if boosting is illegal, why...
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Topic: if boosting is illegal, why...
Posted By: el luchador
Subject: if boosting is illegal, why...
Date Posted: 01/21/2017 at 9:48pm
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if boosting is illegal but a lot of people boost, why not just speed glue? they are both illegal but people choose to boost instead of speed glue. Im just curious as to why ------------- Do or do not, there is no try- Yoda |
Replies:
Posted By: rocketman222
Date Posted: 01/21/2017 at 9:59pm
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Cause they can't detect boosting using the machines they have, so why speed glue and get caught? ------------- http://www.bladesbycharlie.com/models/hinokighost" rel="nofollow - BBC Hinoki Ghost http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74126&title=feedback-rocketman222" rel="nofollow - My Feedback |
Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 01/21/2017 at 10:02pm
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Good question - I did not play in speed glue era, but I was under impression it was pretty obvious that someone used speed glue (sound?), so if you were to do it today, it would be transparent that you are cheating. With boosting there is this grey area of uncertainty and plausible deniability. ------------- USATT: ~1810 Butterfly Defense Alpha ST - H3 Neo - Cloud&Fog OX |
Posted By: el luchador
Date Posted: 01/21/2017 at 10:20pm
at the enthusiast level, ie 1-3 star tournaments, how many of them have these machines? I have never seen one
I think they have to test with a machine and I dont believe a lot of tournaments have those machines. I actually believe that some people still speed glue. they just dont talk about it here :) ------------- Do or do not, there is no try- Yoda |
rocketman222 wrote:Posted By: JohnnyChop
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 12:09am
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You only have to boost every month You have to speed glue every couple of hours... Plus boosters are more commercially availeble ------------- 729 Battle 2 Yasaka Goibao 5 Nittaku Fastarc G1 Nittaku Fastarc G1 Butterfly Cypress Max |
Posted By: LOG1C1AN
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 12:20am
There is one player at my club that is quite open about using speed glue. He glues up right in front of everyone right before he plays. Sometimes he re-glues between matches. I get high from the fumes just walking by him while he's gluing.  |
Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 1:03am
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Blocking and looping are usually tell tell signs of regluing. ------------- Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
Posted By: el luchador
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 1:57am
Im not familiar with a lot of speed gluers. what do blocks and loops look like when rubber is speed glued? thanks ------------- Do or do not, there is no try- Yoda |
Posted By: MVCSGN
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 3:08am
Speed glue used convenient, quickly, every where, every time
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Posted By: ronakvyas86
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 5:01am
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So players can play in tournaments with boosted rubbers and get away with it? ------------- Yasaka Goiabao 5 CPEN, Donic Baracuda MAX FH & RPB |
Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 5:51am
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Both speed gluing and boosting are not needed to play well just say no to this performance enhancing stuff and use your arm ------------- Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 9:59am
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I am old enough to have played my first tournaments BEFORE people speed glued commonly, when it was still a carefully guarded Hungarian secret. So maybe you want to see for yourself? That is really the best way to get answers to your questions. Where to get it? This stuff will behave like a strong speed glue, it is what we used to use if we ran out: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/XTS0/14004/N0182.oap" rel="nofollow - http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/XTS0/14004/N0182.oap There are other similar products, all basically the same thing, you can get them at any auto parts store, sometimes at places like Walmart. You ask for vulcanizing glue (or search for it on Amazon, where I know they sell different brands that are all essentially the same and that all will work). This is the stuff the Hungarians originally discovered, before companies started marketing products specifically for TT. Haifu still sells some stuff with VOC solvents in it that has a mild effect. It is terrible. Don't bother with it. You want to see the real thing? Use a vulcanizing glue like the one I described above. How to use it. One coat on your blade, one (or at most two) coats on your rubber, which will dome like crazy. Let dry (5-10 min at most), attach. You need to do it each time you play. Do it in a very well ventilated place (ideally outdoors) because it stinks and the fumes can't be good for you unless you like huffing glue. Most of the products, the brush is built into the lid on the can. So here are reasons why people don't use it generally, plus a few other tidbits. (1) Speed glue is clearly and obviously against the rules with no gray area whatsoever, and most people want to play legally. Some people have argued that booster could be construed as legal (after all, you are only replenishing in some cases what the factory already put on the sponge). There are lots of threads on that and I won't comment on that here. (2) At larger tournaments, the machines will detect speed glue and they usually won't detect booster. Therefore, in practice most boosters might as well be legal because they can't be detected. They don't smell much and they aren't bad for your health. (Player safety was the reasonable reason ITTF originally gave for banning speed glue. When they tried to extend that argument to boosters like baby oil they became unreasonable and just looked stupid, which was not an infrequent look for Adham Sharara). Then they tried to pretend that they had never argued against boosters for health reasons, but in fact they did. Obviously, the real reason has been an ongoing effort to slow down (and dumb down) the sport. It's the same reason when they made the decision to move the ball from celluloid to plastic (they had a reasonable justification for that), they also increased the size slightly (obviously to reduce speed and spin). But I digress. (3) Speed glue stinks, it is messy, and you have to use it each time you play. A real pain to use every time you play. I don't miss that part at all. That is true even if you are not playing in tournaments. And it can't be good for you. (4) And this is probably a big one, a lot of modern rubbers are simply not designed to be used with speed glue, and it is not clear to me what it might do to them. My guess is that it will badly shorten their life and at the least make them useless thereafter unless you continually re-glue them forever thereafter. I also strongly suspect that large pored rubbers won't react well. It is completely different from the kinds of sponges that worked well with speed glue back in the day. So if you want to try it just to see what it is like, don't use any rubber you really care about using again later. Or use it on something cheap. It might make ridiculously cheap thick Chinese rubbers quite useable. But you can have bad glue days, when your glue job just didn't work right. It can be a source of inconsistency. With each use of glue, the rubbers will get stretched a little more. Periodically you have to trim down the ever growing overhangs. What you can expect and other tidbits. Speed-glued rubber, especially on softer sponges, has a marked thwack sound when the ball hits. Some post-glue rubbers have aimed to emulate that (Calibra Sound). Even if they get the sound, they don't get the feel. It is called speed glue but I always felt like the main effect was more spin. It is hard to describe the effect really, you need to feel it to appreciate it. It has been a really long time since I used it. Not since 2008 to be precise. So it is hard to write more from memory. The reality is that nothing today feels like speed glued rubber. Smackman is right that you don't need it or booster to play well, but make no mistake, there is a reason why we did it. By the way, the original use of the FX designation by Btfly and cloners was for rubbers with sponges designed to work especially well with speed glue. FX means "effects", get it? You got more doming, more speed and spin in response to glue with an FX rubber--if you could control it. Now it just refers to a softer sponge (which is all it really was to begin with). |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 12:20pm
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Baal Thanks for the great explanation. |
Posted By: el luchador
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 1:04pm
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@baal, thanks for a great detailed post. that was a good read. ------------- Do or do not, there is no try- Yoda |
Posted By: chongqinghotpot
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 1:23pm
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Are there actually data supporting if ITTF has achieved its goal of slowing down the game with so many changes on the equipments? It seems to me the athletes have adapted well now and the game is as fast as it used to be at the top level, at least visually. ------------- USATT rating 2200 05Vis64 |
Posted By: in2spin
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 2:29pm
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Before I switched to commercial table tennis speed glue, I used a vulcanizing fluid called "Rema Tip Top". Bought it at an auto parts wholesaler by the quart for like $16 at the time. The fumes from that would most definitely knock your head back with a whiff. But there were all the build up and stripping procedures, which were a pain that players learned to live with. For a while used lighter fluid and or the Rema Tip Top thinner to bring the effect back to life. :) |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 2:41pm
ITTF seems unsatisfied so that is why balls are bigger and some of them advocate thinner sponge. Players are stronger and quicker so it wont matter. Meanwhile we pay more for balls rubber and blades. I want a moratorium on rule changes for awhile. By the way, the last post reminded me that adding lighter fluid to vulcanizing glue (about 1:20 ratio) increased the effect -- for maniacs who needed even more. That was popular here for awhile. People came up with all kinds of nasty concoctions, that was one I actually remember. |
Posted By: chongqinghotpot
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 5:20pm
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I would not want any changes on the rules regarding equipments either. For that reason, I hope Seive will be the next president. ------------- USATT rating 2200 05Vis64 |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 6:14pm
My thoughts exactly. |
Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 9:58pm
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Deleted ------------- Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/22/2017 at 10:44pm
| By the way, I really got tired of using speed glue by the time they banned it. I also hated the smell which could get really bad when a bunch of people were gluing up at the beginning of the night. An OSHA violation for sure if was happening where I work. So I was actually not at all unhappy when they banned it. I wish rubber had not doubled in price shortly after that, and I don't see why plastic balls had to be larger and worse and more than double the price. And the booster ban is just dumb. But the speed glue ban was not unreasonable. |
Posted By: garwor
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 4:43am
Yes, nobody watches tt anymore because all players play same way, and it become physical sport. Once with faster balls you could play your strokes with wrist and hand ( not mostly with legs like today), and it produced various playing styles, which is what spectators liked, I think. Also, Saive looks like ittf clown, with his fun matches. I don't think he will go against Sharara's wishes. Boosting is illegal and players use it, also hidden services are illegal and players still use it. ------------- http://stonitenis.rs/equipmentreviews" rel="nofollow - Equipment database Yinhe MC-2 FL fh: Xiom Vega pro bh: Xiom Vega pro Boycott Marcos Freitas for hidden services! |
Posted By: garwor
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 4:49am
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I used speed glue years ago. Although I was weak player then, I remember it gives some kind of punch/kick/whatever, which sends ball more forward and allows easier playing. ------------- http://stonitenis.rs/equipmentreviews" rel="nofollow - Equipment database Yinhe MC-2 FL fh: Xiom Vega pro bh: Xiom Vega pro Boycott Marcos Freitas for hidden services! |
Posted By: mog1111
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 5:34am
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Baal, really should the guy that does not like fake blades or clone blades really be encouraging the use of speed glue? are you kettle or pot? LOL, ha ha Mog1111 ------------- Yasaka Ma Lin Carbon FH: Tenergy 05fx BH: Spinlord Keiler |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 6:09am
| Probably not! |
Posted By: mog1111
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 6:17am
 ------------- Yasaka Ma Lin Carbon FH: Tenergy 05fx BH: Spinlord Keiler |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 9:30am
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"Boosting is illegal and players use it, also hidden services are illegal and players still use it. " Not when the rubbers are factory boosted. And not everyone is playing at official tournaments. Also, most PPL I know have more than one blade, which does not preclude them from having one blade that is legal while experimenting with the other blades. Also I don't see where Baal is actually encouraging the use of speed glue. He only gave a detailed explanation. And there's the one little fact that bossting/speed gluing does not guarantee you will win your games. It is mostly about how it feels. I like to think of it as analogous to whether you like your hot dogs with or without ketchup. FdT
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Posted By: mog1111
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 10:04am
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I was just teasing Baal, he knew what I meant and he was ok with it. ------------- Yasaka Ma Lin Carbon FH: Tenergy 05fx BH: Spinlord Keiler |
Posted By: el luchador
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 11:18am
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question for all does speed glue (or booster)irreversilbly soften the sponge? or will it go back to its original hardness when the effect wears off? thanks ------------- Do or do not, there is no try- Yoda |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 12:28pm
I want to know if boosted rubber allow more spin and speed than glue era players and how much is the difference? 20% faster .any scientific data? |
Posted By: BeaverMD
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 12:56pm
Easy, because boosting is what pros do and amateurs want to do what the pros are doing. If Ma Long and Timo were putting bull semen on their rackets, amateurs will do it too. Table tennis players are sheep.
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Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 1:16pm
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"Easy, because boosting is what pros do and amateurs want to do what the pros are doing. If Ma Long and Timo were putting bull semen on their rackets, amateurs will do it too. Table tennis players are sheep." I imagine this response is more of an example of satire, in which case its cool and funny, but for the sake of open discussion, this is a classic example of the "Hasty Generalization" Fallacy. Just sayin'... FdT
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Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 4:58pm
I vaguely remember that the members of the Texas Wesleyan University tt team back in the '90s tryed bull semen mixed with d-limonene and Bosco Milk Amplifier. This gave a pretty good speed glue effect, but getting a bull to cooperate was a real bitch. ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 5:04pm
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"I vaguely remember that the members of the Texas Wesleyan University tt team back in the '90s tryed bull semen mixed with d-limonene and Bosco Milk Amplifier. This gave a pretty good speed glue effect, but getting a bull to cooperate was a real bitch. " Pretty sure if Liu Gouliang says he wants the semen of Brama bull , or Bald Eagle, Beluga whale or whatever, for table tennis purposes, nothing in the universe will stop it from happening!! FdT
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Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 6:24pm
Very much ok. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 6:30pm
I would be surprised if someone doesn't have data somewhere on this. But I doubt it is easily found or maybe not in English. If it is there, zeio will post it, I suspect. I don't think boosted rubbers now are faster than speed glued Bryce Speed FX! Or necessarily spinnier either. It has been almost a decade, though, so it could be that all of us who are used to Tenergy and stuff might find speedglue a bit hard to use now, or at least not as comfortable as we all remember. I know that all of the really good players I know were complaining constantly from about 2008-2010 about missing their old stuff. |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 9:42pm
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As a former EJ and speed gluer from 1991-1997 (we're talkin' Brendling balsa walnut/mahogany/koto/ash/limba combinations plastered with Mark V GPS, Mark V AD, Schildkrot V-Max, Bufferfly Tackifire, Donic Vario Soft, Donic Supersonic 40 marinated in Tip-Top, Vulcofux, Spinny Top and Butterfly Unfair Chack) I fell somewhat qualified to write about my experiences with speed gluing and its deleterious effects upon this noble sport of ours. First of all, if you were a chronic habitual speed gluer, this stuff will definitely kill you sooner or later. No kidding. I'm serious. Speed glue was never intended for children, pregnant women, or even adults. Frankly, I'm surprised I survived. Many didn't. In 1992 alone, speed glue did in more table tennis players than fires, floods, pestilence, famine, automobile accidents, gun violence and skateboarding combined. Speed gluing will also eff up your short game. Let's say your opponent breaks off a decent short right to left sidespin/underspin serve. He's a speed gluer just like you are. You think no problem, I'll just continue his spin with a right/left backhand short push. Squisho! Right into the net. Now it's your turn. You break off a respectable right/left sidespin/underspin serve which you hope will be a two-bouncer. It wasn't. Opponent steps around his backhand and gloops a forehand loop right into your backhand. What to do? No time to think. So you attempt to block it back. Kazowie! Your ball heads straight for the Kuiper asteroid belt. Need I mention that speed gluing dumbed down the game? It reduced tt to a hide your serve, kill the return, pause while your opponent goes back to the barrier to pick up the ball. Defense? Fuhgeddaboutit. Speed gluing led to the extinction of the 38 mm. Nittaku Japan 3-star ball, the most perfect spheroid the mind of humankind had yet to devise. It led to the 40 mm. ball, then the 40+ mm. ball, equipment madness and extortionate prices. As for the practice of boosting, I cannot personally comment on its effects, as boosting came in after I had to leave competitive table tennis due to injury, essential tremor, and going nuts for a year (2006). Boosting probably won't kill you. And I daresay it's at least as effective as bull semen, d-limonene, and Bosco Milk Amplifier.
------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: el luchador
Date Posted: 01/23/2017 at 10:40pm
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@berndt_mann Kazowie!!! ,I was almost laughing tears reading that post ------------- Do or do not, there is no try- Yoda |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 01/24/2017 at 9:33am
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" In 1992 alone, speed glue did in more table tennis players than fires, floods, pestilence, famine, automobile accidents, gun violence and skateboarding combined." Ok, in the interest of conversation, is there any documentation, link, article that has any info regarding players succumbing to the noxious gasses from speed glue? Just curious.....I mean, thats quite the claim there.... FdT
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Posted By: el luchador
Date Posted: 01/24/2017 at 10:18am
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Another question - this one may be hard to answer. If speed glue tenses up the sponge, and the sponge remains under tension even after all the VOCs have evaportated, wouldn't there still be some advantage to be found by speed gluing vs water based glues? ------------- Do or do not, there is no try- Yoda |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/24/2017 at 11:14am
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We need zeio. Haven't seen him in a awhile. He at one point found a bunch of old patents for speed glues that described the principle of how they worked, but I really don't remember the physical chemistry behind it and am not sufficiently curious to actually find them. In practical terms, the effect dissipated quickly, so you definitely need the VOCs to still be there. In effect, once the rubber stopped giving off fumes, your speed glue effect was mostly gone. Of course, everybody in the room was breathing those fumes. That meant re-gluing right before each time you played, which I really don't miss doing. In the earliest days, the glues contained halogenated hydrocarbon solvents -- really bad from a toxicological perspective. In the early 90s the companies changed their formulas to things that were probably not so nasty, but still, you were sniffing glue. |
Posted By: chongqinghotpot
Date Posted: 01/24/2017 at 11:23am
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I remember there were long lasting speed glued whose effects would last a couple of days. But I still hated them and felt I llost some matches because I did not get the quantity or timing of speed glue right even though I never complained it as excuses for my losses. ------------- USATT rating 2200 05Vis64 |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 01/24/2017 at 11:30am
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From what I have read and from limited experience, the sponge expands when the glue gets absorbed by the sponge, the sponge being attached to the rubber sheet exerts tension upon the rubber, the effect of this is the doming effect you see on pictures, once you glue the rubber onto the blade and the rubber is flat against the blade there is tension on the top sheet. But the effects goes away as the VOCs escape during the next few days. Leaving the top sheet stretched. I have experienced some rubbers shrinking after having being expanded and the top sheet loses its elasticity. There is a limit on how many times you can boost/speed glue a rubber. Once you reach this limit the rubber feels dead. Nothing will revive it, not even if the Pope comes from the Vatican to spray holy water on your rubber! FdT
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Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 01/24/2017 at 1:14pm
All those details are on the old table tennis forum on about.com. There was an USA maker of table tennis equipment who used give all the makers' background information regarding rubbers, blades and glues. I've forgotten his name. He was Iranian by ancestry, I think. ------------- Blade: Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/24/2017 at 2:18pm
For sure that's a big part of it, it is certainly how I always thought about it. However, I recall from old posts that there is quite a bit more to it than that. It related to how the pores in the sponge behave, and phase transitions of gas inside the pores when the ball hits that absorb energy and all sorts of stuff like that which really doesn't matter much now. Anyway, to my everlasting shame, I have provided people all the information they need to check out the effect for themselves, just for historical perspective or to satisfy their curiosity. |
Posted By: coffeeholic
Date Posted: 01/24/2017 at 2:37pm
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So I've seen pictures of both when the topsheet is on the outside of the dome, and the topsheet is on the inside. assuming it's the sponge expanding, and thus forcing the rubber to stretch, it makes sense that the sponge should be on the outside of the dome (e.g. whichever side is expanding more creates the greater surface area). so if a rubber is domed where the topsheet is on the outside, does that mean that the rubber has been treated in a way that it expands and not the sponge? ------------- Tibhar Samsonov Alpha | Yasaka Rakza 7 | Xiom OmegaIV Euro Rubbers don't offer control. YOU are the control! |
Posted By: Chairman Meow
Date Posted: 01/24/2017 at 3:20pm
Do you mean https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=19971002&DB=&locale=en_EP&CC=WO&NR=9735914A1&KC=A1&ND=1" rel="nofollow - this ? It's pretty easy to find, just search 'speed glue' on Wikipedia and check the footnotes/sources. ------------- -1 ply Cypress 11.5mm "The Castigator" -H3 Prov. Blue Sponge 2.2mm 41 deg. -H3 Prov. Orange Sponge 2.1mm 37 deg |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/24/2017 at 3:53pm
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That's why you're the chairman. |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 01/24/2017 at 4:04pm
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there's also this.... https://thoughtsontabletennis.wordpress.com/2015/03/09/introduction-to-table-tennis-chemistry/" rel="nofollow - https://thoughtsontabletennis.wordpress.com/2015/03/09/introduction-to-table-tennis-chemistry/ FdT
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Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/24/2017 at 6:47pm
With speed glues the sponge formed the outside of the dome. That is because it expands more than the topsheet |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 01/24/2017 at 8:02pm
It's a well known alternative fact, Jack.
------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 01/25/2017 at 9:04am
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"It's a well known alternative fact, Jack." I don't disbelieve your claim. I only asked for specific info, like, who, when, what, which supports your claim. I don't doubt the VOCs are noxious, I just don't know to what extent, and what the potential consequences are. FdT |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/25/2017 at 9:45am
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FdT, It's hard to say. A lot of toxicology is random, you are just lucky or unlucky if some poison you have been exposed to binds to your DNA in just the right way, etc. etc. etc. (More often, it is a metabolite of the poison, but this is a detail). The odds of something bad happening of course increase as the concentration of the poison increases, or if the duration or frequency of your exposure to the poison increases, and in populations of people, or in people in certain occupations, you can specify a risk. But whether that one particular speed glue exposure is going to give cancer to that one particular player, impossible to say. Same reason why once in a while smokers live to be 90. They got lucky. But make no mistake, smoking is bad for you. I don't personally know of anyone who passed out from speed glue fumes, i.e. acute toxicity, but I have to say, a few times back when my club was in a smaller and poorly ventilated space, I remember getting one hell of a headache when we are all using speed glue + lighter fluid at about 7 PM at the start of the evening. A few times I wondered WTF we were all doing and kind of asked myself, don't you know better? Like I said, I definitely don't miss this stuff. Some of the solvents in the later generations of speed glue are actually not all that bad from a toxicology point of view (like in the patent Chairman Meow found). The halogenated hydrocarbons that were used in the 80s, though, they were really bad. (I had to take a graduate course in toxicology back in about 1982, I can't say I remember a whole lot more than the basics). |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 01/25/2017 at 9:58am
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"I don't personally know of anyone who passed out from speed glue fumes, i.e. acute toxicity, but I have to say, a few times back when my club was in a smaller and poorly ventilated space, I remember getting one hell of a headache when we are all using speed glue + lighter fluid at about 7 PM at the start of the evening. A few times I wondered WTF we were all doing and kind of asked myself, don't you know better?" I hear ya. I remember watching an article about the practice of smelling paint and how those chemicals affected the brain. Scary shit!! I can imagine smelling fumes from vulcanizing glues can have similar effects on the brain. FdT
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Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 01/25/2017 at 4:29pm
Alternative facts are facts which come from an alternative point of view, unfamiliar to those who insist on conditions of evidence and logical soundness. I use them sarcastically while trying (successfully?) to be amusing; Kellyanne Conway, spokesperson for our newly elected President, uses them whenever she finds them to be convenient, which is just about all of the time. ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |