though. :)

In the next generation of the camera (Sony RX100 V) the maximum recording time is increased from 2 seconds to 4 seconds. Very helpful!


Posted By: and-
Date Posted: 12/31/2016 at 10:22pm
Originally posted by sandiway sandiway wrote:

I wish you can let the ball linger a bit longer on the serves so we can see exactly how much spin there is after it contacts Karlsson's paddle.

Originally posted by and- and- wrote:

I just noticed how small amplitude Karlsson is using when he is serving. I guess this makes it difficult for the receiver to see the spin, but it would be interesting to see how much spin he actually manages to impart with so short movement.

Thinking about it... Maybe, so short movement before touching the ball and fast large movements after the contact is the way to disguise a no spin serve.


Posted By: Johnny2WL
Date Posted: 01/01/2017 at 10:44am
Very nice. FZD serves at the end, bonus!


Posted By: and-
Date Posted: 01/04/2017 at 1:54am
Thanks. I think I'll make a similar video with Fan Zhendong too. I have the footage in both 120fps and 240fps.



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